Guest guest Posted September 19, 2006 Report Share Posted September 19, 2006 In case anyone is still reading this thread -- In addition to what I wrote about lunar nodes and Varahamihira -- Western astrology has utilized lunar nodes (Rahu=noth, Ketu = south) for at least last several decades if not longer. Rahu and ketu are not simply mythological entities, though the rich allegories of mythologies do bring a lot of rich wisdom to jyotish, let me assure you all! Rahu and ketu may not be bodies, but real points that are created by paths of the lights! Lot has been written about those! Hopefully someone was studying and not reading selectively! Jyotish may lead us to spiritual realities, but this spaceship is launched from planet earth (geocentric reality) and thus it has been primarily rooted in worldly, earthly, householder, common man reality! The journey will hopefully lead us to realms that must one day be ours, but for most of us, we have still not managed to supersede the "escape velocity" that will get us beyond the reach of the worldly, earthly reality of commonplace gravity! I am surrounded by wise, all knowing, accomplished individuals and so I do not want this to turn this into yet another brick-bat session for whatever reason! As far as 'chemicals' are concerned, each human body I was told represents chemicals that cost about 67 cents. Maybe with inflation, they may represent a hundred rupees. So be it! The chemicals remain behind when we die, all of us eventually and for sure! How have we used those chemicals while we were alive and given the gift by the God of our choice -- to LIVE and express HIS or HER dream! Which is what I believe this creation and all of us puppets represent! RR , "panditarjun2004" <panditarjun2004 wrote: > > dear RRji > > let me throw more light on jyotish remedies. > > BPHS written by sage parashasa of vyasa lineage is a HINDU SAGE who > explained how the grahas are DIRECTLY CORRELATED TO VARIOUS GODS and > suggested various remedies of pleasing GODS AND DIETIES WHICH ARE > ALL HINDU. even the other samhitas of the north and the nadis of > the south are also written by the sages who all meditated for > hundreds and thousands of years and worshipped various gods and > goddesses under hinduism and all the remedies suggested by them have > direct link to hindu mythology of gods and goddesses where planets > and stars are not seen like by balls of mud and chemicals but like > living gods and demons. > > any person, be it a christian or a muslim, if he is believing, > practicing and preaching VEDIC ASTROLOGY AND VEDIC JYOTISH REMEDIES, > it implies that he too believes and accepts hindu mythology. > > some astrologers (not me) try to project themselves as people with > scientific background and say that they believe astronomy and not > astrology. i ask a direct query to all of them. if NASA has not > endorsed the existence of rahu and ketu as two separate planets, why > these scientific rationalist so called astrologers are believing, > practicing, preaching and selling the goods of these non existing > planets. > > so, only those persons who believe these planets as gods and demons, > they only can PRACTICE VEDIC ASTROLOGY. the westerners who do not > beleive in rahu and ketu have a different astrology based on > astronomy and they have all support and validation to do so because > they are not endorsing rahu and ketu. BUT ALL THOSE WHO ENDORSE AND > RECOMMEND REMEDIES FOR RAHU AND KETU MUST BE BELIEVERS OF HINDU > MYTHOLOGY. > > what is your opinion on rahu and ketu being part of only vedic > astrology WHICH IS 100% BASED ON HINDU MYTHOLOGY. > > with best wishes > pandit arjun > > , "crystal pages" > <jyotish_vani@> wrote: > > > > Arjun ji, > > > > I understand the points raised by you. I have rubbed many members > the > > wrong way in the past -- that is my prarabdha. > > > > When Kumar ji was banned, I was the first one to respond here > > publicly and so did others, and Tanvir reversed his decision on > very > > sane and rational grounds very OPENLY and transparently! > > > > I have had difficult conversations with Kumarji on this board, but > > the beauty in his soul was never lost upon me. Call me biased! > > > > I have not commented on the present 'drama' or MAYA if you want to > > call it! Because I do not feel that I can connect to it. > > > > Religious angle to astrology is like subtitles in a film! It may > make > > the film and theme and dialogue more understandable, but it does > not > > take over the original film! > > > > Astrology is pure, like an infant. It has no theme and language > and > > agenda! It is just supposed to bring instant love to the heart! > Who > > ever really understood the gurgling and cooing of an infant (even > the > > mother!), but who could ever resist picking it up? > > > > RR > > > > > > > > , "panditarjun2004" > > <panditarjun2004@> wrote: > > > > > > dear RRji > > > > > > in the net, the space is offered freely by and whosoever > has > > > created these groups have given a platform to likeminded people > to > > > come and share their views and opinions freely and also discuss > the > > > subject of astrology, remedies and learn it by asking questions > as > > > well as also give free readings, time permitting. tanvirji has > > been > > > most democratic by giving 100% automatic approval for all > members > > > which is his hallmark till date. however due to his > preoccupation > > > with his own life and having less time to answer queries in this > > > group, few members like us have made this group like our own > group > > > and have started giving our best contributions by sparing our > time, > > > money and energy. true ashutoshji is also a great member and > great > > > contributor like you and me. but i emphasised in several mails > > that > > > VEDIC JYOTISH OR ASTROLOGY IS INEXPLICABLY INTERTWINED WITH > HINDU > > > (NOT OTHER RELIGIONS) MYTHOLOGY AND HENCE A PERSON WHO DOES NOT > > > BELIEVE IN GOD, CANNOT HEAD THIS GROUP OF JYOTISH REMEDIES WHICH > > > BELIEVES IN GOD. Tanviji is a great astrologer and he beleives > in > > > god. > > > > > > you and i are the first two individuals who got the bad moody > > > expression of words by bhaskarji but both have seen the > potential > > > knowledge and contributions he could make to the group and have > > > accommodated him and he brought happiness and relief to several > > > querents. i advised him publicly as well as in private not to > let > > > his moods overtake his expressions and show maturity by writing > > > positive polished language which, unfortunately he could not not > > > improve upon and am sure he will improve as he got two LEARNING > > > EXPERIENCES by getting banned from the two largest astro groups > on > > > the web. > > > > > > one thing i can conclude firmly is that the way tanvirji is > > > expressing emphatically that ashutoshji is now the new moderator > > who > > > got 100% rights and powers to do any thing as ashutosh feels fit > > and > > > that tanvirji dont interfere even if ashutosh does things which > are > > > not to the linking of tanvirji or most members of this group, is > a > > > clear indication of putting the ball in the court of ashutoshji > and > > > DARING THE BOLD MEMBERS TO VENTURE TO ASK ASHUTOSHJI DIRECTLY > AND > > > GET BANNED BY HIM. > > > > > > you and i are risking this as we are sure that tanvirji would > > review > > > his decision and ashutoshji would also find the MORAL GROUNDS > not > > in > > > his favour when several members are openly objecting to his > > > moderatorship instantly after his appointment. if he wants to > > stick > > > to his post turning a blind eye to all these objections, let > > members > > > judge him. > > > > > > as regards you and i are concerned, we believe in free and fair > > > expression of knowledge as well as free sharing of knowledge and > > > also give and expect the same freedome and expression from > others. > > > > > > hope better sense prevails and tanvirji reviews his decision and > > > ashutoshji too finds some moral validity for his continuing as > > > moderator. > > > > > > with best wishes > > > pandit arjun > > > > > > > > > > > > , "crystal pages" > > > <jyotish_vani@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Arjun ji, > > > > > > > > After creating and nurturing this beautiful garden of > astrology > > > for > > > > some years and having built up membership, as mentioned a few > > > times, > > > > that vyes in numbers with the only other similar group which > has > > > an > > > > institution behind it as we all know (and this is not a > criticism > > > of > > > > another group, let me say outright!), what would be the > pragmatic > > > > reason for Tanvir to create a situation which has the > potential > > > for > > > > destroying his creation? > > > > > > > > I am merely expressing my perplexity as an ordinary member > here. > > > > > > > > Unless the child was misbehaving beyond his own good, why > would a > > > > parent punish him, if that is what this amounts to? > > > > > > > > RR > > > > > > > > , "panditarjun2004" > > > > <panditarjun2004@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > dear friends > > > > > > > > > > as brother satishji rightly put, the way this poll is > > > constructed, > > > > > it is a clever ploy to meet both the objectives of the group > > > > OWNER. > > > > > objective one is that he wants ashutosh as the dictator > > > moderator > > > > of > > > > > this group at any cost, so he gave 3 out of 4 options to > vote > > > for > > > > > ashutosh being the moderator. the second objective is that > > > since > > > > > many people are asking for reinstatement of bhaskarji, he > gave > > 3 > > > > out > > > > > of 4 options to remove the ban on bhaskarji, so that > bhaskarji > > > can > > > > > be reinstated based on this majority number. > > > > > > > > > > now, here is the catch. by this poll, the owner is clearly > > > > > conveying a message that he will do the following, as he has > > > done > > > > > earlier: > > > > > > > > > > 1. if he receives few complaints in his personal mail > against > > > one > > > > > member, he removes them autocratically like a dictator but > he > > > has > > > > > the power to review his decision, if members give feedback. > > > > > 2. he appoints such a moderator who empathises his way of > > > removing > > > > > an active member and improves the dictatorship by not even > > > telling > > > > > the group about it. > > > > > 3. he supports such moderator's acts publicly and reconfirm > > that > > > > > dictatorial rule is here to stay. > > > > > 4. instantly after the appointment of ashutosh as moderator, > he > > > > gets > > > > > serious objection from several members that he is an athiest > > who > > > > > cannot be the moderator of a jyotish group which believes in > > > god, > > > > or > > > > > he is a dictator, or many other reasons. what a great way > to > > > greet > > > > > a newly appointed moderator. the owner keeps silent on > these > > > > > observations. > > > > > 5. when several people object to the appointment of > asutoshji > > as > > > a > > > > > moderator, he cleverly formats a poll wherein 3 out of 4 > > options > > > > are > > > > > given to vote FOR ashutoshji. > > > > > > > > > > all the above clearly suggest that ashutoshji will remain > the > > > > > moderator of this group because of his alignment with the > > > > > dictatorship of the group owner. > > > > > > > > > > most group members who contribute their time, money and > energy > > > in > > > > > reading charts and sharing knowledge (including me) are now > > > afraid > > > > > that this moderator is ruthless and he would remail tall > only > > by > > > > > cutting (removing) all other members one by one. > > > > > > > > > > it fails simple common sense that these two dictators (owner > > and > > > > > moderator) have forgotten the very existence of an option > for > > > them > > > > > of putting an erring member under moderation so that all his > > bad > > > > > mails will be rejected and only good mails will be > approved. > > > that > > > > > way also they can convey the message to the member that all > his > > > bad > > > > > mails would not find place in this group. sending volumes > of > > > > > justification for removing a member outrightly SECOND TIME > IN > > AS > > > > > MANY MONTHS is a confirmation of the dictatorial functioning. > > > > > > > > > > the owner publicly exhibiting that he will not remove the > ban > > on > > > > > bhaskarji even if 100 people ask for it because he respects > the > > > > > moderator and THINKS that the moderator has done this > activity > > > > after > > > > > much thought and leaving 100% in the hands of one moderator > > > suggest > > > > > that he is throwing the ball of power to remove or impose > ban > > > only > > > > > in the hands of the moderator. this way the owner is > directly > > > > > daring the members to ask ashutoshji and not him when he is > > > cleary > > > > > exhibiting that he will not take decision or review a > decision > > > on > > > > > his own and that this group is now under the iron grip of > > > asutoshji > > > > > and not tanvirji. > > > > > > > > > > hence let ashutoshji run this group with his iron hand and > > > please > > > > > his owner. but the message is clear. all contributing > > members, > > > > > beware. you can be removed anytime without intimation and > even > > > if > > > > > hundred members ask for your reinstatement, all you get is > > > volumes > > > > > of justfication of autocratic dictatorship. > > > > > > > > > > HERE IS THE HYPOCRICY. THE GROUP OWNER SAYS HE LIKES A > > > PROCEDURAL > > > > > BAN. HE LIKES TO INFORM THE GROUP ABOUT THE BAN IF AND WHEN > HE > > > > > BANS. BUT IF HIS MODERATOR DOES NOT DO THESE AND DO AS PER > HIS > > > OWN > > > > > LIKING, THE OWNER ONLY RESPECTS THE MODERATOR HELPLESSLY > > BECAUSE > > > > THE > > > > > OWNER IS CONVEYING A MESSAGE THAT THIS MODERATOR (ASHUOTHJI) > IS > > > > MORE > > > > > POWERFUL THAN THE OWNER AND THE OWNER WILL NOT OBJECT TO > > > > ASUTOSHJI'S > > > > > DICTATORSHIP EVEN IF IT IS NOT TO THE LIKING OF THE OWNER. > > > > > > > > > > in the last two odd years, i wrote thousand times that this > > > group > > > > is > > > > > most democratic and complimented but the owner is proving > > > otherwise > > > > > because he is supporting a dictator as moderator even when > the > > > > > moderator does things which are not to the liking of the > owner. > > > > > > > > > > this is my last mail on this dictatorial moderator and the > 100% > > > all > > > > > out open support of the owner to this moderator as it is > > members > > > > who > > > > > constitute this group and not one owner and one moderator > and > > > > > majority of the members are interested in continuing to get > > into > > > > > reading of charts and sharing of knowledge and put an end to > > > this > > > > > dictatorial authority with which active contributing members > > are > > > > > removed ony by one. > > > > > > > > > > with best wishes and blessings > > > > > pandit arjun > > > > > > > > > > , "R Satish" > > > > > <rsatish1942@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Daer Tanvir, > > > > > > > > > > > > I have decided not to participate in the so > > > called > > > > > > poll. If only 50 people respond what decision are you > going > > to > > > > > take. > > > > > > It would be a travesty of norms to have a miniscule group > in > > > the > > > > > > polls decide without knowing the full picture. > > > > > > > > > > > > I think you should allow emotions to cool > down > > > > > first, > > > > > > restore a balance.A decision has been taken, which in any > > case > > > is > > > > > > not for eternity. Review after some days.Where is the > hassle? > > > > > > > > > > > > Creating pressure groups will open a > pandoras > > > box. > > > > I > > > > > > have left some groups myself where I did not agree with > the > > > tenor > > > > > of > > > > > > discussions.Democracy provides for this action. > > > > > > > > > > > > It has happened in some , when > a > > > split > > > > > > took place,a breakaway group was formed and which the > > > > > > permits > > > > > > forming . > > > > > > > > > > > > There are so many alernatives available. > > > > > > > > > > > > Best wishes. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Satish > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , "Tanvir > Chowdhury" > > > > > > <tanweera@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Prafulla Ji > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I did not set the option for revealing voter identity so > > > that > > > > > > people > > > > > > > can feel free to vote and whatever they feel can be > > > reflected. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In this situation no one can see who voted for whom, not > > > even I. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I believe I did not make any mistake making Ashutosh Ji > a > > > > > > moderator. > > > > > > > Still the option was kept as some of them raised the > > > question. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The poll will end about 2-4 days later. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > > > > Tanvir > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What cannot happen, can never happen. > > > > > > > Which is mine, is forever mine. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.jyotish-remedies.com - Vedic Astrology > (Jyotish) > > > > > > > Predictive astrology with incredibly powerful problem > > > solving > > > > > > > remedies > > > > > > > Where relief and solutions are found > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , Prafulla Gang > > > > > <jyotish@> > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Tanveer ji, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Poll can be configured to see - who has voted > for > > > which > > > > > > > option; and when results are announced - that is often > > > > disclosed > > > > > > as > > > > > > > well. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Since, you have raised a sensitive issue regarding > > > > > continuation > > > > > > of > > > > > > > Ashutosh as moderator - How can anyone vote freely, when > > > such > > > > > > > results (with member name) is known the moderator > himself > > > (or > > > > > when > > > > > > > results are announced). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The poll may not be holding confidentiality of vote > for > > > each > > > > > > > member's inclination. and under the circumstances, needs > > > > > assurance > > > > > > > from you, as to who will have access to the results !! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > regards / Prafulla Gang > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Kaun rota hai kisi aur ki khatir e dost, sabko apni hi > > > kisi > > > > > baat > > > > > > > pe rona aaya. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ************************************************ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > tanweera@ > > > > > > > > > Sat, 16 Sep 2006 20:34:02 -0000 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The poll > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear all : > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > As there are a lot of discussions, opinions etc. > about > > > this > > > > > > > recent > > > > > > > > > ban with most of the people going against the ban. I > > > want > > > > to > > > > > > know > > > > > > > > > what the majority says. Please voice your opinion > > > freely. I > > > > > am > > > > > > a > > > > > > > > > believer of democracy, most of the times I must add. > > > (But I > > > > > > know > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > admit that sometimes autocracy is needed, too.) > Anyway. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I personally feel that Bhaskar Ji's comment was > > > > > irresponsible > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > beyond general norms of courtesy. And if I were > there I > > > > > would > > > > > > > have > > > > > > > > > at least put him on moderation or perhaps I would > ask > > > him to > > > > > > > > > apologize and if he did not then perhaps ban him. > The > > > only > > > > > > thing > > > > > > > > > that supports him is his great contributions, there > is > > > no > > > > > doubt > > > > > > > > > about him. And we all are grateful to him for that. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > However we must also rememeber, as I always say, > doing > > > even > > > > > > > hundred > > > > > > > > > good deads do not permit one to do one evil. I may > feed > > > a > > > > > > hungry > > > > > > > > > poor person to the limit of his stomach but does it > > > REALLY > > > > > > > entitle > > > > > > > > > me to beat him, or to insult him, for the cost of > > > feeding? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If we are to respect, and be greatful to Bhaskar Ji > for > > > his > > > > > > > > > contributions, then we must same time also voice > > against > > > > the > > > > > > > biased > > > > > > > > > comments that he has made. ONLY THAT IS JUSTICE. I > > > > > personally > > > > > > was > > > > > > > > > very frustrated by his biased comments and we cannot > > > expect > > > > > > this > > > > > > > > > from a matured, wise, kind person who does good to > > needy > > > > > > people. > > > > > > > > > Esp. on this international board where people from > all > > > over > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > world gather. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I was informed by Ashutosh Ji that even though > Bhaskar > > > Ji > > > > > was > > > > > > > argued > > > > > > > > > with about his mean (Yes, I would say so.) comments > he > > > > > > continued > > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > > stick to it and always supported his earlier > statement. > > > > > > NOTHING > > > > > > > can > > > > > > > > > be more frustrating than this, when someone refuses > to > > > > > accept > > > > > > his > > > > > > > > > mistake. To err is human being and to accept mistake > is > > > the > > > > > > > > > greatness. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Even though he was banned by Ashutosh Ji without a > > > warning > > > > or > > > > > > > > > precaution BUT THEN Ashutosh Ji is correct about his > > > > > statement > > > > > > > that > > > > > > > > > as Bhaskar Ji kept sticking to his comments, what is > > the > > > > > point > > > > > > of > > > > > > > > > giving him another warning. He already refuses to > admit > > > his > > > > > > > mistake. > > > > > > > > > Right? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Still, people have different defition of justice and > > > > > different > > > > > > > > > styles of judgement, and that is why this poll is > for, > > > to > > > > > know > > > > > > > what > > > > > > > > > you think. Because each of the members of JR is a > part > > > of > > > > > it, > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > they all are equally important. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks for being a part of JR family. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards > > > > > > > > > Tanvir. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What cannot happen, can never happen. > > > > > > > > > Which is mine, is forever mine. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.jyotish-remedies.com - Vedic Astrology > > > (Jyotish) > > > > > > > > > Predictive astrology with incredibly powerful > problem > > > > solving > > > > > > > > > remedies > > > > > > > > > Where relief and solutions are found > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 19, 2006 Report Share Posted September 19, 2006 dear RR ji am aware of many western astrologers who believed in rahu and ketu but all of them believed vedic jyotish written by hindu sages. one medieveal book which is a compilation of the vedas and the samhitas miss out or the author personally wish not to, it does not validate the existence of rahu and ketu along with the other seven planets as written in proper vedas and puranas. i can quote several puranas which mention these nine planets. i would definitely stand educated, if you share with references where westerners who do not believe in vedas or vedic jyotish in their new styled astrology subject developed a couple of decades ago, have believed in rahu and ketu. surely would learn it as a new lesson from you that these rahu and ketu are accepted as grahas by these western astrologers of others sytems who do not have any base on vedic jyotish built on the vedas. with best wishes pandit arjun , "crystal pages" <jyotish_vani wrote: > > In case anyone is still reading this thread -- > > In addition to what I wrote about lunar nodes and Varahamihira -- > > Western astrology has utilized lunar nodes (Rahu=noth, Ketu = south) > for at least last several decades if not longer. > > Rahu and ketu are not simply mythological entities, though the rich > allegories of mythologies do bring a lot of rich wisdom to jyotish, > let me assure you all! Rahu and ketu may not be bodies, but real > points that are created by paths of the lights! Lot has been written > about those! Hopefully someone was studying and not reading > selectively! > > Jyotish may lead us to spiritual realities, but this spaceship is > launched from planet earth (geocentric reality) and thus it has been > primarily rooted in worldly, earthly, householder, common man > reality! The journey will hopefully lead us to realms that must one > day be ours, but for most of us, we have still not managed to > supersede the "escape velocity" that will get us beyond the reach of > the worldly, earthly reality of commonplace gravity! > > I am surrounded by wise, all knowing, accomplished individuals and so > I do not want this to turn this into yet another brick-bat session > for whatever reason! > > As far as 'chemicals' are concerned, each human body I was told > represents chemicals that cost about 67 cents. Maybe with inflation, > they may represent a hundred rupees. So be it! The chemicals remain > behind when we die, all of us eventually and for sure! How have we > used those chemicals while we were alive and given the gift by the > God of our choice -- to LIVE and express HIS or HER dream! Which is > what I believe this creation and all of us puppets represent! > > RR > > , "panditarjun2004" > <panditarjun2004@> wrote: > > > > dear RRji > > > > let me throw more light on jyotish remedies. > > > > BPHS written by sage parashasa of vyasa lineage is a HINDU SAGE who > > explained how the grahas are DIRECTLY CORRELATED TO VARIOUS GODS > and > > suggested various remedies of pleasing GODS AND DIETIES WHICH ARE > > ALL HINDU. even the other samhitas of the north and the nadis of > > the south are also written by the sages who all meditated for > > hundreds and thousands of years and worshipped various gods and > > goddesses under hinduism and all the remedies suggested by them > have > > direct link to hindu mythology of gods and goddesses where planets > > and stars are not seen like by balls of mud and chemicals but like > > living gods and demons. > > > > any person, be it a christian or a muslim, if he is believing, > > practicing and preaching VEDIC ASTROLOGY AND VEDIC JYOTISH > REMEDIES, > > it implies that he too believes and accepts hindu mythology. > > > > some astrologers (not me) try to project themselves as people with > > scientific background and say that they believe astronomy and not > > astrology. i ask a direct query to all of them. if NASA has not > > endorsed the existence of rahu and ketu as two separate planets, > why > > these scientific rationalist so called astrologers are believing, > > practicing, preaching and selling the goods of these non existing > > planets. > > > > so, only those persons who believe these planets as gods and > demons, > > they only can PRACTICE VEDIC ASTROLOGY. the westerners who do not > > beleive in rahu and ketu have a different astrology based on > > astronomy and they have all support and validation to do so because > > they are not endorsing rahu and ketu. BUT ALL THOSE WHO ENDORSE > AND > > RECOMMEND REMEDIES FOR RAHU AND KETU MUST BE BELIEVERS OF HINDU > > MYTHOLOGY. > > > > what is your opinion on rahu and ketu being part of only vedic > > astrology WHICH IS 100% BASED ON HINDU MYTHOLOGY. > > > > with best wishes > > pandit arjun > > > > , "crystal pages" > > <jyotish_vani@> wrote: > > > > > > Arjun ji, > > > > > > I understand the points raised by you. I have rubbed many members > > the > > > wrong way in the past -- that is my prarabdha. > > > > > > When Kumar ji was banned, I was the first one to respond here > > > publicly and so did others, and Tanvir reversed his decision on > > very > > > sane and rational grounds very OPENLY and transparently! > > > > > > I have had difficult conversations with Kumarji on this board, > but > > > the beauty in his soul was never lost upon me. Call me biased! > > > > > > I have not commented on the present 'drama' or MAYA if you want > to > > > call it! Because I do not feel that I can connect to it. > > > > > > Religious angle to