Guest guest Posted October 1, 2006 Report Share Posted October 1, 2006 Om Namo Narayanaya. Towards the end of his posts on Advaita and Patanjali Yoga Sutras (message 33111, Sept 8), Ramesh Krishnamurthyji posted the following: ============================================================= naiShkarmyasiddhi 1.52 describes the advaitic path: nityakarmAnuShThAnAt dharma utpattiH dharma utpatteH pApa hAniH tataH citta SuddhiH tatah saMsArayAthAtmi AvabodhaH tataH vairAgyaM tataH mumuxatvaM tataH tat upAya paryeShaNam tataH sarva karma tat sAdhana sannyAsaH tataH yogAbhyAsaH tataH cittasya pratyag pravaNatA tataH `tat tvam asi' Adi vAkyArtha parijnAnam tataH avidyA ucchedaH tataH cha svAtmani eva avasthAnam The performance of nityakarma yields dharma dharma destroys pApa (sin) then comes citta Suddhi then the understanding of saMsAra then vairAgya then mumuxatvaM then the search for the means (of liberation) then the renunciation of karma through sannyAsa then *yogAbhyAsa* then concentration of the citta then the understanding of statements like 'tat tvam asi' then the destruction of avidyA then being settled in the Self alone ========================================================= My questions: 1) Is the citta suddhi mentioned here the same as that of the "stitha-pragnya" in Geeta Chapter 2.55-57? If not, what are the characteristics of one who has achieved citta-suddhi? 2) What does the term "the understanding of samsara mean?" 3) why is mumukshatvam so far down the line (in this list)? I would have thought mumukshatvam is an essential requirement and only after acquiring that intense desire for liberation does a sadhaka strive for purity in all aspects? Please bear with me if the questions are totally off. Pranams. Veena. -- Sarvam ShreeKrishnaayaSamarpayami. Om Namo Narayanaya...!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 2, 2006 Report Share Posted October 2, 2006 On 10/1/06, Veena Nair <nairvee > wrote: > > Om Namo Narayanaya. > Towards the end of his posts on Advaita and Patanjali Yoga Sutras (message > 33111, Sept 8), Ramesh Krishnamurthyji posted the following: > > ============================================================= > naiShkarmyasiddhi 1.52 describes the advaitic path: > > nityakarmAnuShThAnAt dharma utpattiH > dharma utpatteH pApa hAniH > tataH citta SuddhiH > tatah saMsArayAthAtmi AvabodhaH > tataH vairAgyaM > tataH mumuxatvaM > tataH tat upAya paryeShaNam > tataH sarva karma tat sAdhana sannyAsaH > tataH yogAbhyAsaH > tataH cittasya pratyag pravaNatA > tataH `tat tvam asi' Adi vAkyArtha parijnAnam > tataH avidyA ucchedaH > tataH cha svAtmani eva avasthAnam > > The performance of nityakarma yields dharma > dharma destroys pApa (sin) > then comes citta Suddhi > then the understanding of saMsAra > then vairAgya > then mumuxatvaM > then the search for the means (of liberation) > then the renunciation of karma through sannyAsa > then *yogAbhyAsa* > then concentration of the citta > then the understanding of statements like 'tat tvam asi' > then the destruction of avidyA > then being settled in the Self alone > ========================================================= > > My questions: > 1) Is the citta suddhi mentioned here the same as that of > the "stitha-pragnya" in Geeta Chapter 2.55-57? If not, what are the > characteristics of one who has achieved citta-suddhi? > 2) What does the term "the understanding of samsara mean?" > 3) why is mumukshatvam so far down the line (in this list)? I would have > thought mumukshatvam is an essential requirement and only after acquiring > that intense desire for liberation does a sadhaka strive for purity in all > aspects? > Veena. > -- 1. citta Suddhi means the mind becoming free from worldly desires and the consequent emotions such as anger, greed, delusion, pride, jealousy, etc. This is only one of the preliminary requisites for a sAdhaka. sthitaprajna is the same as jivanmukta, which is the ultimate goal. 2. The expression in the sloka is ' samsAra-yAthAtmya-avabodhaH', which means ' knowing the real nature of samsAra or bondage', i.e. knowing that it is not real and that it can be eradicated only by the realization of the Self. 3. mumukshutvam is not mere desire for liberation existing as one among various other desires. It is desire for liberation, and liberation