Overlooking what is Immediate - parables of Sringeri Acharyal

[Guest guest]

(From the book: 'Edifying Parables' of HH

Jagadguru Sri Abhinava Vidyateertha Mahaswamigal

published by Sri Vidyateertha Foundation, Chennai)

 

Overlooking What is Immediate

=============================

 

Once ten fools crossed a river. After reaching the opposite

bank, they wished to ascertain whether all of them had crossed.

One of them started to count. He listed all except himself and so

concluded that one of them had drowned. This caused him

much grief. Another fool made the same error and confirmed

that one person was missing. Consequently, all of them began

to weep.

 

A well-wisher happened to pass that way and sought to

know what their problem was. One of the fools said,

"Ten of us set out to cross the river but now we are only nine."

The well-wisher was amused. He told the leader "Please count and

let me know how many of you are here." As the others had done

before him, he arrived at the answer, "Nine". The well-wisher

announced, "No. The tenth man is not dead."

The fools experienced some relief. Quickly pointing at the man who

had counted, he continued, "You are the tenth man."

The significance of the well-wisher's words dawned on the fools.

Exultation replaced their grief.

 

Each fool forgot to count himself; we have forgotten our

true nature of being the non-dual Supreme. Playing a role like

that of the well-wisher of the story, the Sadguru tells his disciple,

"You are not the limited, miserable person you imagine yourself

to be. You are the Supreme that is of the nature of existence,

consciousness and bliss".

 

A very pure-minded disciple promptly becomes enlightened.

A disciple of a lower caliber has to serve his Guru for long and

sincerely practice spiritual disciplines to rid himself of defects

such as uncertainty and misapprehension. Thereafter, he obtains

direct realization of the Truth.

 

[Note: This story and especially the last paragraph above is very

relevant to discussions in messages 33299, 33344, 33351,

33451,33454, 33456]

 

Pranams,

Sundar Rajan

[Guest guest]

namaste Sundarji,

 

I believe Shankara uses this story quite a fair bit in his works but

does he use the word 'fools' explicitly? The error that we all commit

unknowingly, which is adhyasa, is natural to all human beings. So

don't you think the word 'fool' is too strong a word to indicate

people who are natually ignorant due to the senses which only go

outwards?

 

"The self-existent damned the out-going senses. Therefore one sees

externally and not the internal Self. - Katha Upanishad "

 

Om Shanti

Kathirasan

 

 

On 9/28/06, Sundar Rajan <avsundarrajan > wrote:

> (From the book: 'Edifying Parables' of HH

> Jagadguru Sri Abhinava Vidyateertha Mahaswamigal

> published by Sri Vidyateertha Foundation, Chennai)

>

> Overlooking What is Immediate

> =============================

>

> Once ten fools crossed a river. After reaching the opposite

> bank, they wished to ascertain whether all of them had crossed.

> One of them started to count. He listed all except himself and so

> concluded that one of them had drowned. This caused him

> much grief. Another fool made the same error and confirmed

> that one person was missing. Consequently, all of them began

> to weep.

>

> A well-wisher happened to pass that way and sought to

> know what their problem was. One of the fools said,

> "Ten of us set out to cross the river but now we are only nine."

> The well-wisher was amused. He told the leader "Please count and

> let me know how many of you are here." As the others had done

> before him, he arrived at the answer, "Nine". The well-wisher

> announced, "No. The tenth man is not dead."

> The fools experienced some relief. Quickly pointing at the man who

> had counted, he continued, "You are the tenth man."

> The significance of the well-wisher's words dawned on the fools.

> Exultation replaced their grief.

>

> Each fool forgot to count himself; we have forgotten our

> true nature of being the non-dual Supreme. Playing a role like

> that of the well-wisher of the story, the Sadguru tells his disciple,

> "You are not the limited, miserable person you imagine yourself

> to be. You are the Supreme that is of the nature of existence,

> consciousness and bliss".

>

> A very pure-minded disciple promptly becomes enlightened.

> A disciple of a lower caliber has to serve his Guru for long and

> sincerely practice spiritual disciplines to rid himself of defects

> such as uncertainty and misapprehension. Thereafter, he obtains

> direct realization of the Truth.