astrology is like subtitles in a film! It may > > make > > > the film and theme and dialogue more understandable, but it does > > not > > > take over the original film! > > > > > > Astrology is pure, like an infant. It has no theme and language > > and > > > agenda! It is just supposed to bring instant love to the heart! > > Who > > > ever really understood the gurgling and cooing of an infant (even > > the > > > mother!), but who could ever resist picking it up? > > > > > > RR > > > > > > > > > > > > , "panditarjun2004" > > > <panditarjun2004@> wrote: > > > > > > > > dear RRji > > > > > > > > in the net, the space is offered freely by and whosoever > > has > > > > created these groups have given a platform to likeminded people > > to > > > > come and share their views and opinions freely and also discuss > > the > > > > subject of astrology, remedies and learn it by asking questions > > as > > > > well as also give free readings, time permitting. tanvirji has > > > been > > > > most democratic by giving 100% automatic approval for all > > members > > > > which is his hallmark till date. however due to his > > preoccupation > > > > with his own life and having less time to answer queries in > this > > > > group, few members like us have made this group like our own > > group > > > > and have started giving our best contributions by sparing our > > time, > > > > money and energy. true ashutoshji is also a great member and > > great > > > > contributor like you and me. but i emphasised in several mails > > > that > > > > VEDIC JYOTISH OR ASTROLOGY IS INEXPLICABLY INTERTWINED WITH > > HINDU > > > > (NOT OTHER RELIGIONS) MYTHOLOGY AND HENCE A PERSON WHO DOES NOT > > > > BELIEVE IN GOD, CANNOT HEAD THIS GROUP OF JYOTISH REMEDIES > WHICH > > > > BELIEVES IN GOD. Tanviji is a great astrologer and he beleives > > in > > > > god. > > > > > > > > you and i are the first two individuals who got the bad moody > > > > expression of words by bhaskarji but both have seen the > > potential > > > > knowledge and contributions he could make to the group and have > > > > accommodated him and he brought happiness and relief to several > > > > querents. i advised him publicly as well as in private not to > > let > > > > his moods overtake his expressions and show maturity by writing > > > > positive polished language which, unfortunately he could not > not > > > > improve upon and am sure he will improve as he got two LEARNING > > > > EXPERIENCES by getting banned from the two largest astro groups > > on > > > > the web. > > > > > > > > one thing i can conclude firmly is that the way tanvirji is > > > > expressing emphatically that ashutoshji is now the new > moderator > > > who > > > > got 100% rights and powers to do any thing as ashutosh feels > fit > > > and > > > > that tanvirji dont interfere even if ashutosh does things which > > are > > > > not to the linking of tanvirji or most members of this group, > is > > a > > > > clear indication of putting the ball in the court of ashutoshji > > and > > > > DARING THE BOLD MEMBERS TO VENTURE TO ASK ASHUTOSHJI DIRECTLY > > AND > > > > GET BANNED BY HIM. > > > > > > > > you and i are risking this as we are sure that tanvirji would > > > review > > > > his decision and ashutoshji would also find the MORAL GROUNDS > > not > > > in > > > > his favour when several members are openly objecting to his > > > > moderatorship instantly after his appointment. if he wants to > > > stick > > > > to his post turning a blind eye to all these objections, let > > > members > > > > judge him. > > > > > > > > as regards you and i are concerned, we believe in free and fair > > > > expression of knowledge as well as free sharing of knowledge > and > > > > also give and expect the same freedome and expression from > > others. > > > > > > > > hope better sense prevails and tanvirji reviews his decision > and > > > > ashutoshji too finds some moral validity for his continuing as > > > > moderator. > > > > > > > > with best wishes > > > > pandit arjun > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , "crystal pages" > > > > <jyotish_vani@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Arjun ji, > > > > > > > > > > After creating and nurturing this beautiful garden of > > astrology > > > > for > > > > > some years and having built up membership, as mentioned a few > > > > times, > > > > > that vyes in numbers with the only other similar group which > > has > > > > an > > > > > institution behind it as we all know (and this is not a > > criticism > > > > of > > > > > another group, let me say outright!), what would be the > > pragmatic > > > > > reason for Tanvir to create a situation which has the > > potential > > > > for > > > > > destroying his creation? > > > > > > > > > > I am merely expressing my perplexity as an ordinary member > > here. > > > > > > > > > > Unless the child was misbehaving beyond his own good, why > > would a > > > > > parent punish him, if that is what this amounts to? > > > > > > > > > > RR > > > > > > > > > > , "panditarjun2004" > > > > > <panditarjun2004@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > dear friends > > > > > > > > > > > > as brother satishji rightly put, the way this poll is > > > > constructed, > > > > > > it is a clever ploy to meet both the objectives of the > group > > > > > OWNER. > > > > > > objective one is that he wants ashutosh as the dictator > > > > moderator > > > > > of > > > > > > this group at any cost, so he gave 3 out of 4 options to > > vote > > > > for > > > > > > ashutosh being the moderator. the second objective is that > > > > since > > > > > > many people are asking for reinstatement of bhaskarji, he > > gave > > > 3 > > > > > out > > > > > > of 4 options to remove the ban on bhaskarji, so that > > bhaskarji > > > > can > > > > > > be reinstated based on this majority number. > > > > > > > > > > > > now, here is the catch. by this poll, the owner is clearly > > > > > > conveying a message that he will do the following, as he > has > > > > done > > > > > > earlier: > > > > > > > > > > > > 1. if he receives few complaints in his personal mail > > against > > > > one > > > > > > member, he removes them autocratically like a dictator but > > he > > > > has > > > > > > the power to review his decision, if members give feedback. > > > > > > 2. he appoints such a moderator who empathises his way of > > > > removing > > > > > > an active member and improves the dictatorship by not even > > > > telling > > > > > > the group about it. > > > > > > 3. he supports such moderator's acts publicly and reconfirm > > > that > > > > > > dictatorial rule is here to stay. > > > > > > 4. instantly after the appointment of ashutosh as > moderator, > > he > > > > > gets > > > > > > serious objection from several members that he is an > athiest > > > who > > > > > > cannot be the moderator of a jyotish group which believes > in > > > > god, > > > > > or > > > > > > he is a dictator, or many other reasons. what a great way > > to > > > > greet > > > > > > a newly appointed moderator. the owner keeps silent on > > these > > > > > > observations. > > > > > > 5. when several people object to the appointment of > > asutoshji > > > as > > > > a > > > > > > moderator, he cleverly formats a poll wherein 3 out of 4 > > > options > > > > > are > > > > > > given to vote FOR ashutoshji. > > > > > > > > > > > > all the above clearly suggest that ashutoshji will remain > > the > > > > > > moderator of this group because of his alignment with the > > > > > > dictatorship of the group owner. > > > > > > > > > > > > most group members who contribute their time, money and > > energy > > > > in > > > > > > reading charts and sharing knowledge (including me) are now > > > > afraid > > > > > > that this moderator is ruthless and he would remail tall > > only > > > by > > > > > > cutting (removing) all other members one by one. > > > > > > > > > > > > it fails simple common sense that these two dictators > (owner > > > and > > > > > > moderator) have forgotten the very existence of an option > > for > > > > them > > > > > > of putting an erring member under moderation so that all > his > > > bad > > > > > > mails will be rejected and only good mails will be > > approved. > > > > that > > > > > > way also they can convey the message to the member that all > > his > > > > bad > > > > > > mails would not find place in this group. sending volumes > > of > > > > > > justification for removing a member outrightly SECOND TIME > > IN > > > AS > > > > > > MANY MONTHS is a confirmation of the dictatorial > functioning. > > > > > > > > > > > > the owner publicly exhibiting that he will not remove the > > ban > > > on > > > > > > bhaskarji even if 100 people ask for it because he respects > > the > > > > > > moderator and THINKS that the moderator has done this > > activity > > > > > after > > > > > > much thought and leaving 100% in the hands of one moderator > > > > suggest > > > > > > that he is throwing the ball of power to remove or impose > > ban > > > > only > > > > > > in the hands of the moderator. this way the owner is > > directly > > > > > > daring the members to ask ashutoshji and not him when he is > > > > cleary > > > > > > exhibiting that he will not take decision or review a > > decision > > > > on > > > > > > his own and that this group is now under the iron grip of > > > > asutoshji > > > > > > and not tanvirji. > > > > > > > > > > > > hence let ashutoshji run this group with his iron hand and > > > > please > > > > > > his owner. but the message is clear. all contributing > > > members, > > > > > > beware. you can be removed anytime without intimation and > > even > > > > if > > > > > > hundred members ask for your reinstatement, all you get is > > > > volumes > > > > > > of justfication of autocratic dictatorship. > > > > > > > > > > > > HERE IS THE HYPOCRICY. THE GROUP OWNER SAYS HE LIKES A > > > > PROCEDURAL > > > > > > BAN. HE LIKES TO INFORM THE GROUP ABOUT THE BAN IF AND > WHEN > > HE > > > > > > BANS. BUT IF HIS MODERATOR DOES NOT DO THESE AND DO AS PER > > HIS > > > > OWN > > > > > > LIKING, THE OWNER ONLY RESPECTS THE MODERATOR HELPLESSLY > > > BECAUSE > > > > > THE > > > > > > OWNER IS CONVEYING A MESSAGE THAT THIS MODERATOR > (ASHUOTHJI) > > IS > > > > > MORE > > > > > > POWERFUL THAN THE OWNER AND THE OWNER WILL NOT OBJECT TO > > > > > ASUTOSHJI'S > > > > > > DICTATORSHIP EVEN IF IT IS NOT TO THE LIKING OF THE OWNER. > > > > > > > > > > > > in the last two odd years, i wrote thousand times that this > > > > group > > > > > is > > > > > > most democratic and complimented but the owner is proving > > > > otherwise > > > > > > because he is supporting a dictator as moderator even when > > the > > > > > > moderator does things which are not to the liking of the > > owner. > > > > > > > > > > > > this is my last mail on this dictatorial moderator and the > > 100% > > > > all > > > > > > out open support of the owner to this moderator as it is > > > members > > > > > who > > > > > > constitute this group and not one owner and one moderator > > and > > > > > > majority of the members are interested in continuing to get > > > into > > > > > > reading of charts and sharing of knowledge and put an end > to > > > > this > > > > > > dictatorial authority with which active contributing > members > > > are > > > > > > removed ony by one. > > > > > > > > > > > > with best wishes and blessings > > > > > > pandit arjun > > > > > > > > > > > > , "R Satish" > > > > > > <rsatish1942@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Daer Tanvir, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I have decided not to participate in the > so > > > > called > > > > > > > poll. If only 50 people respond what decision are you > > going > > > to > > > > > > take. > > > > > > > It would be a travesty of norms to have a miniscule > group > > in > > > > the > > > > > > > polls decide without knowing the full picture. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I think you should allow emotions to cool > > down > > > > > > first, > > > > > > > restore a balance.A decision has been taken, which in any > > > case > > > > is > > > > > > > not for eternity. Review after some days.Where is the > > hassle? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Creating pressure groups will open a > > pandoras > > > > box. > > > > > I > > > > > > > have left some groups myself where I did not agree with > > the > > > > tenor > > > > > > of > > > > > > > discussions.Democracy provides for this action. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It has happened in some , when > > a > > > > split > > > > > > > took place,a breakaway group was formed and which the > > > > > > > > permits > > > > > > > forming . > > > > > > > > > > > > > > There are so many alernatives available. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Best wishes. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Satish > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , "Tanvir > > Chowdhury" > > > > > > > <tanweera@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Prafulla Ji > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I did not set the option for revealing voter identity > so > > > > that > > > > > > > people > > > > > > > > can feel free to vote and whatever they feel can be > > > > reflected. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In this situation no one can see who voted for whom, > not > > > > even I. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I believe I did not make any mistake making Ashutosh Ji > > a > > > > > > > moderator. > > > > > > > > Still the option was kept as some of them raised the > > > > question. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The poll will end about 2-4 days later. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > > > > > Tanvir > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What cannot happen, can never happen. > > > > > > > > Which is mine, is forever mine. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.jyotish-remedies.com - Vedic Astrology > > (Jyotish) > > > > > > > > Predictive astrology with incredibly powerful problem > > > > solving > > > > > > > > remedies > > > > > > > > Where relief and solutions are found > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , Prafulla Gang > > > > > > <jyotish@> > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Tanveer ji, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Poll can be configured to see - who has voted > > for > > > > which > > > > > > > > option; and when results are announced - that is often > > > > > disclosed > > > > > > > as > > > > > > > > well. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Since, you have raised a sensitive issue regarding > > > > > > continuation > > > > > > > of > > > > > > > > Ashutosh as moderator - How can anyone vote freely, > when > > > > such > > > > > > > > results (with member name) is known the moderator > > himself > > > > (or > > > > > > when > > > > > > > > results are announced). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The poll may not be holding confidentiality of vote > > for > > > > each > > > > > > > > member's inclination. and under the circumstances, > needs > > > > > > assurance > > > > > > > > from you, as to who will have access to the results !! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > regards / Prafulla Gang > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Kaun rota hai kisi aur ki khatir e dost, sabko apni > hi > > > > kisi > > > > > > baat > > > > > > > > pe rona aaya. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ************************************************ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > tanweera@ > > > > > > > > > > Sat, 16 Sep 2006 20:34:02 -0000 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The poll > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear all : > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > As there are a lot of discussions, opinions etc. > > about > > > > this > > > > > > > > recent > > > > > > > > > > ban with most of the people going against the ban. > I > > > > want > > > > > to > > > > > > > know > > > > > > > > > > what the majority says. Please voice your opinion > > > > freely. I > > > > > > am > > > > > > > a > > > > > > > > > > believer of democracy, most of the times I must > add. > > > > (But I > > > > > > > know > > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > > admit that sometimes autocracy is needed, too.) > > Anyway. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I personally feel that Bhaskar Ji's comment was > > > > > > irresponsible > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > > beyond general norms of courtesy. And if I were > > there I > > > > > > would > > > > > > > > have > > > > > > > > > > at least put him on moderation or perhaps I would > > ask > > > > him to > > > > > > > > > > apologize and if he did not then perhaps ban him. > > The > > > > only > > > > > > > thing > > > > > > > > > > that supports him is his great contributions, there > > is > > > > no > > > > > > doubt > > > > > > > > > > about him. And we all are grateful to him for that. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > However we must also rememeber, as I always say, > > doing > > > > even > > > > > > > > hundred > > > > > > > > > > good deads do not permit one to do one evil. I may > > feed > > > > a > > > > > > > hungry > > > > > > > > > > poor person to the limit of his stomach but does it > > > > REALLY > > > > > > > > entitle > > > > > > > > > > me to beat him, or to insult him, for the cost of > > > > feeding? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If we are to respect, and be greatful to Bhaskar Ji > > for > > > > his > > > > > > > > > > contributions, then we must same time also voice > > > against > > > > > the > > > > > > > > biased > > > > > > > > > > comments that he has made. ONLY THAT IS JUSTICE. I > > > > > > personally > > > > > > > was > > > > > > > > > > very frustrated by his biased comments and we > cannot > > > > expect > > > > > > > this > > > > > > > > > > from a matured, wise, kind person who does good to > > > needy > > > > > > > people. > > > > > > > > > > Esp. on this international board where people from > > all > > > > over > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > world gather. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I was informed by Ashutosh Ji that even though > > Bhaskar > > > > Ji > > > > > > was > > > > > > > > argued > > > > > > > > > > with about his mean (Yes, I would say so.) comments > > he > > > > > > > continued > > > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > > > stick to it and always supported his earlier > > statement. > > > > > > > NOTHING > > > > > > > > can > > > > > > > > > > be more frustrating than this, when someone refuses > > to > > > > > > accept > > > > > > > his > > > > > > > > > > mistake. To err is human being and to accept > mistake > > is > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > greatness. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Even though he was banned by Ashutosh Ji without a > > > > warning > > > > > or > > > > > > > > > > precaution BUT THEN Ashutosh Ji is correct about > his > > > > > > statement > > > > > > > > that > > > > > > > > > > as Bhaskar Ji kept sticking to his comments, what > is > > > the > > > > > > point > > > > > > > of > > > > > > > > > > giving him another warning. He already refuses to > > admit > > > > his > > > > > > > > mistake. > > > > > > > > > > Right? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Still, people have different defition of justice > and > > > > > > different > > > > > > > > > > styles of judgement, and that is why this poll is > > for, > > > > to > > > > > > know > > > > > > > > what > > > > > > > > > > you think. Because each of the members of JR is a > > part > > > > of > > > > > > it, > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > > they all are equally important. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks for being a part of JR family. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards > > > > > > > > > > Tanvir. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What cannot happen, can never happen. > > > > > > > > > > Which is mine, is forever mine. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.jyotish-remedies.com - Vedic Astrology > > > > (Jyotish) > > > > > > > > > > Predictive astrology with incredibly powerful > > problem > > > > > solving > > > > > > > > > > remedies > > > > > > > > > > Where relief and solutions are found > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 19, 2006 Report Share Posted September 19, 2006 Arjun ji, Like I said, I am not versed in western astrology -- Jyotish has been quite a journey by itself. However, anything I read about Western Astrology -- books by Alan Leo, Sepharial, by Rudhyar, by Noel Tyl and those who embraced jyotish and tropical (as in, did not close their shutters!) have always talked about and included lunar nodes! I have generally found Tropical-Western astrologers to be more open- minded and embracing. But then I have known more jyotishis than astrologers! I know you will not take this the wrong way but other less generous participants on this forum may -- hence I say it aloud for their clarification. I think this is one of those where we will not arrive at the finish point soon or readily -- and with me getting ready for my course as I mentioned yesterday, if you do not hear back from me, please do not take it wrongly as an expression of disrespect or slight. You and I are way beyond that worldly point of connection, unless I am grossly mistaken! Warmest regards, Ranjan , "panditarjun2004" <panditarjun2004 wrote: > > dear RR ji > > am aware of many western astrologers who believed in rahu and ketu > but all of them believed vedic jyotish written by hindu sages. > > one medieveal book which is a compilation of the vedas and the > samhitas miss out or the author personally wish not to, it does not > validate the existence of rahu and ketu along with the other seven > planets as written in proper vedas and puranas. i can quote several > puranas which mention these nine planets. > > i would definitely stand educated, if you share with references > where westerners who do not believe in vedas or vedic jyotish in > their new styled astrology subject developed a couple of decades > ago, have believed in rahu and ketu. surely would learn it as a new > lesson from you that these rahu and ketu are accepted as grahas by > these western astrologers of others sytems who do not have any base > on vedic jyotish built on the vedas. > > with best wishes > pandit arjun > > > > , "crystal pages" > <jyotish_vani@> wrote: > > > > In case anyone is still reading this thread -- > > > > In addition to what I wrote about lunar nodes and Varahamihira -- > > > > Western astrology has utilized lunar nodes (Rahu=noth, Ketu = > south) > > for at least last several decades if not longer. > > > > Rahu and ketu are not simply mythological entities, though the > rich > > allegories of mythologies do bring a lot of rich wisdom to > jyotish, > > let me assure you all! Rahu and ketu may not be bodies, but real > > points that are created by paths of the lights! Lot has been > written > > about those! Hopefully someone was studying and not reading > > selectively! > > > > Jyotish may lead us to spiritual realities, but this spaceship is > > launched from planet earth (geocentric reality) and thus it has > been > > primarily rooted in worldly, earthly, householder, common man > > reality! The journey will hopefully lead us to realms that must > one > > day be ours, but for most of us, we have still not managed to > > supersede the "escape velocity" that will get us beyond the reach > of > > the worldly, earthly reality of commonplace gravity! > > > > I am surrounded by wise, all knowing, accomplished individuals and > so > > I do not want this to turn this into yet another brick-bat session > > for whatever reason! > > > > As far as 'chemicals' are concerned, each human body I was told > > represents chemicals that cost about 67 cents. Maybe with > inflation, > > they may represent a hundred rupees. So be it! The chemicals > remain > > behind when we die, all of us eventually and for sure! How have we > > used those chemicals while we were alive and given the gift by the > > God of our choice -- to LIVE and express HIS or HER dream! Which > is > > what I believe this creation and all of us puppets represent! > > > > RR > > > > , "panditarjun2004" > > <panditarjun2004@> wrote: > > > > > > dear RRji > > > > > > let me throw more light on jyotish remedies. > > > > > > BPHS written by sage parashasa of vyasa lineage is a HINDU SAGE > who > > > explained how the grahas are DIRECTLY CORRELATED TO VARIOUS GODS > > and > > > suggested various remedies of pleasing GODS AND DIETIES WHICH > ARE > > > ALL HINDU. even the other samhitas of the north and the nadis > of > > > the south are also written by the sages who all meditated for > > > hundreds and thousands of years and worshipped various gods and > > > goddesses under hinduism and all the remedies suggested by them > > have > > > direct link to hindu mythology of gods and goddesses where > planets > > > and stars are not seen like by balls of mud and chemicals but > like > > > living gods and demons. > > > > > > any person, be it a christian or a muslim, if he is believing, > > > practicing and preaching VEDIC ASTROLOGY AND VEDIC JYOTISH > > REMEDIES, > > > it implies that he too believes and accepts hindu mythology. > > > > > > some astrologers (not me) try to project themselves as people > with > > > scientific background and say that they believe astronomy and > not > > > astrology. i ask a direct query to all of them. if NASA has > not > > > endorsed the existence of rahu and ketu as two separate planets, > > why > > > these scientific rationalist so called astrologers are > believing, > > > practicing, preaching and selling the goods of these non > existing > > > planets. > > > > > > so, only those persons who believe these planets as gods and > > demons, > > > they only can PRACTICE VEDIC ASTROLOGY. the westerners who do > not > > > beleive in rahu and ketu have a different astrology based on > > > astronomy and they have all support and validation to do so > because > > > they are not endorsing rahu and ketu. BUT ALL THOSE WHO ENDORSE > > AND > > > RECOMMEND REMEDIES FOR RAHU AND KETU MUST BE BELIEVERS OF HINDU > > > MYTHOLOGY. > > > > > > what is your opinion on rahu and ketu being part of only vedic > > > astrology WHICH IS 100% BASED ON HINDU MYTHOLOGY. > > > > > > with best wishes > > > pandit arjun > > > > > > , "crystal pages" > > > <jyotish_vani@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Arjun ji, > > > > > > > > I understand the points raised by you. I have rubbed many > members > > > the > > > > wrong way in the past -- that is my prarabdha. > > > > > > > > When Kumar ji was banned, I was the first one to respond here > > > > publicly and so did others, and Tanvir reversed his decision > on > > > very > > > > sane and rational grounds very OPENLY and transparently! > > > > > > > > I have had difficult conversations with Kumarji on this board, > > but > > > > the beauty in his soul was never lost upon me. Call me biased! > > > > > > > > I have not commented on the present 'drama' or MAYA if you > want > > to > > > > call it! Because I do not feel that I can connect to it. > > > > > > > > Religious angle to astrology is like subtitles in a film! It > may > > > make > > > > the film and theme and dialogue more understandable, but it > does > > > not > > > > take over the original film! > > > > > > > > Astrology is pure, like an infant. It has no theme and > language > > > and > > > > agenda! It is just supposed to bring instant love to the > heart! > > > Who > > > > ever really understood the gurgling and cooing of an infant > (even > > > the > > > > mother!), but who could ever resist picking it up? > > > > > > > > RR > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , "panditarjun2004" > > > > <panditarjun2004@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > dear RRji > > > > > > > > > > in the net, the space is offered freely by and > whosoever > > > has > > > > > created these groups have given a platform to likeminded > people > > > to > > > > > come and share their views and opinions freely and also > discuss > > > the > > > > > subject of astrology, remedies and learn it by asking > questions > > > as > > > > > well as also give free readings, time permitting. tanvirji > has > > > > been > > > > > most democratic by giving 100% automatic approval for all > > > members > > > > > which is his hallmark till date. however due to his > > > preoccupation > > > > > with his own life and having less time to answer queries in > > this > > > > > group, few members like us have made this group like our own > > > group > > > > > and have started giving our best contributions by sparing > our > > > time, > > > > > money and energy. true ashutoshji is also a great member > and > > > great > > > > > contributor like you and me. but i emphasised in several > mails > > > > that > > > > > VEDIC JYOTISH OR ASTROLOGY IS INEXPLICABLY INTERTWINED WITH > > > HINDU > > > > > (NOT OTHER RELIGIONS) MYTHOLOGY AND HENCE A PERSON WHO DOES > NOT > > > > > BELIEVE IN GOD, CANNOT HEAD THIS GROUP OF JYOTISH REMEDIES > > WHICH > > > > > BELIEVES IN GOD. Tanviji is a great astrologer and he > beleives > > > in > > > > > god. > > > > > > > > > > you and i are the first two individuals who got the bad > moody > > > > > expression of words by bhaskarji but both have seen the > > > potential > > > > > knowledge and contributions he could make to the group and > have > > > > > accommodated him and he brought happiness and relief to > several > > > > > querents. i advised him publicly as well as in private not > to > > > let > > > > > his moods overtake his expressions and show maturity by > writing > > > > > positive polished language which, unfortunately he could not > > not > > > > > improve upon and am sure he will improve as he got two > LEARNING > > > > > EXPERIENCES by getting banned from the two largest astro > groups > > > on > > > > > the web. > > > > > > > > > > one thing i can conclude firmly is that the way tanvirji is > > > > > expressing emphatically that ashutoshji is now the new > > moderator > > > > who > > > > > got 100% rights and powers to do any thing as ashutosh feels > > fit > > > > and > > > > > that tanvirji dont interfere even if ashutosh does things > which > > > are > > > > > not to the linking of tanvirji or most members of this > group, > > is > > > a > > > > > clear indication of putting the ball in the court of > ashutoshji > > > and > > > > > DARING THE BOLD MEMBERS TO VENTURE TO ASK ASHUTOSHJI > DIRECTLY > > > AND > > > > > GET BANNED BY HIM. > > > > > > > > > > you and i are risking this as we are sure that tanvirji > would > > > > review > > > > > his decision and ashutoshji would also find the MORAL > GROUNDS > > > not > > > > in > > > > > his favour when several members are openly objecting to his > > > > > moderatorship instantly after his appointment. if he wants > to > > > > stick > > > > > to his post turning a blind eye to all these objections, let > > > > members > > > > > judge him. > > > > > > > > > > as regards you and i are concerned, we believe in free and > fair > > > > > expression of knowledge as well as free sharing of knowledge > > and > > > > > also give and expect the same freedome and expression from > > > others. > > > > > > > > > > hope better sense prevails and tanvirji reviews his decision > > and > > > > > ashutoshji too finds some moral validity for his continuing > as > > > > > moderator. > > > > > > > > > > with best wishes > > > > > pandit arjun > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , "crystal pages" > > > > > <jyotish_vani@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Arjun ji, > > > > > > > > > > > > After creating and nurturing this beautiful garden of > > > astrology > > > > > for > > > > > > some years and having built up membership, as mentioned a > few > > > > > times, > > > > > > that vyes in numbers with the only other similar group > which > > > has > > > > > an > > > > > > institution behind it as we all know (and this is not a > > > criticism > > > > > of > > > > > > another group, let me say outright!), what would be the > > > pragmatic > > > > > > reason for Tanvir to create a situation which has the > > > potential > > > > > for > > > > > > destroying his creation? > > > > > > > > > > > > I am merely expressing my perplexity as an ordinary member > > > here. > > > > > > > > > > > > Unless the child was misbehaving beyond his own good, why > > > would a > > > > > > parent punish him, if that is what this amounts to? > > > > > > > > > > > > RR > > > > > > > > > > > > , "panditarjun2004" > > > > > > <panditarjun2004@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > dear friends > > > > > > > > > > > > > > as brother satishji rightly put, the way this poll is > > > > > constructed, > > > > > > > it is a clever ploy to meet both the objectives of the > > group > > > > > > OWNER. > > > > > > > objective one is that he wants ashutosh as the dictator > > > > > moderator > > > > > > of > > > > > > > this group at any cost, so he gave 3 out of 4 options to > > > vote > > > > > for > > > > > > > ashutosh being the moderator. the second objective is > that > > > > > since > > > > > > > many people are asking for reinstatement of bhaskarji, > he > > > gave > > > > 3 > > > > > > out > > > > > > > of 4 options to remove the ban on bhaskarji, so that > > > bhaskarji > > > > > can > > > > > > > be reinstated based on this majority number. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > now, here is the catch. by this poll, the owner is > clearly > > > > > > > conveying a message that he will do the following, as he > > has > > > > > done > > > > > > > earlier: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1. if he receives few complaints in his personal mail > > > against > > > > > one > > > > > > > member, he removes them autocratically like a dictator > but > > > he > > > > > has > > > > > > > the power to review his decision, if members give > feedback. > > > > > > > 2. he appoints such a moderator who empathises his way > of > > > > > removing > > > > > > > an active member and improves the dictatorship by not > even > > > > > telling > > > > > > > the group about it. > > > > > > > 3. he supports such moderator's acts publicly and > reconfirm > > > > that > > > > > > > dictatorial rule is here to stay. > > > > > > > 4. instantly after the appointment of ashutosh as > > moderator, > > > he > > > > > > gets > > > > > > > serious objection from several members that he is an > > athiest > > > > who > > > > > > > cannot be the moderator of a jyotish group which > believes > > in > > > > > god, > > > > > > or > > > > > > > he is a dictator, or many other reasons. what a great > way > > > to > > > > > greet > > > > > > > a newly appointed moderator. the owner keeps silent on > > > these > > > > > > > observations. > > > > > > > 5. when several people object to the appointment of > > > asutoshji > > > > as > > > > > a > > > > > > > moderator, he cleverly formats a poll wherein 3 out of 4 > > > > options > > > > > > are > > > > > > > given to vote FOR ashutoshji. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > all the above clearly suggest that ashutoshji will > remain > > > the > > > > > > > moderator of this group because of his alignment with > the > > > > > > > dictatorship of the group owner. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > most group members who contribute their time, money and > > > energy > > > > > in > > > > > > > reading charts and sharing knowledge (including me) are > now > > > > > afraid > > > > > > > that this moderator is ruthless and he would remail tall > > > only > > > > by > > > > > > > cutting (removing) all other members one by one. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > it fails simple common sense that these two dictators > > (owner > > > > and > > > > > > > moderator) have forgotten the very existence of an > option > > > for > > > > > them > > > > > > > of putting an erring member under moderation so that all > > his > > > > bad > > > > > > > mails will be rejected and only good mails will be > > > approved. > > > > > that > > > > > > > way also they can convey the message to the member that > all > > > his > > > > > bad > > > > > > > mails would not find place in this group. sending > volumes > > > of > > > > > > > justification for removing a member outrightly SECOND > TIME > > > IN > > > > AS > > > > > > > MANY MONTHS is a confirmation of the dictatorial > > functioning. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > the owner publicly exhibiting that he will not remove > the > > > ban > > > > on > > > > > > > bhaskarji even if 100 people ask for it because he > respects > > > the > > > > > > > moderator and THINKS that the moderator has done this > > > activity > > > > > > after > > > > > > > much thought and leaving 100% in the hands of one > moderator > > > > > suggest > > > > > > > that he is throwing the ball of power to remove or > impose > > > ban > > > > > only > > > > > > > in the hands of the moderator. this way the owner is > > > directly > > > > > > > daring the members to ask ashutoshji and not him when he > is > > > > > cleary > > > > > > > exhibiting that he will not take decision or review a > > > decision > > > > > on > > > > > > > his own and that this group is now under the iron grip > of > > > > > asutoshji > > > > > > > and not tanvirji. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > hence let ashutoshji run this group with his iron hand > and > > > > > please > > > > > > > his owner. but the message is clear. all contributing > > > > members, > > > > > > > beware. you can be removed anytime without intimation > and > > > even > > > > > if > > > > > > > hundred members ask for your reinstatement, all you get > is > > > > > volumes > > > > > > > of justfication of autocratic dictatorship. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > HERE IS THE HYPOCRICY. THE GROUP OWNER SAYS HE LIKES A > > > > > PROCEDURAL > > > > > > > BAN. HE LIKES TO INFORM THE GROUP ABOUT THE BAN IF AND > > WHEN > > > HE > > > > > > > BANS. BUT IF HIS MODERATOR DOES NOT DO THESE AND DO AS > PER > > > HIS > > > > > OWN > > > > > > > LIKING, THE OWNER ONLY RESPECTS THE MODERATOR HELPLESSLY > > > > BECAUSE > > > > > > THE > > > > > > > OWNER IS CONVEYING A MESSAGE THAT THIS MODERATOR > > (ASHUOTHJI) > > > IS > > > > > > MORE > > > > > > > POWERFUL THAN THE OWNER AND THE OWNER WILL NOT OBJECT TO > > > > > > ASUTOSHJI'S > > > > > > > DICTATORSHIP EVEN IF IT IS NOT TO THE LIKING OF THE > OWNER. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > in the last two odd years, i wrote thousand times that > this > > > > > group > > > > > > is > > > > > > > most democratic and complimented but the owner is > proving > > > > > otherwise > > > > > > > because he is supporting a dictator as moderator even > when > > > the > > > > > > > moderator does things which are not to the liking of the > > > owner. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > this is my last mail on this dictatorial moderator and > the > > > 100% > > > > > all > > > > > > > out open support of the owner to this moderator as it is > > > > members > > > > > > who > > > > > > > constitute this group and not one owner and one > moderator > > > and > > > > > > > majority of the members are interested in continuing to > get > > > > into > > > > > > > reading of charts and sharing of knowledge and put an > end > > to > > > > > this > > > > > > > dictatorial authority with which active contributing > > members > > > > are > > > > > > > removed ony by one. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > with best wishes and blessings > > > > > > > pandit arjun > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , "R Satish" > > > > > > > <rsatish1942@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Daer Tanvir, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I have decided not to participate in > the > > so > > > > > called > > > > > > > > poll. If only 50 people respond what decision are you > > > going > > > > to > > > > > > > take. > > > > > > > > It would be a travesty of norms to have a miniscule > > group > > > in > > > > > the > > > > > > > > polls decide without knowing the full picture. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I think you should allow emotions to > cool > > > down > > > > > > > first, > > > > > > > > restore a balance.A decision has been taken, which in > any > > > > case > > > > > is > > > > > > > > not for eternity. Review after some days.Where is the > > > hassle? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Creating pressure groups will open a > > > pandoras > > > > > box. > > > > > > I > > > > > > > > have left some groups myself where I did not agree > with > > > the > > > > > tenor > > > > > > > of > > > > > > > > discussions.Democracy provides for this action. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It has happened in some , > when > > > a > > > > > split > > > > > > > > took place,a breakaway group was formed and which the > > > > > > > > > > permits > > > > > > > > forming . > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > There are so many alernatives > available. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Best wishes. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Satish > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , "Tanvir > > > Chowdhury" > > > > > > > > <tanweera@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Prafulla Ji > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I did not set the option for revealing voter > identity > > so > > > > > that > > > > > > > > people > > > > > > > > > can feel free to vote and whatever they feel can be > > > > > reflected. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In this situation no one can see who voted for whom, > > not > > > > > even I. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I believe I did not make any mistake making Ashutosh > Ji > > > a > > > > > > > > moderator. > > > > > > > > > Still the option was kept as some of them raised the > > > > > question. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The poll will end about 2-4 days later. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > > > > > > Tanvir > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What cannot happen, can never happen. > > > > > > > > > Which is mine, is forever mine. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.jyotish-remedies.com - Vedic Astrology > > > (Jyotish) > > > > > > > > > Predictive astrology with incredibly powerful > problem > > > > > solving > > > > > > > > > remedies > > > > > > > > > Where relief and solutions are found > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , Prafulla > Gang > > > > > > > <jyotish@> > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Tanveer ji, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Poll can be configured to see - who has > voted > > > for > > > > > which > > > > > > > > > option; and when results are announced - that is > often > > > > > > disclosed > > > > > > > > as > > > > > > > > > well. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Since, you have raised a sensitive issue regarding > > > > > > > continuation > > > > > > > > of > > > > > > > > > Ashutosh as moderator - How can anyone vote freely, > > when > > > > > such > > > > > > > > > results (with member name) is known the moderator > > > himself > > > > > (or > > > > > > > when > > > > > > > > > results are announced). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The poll may not be holding confidentiality of > vote > > > for > > > > > each > > > > > > > > > member's inclination. and under the circumstances, > > needs > > > > > > > assurance > > > > > > > > > from you, as to who will have access to the > results !! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > regards / Prafulla Gang > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Kaun rota hai kisi aur ki khatir e dost, sabko > apni > > hi > > > > > kisi > > > > > > > baat > > > > > > > > > pe rona aaya. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ************************************************ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > tanweera@ > > > > > > > > > > > Sat, 16 Sep 2006 20:34:02 -0000 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The poll > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear all : > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > As there are a lot of discussions, opinions etc. > > > about > > > > > this > > > > > > > > > recent > > > > > > > > > > > ban with most of the people going against the > ban. > > I > > > > > want > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > know > > > > > > > > > > > what the majority says. Please voice your > opinion > > > > > freely. I > > > > > > > am > > > > > > > > a > > > > > > > > > > > believer of democracy, most of the times I must > > add. > > > > > (But I > > > > > > > > know > > > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > > > admit that sometimes autocracy is needed, too.) > > > Anyway. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I personally feel that Bhaskar Ji's comment was > > > > > > > irresponsible > > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > > > beyond general norms of courtesy. And if I were > > > there I > > > > > > > would > > > > > > > > > have > > > > > > > > > > > at least put him on moderation or perhaps I > would > > > ask > > > > > him to > > > > > > > > > > > apologize and if he did not then perhaps ban > him. > > > The > > > > > only > > > > > > > > thing > > > > > > > > > > > that supports him is his great contributions, > there > > > is > > > > > no > > > > > > > doubt > > > > > > > > > > > about him. And we all are grateful to him for > that. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > However we must also rememeber, as I always say, > > > doing > > > > > even > > > > > > > > > hundred > > > > > > > > > > > good deads do not permit one to do one evil. I > may > > > feed > > > > > a > > > > > > > > hungry > > > > > > > > > > > poor person to the limit of his stomach but does > it > > > > > REALLY > > > > > > > > > entitle > > > > > > > > > > > me to beat him, or to insult him, for the cost > of > > > > > feeding? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If we are to respect, and be greatful to Bhaskar > Ji > > > for > > > > > his > > > > > > > > > > > contributions, then we must same time also voice > > > > against > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > biased > > > > > > > > > > > comments that he has made. ONLY THAT IS JUSTICE. > I > > > > > > > personally > > > > > > > > was > > > > > > > > > > > very frustrated by his biased comments and we > > cannot > > > > > expect > > > > > > > > this > > > > > > > > > > > from a matured, wise, kind person who does good > to > > > > needy > > > > > > > > people. > > > > > > > > > > > Esp. on this international board where people > from > > > all > > > > > over > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > world gather. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I was informed by Ashutosh Ji that even though > > > Bhaskar > > > > > Ji > > > > > > > was > > > > > > > > > argued > > > > > > > > > > > with about his mean (Yes, I would say so.) > comments > > > he > > > > > > > > continued > > > > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > > > > stick to it and always supported his earlier > > > statement. > > > > > > > > NOTHING > > > > > > > > > can > > > > > > > > > > > be more frustrating than this, when someone > refuses > > > to > > > > > > > accept > > > > > > > > his > > > > > > > > > > > mistake. To err is human being and to accept > > mistake > > > is > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > greatness. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Even though he was banned by Ashutosh Ji without > a > > > > > warning > > > > > > or > > > > > > > > > > > precaution BUT THEN Ashutosh Ji is correct about > > his > > > > > > > statement > > > > > > > > > that > > > > > > > > > > > as Bhaskar Ji kept sticking to his comments, > what > > is > > > > the > > > > > > > point > > > > > > > > of > > > > > > > > > > > giving him another warning. He already refuses > to > > > admit > > > > > his > > > > > > > > > mistake. > > > > > > > > > > > Right? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Still, people have different defition of justice > > and > > > > > > > different > > > > > > > > > > > styles of judgement, and that is why this poll > is > > > for, > > > > > to > > > > > > > know > > > > > > > > > what > > > > > > > > > > > you think. Because each of the members of JR is > a > > > part > > > > > of > > > > > > > it, > > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > > > they all are equally important. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks for being a part of JR family. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards > > > > > > > > > > > Tanvir. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What cannot happen, can never happen. > > > > > > > > > > > Which is mine, is forever mine. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.jyotish-remedies.com - Vedic > Astrology > > > > > (Jyotish) > > > > > > > > > > > Predictive astrology with incredibly powerful > > > problem > > > > > > solving > > > > > > > > > > > remedies > > > > > > > > > > > Where relief and solutions are found > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 19, 2006 Report Share Posted September 19, 2006 Hello gentlemen, If you don't mind my jumping in here... I thought you might appreciate a few comments from a westerner who has practiced both western and eastern astrology... , "crystal pages" <jyotish_vani wrote: > > Arjun ji, > > Like I said, I am not versed in western astrology -- Jyotish has been > quite a journey by itself. However, anything I read about Western > Astrology -- books by Alan Leo, Sepharial, by Rudhyar, by Noel Tyl > and those who embraced jyotish and tropical (as in, did not close > their shutters!) have always talked about and included lunar nodes! The Nodes are used in western astrology but are generally not given the same weight and importance as in jyotish. I don't recall Alan Leo discussing the aspects of the Nodes at all. The western astrologer who does give them due weight is Reinhold Ebertin in his study of Cosmo- biology. Rudhyar, I do not recall much mention of them, and Noel Tyl I'm not that familiar with. The Church of Light in Los Angeles, CA, trained a great deal of astrologers and eschews the use of the Nodes entirely. They feel that the influence of the Nodes is show by the combination of the other planets, including the outer planets, and are unnecessary. Overall, there is not the same emphasis on the Nodal impact in western astrology as compared to the eastern, and I feel that this one of its primary shortcomings. I say this from having observed the impact of the Nodes in jyotish astrology. Nevertheless, in such writings as westerner Jan Spiller and Isabel Hickey, the Nodes are considered of great spiritual importance and related very much to karma. But the Nodes generally fall into difference houses because most western astrologers use either the Placidus or Koch system of houses. As for myself, I couldn't get away from the Placidus house system fast enough because it works best when the person is born at moderate latitudes. When a person is born in the extreme latitudes, one will see two or three signs contained within one house and the chart becomes distorted. The whole-sign houses are far superior as far as I'm concerned because the chart works no matter what latitude the person is born in. > > I have generally found Tropical-Western astrologers to be more open- > minded and embracing. But then I have known more jyotishis than > astrologers! I know you will not take this the wrong way but other > less generous participants on this forum may -- hence I say it aloud > for their clarification. Tropical-western astrologers are more open because the society they live in is not bound by the pressure of Tradition. They can afford to think outside the box and not be chastised for it as a betrayal of the ancient texts. But speaking on broad terms, they lack the technical precision of their eastern counterparts. Alan Leo was the greatest western astrologer of the past 100 years, but I've never seen anyone match his technical skill, perhaps other than Katherine DeJersey, who wrote "Destiny Times Six", one of the great examples of western astrology being used so brilliantly. Evangeline Adams was also brilliant and helped legalize astrology in Boston in a court case by reading accurately the chart of the judge's son. Then there's William Lilly who predicted the Great Fire of London on September 2, 1666 in his almanac. Eastern and western astrologers might understand each other better if they knew more about each system's successes down through history, because neither system has an absolute claim on predictive accuracy at the expense of the other. There have been great masters in both. Sincerely, Haizen Paige > I think this is one of those where we will not arrive at the finish > point soon or readily -- and with me getting ready for my course as I > mentioned yesterday, if you do not hear back from me, please do not > take it wrongly as an expression of disrespect or slight. You and I > are way beyond that worldly point of connection, unless I am grossly > mistaken! > > Warmest regards, RR > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 19, 2006 Report Share Posted September 19, 2006 dear RR ji in my best knowledge no other system which does not believe in vedic jyotish (based on hindu mythology) has endorsed or even mentioned the words rahu and ketu or even in technical words of nodes of moon. in all the books written by these authors, they mentioned the vedic jyotish and one of these western astrologer has clearly written in his website that based on the vedas written by the ancient sages in the himalayas some 5000 years ago, etc. it would be a new lesson for me if you supply any reference where without treating rahu and ketu as grahas, constellations and stars were allocated to them and dasha periods of as many as 18 and 7 years were given to them. also if there is a new dimension to read purely the nodes of one planet (no nodes for other planets?) giving results without any relation to planets purely on technical or scientific basis, it would be a great learning experience for me. recently some leading newschannels from india have stated that people in india are foolish to believe an eclipse equating with a serpent swallowing the planets and they tried to clear the myth by bringing in vedic astrologers. one of these vedic astrologers whose name is much reverred by many members in this group also mentioned that rahu and ketu are not serpents who swallow the planets but it is a simple shadow created by the obstruction of a planet in between as science informs. but the same person wrote few books in which he mentioned the stories of rahu and ketu as planets. so we may close this thread on western astrology system in which i have no knowledge. also they talk heavily on neptune, uranus and pluto about which we (i) have not read in our ancient classics. but if you talk about the vedic jyotish system, surely i would share as little as i know and love to learn as much as i can. with best wishes pandit arjun , "crystal pages" <jyotish_vani wrote: > > Arjun ji, > > Like I said, I am not versed in western astrology -- Jyotish has been > quite a journey by itself. However, anything I read about Western > Astrology -- books by Alan Leo, Sepharial, by Rudhyar, by Noel Tyl > and those who embraced jyotish and tropical (as in, did not close > their shutters!) have always talked about and included lunar nodes! > > I have generally found Tropical-Western astrologers to be more open- > minded and embracing. But then I have known more jyotishis than > astrologers! I know you will not take this the wrong way but other > less generous participants on this forum may -- hence I say it aloud > for their clarification. > > I think this is one of those where we will not arrive at the finish > point soon or readily -- and with me getting ready for my course as I > mentioned yesterday, if you do not hear back from me, please do not > take it wrongly as an expression of disrespect or slight. You and I > are way beyond that worldly point of connection, unless I am grossly > mistaken! > > Warmest regards, > > Ranjan > > > > > , "panditarjun2004" > <panditarjun2004@> wrote: > > > > dear RR ji > > > > am aware of many western astrologers who believed in rahu and ketu > > but all of them believed vedic jyotish written by hindu sages. > > > > one medieveal book which is a compilation of the vedas and the > > samhitas miss out or the author personally wish not to, it does not > > validate the existence of rahu and ketu along with the other seven > > planets as written in proper vedas and puranas. i can quote > several > > puranas which mention these nine planets. > > > > i would definitely stand educated, if you share with references > > where westerners who do not believe in vedas or vedic jyotish in > > their new styled astrology subject developed a couple of decades > > ago, have believed in rahu and ketu. surely would learn it as a > new > > lesson from you that these rahu and ketu are accepted as grahas by > > these western astrologers of others sytems who do not have any base > > on vedic jyotish built on the vedas. > > > > with best wishes > > pandit arjun > > > > > > > > , "crystal pages" > > <jyotish_vani@> wrote: > > > > > > In case anyone is still reading this thread -- > > > > > > In addition to what I wrote about lunar nodes and Varahamihira -- > > > > > > Western astrology has utilized lunar nodes (Rahu=noth, Ketu = > > south) > > > for at least last several decades if not longer. > > > > > > Rahu and ketu are not simply mythological entities, though the > > rich > > > allegories of mythologies do bring a lot of rich wisdom to > > jyotish, > > > let me assure you all! Rahu and ketu may not be bodies, but real > > > points that are created by paths of the lights! Lot has been > > written > > > about those! Hopefully someone was studying and not reading > > > selectively! > > > > > > Jyotish may lead us to spiritual realities, but this spaceship is > > > launched from planet earth (geocentric reality) and thus it has > > been > > > primarily rooted in worldly, earthly, householder, common man > > > reality! The journey will hopefully lead us to realms that must > > one > > > day be ours, but for most of us, we have still not managed to > > > supersede the "escape velocity" that will get us beyond the reach > > of > > > the worldly, earthly reality of commonplace gravity! > > > > > > I am surrounded by wise, all knowing, accomplished individuals > and > > so > > > I do not want this to turn this into yet another brick-bat > session > > > for whatever reason! > > > > > > As far as 'chemicals' are concerned, each human body I was told > > > represents chemicals that cost about 67 cents. Maybe with > > inflation, > > > they may represent a hundred rupees. So be it! The chemicals > > remain > > > behind when we die, all of us eventually and for sure! How have > we > > > used those chemicals while we were alive and given the gift by > the > > > God of our choice -- to LIVE and express HIS or HER dream! Which > > is > > > what I believe this creation and all of us puppets represent! > > > > > > RR > > > > > > , "panditarjun2004" > > > <panditarjun2004@> wrote: > > > > > > > > dear RRji > > > > > > > > let me throw more light on jyotish remedies. > > > > > > > > BPHS written by sage parashasa of vyasa lineage is a HINDU SAGE > > who > > > > explained how the grahas are DIRECTLY CORRELATED TO VARIOUS > GODS > > > and > > > > suggested various remedies of pleasing GODS AND DIETIES WHICH > > ARE > > > > ALL HINDU. even the other samhitas of the north and the nadis > > of > > > > the south are also written by the sages who all meditated for > > > > hundreds and thousands of years and worshipped various gods and > > > > goddesses under hinduism and all the remedies suggested by them > > > have > > > > direct link to hindu mythology of gods and goddesses where > > planets > > > > and stars are not seen like by balls of mud and chemicals but > > like > > > > living gods and demons. > > > > > > > > any person, be it a christian or a muslim, if he is believing, > > > > practicing and preaching VEDIC ASTROLOGY AND VEDIC JYOTISH > > > REMEDIES, > > > > it implies that he too believes and accepts hindu mythology. > > > > > > > > some astrologers (not me) try to project themselves as people > > with > > > > scientific background and say that they believe astronomy and > > not > > > > astrology. i ask a direct query to all of them. if NASA has > > not > > > > endorsed the existence of rahu and ketu as two separate > planets, > > > why > > > > these scientific rationalist so called astrologers are > > believing, > > > > practicing, preaching and selling the goods of these non > > existing > > > > planets. > > > > > > > > so, only those persons who believe these planets as gods and > > > demons, > > > > they only can PRACTICE VEDIC ASTROLOGY. the westerners who do > > not > > > > beleive in rahu and ketu have a different astrology based on > > > > astronomy and they have all support and validation to do so > > because > > > > they are not endorsing rahu and ketu. BUT ALL THOSE WHO > ENDORSE > > > AND > > > > RECOMMEND REMEDIES FOR RAHU AND KETU MUST BE BELIEVERS OF HINDU > > > > MYTHOLOGY. > > > > > > > > what is your opinion on rahu and ketu being part of only vedic > > > > astrology WHICH IS 100% BASED ON HINDU MYTHOLOGY. > > > > > > > > with best wishes > > > > pandit arjun > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 19, 2006 Report Share Posted September 19, 2006 dear friend haizen thanks for your insight which gives us some idea about the usage of nodes by western astrologers. unfortunately i have not yet started learning that system especially neptune, uranus and pluto as these days heavy usage of these planets is finding mention and i must update myself with some basic knowledge of western astrology as well as i respect each branch is good in its own way. with best wishes pandit arjun , "haizen" <haizen wrote: > > Hello gentlemen, > > If you don't mind my jumping in here... > > I thought you might appreciate a few comments from a westerner who > has practiced both western and eastern astrology... > > , "crystal pages" <jyotish_vani@> wrote: > > > > Arjun ji, > > > > Like I said, I am not versed in western astrology -- Jyotish has been > > quite a journey by itself. However, anything I read about Western > > Astrology -- books by Alan Leo, Sepharial, by Rudhyar, by Noel Tyl > > and those who embraced jyotish and tropical (as in, did not close > > their shutters!) have always talked about and included lunar nodes! > > The Nodes are used in western astrology but are generally not given > the same weight and importance as in jyotish. I don't recall Alan Leo > discussing the aspects of the Nodes at all. The western astrologer who > does give them due weight is Reinhold Ebertin in his study of Cosmo- > biology. Rudhyar, I do not recall much mention of them, and Noel Tyl > I'm not that familiar with. The Church of Light in Los Angeles, CA, > trained a great deal of astrologers and eschews the use of the Nodes > entirely. They feel that the influence of the Nodes is show by the > combination of the other planets, including the outer planets, and > are unnecessary. Overall, there is not the same emphasis on the > Nodal impact in western astrology as compared to the eastern, and > I feel that this one of its primary shortcomings. I say this from having > observed the impact of the Nodes in jyotish astrology. Nevertheless, > in such writings as westerner Jan Spiller and Isabel Hickey, the Nodes > are considered of great spiritual importance and related very much to > karma. But the Nodes generally fall into difference houses because > most western astrologers use either the Placidus or Koch system of > houses. As for myself, I couldn't get away from the Placidus house > system fast enough because it works best when the person is born > at moderate latitudes. When a person is born in the extreme > latitudes, one will see two or three signs contained within one house > and the chart becomes distorted. The whole-sign houses are far > superior as far as I'm concerned because the chart works no matter > what latitude the person is born in. > > > > I have generally found Tropical-Western astrologers to be more open- > > minded and embracing. But then I have known more jyotishis than > > astrologers! I know you will not take this the wrong way but other > > less generous participants on this forum may -- hence I say it aloud > > for their clarification. > > Tropical-western astrologers are more open because the society they > live in is not bound by the pressure of Tradition. They can afford to > think outside the box and not be chastised for it as a betrayal of > the ancient texts. But speaking on broad terms, they lack the > technical precision of their eastern counterparts. Alan Leo was > the greatest western astrologer of the past 100 years, but I've > never seen anyone match his technical skill, perhaps other than > Katherine DeJersey, who wrote "Destiny Times Six", one of the > great examples of western astrology being used so brilliantly. > Evangeline Adams was also brilliant and helped legalize astrology > in Boston in a court case by reading accurately the chart of the > judge's son. Then there's William Lilly who predicted the Great > Fire of London on September 2, 1666 in his almanac. Eastern > and western astrologers might understand each other better if > they knew more about each system's successes down through > history, because neither system has an absolute claim on predictive > accuracy at the expense of the other. There have been great masters > in both. > > Sincerely, Haizen Paige > > > I think this is one of those where we will not arrive at the finish > > point soon or readily -- and with me getting ready for my course as I > > mentioned yesterday, if you do not hear back from me, please do not > > take it wrongly as an expression of disrespect or slight. You and I > > are way beyond that worldly point of connection, unless I am grossly > > mistaken! > > > > Warmest regards, RR > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 19, 2006 Report Share Posted September 19, 2006 You? A westerner?? COME-ON! Fooling us all PUREe'd ones? -- ALL this time, SIR?? Pardon my drama, just out of sheer joy! That -- someone who REALLY knows and has experienced western astrology did choose to speak up! FINALLY!! , "haizen" <haizen wrote: > > Hello gentlemen, > > If you don't mind my jumping in here... > > I thought you might appreciate a few comments from a westerner who > has practiced both western and eastern astrology... > > , "crystal pages" <jyotish_vani@> wrote: > > > > Arjun ji, > > > > Like I said, I am not versed in western astrology -- Jyotish has been > > quite a journey by itself. However, anything I read about Western > > Astrology -- books by Alan Leo, Sepharial, by Rudhyar, by Noel Tyl > > and those who embraced jyotish and tropical (as in, did not close > > their shutters!) have always talked about and included lunar nodes! > > The Nodes are used in western astrology but are generally not given > the same weight and importance as in jyotish. I don't recall Alan Leo > discussing the aspects of the Nodes at all. The western astrologer who > does give them due weight is Reinhold Ebertin in his study of Cosmo- > biology. Rudhyar, I do not recall much mention of them, and Noel Tyl > I'm not that familiar with. The Church of Light in Los Angeles, CA, > trained a great deal of astrologers and eschews the use of the Nodes > entirely. They feel that the influence of the Nodes is show by the > combination of the other planets, including the outer planets, and > are unnecessary. Overall, there is not the same emphasis on the > Nodal impact in western astrology as compared to the eastern, and > I feel that this one of its primary shortcomings. I say this from having > observed the impact of the Nodes in jyotish astrology. Nevertheless, > in such writings as westerner Jan Spiller and Isabel Hickey, the Nodes > are considered of great spiritual importance and related very much to > karma. But the Nodes generally fall into difference houses because > most western astrologers use either the Placidus or Koch system of > houses. As for myself, I couldn't get away from the Placidus house > system fast enough because it works best when the person is born > at moderate latitudes. When a person is born in the extreme > latitudes, one will see two or three signs contained within one house > and the chart becomes distorted. The whole-sign houses are far > superior as far as I'm concerned because the chart works no matter > what latitude the person is born in. > > > > I have generally found Tropical-Western astrologers to be more open- > > minded and embracing. But then I have known more jyotishis than > > astrologers! I know you will not take this the wrong way but other > > less generous participants on this forum may -- hence I say it aloud > > for their clarification. > > Tropical-western astrologers are more open because the society they > live in is not bound by the pressure of Tradition. They can afford to > think outside the box and not be chastised for it as a betrayal of > the ancient texts. But speaking on broad terms, they lack the > technical precision of their eastern counterparts. Alan Leo was > the greatest western astrologer of the past 100 years, but I've > never seen anyone match his technical skill, perhaps other than > Katherine DeJersey, who wrote "Destiny Times Six", one of the > great examples of western astrology being used so brilliantly. > Evangeline Adams was also brilliant and helped legalize astrology > in Boston in a court case by reading accurately the chart of the > judge's son. Then there's William Lilly who predicted the Great > Fire of London on September 2, 1666 in his almanac. Eastern > and western astrologers might understand each other better if > they knew more about each system's successes down through > history, because neither system has an absolute claim on predictive > accuracy at the expense of the other. There have been great masters > in both. > > Sincerely, Haizen Paige > > > I think this is one of those where we will not arrive at the finish > > point soon or readily -- and with me getting ready for my course as I > > mentioned yesterday, if you do not hear back from me, please do not > > take it wrongly as an expression of disrespect or slight. You and I > > are way beyond that worldly point of connection, unless I am grossly > > mistaken! > > > > Warmest regards, RR > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 19, 2006 Report Share Posted September 19, 2006 Arjun ji In your reconciliatory {sp} message to Haizen I see hope! For all of us! Sometimes it behooves us to just observe and witness Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 19, 2006 Report Share Posted September 19, 2006 Dear Pandit, Nice hearing from you. If I can give you a hot tip, I recommend that you start with Alan Leo's The Art of Synthesis and his descriptions of Uranus and Neptune--so detailed and scholarly. And for the aspects to Uranus and Neptune, I recommend How to Judge a Nativity. Or you could probably just manage with the second one and his explanation of how western aspects are figured. Astrology, Karma and Transformation, by Stephen Arroyo also has excellent information on the outer planets, including the recently demoted Pluto. Then check your chart to see where the outer planets are located and whether they are in aspect with any of the traditional planets and then refer to the descriptions in these books. Prediction is not everything in western astrology; there is a great emphasis on psychology and personal growth. The best to you, Haizen , "panditarjun2004" <panditarjun2004 wrote: > > dear friend haizen > > thanks for your insight which gives us some idea about the usage of > nodes by western astrologers. unfortunately i have not yet started > learning that system especially neptune, uranus and pluto as these > days heavy usage of these planets is finding mention and i must > update myself with some basic knowledge of western astrology as well > as i respect