Guest guest Posted September 19, 2006 Report Share Posted September 19, 2006 Dear Arjun ji, Please comment directly on Varahamihira and what I wrote about him. Thanks and warmest regards, as always. Ranjan , "panditarjun2004" <panditarjun2004 wrote: > > dear RR ji > > my submission of FACTS IS ONLY ON VEDIC ASTROLOGY, VALIDATION OF > RAHU AND KETU ONLY IN HINDU MYTHOLOGY, REJECTION OF RAHU AND KETU IN > ALL OTHER SYSTEMS OF ASTROLOGY IN THE WEST. > > a person who practice vedic astroogy and pinpoint a problem to rahu > or ketu has to first believe in rahu and ketu which are mythical and > non existing according to the west and also the scientific > community. astronomy also has no validation of rahu and ketu. > > in the west, uranus, neptune and pluto are referred most and they > are attributed to so many positive and negative results of a native > which are not at all considered in the vedic jyotish. > > my only submission is that if a person is preaching and practicing > vedic jyotish, HE MUST BE BELIEVING AND ACCEPTING HINDU MYTHOLOGY, > otherwise what he says has no validation. if you ask myself, yes i > believe hindu mythology and vedic astrology built entirely on hindu > mythology. i know many westerners like gauranga das of > brihaspati.com who believed, accepted, learnt, practised and > preached vedic astrology and i too learnt a few interesting lessons > from his website www.brihaspati.net > > so my observation BASED ON FACTS is that one can practice vedic > jyotish containing rahu and ketu only if he believes hindu > mythology, otherwise he has no validation to support his service in > the name of vedic jyotish. > > with best wishes > pandit arjun > > , "crystal pages" > <jyotish_vani@> wrote: > > > > Dear Arjun ji, > > > > It is sad that we are talking to each other like this, in this > mien > > which may smack of confrontation to those who would love to run > with > > that! There is a lot of politics and politicians that have invaded > > astrology, particularly jyotish. But we must point that out and > then > > not dwell on that and carry on our conversation and sharing, at > least > > just the two of us who have been brought close by Destiny that > goes > > beyond just jyotish! > > > > The following I submit for your kind and wise consideration: > > > > I am glad that you are not limiting the usefulness of > > jyotish/astrology just to those who believe in Hindu Gods but GOD! > If > > a true atheist does come upon astrology (I respectfully submit > that > > even for the scientist (much hated, ill understood on this forum > and > > for that matter in the jyotish context even in revered journals > and > > magazines on astrology earlier!), NATURE IS THE GOD, even if not > > stated in those terms, the exact three letter word, that is!). > > > > And, about rahu and ketu -- the last time I studied Brihatjatakam > by > > Sage Varahamihira, there was no mention of rahu and ketu, therein! > > Jyotish for most rests on three pillars: Parashara, Varahamihira > and > > Jaimini! > > > > Just because the lunar nodes were not mentioned or widely > discussed > > in Brihajjataka, I would not hastily take it off my Jyotish puja- > > sthal! > > > > RR > > > > , "panditarjun2004" > > <panditarjun2004@> wrote: > > > > > > dear RRji > > > > > > let me throw more light on jyotish remedies. > > > > > > BPHS written by sage parashasa of vyasa lineage is a HINDU SAGE > who > > > explained how the grahas are DIRECTLY CORRELATED TO VARIOUS GODS > > and > > > suggested various remedies of pleasing GODS AND DIETIES WHICH > ARE > > > ALL HINDU. even the other samhitas of the north and the nadis > of > > > the south are also written by the sages who all meditated for > > > hundreds and thousands of years and worshipped various gods and > > > goddesses under hinduism and all the remedies suggested by them > > have > > > direct link to hindu mythology of gods and goddesses where > planets > > > and stars are not seen like by balls of mud and chemicals but > like > > > living gods and demons. > > > > > > any person, be it a christian or a muslim, if he is believing, > > > practicing and preaching VEDIC ASTROLOGY AND VEDIC JYOTISH > > REMEDIES, > > > it implies that he too believes and accepts hindu mythology. > > > > > > some astrologers (not me) try to project themselves as people > with > > > scientific background and say that they believe astronomy and > not > > > astrology. i ask a direct query to all of them. if NASA has > not > > > endorsed the existence of rahu and ketu as two separate planets, > > why > > > these scientific rationalist so called astrologers are > believing, > > > practicing, preaching and selling the goods of these non > existing > > > planets. > > > > > > so, only those persons who believe these planets as gods and > > demons, > > > they only can PRACTICE VEDIC ASTROLOGY. the westerners who do > not > > > beleive in rahu and ketu have a different astrology based on > > > astronomy and they have all support and validation to do so > because > > > they are not endorsing rahu and ketu. BUT ALL THOSE WHO ENDORSE > > AND > > > RECOMMEND REMEDIES FOR RAHU AND KETU MUST BE BELIEVERS OF HINDU > > > MYTHOLOGY. > > > > > > what is your opinion on rahu and ketu being part of only vedic > > > astrology WHICH IS 100% BASED ON HINDU MYTHOLOGY. > > > > > > with best wishes > > > pandit arjun > > > > > > , "crystal pages" > > > <jyotish_vani@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Arjun ji, > > > > > > > > I understand the points raised by you. I have rubbed many > members > > > the > > > > wrong way in the past -- that is my prarabdha. > > > > > > > > When Kumar ji was banned, I was the first one to respond here > > > > publicly and so did others, and Tanvir reversed his decision > on > > > very > > > > sane and rational grounds very OPENLY and transparently! > > > > > > > > I have had difficult conversations with Kumarji on this board, > > but > > > > the beauty in his soul was never lost upon me. Call me biased! > > > > > > > > I have not commented on the present 'drama' or MAYA if you > want > > to > > > > call it! Because I do not feel that I can connect to it. > > > > > > > > Religious angle to astrology is like subtitles in a film! It > may > > > make > > > > the film and theme and dialogue more understandable, but it > does > > > not > > > > take over the original film! > > > > > > > > Astrology is pure, like an infant. It has no theme and > language > > > and > > > > agenda! It is just supposed to bring instant love to the > heart! > > > Who > > > > ever really understood the gurgling and cooing of an infant > (even > > > the > > > > mother!), but who could ever resist picking it up? > > > > > > > > RR > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , "panditarjun2004" > > > > <panditarjun2004@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > dear RRji > > > > > > > > > > in the net, the space is offered freely by and > whosoever > > > has > > > > > created these groups have given a platform to likeminded > people > > > to > > > > > come and share their views and opinions freely and also > discuss > > > the > > > > > subject of astrology, remedies and learn it by asking > questions > > > as > > > > > well as also give free readings, time permitting. tanvirji > has > > > > been > > > > > most democratic by giving 100% automatic approval for all > > > members > > > > > which is his hallmark till date. however due to his > > > preoccupation > > > > > with his own life and having less time to answer queries in > > this > > > > > group, few members like us have made this group like our own > > > group > > > > > and have started giving our best contributions by sparing > our > > > time, > > > > > money and energy. true ashutoshji is also a great member > and > > > great > > > > > contributor like you and me. but i emphasised in several > mails > > > > that > > > > > VEDIC JYOTISH OR ASTROLOGY IS INEXPLICABLY INTERTWINED WITH > > > HINDU > > > > > (NOT OTHER RELIGIONS) MYTHOLOGY AND HENCE A PERSON WHO DOES > NOT > > > > > BELIEVE IN GOD, CANNOT HEAD THIS GROUP OF JYOTISH REMEDIES > > WHICH > > > > > BELIEVES IN GOD. Tanviji is a great astrologer and he > beleives > > > in > > > > > god. > > > > > > > > > > you and i are the first two individuals who got the bad > moody > > > > > expression of words by bhaskarji but both have seen the > > > potential > > > > > knowledge and contributions he could make to the group and > have > > > > > accommodated him and he brought happiness and relief to > several > > > > > querents. i advised him publicly as well as in private not > to > > > let > > > > > his moods overtake his expressions and show maturity by > writing > > > > > positive polished language which, unfortunately he could not > > not > > > > > improve upon and am sure he will improve as he got two > LEARNING > > > > > EXPERIENCES by getting banned from the two largest astro > groups > > > on > > > > > the web. > > > > > > > > > > one thing i can conclude firmly is that the way tanvirji is > > > > > expressing emphatically that ashutoshji is now the new > > moderator > > > > who > > > > > got 100% rights and powers to do any thing as ashutosh feels > > fit > > > > and > > > > > that tanvirji dont interfere even if ashutosh does things > which > > > are > > > > > not to the linking of tanvirji or most members of this > group, > > is > > > a > > > > > clear indication of putting the ball in the court of > ashutoshji > > > and > > > > > DARING THE BOLD MEMBERS TO VENTURE TO ASK ASHUTOSHJI > DIRECTLY > > > AND > > > > > GET BANNED BY HIM. > > > > > > > > > > you and i are risking this as we are sure that tanvirji > would > > > > review > > > > > his decision and ashutoshji would also find the MORAL > GROUNDS > > > not > > > > in > > > > > his favour when several members are openly objecting to his > > > > > moderatorship instantly after his appointment. if he wants > to > > > > stick > > > > > to his post turning a blind eye to all these objections, let > > > > members > > > > > judge him. > > > > > > > > > > as regards you and i are concerned, we believe in free and > fair > > > > > expression of knowledge as well as free sharing of knowledge > > and > > > > > also give and expect the same freedome and expression from > > > others. > > > > > > > > > > hope better sense prevails and tanvirji reviews his decision > > and > > > > > ashutoshji too finds some moral validity for his continuing > as > > > > > moderator. > > > > > > > > > > with best wishes > > > > > pandit arjun > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , "crystal pages" > > > > > <jyotish_vani@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Arjun ji, > > > > > > > > > > > > After creating and nurturing this beautiful garden of > > > astrology > > > > > for > > > > > > some years and having built up membership, as mentioned a > few > > > > > times, > > > > > > that vyes in numbers with the only other similar group > which > > > has > > > > > an > > > > > > institution behind it as we all know (and this is not a > > > criticism > > > > > of > > > > > > another group, let me say outright!), what would be the > > > pragmatic > > > > > > reason for Tanvir to create a situation which has the > > > potential > > > > > for > > > > > > destroying his creation? > > > > > > > > > > > > I am merely expressing my perplexity as an ordinary member > > > here. > > > > > > > > > > > > Unless the child was misbehaving beyond his own good, why > > > would a > > > > > > parent punish him, if that is what this amounts to? > > > > > > > > > > > > RR > > > > > > > > > > > > , "panditarjun2004" > > > > > > <panditarjun2004@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > dear friends > > > > > > > > > > > > > > as brother satishji rightly put, the way this poll is > > > > > constructed, > > > > > > > it is a clever ploy to meet both the objectives of the > > group > > > > > > OWNER. > > > > > > > objective one is that he wants ashutosh as the dictator > > > > > moderator > > > > > > of > > > > > > > this group at any cost, so he gave 3 out of 4 options to > > > vote > > > > > for > > > > > > > ashutosh being the moderator. the second objective is > that > > > > > since > > > > > > > many people are asking for reinstatement of bhaskarji, > he > > > gave > > > > 3 > > > > > > out > > > > > > > of 4 options to remove the ban on bhaskarji, so that > > > bhaskarji > > > > > can > > > > > > > be reinstated based on this majority number. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > now, here is the catch. by this poll, the owner is > clearly > > > > > > > conveying a message that he will do the following, as he > > has > > > > > done > > > > > > > earlier: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1. if he receives few complaints in his personal mail > > > against > > > > > one > > > > > > > member, he removes them autocratically like a dictator > but > > > he > > > > > has > > > > > > > the power to review his decision, if members give > feedback. > > > > > > > 2. he appoints such a moderator who empathises his way > of > > > > > removing > > > > > > > an active member and improves the dictatorship by not > even > > > > > telling > > > > > > > the group about it. > > > > > > > 3. he supports such moderator's acts publicly and > reconfirm > > > > that > > > > > > > dictatorial rule is here to stay. > > > > > > > 4. instantly after the appointment of ashutosh as > > moderator, > > > he > > > > > > gets > > > > > > > serious objection from several members that he is an > > athiest > > > > who > > > > > > > cannot be the moderator of a jyotish group which > believes > > in > > > > > god, > > > > > > or > > > > > > > he is a dictator, or many other reasons. what a great > way > > > to > > > > > greet > > > > > > > a newly appointed moderator. the owner keeps silent on > > > these > > > > > > > observations. > > > > > > > 5. when several people object to the appointment of > > > asutoshji > > > > as > > > > > a > > > > > > > moderator, he cleverly formats a poll wherein 3 out of 4 > > > > options > > > > > > are > > > > > > > given to vote FOR ashutoshji. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > all the above clearly suggest that ashutoshji will > remain > > > the > > > > > > > moderator of this group because of his alignment with > the > > > > > > > dictatorship of the group owner. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > most group members who contribute their time, money and > > > energy > > > > > in > > > > > > > reading charts and sharing knowledge (including me) are > now > > > > > afraid > > > > > > > that this moderator is ruthless and he would remail tall > > > only > > > > by > > > > > > > cutting (removing) all other members one by one. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > it fails simple common sense that these two dictators > > (owner > > > > and > > > > > > > moderator) have forgotten the very existence of an > option > > > for > > > > > them > > > > > > > of putting an erring member under moderation so that all > > his > > > > bad > > > > > > > mails will be rejected and only good mails will be > > > approved. > > > > > that > > > > > > > way also they can convey the message to the member that > all > > > his > > > > > bad > > > > > > > mails would not find place in this group. sending > volumes > > > of > > > > > > > justification for removing a member outrightly SECOND > TIME > > > IN > > > > AS > > > > > > > MANY MONTHS is a confirmation of the dictatorial > > functioning. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > the owner publicly exhibiting that he will not remove > the > > > ban > > > > on > > > > > > > bhaskarji even if 100 people ask for it because he > respects > > > the > > > > > > > moderator and THINKS that the moderator has done this > > > activity > > > > > > after > > > > > > > much thought and leaving 100% in the hands of one > moderator > > > > > suggest > > > > > > > that he is throwing the ball of power to remove or > impose > > > ban > > > > > only > > > > > > > in the hands of the moderator. this way the owner is > > > directly > > > > > > > daring the members to ask ashutoshji and not him when he > is > > > > > cleary > > > > > > > exhibiting that he will not take decision or review a > > > decision > > > > > on > > > > > > > his own and that this group is now under the iron grip > of > > > > > asutoshji > > > > > > > and not tanvirji. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > hence let ashutoshji run this group with his iron hand > and > > > > > please > > > > > > > his owner. but the message is clear. all contributing > > > > members, > > > > > > > beware. you can be removed anytime without intimation > and > > > even > > > > > if > > > > > > > hundred members ask for your reinstatement, all you get > is > > > > > volumes > > > > > > > of justfication of autocratic dictatorship. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > HERE IS THE HYPOCRICY. THE GROUP OWNER SAYS HE LIKES A > > > > > PROCEDURAL > > > > > > > BAN. HE LIKES TO INFORM THE GROUP ABOUT THE BAN IF AND > > WHEN > > > HE > > > > > > > BANS. BUT IF HIS MODERATOR DOES NOT DO THESE AND DO AS > PER > > > HIS > > > > > OWN > > > > > > > LIKING, THE OWNER ONLY RESPECTS THE MODERATOR HELPLESSLY > > > > BECAUSE > > > > > > THE > > > > > > > OWNER IS CONVEYING A MESSAGE THAT THIS MODERATOR > > (ASHUOTHJI) > > > IS > > > > > > MORE > > > > > > > POWERFUL THAN THE OWNER AND THE OWNER WILL NOT OBJECT TO > > > > > > ASUTOSHJI'S > > > > > > > DICTATORSHIP EVEN IF IT IS NOT TO THE LIKING OF THE > OWNER. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > in the last two odd years, i wrote thousand times that > this > > > > > group > > > > > > is > > > > > > > most democratic and complimented but the owner is > proving > > > > > otherwise > > > > > > > because he is supporting a dictator as moderator even > when > > > the > > > > > > > moderator does things which are not to the liking of the > > > owner. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > this is my last mail on this dictatorial moderator and > the > > > 100% > > > > > all > > > > > > > out open support of the owner to this moderator as it is > > > > members > > > > > > who > > > > > > > constitute this group and not one owner and one > moderator > > > and > > > > > > > majority of the members are interested in continuing to > get > > > > into > > > > > > > reading of charts and sharing of knowledge and put an > end > > to > > > > > this > > > > > > > dictatorial authority with which active contributing > > members > > > > are > > > > > > > removed ony by one. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > with best wishes and blessings > > > > > > > pandit arjun > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , "R Satish" > > > > > > > <rsatish1942@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Daer Tanvir, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I have decided not to participate in > the > > so > > > > > called > > > > > > > > poll. If only 50 people respond what decision are you > > > going > > > > to > > > > > > > take. > > > > > > > > It would be a travesty of norms to have a miniscule > > group > > > in > > > > > the > > > > > > > > polls decide without knowing the full picture. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I think you should allow emotions to > cool > > > down > > > > > > > first, > > > > > > > > restore a balance.A decision has been taken, which in > any > > > > case > > > > > is > > > > > > > > not for eternity. Review after some days.Where is the > > > hassle? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Creating pressure groups will open a > > > pandoras > > > > > box. > > > > > > I > > > > > > > > have left some groups myself where I did not agree > with > > > the > > > > > tenor > > > > > > > of > > > > > > > > discussions.Democracy provides for this action. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It has happened in some , > when > > > a > > > > > split > > > > > > > > took place,a breakaway group was formed and which the > > > > > > > > > > permits > > > > > > > > forming . > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > There are so many alernatives > available. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Best wishes. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Satish > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , "Tanvir > > > Chowdhury" > > > > > > > > <tanweera@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Prafulla Ji > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I did not set the option for revealing voter > identity > > so > > > > > that > > > > > > > > people > > > > > > > > > can feel free to vote and whatever they feel can be > > > > > reflected. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In this situation no one can see who voted for whom, > > not > > > > > even I. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I believe I did not make any mistake making Ashutosh > Ji > > > a > > > > > > > > moderator. > > > > > > > > > Still the option was kept as some of them raised the > > > > > question. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The poll will end about 2-4 days later. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > > > > > > Tanvir > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What cannot happen, can never happen. > > > > > > > > > Which is mine, is forever mine. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.jyotish-remedies.com - Vedic Astrology > > > (Jyotish) > > > > > > > > > Predictive astrology with incredibly powerful > problem > > > > > solving > > > > > > > > > remedies > > > > > > > > > Where relief and solutions are found > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , Prafulla > Gang > > > > > > > <jyotish@> > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Tanveer ji, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Poll can be configured to see - who has > voted > > > for > > > > > which > > > > > > > > > option; and when results are announced - that is > often > > > > > > disclosed > > > > > > > > as > > > > > > > > > well. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Since, you have raised a sensitive issue regarding > > > > > > > continuation > > > > > > > > of > > > > > > > > > Ashutosh as moderator - How can anyone vote freely, > > when > > > > > such > > > > > > > > > results (with member name) is known the moderator > > > himself > > > > > (or > > > > > > > when > > > > > > > > > results are announced). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The poll may not be holding confidentiality of > vote > > > for > > > > > each > > > > > > > > > member's inclination. and under the circumstances, > > needs > > > > > > > assurance > > > > > > > > > from you, as to who will have access to the > results !! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > regards / Prafulla Gang > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Kaun rota hai kisi aur ki khatir e dost, sabko > apni > > hi > > > > > kisi > > > > > > > baat > > > > > > > > > pe rona aaya. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ************************************************ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > tanweera@ > > > > > > > > > > > Sat, 16 Sep 2006 20:34:02 -0000 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The poll > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear all : > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > As there are a lot of discussions, opinions etc. > > > about > > > > > this > > > > > > > > > recent > > > > > > > > > > > ban with most of the people going against the > ban. > > I > > > > > want > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > know > > > > > > > > > > > what the majority says. Please voice your > opinion > > > > > freely. I > > > > > > > am > > > > > > > > a > > > > > > > > > > > believer of democracy, most of the times I must > > add. > > > > > (But I > > > > > > > > know > > > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > > > admit that sometimes autocracy is needed, too.) > > > Anyway. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I personally feel that Bhaskar Ji's comment was > > > > > > > irresponsible > > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > > > beyond general norms of courtesy. And if I were > > > there I > > > > > > > would > > > > > > > > > have > > > > > > > > > > > at least put him on moderation or perhaps I > would > > > ask > > > > > him to > > > > > > > > > > > apologize and if he did not then perhaps ban > him. > > > The > > > > > only > > > > > > > > thing > > > > > > > > > > > that supports him is his great contributions, > there > > > is > > > > > no > > > > > > > doubt > > > > > > > > > > > about him. And we all are grateful to him for > that. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > However we must also rememeber, as I always say, > > > doing > > > > > even > > > > > > > > > hundred > > > > > > > > > > > good deads do not permit one to do one evil. I > may > > > feed > > > > > a > > > > > > > > hungry > > > > > > > > > > > poor person to the limit of his stomach but does > it > > > > > REALLY > > > > > > > > > entitle > > > > > > > > > > > me to beat him, or to insult him, for the cost > of > > > > > feeding? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If we are to respect, and be greatful to Bhaskar > Ji > > > for > > > > > his > > > > > > > > > > > contributions, then we must same time also voice > > > > against > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > biased > > > > > > > > > > > comments that he has made. ONLY THAT IS JUSTICE. > I > > > > > > > personally > > > > > > > > was > > > > > > > > > > > very frustrated by his biased comments and we > > cannot > > > > > expect > > > > > > > > this > > > > > > > > > > > from a matured, wise, kind person who does good > to > > > > needy > > > > > > > > people. > > > > > > > > > > > Esp. on this international board where people > from > > > all > > > > > over > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > world gather. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I was informed by Ashutosh Ji that even though > > > Bhaskar > > > > > Ji > > > > > > > was > > > > > > > > > argued > > > > > > > > > > > with about his mean (Yes, I would say so.) > comments > > > he > > > > > > > > continued > > > > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > > > > stick to it and always supported his earlier > > > statement. > > > > > > > > NOTHING > > > > > > > > > can > > > > > > > > > > > be more frustrating than this, when someone > refuses > > > to > > > > > > > accept > > > > > > > > his > > > > > > > > > > > mistake. To err is human being and to accept > > mistake > > > is > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > greatness. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Even though he was banned by Ashutosh Ji without > a > > > > > warning > > > > > > or > > > > > > > > > > > precaution BUT THEN Ashutosh Ji is correct about > > his > > > > > > > statement > > > > > > > > > that > > > > > > > > > > > as Bhaskar Ji kept sticking to his comments, > what > > is > > > > the > > > > > > > point > > > > > > > > of > > > > > > > > > > > giving him another warning. He already refuses > to > > > admit > > > > > his > > > > > > > > > mistake. > > > > > > > > > > > Right? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Still, people have different defition of justice > > and > > > > > > > different > > > > > > > > > > > styles of judgement, and that is why this poll > is > > > for, > > > > > to > > > > > > > know > > > > > > > > > what > > > > > > > > > > > you think. Because each of the members of JR is > a > > > part > > > > > of > > > > > > > it, > > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > > > they all are equally important. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks for being a part of JR family. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards > > > > > > > > > > > Tanvir. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What cannot happen, can never happen. > > > > > > > > > > > Which is mine, is forever mine. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.jyotish-remedies.com - Vedic > Astrology > > > > > (Jyotish) > > > > > > > > > > > Predictive astrology with incredibly powerful > > > problem > > > > > > solving > > > > > > > > > > > remedies > > > > > > > > > > > Where relief and solutions are found > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 19, 2006 Report Share Posted September 19, 2006 dear RR ji thanks for this direct query and i here give my direct answer. in fact am glad that you asked this query because i too heard in this or other groups earlier by eminent astrologers who loosely mentioned that varahamihira has not mentioned rahu and ketu in his classic brihat jatakam. i am sure you are basing your observation only on the observations made by these people and not yourself after reading brihat jatakam and i remember PERFECTLY the mention of rahu and ketu in various places. am right now camping in delhi and could not lay hands on this book but here i below i mention where rahu and ketu find mention as planets. in the beginning of the chapter he gives all the names of the nine planets in which varahamihira says that agu, asura and some other name as synonyms of rahu and sikhi as synonym of ketu. in another chapter where directions (dishas) were attributed, he mentions the list of sun, venus, mars, rahu, saturn, moon, mercury and jupiter for the eight directions. in another chapter, varahamihira says that if sun and rahu are there in the langa, the native will be blind and if moon and rahu are there in the lagna, the native will suffer from devils. once back in my library, i will also give you the sloka numbers and furnish the slokas and their translations to prove the mention of rahu and ketu by varahamihira in brihat jatakam. RRji, i really appreciate such opportunites like these given by you when you ask direct queries on astro classics as it gives me an opportunity to dispel some myths going on rounds on the net becuase, if one person mentions this myth, several others who read it blindly pass on this myth to others without verifying the facts themselves. with best wishes pandit arjun , "crystal pages" <jyotish_vani wrote: > > Dear Arjun ji, > > Please comment directly on Varahamihira and what I wrote about him. > > Thanks and warmest regards, as always. > > Ranjan > > , "panditarjun2004" > <panditarjun2004@> wrote: > > > > dear RR ji > > > > my submission of FACTS IS ONLY ON VEDIC ASTROLOGY, VALIDATION OF > > RAHU AND KETU ONLY IN HINDU MYTHOLOGY, REJECTION OF RAHU AND KETU > IN > > ALL OTHER SYSTEMS OF ASTROLOGY IN THE WEST. > > > > a person who practice vedic astroogy and pinpoint a problem to rahu > > or ketu has to first believe in rahu and ketu which are mythical > and > > non existing according to the west and also the scientific > > community. astronomy also has no validation of rahu and ketu. > > > > in the west, uranus, neptune and pluto are referred most and they > > are attributed to so many positive and negative results of a native > > which are not at all considered in the vedic jyotish. > > > > my only submission is that if a person is preaching and practicing > > vedic jyotish, HE MUST BE BELIEVING AND ACCEPTING HINDU MYTHOLOGY, > > otherwise what he says has no validation. if you ask myself, yes i > > believe hindu mythology and vedic astrology built entirely on hindu > > mythology. i know many westerners like gauranga das of > > brihaspati.com who believed, accepted, learnt, practised and > > preached vedic astrology and i too learnt a few interesting lessons > > from his website www.brihaspati.net > > > > so my observation BASED ON FACTS is that one can practice vedic > > jyotish containing rahu and ketu only if he believes hindu > > mythology, otherwise he has no validation to support his service in > > the name of vedic jyotish. > > > > with best wishes > > pandit arjun > > > > , "crystal pages" > > <jyotish_vani@> wrote: > > > > > > Dear Arjun ji, > > > > > > It is sad that we are talking to each other like this, in this > > mien > > > which may smack of confrontation to those who would love to run > > with > > > that! There is a lot of politics and politicians that have > invaded > > > astrology, particularly jyotish. But we must point that out and > > then > > > not dwell on that and carry on our conversation and sharing, at > > least > > > just the two of us who have been brought close by Destiny that > > goes > > > beyond just jyotish! > > > > > > The following I submit for your kind and wise consideration: > > > > > > I am glad that you are not limiting the usefulness of > > > jyotish/astrology just to those who believe in Hindu Gods but > GOD! > > If > > > a true atheist does come upon astrology (I respectfully submit > > that > > > even for the scientist (much hated, ill understood on this forum > > and > > > for that matter in the jyotish context even in revered journals > > and > > > magazines on astrology earlier!), NATURE IS THE GOD, even if not > > > stated in those terms, the exact three letter word, that is!). > > > > > > And, about rahu and ketu -- the last time I studied Brihatjatakam > > by > > > Sage Varahamihira, there was no mention of rahu and ketu, > therein! > > > Jyotish for most rests on three pillars: Parashara, Varahamihira > > and > > > Jaimini! > > > > > > Just because the lunar nodes were not mentioned or widely > > discussed > > > in Brihajjataka, I would not hastily take it off my Jyotish puja- > > > sthal! > > > > > > RR > > > > > > , "panditarjun2004" > > > <panditarjun2004@> wrote: > > > > > > > > dear RRji > > > > > > > > let me throw more light on jyotish remedies. > > > > > > > > BPHS written by sage parashasa of vyasa lineage is a HINDU SAGE > > who > > > > explained how the grahas are DIRECTLY CORRELATED TO VARIOUS > GODS > > > and > > > > suggested various remedies of pleasing GODS AND DIETIES WHICH > > ARE > > > > ALL HINDU. even the other samhitas of the north and the nadis > > of > > > > the south are also written by the sages who all meditated for > > > > hundreds and thousands of years and worshipped various gods and > > > > goddesses under hinduism and all the remedies suggested by them > > > have > > > > direct link to hindu mythology of gods and goddesses where > > planets > > > > and stars are not seen like by balls of mud and chemicals but > > like > > > > living gods and demons. > > > > > > > > any person, be it a christian or a muslim, if he is believing, > > > > practicing and preaching VEDIC ASTROLOGY AND VEDIC JYOTISH > > > REMEDIES, > > > > it implies that he too believes and accepts hindu mythology. > > > > > > > > some astrologers (not me) try to project themselves as people > > with > > > > scientific background and say that they believe astronomy and > > not > > > > astrology. i ask a direct query to all of them. if NASA has > > not > > > > endorsed the existence of rahu and ketu as two separate > planets, > > > why > > > > these scientific rationalist so called astrologers are > > believing, > > > > practicing, preaching and selling the goods of these non > > existing > > > > planets. > > > > > > > > so, only those persons who believe these planets as gods and > > > demons, > > > > they only can PRACTICE VEDIC ASTROLOGY. the westerners who do > > not > > > > beleive in rahu and ketu have a different astrology based on > > > > astronomy and they have all support and validation to do so > > because > > > > they are not endorsing rahu and ketu. BUT ALL THOSE WHO > ENDORSE > > > AND > > > > RECOMMEND REMEDIES FOR RAHU AND KETU MUST BE BELIEVERS OF HINDU > > > > MYTHOLOGY. > > > > > > > > what is your opinion on rahu and ketu being part of