>

> [Note: This story and especially the last paragraph above is very

> relevant to discussions in messages 33299, 33344, 33351,

> 33451,33454, 33456]

>

> Pranams,

> Sundar Rajan

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

advaitin, "Sundar Rajan" <avsundarrajan wrote:

very pure-minded disciple promptly becomes enlightened.

> A disciple of a lower caliber has to serve his Guru for long and

> sincerely practice spiritual disciplines to rid himself of defects

> such as uncertainty and misapprehension. Thereafter, he obtains

> direct realization of the Truth.

 

 

SundarRajanji

 

Pranams

 

The last para clearly gives the message that only very pure-minded

disciple promptly becomes enlightened and a person who is not yet

acqured the requred purity of mind can not realise the Atman inspite

of the updesha from the Sadguru. Recently I have come across a posting

in the archives of the messages by Swami viswarupananda which I think

clearly describes the position of the person who is not yet fully

qualified to receive the instruction. The posting goes like this.

 

" Yesterday someone told me a joke which seems to describe very aptly

the gap between 'knowing' and being there.

 

A mad man is convinced he is a mouse. He is brought to the lunatic

asylum and the doctor does everything to make him understand that he

is a man and not a mouse. "Look, you are so big, a mouse is so small,

how can you ever be a mouse? ..." In the end the man was convinced and

understood he is a human being, not a mouse after all. Everyone was

happy that the man was cured of his madness and the relatives gathered

to take him home. At the greeting ceremony a cat happened to come into

the room and the former mad man winced. "Hey", said the doctor seeing

it, "You know you are not a mouse, why are you afraid?I know I'm

not a mouse", said the man, "You know I'm not a mouse. But does the

cat know?"

:-))

 

The man had understood the logic and fully accepted it, that he was

not a mouse, but a human being. He was doubtlessly convinced. But his

mental state, that which was the cause of paranoia had not been cured.

He was still the same mad man, only with more knowledge in his head.

It is the state of his mind that needs to be canged. In the same way,

it is the desease of avidya that has to be cured. Theoretical

understanding is wonderful, but not enough. Chittashuddhi, freedom

from vaasanas, destruction of the ego have to be for real for

'attaining' Jnana, though we never were anything but the Self.

 

Greetings and Om,

Vishvarupananda "

 

This joke I found very instructive and tempted me to repeat it here. I

am not fully conversant with the previous postings of the thread and

this is not any reply to any other posting .If you feel this is out of

context kindly excuse me treating this as a childish act of an

ignorant member. I apolgise to Shri Swamiji for utilising his posting

without proper permission.

 

Hari Om

 

Moses Yesupadam

[Guest guest]

Pranam,

This is a good example.

However in the wordly life a common man feel himself very very limited by all means. He gets churned by the rules of the game of life. How can he consider himself as a non-dual supreme in such circumstances ? No reason, why majority of the people find it extremly difficult to accept. Therefore, the theory of non-dualism is a challenge to be accepted. People find it far easy and logical to accept the duality.

regards

 

Sundar Rajan <avsundarrajan > wrote:

(From the book: 'Edifying Parables' of HH

Jagadguru Sri Abhinava Vidyateertha Mahaswamigal

published by Sri Vidyateertha Foundation, Chennai)

 

Overlooking What is Immediate

=============================

 

Once ten fools crossed a river. After reaching the opposite

bank, they wished to ascertain whether all of them had crossed.

One of them started to count. He listed all except himself and so

concluded that one of them had drowned. This caused him

much grief. Another fool made the same error and confirmed

that one person was missing. Consequently, all of them began

to weep.

 

A well-wisher happened to pass that way and sought to

know what their problem was. One of the fools said,

"Ten of us set out to cross the river but now we are only nine."

The well-wisher was amused. He told the leader "Please count and

let me know how many of you are here." As the others had done

before him, he arrived at the answer, "Nine". The well-wisher

announced, "No. The tenth man is not dead."

The fools experienced some relief. Quickly pointing at the man who

had counted, he continued, "You are the tenth man."

The significance of the well-wisher's words dawned on the fools.

Exultation replaced their grief.

 

Each fool forgot to count himself; we have forgotten our

true nature of being the non-dual Supreme. Playing a role like

that of the well-wisher of the story, the Sadguru tells his disciple,

"You are not the limited, miserable person you imagine yourself

to be. You are the Supreme that is of the nature of existence,

consciousness and bliss".

 

A very pure-minded disciple promptly becomes enlightened.

