A small piece on the Reflection concept - Atma - I

[Guest guest]

Dear Lakshmi ji

 

Chandrashekhar ji gave some reference,out of his

experience/knoweldge.

 

I tried to understand and think it fully ,within my limitations and

found them as helpful towards further understanding of Truths.

 

During an internet search ,i could find the same.It is mentioned

that Lord Rama and Lord krishna got intiated (deeksha during soorya

grahana).

 

I do not know nothing more than this.Kindly interpret using the best

of your abiltities and your likes/dislikes.Everybody is right,except

for the relativity or proximity or degree of ''rightness''.

 

Pls find the link as you wished.

 

http://www.siddhashram.org/s20000637.shtml

 

Thanks

Pradeep

 

, "b_lakshmi_ramesh"

<b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote:

>

> Om Gurave Namah

>

> Namaste Pradeep,

>

> Can you please give the link itself? I want to understand

> whether "deeksha" as mentioned by you meant "mantra initiation"

> or "mantra japa/other observances". The latter is the normal

> occurrance and undertaken by every second Hindu.

>

> Do you mean that Sri Rama and sri Krishna received mantra

initiation

> during solar eclipse? Can you show me some confirmation regarding

> this from Ramayana/Bhagavatham? Does the link mention them?

>

> Regards,

> Lakshmi

>

> , "vijayadas_pradeep"

> <vijayadas_pradeep@> wrote:

> >

> > Dear Chandrashekhar ji

> >

> > I am posting the search result for the benefit of others.

> >

> > The great importance of eclipses is well reflected in the events

of

> > lives of the great Avataars (incarnations). Lord Ram for example

> had

> > Diksha from his Guru at a time when an eclipse was going on.

> Similarly

> > Lord Krishna had Diksha during an eclipse. And the reason for

this

> is

> > that during these moments it is very easy for the disciple to

> imbibe

> > fully the energy transferred into him by the Guru.

> >

> > The battle of Mahabharat was about to begin. The army of the

> Kauravs

> > was ready for the battle and its great warriors like Bheeshm,

> > Dronacharya, Karna were mounted on their chariots. On the other

> side

> > the army of the Pandavs too stood ready waiting for the battle

> trumpet

> > to sound. The Pandavs asked Lord Krishna to give his assent for

> > starting the fight. But Lord Krishna stopped them.

> >

> > He said - If the war starts now, any side would be likely to

win.

> But

> > a few moments from now a solar eclipse is about to begin and if

the

> > war bugle is sounded then the Pandavs shall surely win. Lord

> Krishna

> > had realised the significance of the moments of eclipse and

> history is

> > a witness that all Kauravs were killed, while the five Pandavs

> > remained unharmed just because the war was started at the right

> moment

> >

> > Respect

> > Pradeep

> > , Chandrashekhar

> > <chandrashekhar46@> wrote:

> > >

> > > Dear Pradeep,

> > >

> > > I am glad for the reference. It seems I wan not wrong in my

> > > understanding of the reason or the Muhurta for Deeksha.

> > >

> > > Take care,

> > >

> > > Chandrashekhar.

> > >

> > > vijayadas_pradeep wrote:

> > > >

> > > > Dear Chandrashekhar ji

> > > >

> > > > Thanks for the correction/giuidance.I made a quick search

and

> found

> > > > -Lord Rama, Krishna taking deeksha during Soorya Grahana.

> > > >

> > > > Respect

> > > > Pradeep

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > <%40>, Chandrashekhar

> > > > <chandrashekhar46@> wrote:

> > > > >

> > > > > Dear Pradeep,

> > > > >

> > > > > That is one way of looking at it. Deeksha is in a way self

> devotion

> > > > to a

> > > > > person (guru) or god ( for the person taking

> deeksha)/dedication

> > and if

> > > > > one has ego he will simply not be able to do this. That is

> why Surya

> > > > > eclipse is the most important muhurta to give deeksha. Or

at

> > least that

> > > > > is my understanding.

> > > > >

> > > > > Take care,

> > > > >

> > > > > Chandrashekhar.

> > > > >

> > > > > vijayadas_pradeep wrote:

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Dear Chandrashekhar ji

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Thanks for guiding me.