each branch is good in its own way. > > with best wishes > pandit arjun > > , "haizen" <haizen@> wrote: > > > > Hello gentlemen, > > > > If you don't mind my jumping in here... > > > > I thought you might appreciate a few comments from a westerner who > > has practiced both western and eastern astrology... > > > > , "crystal pages" > <jyotish_vani@> wrote: > > > > > > Arjun ji, > > > > > > Like I said, I am not versed in western astrology -- Jyotish has > been > > > quite a journey by itself. However, anything I read about > Western > > > Astrology -- books by Alan Leo, Sepharial, by Rudhyar, by Noel > Tyl > > > and those who embraced jyotish and tropical (as in, did not > close > > > their shutters!) have always talked about and included lunar > nodes! > > > > The Nodes are used in western astrology but are generally not > given > > the same weight and importance as in jyotish. I don't recall Alan > Leo > > discussing the aspects of the Nodes at all. The western astrologer > who > > does give them due weight is Reinhold Ebertin in his study of > Cosmo- > > biology. Rudhyar, I do not recall much mention of them, and Noel > Tyl > > I'm not that familiar with. The Church of Light in Los Angeles, CA, > > trained a great deal of astrologers and eschews the use of the > Nodes > > entirely. They feel that the influence of the Nodes is show by the > > combination of the other planets, including the outer planets, and > > are unnecessary. Overall, there is not the same emphasis on the > > Nodal impact in western astrology as compared to the eastern, and > > I feel that this one of its primary shortcomings. I say this from > having > > observed the impact of the Nodes in jyotish astrology. > Nevertheless, > > in such writings as westerner Jan Spiller and Isabel Hickey, the > Nodes > > are considered of great spiritual importance and related very much > to > > karma. But the Nodes generally fall into difference houses because > > most western astrologers use either the Placidus or Koch system of > > houses. As for myself, I couldn't get away from the Placidus house > > system fast enough because it works best when the person is born > > at moderate latitudes. When a person is born in the extreme > > latitudes, one will see two or three signs contained within one > house > > and the chart becomes distorted. The whole-sign houses are far > > superior as far as I'm concerned because the chart works no matter > > what latitude the person is born in. > > > > > > I have generally found Tropical-Western astrologers to be more > open- > > > minded and embracing. But then I have known more jyotishis than > > > astrologers! I know you will not take this the wrong way but > other > > > less generous participants on this forum may -- hence I say it > aloud > > > for their clarification. > > > > Tropical-western astrologers are more open because the society they > > live in is not bound by the pressure of Tradition. They can afford > to > > think outside the box and not be chastised for it as a betrayal of > > the ancient texts. But speaking on broad terms, they lack the > > technical precision of their eastern counterparts. Alan Leo was > > the greatest western astrologer of the past 100 years, but I've > > never seen anyone match his technical skill, perhaps other than > > Katherine DeJersey, who wrote "Destiny Times Six", one of the > > great examples of western astrology being used so brilliantly. > > Evangeline Adams was also brilliant and helped legalize astrology > > in Boston in a court case by reading accurately the chart of the > > judge's son. Then there's William Lilly who predicted the Great > > Fire of London on September 2, 1666 in his almanac. Eastern > > and western astrologers might understand each other better if > > they knew more about each system's successes down through > > history, because neither system has an absolute claim on > predictive > > accuracy at the expense of the other. There have been great > masters > > in both. > > > > Sincerely, Haizen Paige > > > > > I think this is one of those where we will not arrive at the > finish > > > point soon or readily -- and with me getting ready for my course > as I > > > mentioned yesterday, if you do not hear back from me, please do > not > > > take it wrongly as an expression of disrespect or slight. You > and I > > > are way beyond that worldly point of connection, unless I am > grossly > > > mistaken! > > > > > > Warmest regards, RR > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 19, 2006 Report Share Posted September 19, 2006 Hi RR, Actually, I'm not a westerner; I'm an alien from the planet Ork. That's why I fooled you for so long. But who is more mysterious than you? "Crystal Pages" indeed! Haizen , "crystal pages" <jyotish_vani wrote: > > You? A westerner?? COME-ON! > Fooling us all PUREe'd ones? -- ALL this time, SIR?? > Pardon my drama, just out of sheer joy! That -- someone who REALLY > knows and has experienced western astrology did choose to speak up! > FINALLY!! > > > , "haizen" <haizen@> wrote: > > > > Hello gentlemen, > > > > If you don't mind my jumping in here... > > > > I thought you might appreciate a few comments from a westerner who > > has practiced both western and eastern astrology... > > > > , "crystal pages" > <jyotish_vani@> wrote: > > > > > > Arjun ji, > > > > > > Like I said, I am not versed in western astrology -- Jyotish has > been > > > quite a journey by itself. However, anything I read about Western > > > Astrology -- books by Alan Leo, Sepharial, by Rudhyar, by Noel > Tyl > > > and those who embraced jyotish and tropical (as in, did not close > > > their shutters!) have always talked about and included lunar > nodes! > > > > The Nodes are used in western astrology but are generally not given > > the same weight and importance as in jyotish. I don't recall Alan > Leo > > discussing the aspects of the Nodes at all. The western astrologer > who > > does give them due weight is Reinhold Ebertin in his study of Cosmo- > > biology. Rudhyar, I do not recall much mention of them, and Noel Tyl > > I'm not that familiar with. The Church of Light in Los Angeles, CA, > > trained a great deal of astrologers and eschews the use of the Nodes > > entirely. They feel that the influence of the Nodes is shown by the > > combination of the other planets, including the outer planets, and > > are unnecessary. Overall, there is not the same emphasis on the > > Nodal impact in western astrology as compared to the eastern, and > > I feel that this one of its primary shortcomings. I say this from > having > > observed the impact of the Nodes in jyotish astrology. Nevertheless, > > in such writings as westerner Jan Spiller and Isabel Hickey, the > Nodes > > are considered of great spiritual importance and related very much > to > > karma. But the Nodes generally fall into difference houses because > > most western astrologers use either the Placidus or Koch system of > > houses. As for myself, I couldn't get away from the Placidus house > > system fast enough because it works best when the person is born > > at moderate latitudes. When a person is born in the extreme > > latitudes, one will see two or three signs contained within one > house > > and the chart becomes distorted. The whole-sign houses are far > > superior as far as I'm concerned because the chart works no matter > > what latitude the person is born in. > > > > > > I have generally found Tropical-Western astrologers to be more > open- > > > minded and embracing. But then I have known more jyotishis than > > > astrologers! I know you will not take this the wrong way but > other > > > less generous participants on this forum may -- hence I say it > aloud > > > for their clarification. > > > > Tropical-western astrologers are more open because the society they > > live in is not bound by the pressure of Tradition. They can afford > to > > think outside the box and not be chastised for it as a betrayal of > > the ancient texts. But speaking on broad terms, they lack the > > technical precision of their eastern counterparts. Alan Leo was > > the greatest western astrologer of the past 100 years, but I've > > never seen anyone match his technical skill, perhaps other than > > Katherine DeJersey, who wrote "Destiny Times Six", one of the > > great examples of western astrology being used so brilliantly. > > Evangeline Adams was also brilliant and helped legalize astrology > > in Boston in a court case by reading accurately the chart of the > > judge's son. Then there's William Lilly who predicted the Great > > Fire of London on September 2, 1666 in his almanac. Eastern > > and western astrologers might understand each other better if > > they knew more about each system's successes down through > > history, because neither system has an absolute claim on predictive > > accuracy at the expense of the other. There have been great masters > > in both. > > > > Sincerely, Haizen Paige > > > > > I think this is one of those where we will not arrive at the > finish > > > point soon or readily -- and with me getting ready for my course > as I > > > mentioned yesterday, if you do not hear back from me, please do > not > > > take it wrongly as an expression of disrespect or slight. You and > I > > > are way beyond that worldly point of connection, unless I am > grossly > > > mistaken! > > > > > > Warmest regards, RR > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 19, 2006 Report Share Posted September 19, 2006 dear pandit arjunji, I have not read extensively like u people but however I want to share my observations. To my knowledge the temples of south india have navagraha and in tamilnadu and parts of andhra u have temples for each navagraha which includes rahu and keth. In tamil nadu even a small size temple will have navagraha which includes rahu and ketu. But in north, west or east of India I doubt whether the temples have this navagraha and also do they have separate temples for each planet. If it is not there then astrologers from south india of yesteryears would have recogonised these nodes as planets whereas in other parts of our country they wouldnt have given importance. I request u can clarify in these areas. with good wishes, k.gopu Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 22, 2006 Report Share Posted September 22, 2006 Hi, Just my 2 cents. Aren't we mixing two different systems of Astrology namely Western and Vedic. It is better to keep them separate. Regards, Neeraj haizen <haizen (AT) haizen (DOT) com> wrote: Hello gentlemen, If you don't mind my jumping in here... I thought you might appreciate a few comments from a westerner who has practiced both western and eastern astrology... , "crystal pages" <jyotish_vani wrote: > > Arjun ji, > > Like I said, I am not versed in western astrology -- Jyotish has been > quite a journey by itself. However, anything I read about Western > Astrology -- books by Alan Leo, Sepharial, by Rudhyar, by Noel Tyl > and those who embraced jyotish and tropical (as in, did not close > their shutters!) have always talked about and included lunar nodes! The Nodes are used in western astrology but are generally not given the same weight and importance as in jyotish. I don't recall Alan Leo discussing the aspects of the Nodes at all. The western astrologer who does give them due weight is Reinhold Ebertin in his study of Cosmo- biology. Rudhyar, I do not recall much mention of them, and Noel Tyl I'm not that familiar with. The Church of Light in Los Angeles, CA, trained a great deal of astrologers and eschews the use of the Nodes entirely. They feel that the influence of the Nodes is show by the combination of the other planets, including the outer planets, and are unnecessary. Overall, there is not the same emphasis on the Nodal impact in western astrology as compared to the eastern, and I feel that this one of its primary shortcomings. I say this from having observed the impact of the Nodes in jyotish astrology. Nevertheless, in such writings as westerner Jan Spiller and Isabel Hickey, the Nodes are considered of great spiritual importance and related very much to karma. But the Nodes generally fall into difference houses because most western astrologers use either the Placidus or Koch system of houses. As for myself, I couldn't get away from the Placidus house system fast enough because it works best when the person is born at moderate latitudes. When a person is born in the extreme latitudes, one will see two or three signs contained within one house and the chart becomes distorted. The whole-sign houses are far superior as far as I'm concerned because the chart works no matter what latitude the person is born in. > > I have generally found Tropical-Western astrologers to be more open- > minded and embracing. But then I have known more jyotishis than > astrologers! I know you will not take this the wrong way but other > less generous participants on this forum may -- hence I say it aloud > for their clarification. Tropical-western astrologers are more open because the society they live in is not bound by the pressure of Tradition. They can afford to think outside the box and not be chastised for it as a betrayal of the ancient texts. But speaking on broad terms, they lack the technical precision of their eastern counterparts. Alan Leo was the greatest western astrologer of the past 100 years, but I've never seen anyone match his technical skill, perhaps other than Katherine DeJersey, who wrote "Destiny Times Six", one of the great examples of western astrology being used so brilliantly. Evangeline Adams was also brilliant and helped legalize astrology in Boston in a court case by reading accurately the chart of the judge's son. Then there's William Lilly who predicted the Great Fire of London on September 2, 1666 in his almanac. Eastern and western astrologers might understand each other better if they knew more about each system's successes down through history, because neither system has an absolute claim on predictive accuracy at the expense of the other. There have been great masters in both. Sincerely, Haizen Paige > I think this is one of those where we will not arrive at the finish > point soon or readily -- and with me getting ready for my course as I > mentioned yesterday, if you do not hear back from me, please do not > take it wrongly as an expression of disrespect or slight. You and I > are way beyond that worldly point of connection, unless I am grossly > mistaken! > > Warmest regards, RR > Get your email and more, right on the new .com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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