A disciple of a lower caliber has to serve his Guru for long and

sincerely practice spiritual disciplines to rid himself of defects

such as uncertainty and misapprehension. Thereafter, he obtains

direct realization of the Truth.

 

[Note: This story and especially the last paragraph above is very

relevant to discussions in messages 33299, 33344, 33351,

33451,33454, 33456]

 

Pranams,

Sundar Rajan

 

 

 

 

 

Messenger with Voice. Make PC-to-Phone Calls to the US (and 30+ countries) for 2¢/min or less.

[Guest guest]

Namaste Subramanianji,

 

Thanks for the justifications. Would the word 'confused' be a better

substitute for 'fool'? Can the word 'Mudha' be translated as

'confused' or 'deluded' ? :-)

 

The choice of words makes a great difference. Don't you think so my dear sir?

 

On 9/28/06, subrahmanian_v <subrahmanian_v > wrote:

> advaitin, "K Kathirasan" <brahmasatyam

> wrote:

> >

> > namaste Sundarji,

> >

> > I believe Shankara uses this story quite a fair bit in his works

> but

> > does he use the word 'fools' explicitly? The error that we all

> commit

> > unknowingly, which is adhyasa, is natural to all human beings. So

> > don't you think the word 'fool' is too strong a word to indicate

> > people who are natually ignorant due to the senses which only go

> > outwards?

> >

> > "The self-existent damned the out-going senses. Therefore one sees

> > externally and not the internal Self. - Katha Upanishad "

> >

> > Om Shanti

> > Kathirasan

> >

> Srigurubhyo NamaH

>

> Namaste Kathirasan ji,

> Just recalled a few instances which are mentioned below:

>

> In the Mundaka Upanishad I.2.mantras 8,9 and 10 we have the

> following usages:

>

> avidyAyAm antare vartamAnAH....panditam manyamAnAH....mUDhAH..

> (Ramaining within the fold of ignorance and thinking 'We are

> ouselves wise and learned', the fools, while being buffeted very

> much, ramble about like the blind led by the blind.)

>

> There is the word 'bAlAH' meaning literally children, in this

> context, unenlightened.

>

> Again, in the 10th mantra, there appears the word 'pra-mUDhAH', the

> deluded fools. Here the Bhashyam says://... who are so because of

> their infatuation for sons, cattle, friends, etc.. do not understand

> the other thing called the knowledge of the Self. //

>

> Again, in the BrihadaraNyaka Upanishad 3.5.1 bhashyam, the Acharya

> says (towards the end)...// It is only the fool without the strength

> of knowledge who is attracted by his organs to desires concerning

> objects, visible or invisible. //

>

> In the Gita bhashya V.22 we have the Acharya saying:// atyanta-

> mUDhAnaam eva hi.....Meaning: It is only quite deluded fools that

> are, like cattle and the like, found to rejoice in the sense-

> objects.//

>

> At least in the earlier quotes, the ignorant man was called a fool

> for seeking worldly wealth, cattle, etc. Here, in the last cited

> quote, the Acharya compares the ignorant man to cattle themselves.

> What a strong indictment !!

>

> The surprise is, all these quotes exactly fit into the very quote

> you have given above. So, are we not thinking 'in tune' with the

> scriptures/Bhashya ? Good.

>

> Pranams,

> subbu

> Om Tat Sat

[Guest guest]

Namaste Sri Yesupadam-ji,

>

> SundarRajanji

>

> Pranams

> ..

> In the end the man was convinced and

> understood he is a human being, not a mouse after all. Everyone was

> happy that the man was cured of his madness and the relatives

gathered

> to take him home. At the greeting ceremony a cat happened to come

into

> the room and the former mad man winced. "Hey", said the doctor

seeing

> it, "You know you are not a mouse, why are you afraid?I know I'm

> not a mouse", said the man, "You know I'm not a mouse. But does the

> cat know?"

> :-))

>..

> It is the state of his mind that needs to be canged. In the same

way,

> it is the disease of avidya that has to be cured. Theoretical

> understanding is wonderful, but not enough. Chittashuddhi, freedom

> from vaasanas, destruction of the ego have to be for real for

> 'attaining' Jnana, though we never were anything but the Self.

>..