alone, without even a trace of any other desire, including the desire for the pleasures of heaven. SrI Sankara says in his bhAshya on gItA 4.11- It is impossible for the same person to be a seeker of liberation and also a seeker of the fruits of action at the same time. The idea is that only a person who is totally free from desires of all kinds can be termed a numukshu. This is why it is put as the last of the sAdhanacatushTayam. Though the desire for liberation has to be there from the very beginning, it can be considered as 'mumukshutvam' only after one has acquired the first three requisites- nitya-anityavastuviveka, vairagya, and sama, dama, etc. S,N,Sastri > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 2, 2006 Report Share Posted October 2, 2006 Greetings to all Vedantins on the most auspicious occasion of Vijaya Dashami. Pranams Veena-ji This is my understanding. When we fulfil our wordly duties and desires, but in a manner that is keeping with dharma, a relative purity of mind ensues. Why? Because we are avoiding mental agitations of greed,guilt, etc that invariably accompany treading the path of adharma. Once we are blessed with this relative quietitude and purity of mind, our minds acquire a capacity to begin to discern the ephemerality of the joys of the world. It begins to dawn on us that the so-called joys of the world that we mortals hanker after such as wealth, progeny, power, position, fame, etc are nonlasting and in reality are sources of immense sorrow. Every oasis is a mirage. We are now able to see through Maya's game as it were! This capacity to discriminate is viveka. This is also what understanding of samsara means. [Everyone of us here on this list is already blessed with this which is why we are here and not on a discussion board on how to make money in stocks, etc] Only by true acquisition of viveka do our inner equipments develop in them vairagya or dispassion. Vairagya is not the deliberate turning away from objects we think are or may be valuable, but a natural dispassion towards things we have no doubt have zero value. It is similair to an older childs attitude towards the toys he had as a three year old. These were the very same toys he had cried for, begged and cajoled for, pined for, derived some temporary wonderful joy from, but now is mature enough to not have any taste for them whatsoever. This vairagya can and usually does take years to firmly develop. Only when vairagya is firmly and lastingly entrenched in our minds is mumukshutvam truly possible. Because mumukshutvam represents an intense desire to be full, to end my seeking nature, to find an eternal peace, to find my true nature, to know Ishwara. Every other desire or even a trace of it that we might entertain will have to be swallowed up by adequate viveka and vairagya, else true mumukshutvam is not possible. Hence it is that it comes lower on the list. Not that it is less important - you are right - it is the most essential ingredient for a seeker - but each one of the steps mentioned comes in a logical sequential order. Trust this clarifies Hari OM Shri Gurubhyo namah Shyam --- Veena Nair <nairvee > wrote: > Om Namo Narayanaya. > Towards the end of his posts on Advaita and > Patanjali Yoga Sutras (message > 33111, Sept 8), Ramesh Krishnamurthyji posted the > following: > > ============================================================= > naiShkarmyasiddhi 1.52 describes the advaitic path: > > nityakarmAnuShThAnAt dharma utpattiH > dharma utpatteH pApa hAniH > tataH citta SuddhiH > tatah saMsArayAthAtmi AvabodhaH > tataH vairAgyaM > tataH mumuxatvaM > tataH tat upAya paryeShaNam > tataH sarva karma tat sAdhana sannyAsaH > tataH yogAbhyAsaH > tataH cittasya pratyag pravaNatA > tataH `tat tvam asi' Adi vAkyArtha parijnAnam > tataH avidyA ucchedaH > tataH cha svAtmani eva avasthAnam > > The performance of nityakarma yields dharma > dharma destroys pApa (sin) > then comes citta Suddhi > then the understanding of saMsAra > then vairAgya > then mumuxatvaM > then the search for the means (of liberation) > then the renunciation of karma through sannyAsa > then *yogAbhyAsa* > then concentration of the citta > then the understanding of statements like 'tat tvam > asi' > then the destruction of avidyA > then being settled in the Self alone > ========================================================= > > My questions: > 1) Is the citta suddhi mentioned here the same as > that of > the "stitha-pragnya" in Geeta Chapter 2.55-57? If > not, what are the > characteristics of one who has achieved > citta-suddhi? > 2) What does the term "the understanding of samsara > mean?" > 3) why is mumukshatvam so far down the line (in this > list)? I would have > thought mumukshatvam is an essential requirement and > only after acquiring > that intense desire for liberation does a sadhaka > strive for purity in all > aspects? > Please bear with me if the questions are totally > off. > Pranams. > Veena. > -- > Sarvam ShreeKrishnaayaSamarpayami. > Om Namo Narayanaya...!! > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been > removed] > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 2, 2006 Report Share Posted October 2, 2006 Namaste Veena-ji and Sastri-ji advaitin, "S.N. Sastri" <sn.sastri wrote: > > On 10/1/06, Veena Nair <nairvee wrote: > > > > > > 1. citta Suddhi means the mind becoming free from worldly desires and the > consequent emotions such as anger, greed, delusion, pride, jealousy, etc. > This is only one of the preliminary requisites for a sAdhaka. sthitaprajna > is the same as jivanmukta, which is the ultimate goal. > Sastri-ji has explained citta Suddhi very well. I would like to add to that if I may: Citta suddhi is inferred from its results - the gradual onset of viveka and vairagya (dispassion) as the mind gets purified gradually. Lord Krishna refers to the result of citta suddhi in Gita 2.52 (http://www.gitasupersite.iitk.ac.in/) : // 2.52 When your mind will go beyond the turbidity of delusion, then you will acquire dispassion for what has to be heard and what has been heard. // and Sankara's commentary is worthwhile reading here: // 2.52 When is attained that wisdom which arises from the purification of the mind brought about by the pursuit of (karma-) yoga? This is being stated: Yada, when, [Yada: when maturity of discrimination is attained.] at the time when; te, your; buddhih, mind; vyatitarisyati, will go beyond, cross over; moha-kalilam, the turbidity of delusion, the dirt in the form of delusion, in the form of non-discrimination, which, after confounding one's understanding about the distinction between the Self and the not-Self, impels the mind towards objects -- that is to say, when your mind will attain the state of purity; tada, then, [Tada: then, when the mind, becoming purified, leads to the rise of discrimination, which in turn matures into detachment.] at that time; gantasi, you will acquire; nirvedam, despassion; for srotavyasya, what has to be heard; ca, and; srutasya, what has been heard. The idea implied is that, at that time what has to be heard and what has been heard [What has to be heard...has been heard, i.e. the scriptures other than those relating to Self-knowledge. When discrimination referred to above gets matured, then the fruitlessness of all things other than Self-knowledge becomes apparent.] becomes fruitless. // Another aspect to look at is Citta suddhi's connection to ekagratha (one-pointedness). Sankara poses a question "To what purpose should he concentrate his mind?" in Gita verse 6.12 and responds // In answer the Lord says: atma-visuddhaye, for the purification of the internal organ. How? Krtva, making; manah, the mind; ekagram, one-pointed,by withdrawing it from all objects; and yata-citta- indriya-kriyah, keeping the actions (kriyah) of the mind (citta) and senses (indriya) under control (yata). // and this little snippet from Sri Ramana may be appropriate here as well (http://www.hermetic-philosophy.com/5.htm) : // A Telugu gentleman asked about Karma Yoga. Sri Bhagavan said: The person should act as an actor on the stage. In all actions there is the sat as the underlying principle. "Remember it and act." He asked about the purity of mind (chitta suddhi). Sri Bhagavan said: Chitta suddhi is to engage in one thought only to the exclusion of all others. It is also called one-pointedness of the mind. The practice of meditation purifies the mind. // Pranams on this Vijaya Dasmai day, Sundar Rajan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You are posting as a guest. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.