only vedic > > > > astrology WHICH IS 100% BASED ON HINDU MYTHOLOGY. > > > > > > > > with best wishes > > > > pandit arjun > > > > > > > > , "crystal pages" > > > > <jyotish_vani@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Arjun ji, > > > > > > > > > > I understand the points raised by you. I have rubbed many > > members > > > > the > > > > > wrong way in the past -- that is my prarabdha. > > > > > > > > > > When Kumar ji was banned, I was the first one to respond here > > > > > publicly and so did others, and Tanvir reversed his decision > > on > > > > very > > > > > sane and rational grounds very OPENLY and transparently! > > > > > > > > > > I have had difficult conversations with Kumarji on this > board, > > > but > > > > > the beauty in his soul was never lost upon me. Call me biased! > > > > > > > > > > I have not commented on the present 'drama' or MAYA if you > > want > > > to > > > > > call it! Because I do not feel that I can connect to it. > > > > > > > > > > Religious angle to astrology is like subtitles in a film! It > > may > > > > make > > > > > the film and theme and dialogue more understandable, but it > > does > > > > not > > > > > take over the original film! > > > > > > > > > > Astrology is pure, like an infant. It has no theme and > > language > > > > and > > > > > agenda! It is just supposed to bring instant love to the > > heart! > > > > Who > > > > > ever really understood the gurgling and cooing of an infant > > (even > > > > the > > > > > mother!), but who could ever resist picking it up? > > > > > > > > > > RR > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , "panditarjun2004" > > > > > <panditarjun2004@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > dear RRji > > > > > > > > > > > > in the net, the space is offered freely by and > > whosoever > > > > has > > > > > > created these groups have given a platform to likeminded > > people > > > > to > > > > > > come and share their views and opinions freely and also > > discuss > > > > the > > > > > > subject of astrology, remedies and learn it by asking > > questions > > > > as > > > > > > well as also give free readings, time permitting. tanvirji > > has > > > > > been > > > > > > most democratic by giving 100% automatic approval for all > > > > members > > > > > > which is his hallmark till date. however due to his > > > > preoccupation > > > > > > with his own life and having less time to answer queries in > > > this > > > > > > group, few members like us have made this group like our > own > > > > group > > > > > > and have started giving our best contributions by sparing > > our > > > > time, > > > > > > money and energy. true ashutoshji is also a great member > > and > > > > great > > > > > > contributor like you and me. but i emphasised in several > > mails > > > > > that > > > > > > VEDIC JYOTISH OR ASTROLOGY IS INEXPLICABLY INTERTWINED WITH > > > > HINDU > > > > > > (NOT OTHER RELIGIONS) MYTHOLOGY AND HENCE A PERSON WHO DOES > > NOT > > > > > > BELIEVE IN GOD, CANNOT HEAD THIS GROUP OF JYOTISH REMEDIES > > > WHICH > > > > > > BELIEVES IN GOD. Tanviji is a great astrologer and he > > beleives > > > > in > > > > > > god. > > > > > > > > > > > > you and i are the first two individuals who got the bad > > moody > > > > > > expression of words by bhaskarji but both have seen the > > > > potential > > > > > > knowledge and contributions he could make to the group and > > have > > > > > > accommodated him and he brought happiness and relief to > > several > > > > > > querents. i advised him publicly as well as in private not > > to > > > > let > > > > > > his moods overtake his expressions and show maturity by > > writing > > > > > > positive polished language which, unfortunately he could > not > > > not > > > > > > improve upon and am sure he will improve as he got two > > LEARNING > > > > > > EXPERIENCES by getting banned from the two largest astro > > groups > > > > on > > > > > > the web. > > > > > > > > > > > > one thing i can conclude firmly is that the way tanvirji is > > > > > > expressing emphatically that ashutoshji is now the new > > > moderator > > > > > who > > > > > > got 100% rights and powers to do any thing as ashutosh > feels > > > fit > > > > > and > > > > > > that tanvirji dont interfere even if ashutosh does things > > which > > > > are > > > > > > not to the linking of tanvirji or most members of this > > group, > > > is > > > > a > > > > > > clear indication of putting the ball in the court of > > ashutoshji > > > > and > > > > > > DARING THE BOLD MEMBERS TO VENTURE TO ASK ASHUTOSHJI > > DIRECTLY > > > > AND > > > > > > GET BANNED BY HIM. > > > > > > > > > > > > you and i are risking this as we are sure that tanvirji > > would > > > > > review > > > > > > his decision and ashutoshji would also find the MORAL > > GROUNDS > > > > not > > > > > in > > > > > > his favour when several members are openly objecting to his > > > > > > moderatorship instantly after his appointment. if he wants > > to > > > > > stick > > > > > > to his post turning a blind eye to all these objections, > let > > > > > members > > > > > > judge him. > > > > > > > > > > > > as regards you and i are concerned, we believe in free and > > fair > > > > > > expression of knowledge as well as free sharing of > knowledge > > > and > > > > > > also give and expect the same freedome and expression from > > > > others. > > > > > > > > > > > > hope better sense prevails and tanvirji reviews his > decision > > > and > > > > > > ashutoshji too finds some moral validity for his continuing > > as > > > > > > moderator. > > > > > > > > > > > > with best wishes > > > > > > pandit arjun > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , "crystal pages" > > > > > > <jyotish_vani@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Arjun ji, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > After creating and nurturing this beautiful garden of > > > > astrology > > > > > > for > > > > > > > some years and having built up membership, as mentioned a > > few > > > > > > times, > > > > > > > that vyes in numbers with the only other similar group > > which > > > > has > > > > > > an > > > > > > > institution behind it as we all know (and this is not a > > > > criticism > > > > > > of > > > > > > > another group, let me say outright!), what would be the > > > > pragmatic > > > > > > > reason for Tanvir to create a situation which has the > > > > potential > > > > > > for > > > > > > > destroying his creation? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I am merely expressing my perplexity as an ordinary > member > > > > here. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Unless the child was misbehaving beyond his own good, why > > > > would a > > > > > > > parent punish him, if that is what this amounts to? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > RR > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , "panditarjun2004" > > > > > > > <panditarjun2004@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > dear friends > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > as brother satishji rightly put, the way this poll is > > > > > > constructed, > > > > > > > > it is a clever ploy to meet both the objectives of the > > > group > > > > > > > OWNER. > > > > > > > > objective one is that he wants ashutosh as the dictator > > > > > > moderator > > > > > > > of > > > > > > > > this group at any cost, so he gave 3 out of 4 options > to > > > > vote > > > > > > for > > > > > > > > ashutosh being the moderator. the second objective is > > that > > > > > > since > > > > > > > > many people are asking for reinstatement of bhaskarji, > > he > > > > gave > > > > > 3 > > > > > > > out > > > > > > > > of 4 options to remove the ban on bhaskarji, so that > > > > bhaskarji > > > > > > can > > > > > > > > be reinstated based on this majority number. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > now, here is the catch. by this poll, the owner is > > clearly > > > > > > > > conveying a message that he will do the following, as > he > > > has > > > > > > done > > > > > > > > earlier: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1. if he receives few complaints in his personal mail > > > > against > > > > > > one > > > > > > > > member, he removes them autocratically like a dictator > > but > > > > he > > > > > > has > > > > > > > > the power to review his decision, if members give > > feedback. > > > > > > > > 2. he appoints such a moderator who empathises his way > > of > > > > > > removing > > > > > > > > an active member and improves the dictatorship by not > > even > > > > > > telling > > > > > > > > the group about it. > > > > > > > > 3. he supports such moderator's acts publicly and > > reconfirm > > > > > that > > > > > > > > dictatorial rule is here to stay. > > > > > > > > 4. instantly after the appointment of ashutosh as > > > moderator, > > > > he > > > > > > > gets > > > > > > > > serious objection from several members that he is an > > > athiest > > > > > who > > > > > > > > cannot be the moderator of a jyotish group which > > believes > > > in > > > > > > god, > > > > > > > or > > > > > > > > he is a dictator, or many other reasons. what a great > > way > > > > to > > > > > > greet > > > > > > > > a newly appointed moderator. the owner keeps silent on > > > > these > > > > > > > > observations. > > > > > > > > 5. when several people object to the appointment of > > > > asutoshji > > > > > as > > > > > > a > > > > > > > > moderator, he cleverly formats a poll wherein 3 out of > 4 > > > > > options > > > > > > > are > > > > > > > > given to vote FOR ashutoshji. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > all the above clearly suggest that ashutoshji will > > remain > > > > the > > > > > > > > moderator of this group because of his alignment with > > the > > > > > > > > dictatorship of the group owner. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > most group members who contribute their time, money and > > > > energy > > > > > > in > > > > > > > > reading charts and sharing knowledge (including me) are > > now > > > > > > afraid > > > > > > > > that this moderator is ruthless and he would remail > tall > > > > only > > > > > by > > > > > > > > cutting (removing) all other members one by one. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > it fails simple common sense that these two dictators > > > (owner > > > > > and > > > > > > > > moderator) have forgotten the very existence of an > > option > > > > for > > > > > > them > > > > > > > > of putting an erring member under moderation so that > all > > > his > > > > > bad > > > > > > > > mails will be rejected and only good mails will be > > > > approved. > > > > > > that > > > > > > > > way also they can convey the message to the member that > > all > > > > his > > > > > > bad > > > > > > > > mails would not find place in this group. sending > > volumes > > > > of > > > > > > > > justification for removing a member outrightly SECOND > > TIME > > > > IN > > > > > AS > > > > > > > > MANY MONTHS is a confirmation of the dictatorial > > > functioning. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > the owner publicly exhibiting that he will not remove > > the > > > > ban > > > > > on > > > > > > > > bhaskarji even if 100 people ask for it because he > > respects > > > > the > > > > > > > > moderator and THINKS that the moderator has done this > > > > activity > > > > > > > after > > > > > > > > much thought and leaving 100% in the hands of one > > moderator > > > > > > suggest > > > > > > > > that he is throwing the ball of power to remove or > > impose > > > > ban > > > > > > only > > > > > > > > in the hands of the moderator. this way the owner is > > > > directly > > > > > > > > daring the members to ask ashutoshji and not him when > he > > is > > > > > > cleary > > > > > > > > exhibiting that he will not take decision or review a > > > > decision > > > > > > on > > > > > > > > his own and that this group is now under the iron grip > > of > > > > > > asutoshji > > > > > > > > and not tanvirji. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > hence let ashutoshji run this group with his iron hand > > and > > > > > > please > > > > > > > > his owner. but the message is clear. all contributing > > > > > members, > > > > > > > > beware. you can be removed anytime without intimation > > and > > > > even > > > > > > if > > > > > > > > hundred members ask for your reinstatement, all you get > > is > > > > > > volumes > > > > > > > > of justfication of autocratic dictatorship. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > HERE IS THE HYPOCRICY. THE GROUP OWNER SAYS HE LIKES A > > > > > > PROCEDURAL > > > > > > > > BAN. HE LIKES TO INFORM THE GROUP ABOUT THE BAN IF AND > > > WHEN > > > > HE > > > > > > > > BANS. BUT IF HIS MODERATOR DOES NOT DO THESE AND DO AS > > PER > > > > HIS > > > > > > OWN > > > > > > > > LIKING, THE OWNER ONLY RESPECTS THE MODERATOR > HELPLESSLY > > > > > BECAUSE > > > > > > > THE > > > > > > > > OWNER IS CONVEYING A MESSAGE THAT THIS MODERATOR > > > (ASHUOTHJI) > > > > IS > > > > > > > MORE > > > > > > > > POWERFUL THAN THE OWNER AND THE OWNER WILL NOT OBJECT > TO > > > > > > > ASUTOSHJI'S > > > > > > > > DICTATORSHIP EVEN IF IT IS NOT TO THE LIKING OF THE > > OWNER. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > in the last two odd years, i wrote thousand times that > > this > > > > > > group > > > > > > > is > > > > > > > > most democratic and complimented but the owner is > > proving > > > > > > otherwise > > > > > > > > because he is supporting a dictator as moderator even > > when > > > > the > > > > > > > > moderator does things which are not to the liking of > the > > > > owner. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > this is my last mail on this dictatorial moderator and > > the > > > > 100% > > > > > > all > > > > > > > > out open support of the owner to this moderator as it > is > > > > > members > > > > > > > who > > > > > > > > constitute this group and not one owner and one > > moderator > > > > and > > > > > > > > majority of the members are interested in continuing to > > get > > > > > into > > > > > > > > reading of charts and sharing of knowledge and put an > > end > > > to > > > > > > this > > > > > > > > dictatorial authority with which active contributing > > > members > > > > > are > > > > > > > > removed ony by one. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > with best wishes and blessings > > > > > > > > pandit arjun > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , "R Satish" > > > > > > > > <rsatish1942@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Daer Tanvir, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I have decided not to participate in > > the > > > so > > > > > > called > > > > > > > > > poll. If only 50 people respond what decision are you > > > > going > > > > > to > > > > > > > > take. > > > > > > > > > It would be a travesty of norms to have a miniscule > > > group > > > > in > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > polls decide without knowing the full picture. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I think you should allow emotions to > > cool > > > > down > > > > > > > > first, > > > > > > > > > restore a balance.A decision has been taken, which in > > any > > > > > case > > > > > > is > > > > > > > > > not for eternity. Review after some days.Where is the > > > > hassle? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Creating pressure groups will open a > > > > pandoras > > > > > > box. > > > > > > > I > > > > > > > > > have left some groups myself where I did not agree > > with > > > > the > > > > > > tenor > > > > > > > > of > > > > > > > > > discussions.Democracy provides for this action. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It has happened in some groups , > > when > > > > a > > > > > > split > > > > > > > > > took place,a breakaway group was formed and which the > > > > > > > > > > > > permits > > > > > > > > > forming . > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > There are so many alernatives > > available. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Best wishes. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Satish > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , "Tanvir > > > > Chowdhury" > > > > > > > > > <tanweera@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Prafulla Ji > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I did not set the option for revealing voter > > identity > > > so > > > > > > that > > > > > > > > > people > > > > > > > > > > can feel free to vote and whatever they feel can be > > > > > > reflected. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In this situation no one can see who voted for > whom, > > > not > > > > > > even I. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I believe I did not make any mistake making > Ashutosh > > Ji > > > > a > > > > > > > > > moderator. > > > > > > > > > > Still the option was kept as some of them raised > the > > > > > > question. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The poll will end about 2-4 days later. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > > > > > > > Tanvir > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What cannot happen, can never happen. > > > > > > > > > > Which is mine, is forever mine. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.jyotish-remedies.com - Vedic Astrology > > > > (Jyotish) > > > > > > > > > > Predictive astrology with incredibly powerful > > problem > > > > > > solving > > > > > > > > > > remedies > > > > > > > > > > Where relief and solutions are found > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , Prafulla > > Gang > > > > > > > > <jyotish@> > > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Tanveer ji, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Poll can be configured to see - who has > > voted > > > > for > > > > > > which > > > > > > > > > > option; and when results are announced - that is > > often > > > > > > > disclosed > > > > > > > > > as > > > > > > > > > > well. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Since, you have raised a sensitive issue > regarding > > > > > > > > continuation > > > > > > > > > of > > > > > > > > > > Ashutosh as moderator - How can anyone vote freely, > > > when > > > > > > such > > > > > > > > > > results (with member name) is known the moderator > > > > himself > > > > > > (or > > > > > > > > when > > > > > > > > > > results are announced). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The poll may not be holding confidentiality of > > vote > > > > for > > > > > > each > > > > > > > > > > member's inclination. and under the circumstances, > > > needs > > > > > > > > assurance > > > > > > > > > > from you, as to who will have access to the > > results !! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > regards / Prafulla Gang > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Kaun rota hai kisi aur ki khatir e dost, sabko > > apni > > > hi > > > > > > kisi > > > > > > > > baat > > > > > > > > > > pe rona aaya. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ************************************************ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > tanweera@ > > > > > > > > > > > > Sat, 16 Sep 2006 20:34:02 -0000 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The poll > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear all : > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > As there are a lot of discussions, opinions > etc. > > > > about > > > > > > this > > > > > > > > > > recent > > > > > > > > > > > > ban with most of the people going against the > > ban. > > > I > > > > > > want > > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > > know > > > > > > > > > > > > what the majority says. Please voice your > > opinion > > > > > > freely. I > > > > > > > > am > > > > > > > > > a > > > > > > > > > > > > believer of democracy, most of the times I must > > > add. > > > > > > (But I > > > > > > > > > know > > > > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > > > > admit that sometimes autocracy is needed, too.) > > > > Anyway. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I personally feel that Bhaskar Ji's comment was > > > > > > > > irresponsible > > > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > > > > beyond general norms of courtesy. And if I were > > > > there I > > > > > > > > would > > > > > > > > > > have > > > > > > > > > > > > at least put him on moderation or perhaps I > > would > > > > ask > > > > > > him to > > > > > > > > > > > > apologize and if he did not then perhaps ban > > him. > > > > The > > > > > > only > > > > > > > > > thing > > > > > > > > > > > > that supports him is his great contributions, > > there > > > > is > > > > > > no > > > > > > > > doubt > > > > > > > > > > > > about him. And we all are grateful to him for > > that. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > However we must also rememeber, as I always > say, > > > > doing > > > > > > even > > > > > > > > > > hundred > > > > > > > > > > > > good deads do not permit one to do one evil. I > > may > > > > feed > > > > > > a > > > > > > > > > hungry > > > > > > > > > > > > poor person to the limit of his stomach but > does > > it > > > > > > REALLY > > > > > > > > > > entitle > > > > > > > > > > > > me to beat him, or to insult him, for the cost > > of > > > > > > feeding? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If we are to respect, and be greatful to > Bhaskar > > Ji > > > > for > > > > > > his > > > > > > > > > > > > contributions, then we must same time also > voice > > > > > against > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > biased > > > > > > > > > > > > comments that he has made. ONLY THAT IS > JUSTICE. > > I > > > > > > > > personally > > > > > > > > > was > > > > > > > > > > > > very frustrated by his biased comments and we > > > cannot > > > > > > expect > > > > > > > > > this > > > > > > > > > > > > from a matured, wise, kind person who does good > > to > > > > > needy > > > > > > > > > people. > > > > > > > > > > > > Esp. on this international board where people > > from > > > > all > > > > > > over > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > > world gather. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I was informed by Ashutosh Ji that even though > > > > Bhaskar > > > > > > Ji > > > > > > > > was > > > > > > > > > > argued > > > > > > > > > > > > with about his mean (Yes, I would say so.) > > comments > > > > he > > > > > > > > > continued > > > > > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > > > > > stick to it and always supported his earlier > > > > statement. > > > > > > > > > NOTHING > > > > > > > > > > can > > > > > > > > > > > > be more frustrating than this, when someone > > refuses > > > > to > > > > > > > > accept > > > > > > > > > his > > > > > > > > > > > > mistake. To err is human being and to accept > > > mistake > > > > is > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > > greatness. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Even though he was banned by Ashutosh Ji > without > > a > > > > > > warning > > > > > > > or > > > > > > > > > > > > precaution BUT THEN Ashutosh Ji is correct > about > > > his > > > > > > > > statement > > > > > > > > > > that > > > > > > > > > > > > as Bhaskar Ji kept sticking to his comments, > > what > > > is > > > > > the > > > > > > > > point > > > > > > > > > of > > > > > > > > > > > > giving him another warning. He already refuses > > to > > > > admit > > > > > > his > > > > > > > > > > mistake. > > > > > > > > > > > > Right? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Still, people have different defition of > justice > > > and > > > > > > > > different > > > > > > > > > > > > styles of judgement, and that is why this poll > > is > > > > for, > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > know > > > > > > > > > > what > > > > > > > > > > > > you think. Because each of the members of JR is > > a > > > > part > > > > > > of > > > > > > > > it, > > > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > > > > they all are equally important. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks for being a part of JR family. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards > > > > > > > > > > > > Tanvir. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What cannot happen, can never happen. > > > > > > > > > > > > Which is mine, is forever mine. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.jyotish-remedies.com - Vedic > > Astrology > > > > > > (Jyotish) > > > > > > > > > > > > Predictive astrology with incredibly powerful > > > > problem > > > > > > > solving > > > > > > > > > > > > remedies > > > > > > > > > > > > Where relief and solutions are found > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 19, 2006 Report Share Posted September 19, 2006 Dear Arjun ji, I am truly relieved to see/read you response! I shall await patiently for you to get back to your library and englighten us all on this matter of some personal importance to us. Warmest regards in the interim period ... RR , "panditarjun2004" <panditarjun2004 wrote: > > dear RR ji > > thanks for this direct query and i here give my direct answer. in > fact am glad that you asked this query because i too heard in this > or other groups earlier by eminent astrologers who loosely mentioned > that varahamihira has not mentioned rahu and ketu in his classic > brihat jatakam. i am sure you are basing your observation only on > the observations made by these people and not yourself after reading > brihat jatakam and i remember PERFECTLY the mention of rahu and ketu > in various places. > > am right now camping in delhi and could not lay hands on this book > but here i below i mention where rahu and ketu find mention as > planets. > > in the beginning of the chapter he gives all the names of the nine > planets in which varahamihira says that agu, asura and some other > name as synonyms of rahu and sikhi as synonym of ketu. > > in another chapter where directions (dishas) were attributed, he > mentions the list of sun, venus, mars, rahu, saturn, moon, mercury > and jupiter for the eight directions. > > in another chapter, varahamihira says that if sun and rahu are there > in the langa, the native will be blind and if moon and rahu are > there in the lagna, the native will suffer from devils. > > once back in my library, i will also give you the sloka numbers and > furnish the slokas and their translations to prove the mention of > rahu and ketu by varahamihira in brihat jatakam. > > RRji, i really appreciate such opportunites like these given by you > when you ask direct queries on astro classics as it gives me an > opportunity to dispel some myths going on rounds on the net becuase, > if one person mentions this myth, several others who read it blindly > pass on this myth to others without verifying the facts themselves. > > with best wishes > pandit arjun > > , "crystal pages" > <jyotish_vani@> wrote: > > > > Dear Arjun ji, > > > > Please comment directly on Varahamihira and what I wrote about him. > > > > Thanks and warmest regards, as always. > > > > Ranjan > > > > , "panditarjun2004" > > <panditarjun2004@> wrote: > > > > > > dear RR ji > > > > > > my submission of FACTS IS ONLY ON VEDIC ASTROLOGY, VALIDATION OF > > > RAHU AND KETU ONLY IN HINDU MYTHOLOGY, REJECTION OF RAHU AND > KETU > > IN > > > ALL OTHER SYSTEMS OF ASTROLOGY IN THE WEST. > > > > > > a person who practice vedic astroogy and pinpoint a problem to > rahu > > > or ketu has to first believe in rahu and ketu which are mythical > > and > > > non existing according to the west and also the scientific > > > community. astronomy also has no validation of rahu and ketu. > > > > > > in the west, uranus, neptune and pluto are referred most and > they > > > are attributed to so many positive and negative results of a > native > > > which are not at all considered in the vedic jyotish. > > > > > > my only submission is that if a person is preaching and > practicing > > > vedic jyotish, HE MUST BE BELIEVING AND ACCEPTING HINDU > MYTHOLOGY, > > > otherwise what he says has no validation. if you ask myself, > yes i > > > believe hindu mythology and vedic astrology built entirely on > hindu > > > mythology. i know many westerners like gauranga das of > > > brihaspati.com who believed, accepted, learnt, practised and > > > preached vedic astrology and i too learnt a few interesting > lessons > > > from his website www.brihaspati.net > > > > > > so my observation BASED ON FACTS is that one can practice vedic > > > jyotish containing rahu and ketu only if he believes hindu > > > mythology, otherwise he has no validation to support his service > in > > > the name of vedic jyotish. > > > > > > with best wishes > > > pandit arjun > > > > > > , "crystal pages" > > > <jyotish_vani@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Dear Arjun ji, > > > > > > > > It is sad that we are talking to each other like this, in this > > > mien > > > > which may smack of confrontation to those who would love to > run > > > with > > > > that! There is a lot of politics and politicians that have > > invaded > > > > astrology, particularly jyotish. But we must point that out > and > > > then > > > > not dwell on that and carry on our conversation and sharing, > at > > > least > > > > just the two of us who have been brought close by Destiny that > > > goes > > > > beyond just jyotish! > > > > > > > > The following I submit for your kind and wise consideration: > > > > > > > > I am glad that you are not limiting the usefulness of > > > > jyotish/astrology just to those who believe in Hindu Gods but > > GOD! > > > If > > > > a true atheist does come upon astrology (I respectfully submit > > > that > > > > even for the scientist (much hated, ill understood on this > forum > > > and > > > > for that matter in the jyotish context even in revered > journals > > > and > > > > magazines on astrology earlier!), NATURE IS THE GOD, even if > not > > > > stated in those terms, the exact three letter word, that is!). > > > > > > > > And, about rahu and ketu -- the last time I studied > Brihatjatakam > > > by > > > > Sage Varahamihira, there was no mention of rahu and ketu, > > therein! > > > > Jyotish for most rests on three pillars: Parashara, > Varahamihira > > > and > > > > Jaimini! > > > > > > > > Just because the lunar nodes were not mentioned or widely > > > discussed > > > > in Brihajjataka, I would not hastily take it off my Jyotish > puja- > > > > sthal! > > > > > > > > RR > > > > > > > > , "panditarjun2004" > > > > <panditarjun2004@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > dear RRji > > > > > > > > > > let me throw more light on jyotish remedies. > > > > > > > > > > BPHS written by sage parashasa of vyasa lineage is a HINDU > SAGE > > > who > > > > > explained how the grahas are DIRECTLY CORRELATED TO VARIOUS > > GODS > > > > and > > > > > suggested various remedies of pleasing GODS AND DIETIES > WHICH > > > ARE > > > > > ALL HINDU. even the other samhitas of the north and the > nadis > > > of > > > > > the south are also written by the sages who all meditated > for > > > > > hundreds and thousands of years and worshipped various gods > and > > > > > goddesses under hinduism and all the remedies suggested by > them > > > > have > > > > > direct link to hindu mythology of gods and goddesses where > > > planets > > > > > and stars are not seen like by balls of mud and chemicals > but > > > like > > > > > living gods and demons. > > > > > > > > > > any person, be it a christian or a muslim, if he is > believing, > > > > > practicing and preaching VEDIC ASTROLOGY AND VEDIC JYOTISH > > > > REMEDIES, > > > > > it implies that he too believes and accepts hindu mythology. > > > > > > > > > > some astrologers (not me) try to project themselves as > people > > > with > > > > > scientific background and say that they believe astronomy > and > > > not > > > > > astrology. i ask a direct query to all of them. if NASA > has > > > not > > > > > endorsed the existence of rahu and ketu as two separate > > planets, > > > > why > > > > > these scientific rationalist so called astrologers are > > > believing, > > > > > practicing, preaching and selling the goods of these non > > > existing > > > > > planets. > > > > > > > > > > so, only those persons who believe these planets as gods and > > > > demons, > > > > > they only can PRACTICE VEDIC ASTROLOGY. the westerners who > do > > > not > > > > > beleive in rahu and ketu have a different astrology based on > > > > > astronomy and they have all support and validation to do so > > > because > > > > > they are not endorsing rahu and ketu. BUT ALL THOSE WHO > > ENDORSE > > > > AND > > > > > RECOMMEND REMEDIES FOR RAHU AND KETU MUST BE BELIEVERS OF > HINDU > > > > > MYTHOLOGY. > > > > > > > > > > what is your opinion on rahu and ketu being part of only > vedic > > > > > astrology WHICH IS 100% BASED ON HINDU MYTHOLOGY. > > > > > > > > > > with best wishes > > > > > pandit arjun > > > > > > > > > > , "crystal pages" > > > > > <jyotish_vani@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Arjun ji, > > > > > > > > > > > > I understand the points raised by you. I have rubbed many > > > members > > > > > the > > > > > > wrong way in the past -- that is my prarabdha. > > > > > > > > > > > > When Kumar ji was banned, I was the first one to respond > here > > > > > > publicly and so did others, and Tanvir reversed his > decision > > > on > > > > > very > > > > > > sane and rational grounds very OPENLY and transparently! > > > > > > > > > > > > I have had difficult conversations with Kumarji on this > > board, > > > > but > > > > > > the beauty in his soul was never lost upon me. Call me > biased! > > > > > > > > > > > > I have not commented on the present 'drama' or MAYA if you > > > want > > > > to > > > > > > call it! Because I do not feel that I can connect to it. > > > > > > > > > > > > Religious angle to astrology is like subtitles in a film! > It > > > may > > > > > make > > > > > > the film and theme and dialogue more understandable, but > it > > > does > > > > > not > > > > > > take over the original film! > > > > > > > > > > > > Astrology is pure, like an infant. It has no theme and > > > language > > > > > and > > > > > > agenda! It is just supposed to bring instant love to the > > > heart! > > > > > Who > > > > > > ever really understood the gurgling and cooing of an > infant > > > (even > > > > > the > > > > > > mother!), but who could ever resist picking it up? > > > > > > > > > > > > RR > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , "panditarjun2004" > > > > > > <panditarjun2004@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > dear RRji > > > > > > > > > > > > > > in the net, the space is offered freely by and > > > whosoever > > > > > has > > > > > > > created these groups have given a platform to likeminded > > > people > > > > > to > > > > > > > come and share their views and opinions freely and also > > > discuss > > > > > the > > > > > > > subject of astrology, remedies and learn it by asking > > > questions > > > > > as > > > > > > > well as also give free readings, time permitting. > tanvirji > > > has > > > > > > been > > > > > > > most democratic by giving 100% automatic approval for > all > > > > > members > > > > > > > which is his hallmark till date. however due to his > > > > > preoccupation > > > > > > > with his own life and having less time to answer queries > in > > > > this > > > > > > > group, few members like us have made this group like our > > own > > > > > group > > > > > > > and have started giving our best contributions by > sparing > > > our > > > > > time, > > > > > > > money and energy. true ashutoshji is also a great > member > > > and > > > > > great > > > > > > > contributor like you and me. but i emphasised in > several > > > mails > > > > > > that > > > > > > > VEDIC JYOTISH OR ASTROLOGY IS INEXPLICABLY INTERTWINED > WITH > > > > > HINDU > > > > > > > (NOT OTHER RELIGIONS) MYTHOLOGY AND HENCE A PERSON WHO > DOES > > > NOT > > > > > > > BELIEVE IN GOD, CANNOT HEAD THIS GROUP OF JYOTISH > REMEDIES > > > > WHICH > > > > > > > BELIEVES IN GOD. Tanviji is a great astrologer and he > > > beleives > > > > > in > > > > > > > god. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > you and i are the first two individuals who got the bad > > > moody > > > > > > > expression of words by bhaskarji but both have seen the > > > > > potential > > > > > > > knowledge and contributions he could make to the group > and > > > have > > > > > > > accommodated him and he brought happiness and relief to > > > several > > > > > > > querents. i advised him publicly as well as in private > not > > > to > > > > > let > > > > > > > his moods overtake his expressions and show maturity by > > > writing > > > > > > > positive polished language which, unfortunately he could > > not > > > > not > > > > > > > improve upon and am sure he will improve as he got two > > > LEARNING > > > > > > > EXPERIENCES by getting banned from the two largest astro > > > groups > > > > > on > > > > > > > the web. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > one thing i can conclude firmly is that the way tanvirji > is > > > > > > > expressing emphatically that ashutoshji is now the new > > > > moderator > > > > > > who > > > > > > > got 100% rights and powers to do any thing as ashutosh > > feels > > > > fit > > > > > > and > > > > > > > that tanvirji dont interfere even if ashutosh does > things > > > which > > > > > are > > > > > > > not to the linking of tanvirji or most members of this > > > group, > > > > is > > > > > a > > > > > > > clear indication of putting the ball in the court of > > > ashutoshji > > > > > and > > > > > > > DARING THE BOLD MEMBERS TO VENTURE TO ASK ASHUTOSHJI > > > DIRECTLY > > > > > AND > > > > > > > GET BANNED BY HIM. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > you and i are risking this as we are sure that tanvirji > > > would > > > > > > review > > > > > > > his decision and ashutoshji would also find the MORAL > > > GROUNDS > > > > > not > > > > > > in > > > > > > > his favour when several members are openly objecting to > his > > > > > > > moderatorship instantly after his appointment. if he > wants > > > to > > > > > > stick > > > > > > > to his post turning a blind eye to all these objections, > > let > > > > > > members > > > > > > > judge him. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > as regards you and i are concerned, we believe in free > and > > > fair > > > > > > > expression of knowledge as well as free sharing of > > knowledge > > > > and > > > > > > > also give and expect the same freedome and expression > from > > > > > others. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > hope better sense prevails and tanvirji reviews his > > decision > > > > and > > > > > > > ashutoshji too finds some moral validity for his > continuing > > > as > > > > > > > moderator. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > with best wishes > > > > > > > pandit arjun > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , "crystal pages" > > > > > > > <jyotish_vani@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Arjun ji, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > After creating and nurturing this beautiful garden of > > > > > astrology > > > > > > > for > > > > > > > > some years and having built up membership, as > mentioned a > > > few > > > > > > > times, > > > > > > > > that vyes in numbers with the only other similar group > > > which > > > > > has > > > > > > > an > > > > > > > > institution behind it as we all know (and this is not > a > > > > > criticism > > > > > > > of > > > > > > > > another group, let me say outright!), what would be > the > > > > > pragmatic > > > > > > > > reason for Tanvir to create a situation which has the > > > > > potential > > > > > > > for > > > > > > > > destroying his creation? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I am merely expressing my perplexity as an ordinary > > member > > > > > here. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Unless the child was misbehaving beyond his own good, > why > > > > > would a > > > > > > > > parent punish him, if that is what this amounts to? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > RR > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , "panditarjun2004" > > > > > > > > <panditarjun2004@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > dear friends > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > as brother satishji rightly put, the way this poll > is > > > > > > > constructed, > > > > > > > > > it is a clever ploy to meet both the objectives of > the > > > > group > > > > > > > > OWNER. > > > > > > > > > objective one is that he wants ashutosh as the > dictator > > > > > > > moderator > > > > > > > > of > > > > > > > > > this group at any cost, so he gave 3 out of 4 > options > > to > > > > > vote > > > > > > > for > > > > > > > > > ashutosh being the moderator. the second objective > is > > > that > > > > > > > since > > > > > > > > > many people are asking for reinstatement of > bhaskarji, > > > he > > > > > gave > > > > > > 3 > > > > > > > > out > > > > > > > > > of 4 options to remove the ban on bhaskarji, so that > > > > > bhaskarji > > > > > > > can > > > > > > > > > be reinstated based on this majority number. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > now, here is the catch. by this poll, the owner is > > > clearly > > > > > > > > > conveying a message that he will do the following, > as > > he > > > > has > > > > > > > done > > > > > > > > > earlier: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1. if he receives few complaints in his personal > mail > > > > > against > > > > > > > one > > > > > > > > > member, he removes them autocratically like a > dictator > > > but > > > > > he > > > > > > > has > > > > > > > > > the power to review his decision, if members give > > > feedback. > > > > > > > > > 2. he appoints such a moderator who empathises his > way > > > of > > > > > > > removing > > > > > > > > > an active member and improves the dictatorship by > not > > > even > > > > > > > telling > > > > > > > > > the group about it. > > > > > > > > > 3. he supports such moderator's acts publicly and > > > reconfirm > > > > > > that > > > > > > > > > dictatorial rule is here to stay. > > > > > > > > > 4. instantly after the appointment of ashutosh as > > > > moderator, > > > > > he > > > > > > > > gets > > > > > > > > > serious objection from several members that he is an > > > > athiest > > > > > > who > > > > > > > > > cannot be the moderator of a jyotish group which > > > believes > > > > in > > > > > > > god, > > > > > > > > or > > > > > > > > > he is a dictator, or many other reasons. what a > great > > > way > > > > > to > > > > > > > greet > > > > > > > > > a newly appointed moderator. the owner keeps silent > on > > > > > these > > > > > > > > > observations. > > > > > > > > > 5. when several people object to the appointment of > > > > > asutoshji > > > > > > as > > > > > > > a > > > > > > > > > moderator, he cleverly formats a poll wherein 3 out > of > > 4 > > > > > > options > > > > > > > > are > > > > > > > > > given to vote FOR ashutoshji. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > all the above clearly suggest that ashutoshji will > > > remain > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > moderator of this group because of his alignment > with > > > the > > > > > > > > > dictatorship of the group owner. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > most group members who contribute their time, money > and > > > > > energy > > > > > > > in > > > > > > > > > reading charts and sharing knowledge (including me) > are > > > now > > > > > > > afraid > > > > > > > > > that this moderator is ruthless and he would remail > > tall > > > > > only > > > > > > by > > > > > > > > > cutting (removing) all other members one by one. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > it fails simple common sense that these two > dictators > > > > (owner > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > moderator) have forgotten the very existence of an > > > option > > > > > for > > > > > > > them > > > > > > > > > of putting an erring member under moderation so that > > all > > > > his > > > > > > bad > > > > > > > > > mails will be rejected and only good mails will be > > > > > approved. > > > > > > > that > > > > > > > > > way also they can convey the message to the member > that > > > all > > > > > his > > > > > > > bad > > > > > > > > > mails would not find place in this group. sending > > > volumes > > > > > of > > > > > > > > > justification for removing a member outrightly > SECOND > > > TIME > > > > > IN > > > > > > AS > > > > > > > > > MANY MONTHS is a confirmation of the dictatorial > > > > functioning. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > the owner publicly exhibiting that he will not > remove > > > the > > > > > ban > > > > > > on > > > > > > > > > bhaskarji even if 100 people ask for it because he > > > respects > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > moderator and THINKS that the moderator has done > this > > > > > activity > > > > > > > > after > > > > > > > > > much thought and leaving 100% in the hands of one > > > moderator > > > > > > > suggest > > > > > > > > > that he is throwing the ball of power to remove or > > > impose > > > > > ban > > > > > > > only > > > > > > > > > in the hands of the moderator. this way the owner > is > > > > > directly > > > > > > > > > daring the members to ask ashutoshji and not him > when > > he > > > is > > > > > > > cleary > > > > > > > > > exhibiting that he will not take decision or review > a > > > > > decision > > > > > > > on > > > > > > > > > his own and that this group is now under the iron > grip > > > of > > > > > > > asutoshji > > > > > > > > > and not tanvirji. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > hence let ashutoshji run this group with his iron > hand > > > and > > > > > > > please > > > > > > > > > his owner. but the message is clear. all > contributing > > > > > > members, > > > > > > > > > beware. you can be removed anytime without > intimation > > > and > > > > > even > > > > > > > if > > > > > > > > > hundred members ask for your reinstatement, all you > get > > > is > > > > > > > volumes > > > > > > > > > of justfication of autocratic dictatorship. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > HERE IS THE HYPOCRICY. THE GROUP OWNER SAYS HE > LIKES A > > > > > > > PROCEDURAL > > > > > > > > > BAN. HE LIKES TO INFORM THE GROUP ABOUT THE BAN IF > AND > > > > WHEN > > > > > HE > > > > > > > > > BANS. BUT IF HIS MODERATOR DOES NOT DO THESE AND DO > AS > > > PER > > > > > HIS > > > > > > > OWN > > > > > > > > > LIKING, THE OWNER ONLY RESPECTS THE MODERATOR > > HELPLESSLY > > > > > > BECAUSE > > > > > > > > THE > > > > > > > > > OWNER IS CONVEYING A MESSAGE THAT THIS MODERATOR > > > > (ASHUOTHJI) > > > > > IS > > > > > > > > MORE > > > > > > > > > POWERFUL THAN THE OWNER AND THE OWNER WILL NOT > OBJECT > > TO > > > > > > > > ASUTOSHJI'S > > > > > > > > > DICTATORSHIP EVEN IF IT IS NOT TO THE LIKING OF THE > > > OWNER. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > in the last two odd years, i wrote thousand times > that > > > this > > > > > > > group > > > > > > > > is > > > > > > > > > most democratic and complimented but the owner is > > > proving > > > > > > > otherwise > > > > > > > > > because he is supporting a dictator as moderator > even > > > when > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > moderator does things which are not to the liking of > > the > > > > > owner. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > this is my last mail on this dictatorial moderator > and > > > the > > > > > 100% > > > > > > > all > > > > > > > > > out open support of the owner to this moderator as > it > > is > > > > > > members > > > > > > > > who > > > > > > > > > constitute this group and not one owner and one > > > moderator > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > majority of the members are interested in continuing > to > > > get > > > > > > into > > > > > > > > > reading of charts and sharing of knowledge and put > an > > > end > > > > to > > > > > > > this > > > > > > > > > dictatorial authority with which active contributing > > > > members > > > > > > are > > > > > > > > > removed ony by one. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > with best wishes and blessings > > > > > > > > > pandit arjun > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , "R Satish" > > > > > > > > > <rsatish1942@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Daer Tanvir, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I have decided not to participate > in > > > the > > > > so > > > > > > > called > > > > > > > > > > poll. If only 50 people respond what decision are > you > > > > > going > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > > take. > > > > > > > > > > It would be a travesty of norms to have a > miniscule > > > > group > > > > > in > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > polls decide without knowing the full picture. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I think you should allow emotions to > > > cool > > > > > down > > > > > > > > > first, > > > > > > > > > > restore a balance.A decision has been taken, which > in > > > any > > > > > > case > > > > > > > is > > > > > > > > > > not for eternity. Review after some days.Where is > the > > > > > hassle? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Creating pressure groups will open a > > > > > pandoras > > > > > > > box. > > > > > > > > I > > > > > > > > > > have left some groups myself where I did not agree > > > with > > > > > the > > > > > > > tenor > > > > > > > > > of > > > > > > > > > > discussions.Democracy provides for this action. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It has happened in some > groups , > > > when > > > > > a > > > > > > > split > > > > > > > > > > took place,a breakaway group was formed and which > the > > > > > > > > > > > > > > permits > > > > > > > > > > forming . > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > There are so many alernatives > > > available. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Best wishes. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Satish > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , "Tanvir > > > > > Chowdhury" > > > > > > > > > > <tanweera@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Prafulla Ji > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I did not set the option for revealing voter > > > identity > > > > so > > > > > > > that > > > > > > > > > > people > > > > > > > > > > > can feel free to vote and whatever they feel can > be > > > > > > > reflected. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In this situation no one can see who voted for > > whom, > > > > not > > > > > > > even I. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I believe I did not make any mistake making > > Ashutosh > > > Ji > > > > > a > > > > > > > > > > moderator. > > > > > > > > > > > Still the option was kept as some of them raised > > the > > > > > > > question. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The poll will end about 2-4 days later. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > > > > > > > > Tanvir > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What cannot happen, can never happen. > > > > > > > > > > > Which is mine, is forever mine. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.jyotish-remedies.com - Vedic > Astrology > > > > > (Jyotish) > > > > > > > > > > > Predictive astrology with incredibly powerful > > > problem > > > > > > > solving > > > > > > > > > > > remedies > > > > > > > > > > > Where relief and solutions are found > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , > Prafulla > > > Gang > > > > > > > > > <jyotish@> > > > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Tanveer ji, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Poll can be configured to see - who has > > > voted > > > > > for > > > > > > > which > > > > > > > > > > > option; and when results are announced - that is > > > often > > > > > > > > disclosed > > > > > > > > > > as > > > > > > > > > > > well. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Since, you have raised a sensitive issue > > regarding > > > > > > > > > continuation > > > > > > > > > > of > > > > > > > > > > > Ashutosh as moderator - How can anyone vote > freely, > > > > when > > > > > > > such > > > > > > > > > > > results (with member name) is known the > moderator > > > > > himself > > > > > > > (or > > > > > > > > > when > > > > > > > > > > > results are announced). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The poll may not be holding confidentiality of > > > vote > > > > > for > > > > > > > each > > > > > > > > > > > member's inclination. and under the > circumstances, > > > > needs > > > > > > > > > assurance > > > > > > > > > > > from you, as to who will have access to the > > > results !! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > regards / Prafulla Gang > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Kaun rota hai kisi aur ki khatir e dost, sabko > > > apni > > > > hi > > > > > > > kisi > > > > > > > > > baat > > > > > > > > > > > pe rona aaya. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ************************************************ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > tanweera@ > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sat, 16 Sep 2006 20:34:02 -0000 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The poll > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear all : > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > As there are a lot of discussions, opinions > > etc. > > > > > about > > > > > > > this > > > > > > > > > > > recent > > > > > > > > > > > > > ban with most of the people going against > the > > > ban. > > > > I > > > > > > > want > > > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > > > know > > > > > > > > > > > > > what the majority says. Please voice your > > > opinion > > > > > > > freely. I > > > > > > > > > am > > > > > > > > > > a > > > > > > > > > > > > > believer of democracy, most of the times I > must > > > > add. > > > > > > > (But I > > > > > > > > > > know > > > > > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > > > > > admit that sometimes autocracy is needed, > too.) > > > > > Anyway. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I personally feel that Bhaskar Ji's comment > was > > > > > > > > > irresponsible > > > > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > > > > > beyond general norms of courtesy. And if I > were > > > > > there I > > > > > > > > > would > > > > > > > > > > > have > > > > > > > > > > > > > at least put him on moderation or perhaps I > > > would > > > > > ask > > > > > > > him to > > > > > > > > > > > > > apologize and if he did not then perhaps ban > > > him. > > > > > The > > > > > > > only > > > > > > > > > > thing > > > > > > > > > > > > > that supports him is his great > contributions, > > > there > > > > > is > > > > > > > no > > > > > > > > > doubt > > > > > > > > > > > > > about him. And we all are grateful to him > for > > > that. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > However we must also rememeber, as I always > > say, > > > > > doing > > > > > > > even > > > > > > > > > > > hundred > > > > > > > > > > > > > good deads do not permit one to do one evil. > I > > > may > > > > > feed > > > > > > > a > > > > > > > > > > hungry > > > > > > > > > > > > > poor person to the limit of his stomach but > > does > > > it > > > > > > > REALLY > > > > > > > > > > > entitle > > > > > > > > > > > > > me to beat him, or to insult him, for the > cost > > > of > > > > > > > feeding? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If we are to respect, and be greatful to > > Bhaskar > > > Ji > > > > > for > > > > > > > his > > > > > > > > > > > > > contributions, then we must same time also > > voice > > > > > > against > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > biased > > > > > > > > > > > > > comments that he has made. ONLY THAT IS > > JUSTICE. > > > I > > > > > > > > > personally > > > > > > > > > > was > > > > > > > > > > > > > very frustrated by his biased comments and > we > > > > cannot > > > > > > > expect > > > > > > > > > > this > > > > > > > > > > > > > from a matured, wise, kind person who does > good > > > to > > > > > > needy > > > > > > > > > > people. > > > > > > > > > > > > > Esp. on this international board where > people > > > from > > > > > all > > > > > > > over > > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > > > world gather. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I was informed by Ashutosh Ji that even > though > > > > > Bhaskar > > > > > > > Ji > > > > > > > > > was > > > > > > > > > > > argued > > > > > > > > > > > > > with about his mean (Yes, I would say so.) > > > comments > > > > > he > > > > > > > > > > continued > > > > > > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > > > > > > stick to it and always supported his earlier > > > > > statement. > > > > > > > > > > NOTHING > > > > > > > > > > > can > > > > > > > > > > > > > be more frustrating than this, when someone > > > refuses > > > > > to > > > > > > > > > accept > > > > > > > > > > his > > > > > > > > > > > > > mistake. To err is human being and to accept > > > > mistake > > > > > is > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > > > greatness. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Even though he was banned by Ashutosh Ji > > without > > > a > > > > > > > warning > > > > > > > > or > > > > > > > > > > > > > precaution BUT THEN Ashutosh Ji is correct > > about > > > > his > > > > > > > > > statement > > > > > > > > > > > that > > > > > > > > > > > > > as Bhaskar Ji kept sticking to his comments, > > > what > > > > is > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > point > > > > > > > > > > of > > > > > > > > > > > > > giving him another warning. He already > refuses > > > to > > > > > admit > > > > > > > his > > > > > > > > > > > mistake. > > > > > > > > > > > > > Right? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Still, people have different defition of > > justice > > > > and > > > > > > > > > different > > > > > > > > > > > > > styles of judgement, and that is why this > poll > > > is > > > > > for, > > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > > know > > > > > > > > > > > what > > > > > > > > > > > > > you think. Because each of the members of JR > is > > > a > > > > > part > > > > > > > of > > > > > > > > > it, > > > > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > > > > > they all are equally important. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks for being a part of JR family. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards > > > > > > > > > > > > > Tanvir. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What cannot happen, can never happen. > > > > > > > > > > > > > Which is mine, is forever mine. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.jyotish-remedies.com - Vedic > > > Astrology > > > > > > > (Jyotish) > > > > > > > > > > > > > Predictive astrology with incredibly > powerful > > > > > problem > > > > > > > > solving > > > > > > > > > > > > > remedies > > > > > > > > > > > > > Where relief and solutions are found > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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