> This joke I found very instructive and tempted me to repeat it

here. I

> am not fully conversant with the previous postings of the thread

and

> this is not any reply to any other posting .If you feel this is

out of

> context kindly excuse me treating this as a childish act of an

> ignorant member. >

>

 

That was a very humrous and very appropriate joke :-) I really

enjoyed it. Thanks

[Guest guest]

The word mUDha is derived from the verb 'mun' which means 'to be deluded'.

So mUDha does not mean a person devoid of intelligence. It means one who is

deluded by mAyA. So every one except the jnAni is a mUdha. As regards

comparison with cattle, SrI Sankara says in adhyAsa bhAshya that even

learned people are like the cow which goes towards a person who has grass in

his hand and runs away from one who has a stick.. He has said this to stress

the fact that emotions such as desire, fear, etc, will remain until

realization. The taitt. up. says that all the gods are afraid of the supreme

being, to show that even gods are not free from fear. This is all said only

to point out the greatness of realization and not to denigrate all human

beings.

 

On 9/28/06, subrahmanian_v <subrahmanian_v > wrote:

>

> advaitin, "K Kathirasan" <brahmasatyam

> wrote:

> >

> > namaste Sundarji,

> >

> > I believe Shankara uses this story quite a fair bit in his works

> but

> > does he use the word 'fools' explicitly? The error that we all

> commit

> > unknowingly, which is adhyasa, is natural to all human beings. So

> > don't you think the word 'fool' is too strong a word to indicate

> > people who are natually ignorant due to the senses which only go

> > outwards?

> >

> > "The self-existent damned the out-going senses. Therefore one sees

> > externally and not the internal Self. - Katha Upanishad "

> >

> > Om Shanti

> > Kathirasan

> >

> Srigurubhyo NamaH

>

> Namaste Kathirasan ji,

> Just recalled a few instances which are mentioned below:

>

> In the Mundaka Upanishad I.2.mantras 8,9 and 10 we have the

> following usages:

>

> avidyAyAm antare vartamAnAH....panditam manyamAnAH....mUDhAH..

> (Ramaining within the fold of ignorance and thinking 'We are

> ouselves wise and learned', the fools, while being buffeted very

> much, ramble about like the blind led by the blind.)

>

> There is the word 'bAlAH' meaning literally children, in this

> context, unenlightened.

>

> Again, in the 10th mantra, there appears the word 'pra-mUDhAH', the

> deluded fools. Here the Bhashyam says://... who are so because of

> their infatuation for sons, cattle, friends, etc.. do not understand

> the other thing called the knowledge of the Self. //

>

> Again, in the BrihadaraNyaka Upanishad 3.5.1 bhashyam, the Acharya

> says (towards the end)...// It is only the fool without the strength

> of knowledge who is attracted by his organs to desires concerning

> objects, visible or invisible. //

>

> In the Gita bhashya V.22 we have the Acharya saying:// atyanta-

> mUDhAnaam eva hi.....Meaning: It is only quite deluded fools that

> are, like cattle and the like, found to rejoice in the sense-

> objects.//

>

> At least in the earlier quotes, the ignorant man was called a fool

> for seeking worldly wealth, cattle, etc. Here, in the last cited

> quote, the Acharya compares the ignorant man to cattle themselves.

> What a strong indictment !!

>

> The surprise is, all these quotes exactly fit into the very quote

> you have given above. So, are we not thinking 'in tune' with the

> scriptures/Bhashya ? Good.

>

> Pranams,

> subbu

> Om Tat Sat

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

I find tthat in my previous mail the word 'muh' has been wrongly typed by me

as 'mun'. The verbal root is 'muh' which means 'to be deluded'.

S.N.Sastri

 

 

On 9/29/06, S.N. Sastri <sn.sastri > wrote:

>

> The word mUDha is derived from the verb 'mun' which means 'to be deluded'.

> So mUDha does not mean a person devoid of intelligence. It means one who is

> deluded by mAyA. So every one except the jnAni is a mUdha. As regards

> comparison with cattle, SrI Sankara says in adhyAsa bhAshya that even

> learned people are like the cow which goes towards a person who has grass in

> his hand and runs away from one who has a stick.. He has said this to stress

> the fact that emotions such as desire, fear, etc, will remain until

> realization. The taitt. up. says that all the gods are afraid of the supreme

> being, to show that even gods are not free from fear. This is all said only

> to point out the greatness of realization and not to denigrate all human

> beings.

>

> On 9/28/06, subrahmanian_v <subrahmanian_v > wrote:

> >

> > advaitin, "K Kathirasan" <brahmasatyam

> > wrote:

> > >

> > > namaste Sundarji,

> > >

> > > I believe Shankara uses this story quite a fair bit in his works

> > but

> > > does he use the word 'fools' explicitly? The error that we all

> > commit

> > > unknowingly, which is adhyasa, is natural to all human beings. So

> > > don't you think the word 'fool' is too strong a word to indicate

> > > people who are natually ignorant due to the senses which only go

> > > outwards?

> > >

> > > "The self-existent damned the out-going senses. Therefore one sees

> > > externally and not the internal Self. - Katha Upanishad "

> > >

> > > Om Shanti

> > > Kathirasan

> > >

> > Srigurubhyo NamaH

> >

> > Namaste Kathirasan ji,

> > Just recalled a few instances which are mentioned below:

> >

> > In the Mundaka Upanishad I.2.mantras 8,9 and 10 we have the

> > following usages:

> >

> > avidyAyAm antare vartamAnAH....panditam manyamAnAH....mUDhAH..

> > (Ramaining within the fold of ignorance and thinking 'We are

> > ouselves wise and learned', the fools, while being buffeted very

> > much, ramble about like the blind led by the blind.)

> >

> > There is the word 'bAlAH' meaning literally children, in this

> > context, unenlightened.

> >

> > Again, in the 10th mantra, there appears the word 'pra-mUDhAH', the

> > deluded fools. Here the Bhashyam says://... who are so because of

> > their infatuation for sons, cattle, friends, etc.. do not understand

> > the other thing called the knowledge of the Self. //

> >

> > Again, in the BrihadaraNyaka Upanishad 3.5.1 bhashyam, the Acharya

> > says (towards the end)...// It is only the fool without the strength

> > of knowledge who is attracted by his organs to desires concerning

> > objects, visible or invisible. //

> >

> > In the Gita bhashya V.22 we have the Acharya saying:// atyanta-

> > mUDhAnaam eva hi.....Meaning: It is only quite deluded fools that

> > are, like cattle and the like, found to rejoice in the sense-

> > objects.//

> >

> > At least in the earlier quotes, the ignorant man was called a fool

> > for seeking worldly wealth, cattle, etc. Here, in the last cited

> > quote, the Acharya compares the ignorant man to cattle themselves.

> > What a strong indictment !!

> >

> > The surprise is, all these quotes exactly fit into the very quote

> > you have given above. So, are we not thinking 'in tune' with the

> > scriptures/Bhashya ? Good.

> >

> > Pranams,

> > subbu

> > Om Tat Sat

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

On 9/29/06, subrahmanian_v <subrahmanian_v > wrote:

>

> advaitin, "S.N. Sastri" <sn.sastri wrote:

> >

> > I find tthat in my previous mail the word 'muh' has been wrongly

> typed by me

> > as 'mun'. The verbal root is 'muh' which means 'to be deluded'.

> > S.N.Sastri

>

> Namaste,

>

> The word 'mUrkhaH' presented itself to my mind. Somehow it occurred

> to me that it means the same as 'mUDhaH'. When i looked up

> the 'amarakosha', to my surprise, both these words, along with another

> four, are listed in one group, as synonyms:

>

> a~jnaH, mUDhaH, yathA-jaataH, mUrkhaH, vaidheyaH and bAlishaH (2120)

>

> The Apte Sanskrit-English dictionary too gives the same meanings to

> three words of the above list that i looked up.

>

> Regards,

> subbu

> Om Tat Sat

>

> The word mUDhAH appearing in Mundaka 1.2.7, starting with "plavA hyete"

> has been interpreted in the bhAshya as 'avivekinaH'-- people lacking in

> discrimination, which in the context means discrimination between the

> eternal and the ephemeral. In Mundaka 1.2.10, starrting with "ishTApUrtam"

> the word pramUDhAH has been explained as those who are deluded by intense

> attachment to son, cattle, relations, etc.

 

Such people are considered foolish because they are content with petty

transient pleasures and do not strive for the supreme bliss of liberation. A

saint is said to have told the persons who prostrated before him, "You are

superior to me because I have renounced only the petty worldly pleasures

whereas you have renounced the highest bliss".

S.N.Sastri

 

 

 

>

>

>

>

>