> > > > > > Also i feel deeksha is for direction and direction is

> light.If we

> > > > > > think we have all the light then there is no room for

> light to

> > > > come in.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Respect

> > > > > > Pradeep

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > <%40>

> > > > > > <%40>, Chandrashekhar

> > > > > > <chandrashekhar46@> wrote:

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Dear Pradeep,

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > You did understand what I was telling about deekksha

and

> the

> > > > reason why

> > > > > > > Surya grahana is very auspicious for giving Deeksha.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Chandrashekhar.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > vijayadas_pradeep wrote:

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Dear Lakshmi ji

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > 1)Brahman has no feelings.How about the mirror within

> > you?.Did you

> > > > > > > > notice myslef equating water to MIND.Literal

meanings

> may

> > not help

> > > > > > > > us.Kindly attempt again.Infact the literal

> interpretation from

> > > > your

> > > > > > > > part did reduce my passion to reply.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > 2)Manas Ahankara etc are Jadas.Para prakrithi has to

> enliven

> > > > > > > > this.Thought arises from a thinker.It is upto you to

> > decide and

> > > > > > > > remain happy at thought level.For me dual identity

(ego

> > > > thought) is a

> > > > > > > > false identification of a thinker who has forgotten

> his real

> > > > > > > > identity.But this identity has a purpose.Karma and

HIS

> > > > > > > > leelas.Brahman has no false identity at all.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > 3)Mata Amritanda Mayi says when lovers talk to each

> other they

> > > > > > > > experience Ananda.Similarly we have kamuki kamuka

> bhava within

> > > > > > > > us.SHE bhava is Jeevatma and HE bhava is

Paramatma.If

> we

> > try to

> > > > > > > > understand this statement of AMMA we will know in

> reality

> > there is

> > > > > > > > only a bindu.When the unclear extends the clear

> > manifests.When the

> > > > > > > > chaitanya behind manifested returns ,they become

> one.But this

> > > > > > > > extension always results in ''I'' feeling.This is

> needed for

> > > > > > > > discharging Karma.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > 4)I feel if we stop these verbal exchanges and can

do

> a self

> > > > > > > > seeking,things would be more clear.Close your

eyes,sit

> in

> > silence

> > > > > > > > with no thought - No Space no Mind no Time.Slowly

open

> your

> > > > eyes and

> > > > > > > > release breath.Space/Mind/Time all can be

> > understood.Tattwa behind

> > > > > > > > Universe will unfold for you.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > 3)Jyotish is not for realized souls.It is for those

> within the

> > > > > > > > clutches of Space and Time.Hence in jyotish, Surya

> > represents the

> > > > > > > > Atma of Kalapurusha.He is Divakara and Moon

> Nishakara.They

> > > > rule half

> > > > > > > > the rashis each and both are kings.Mutual dependence

is

> > not about

> > > > > > > > existence but for discharging functions.

> (Paurusha/Karya sidhis

> > > > > > > > through atma and mana prabhavas respectively).

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Pramana.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Atma Sahethi Manasa Mana Indriyena

> > > > > > > > Swardhena Chendriyagana Krama Evamesha

> > > > > > > > Yogoyameva Manasa KimaGamyamasthi

> > > > > > > > Yasmin Mano Prajathi Tathra GathoyaMatma ithi

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Atma moves along with mind,Mind with

Indriyas,Indriyas

> with

> > > > > > > > Vishayas ...the general order.What cannot be

achieved

> if

> > there is

> > > > > > > > yoga of mind?.Wherever Mind goes so goes Atma.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Also - ''Atma ManasorithareyTharashrayatwat

> > > > SooryaChandraMasorEkasya

> > > > > > > > Balawat Itharasya Balisidhi'' - Due to mutual

> dependence of

> > > > Sun and

> > > > > > > > Moon, srength of one renders the other strong.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > 3)Atmakaraka - It is fine.Now please explain why,

one

> with

> > - Chara

> > > > > > > > atma karaka as Sun should try to overcome ego and

> become

> > > > humble'' .

> > > > > > > > This i feel will end all our doubts.If you remember

our

> > > > debates got

> > > > > > > > started because of Chandrashekhar jis point.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > 4)Mantra is for mind and through Mantra sidhi mind

will

> > stay tuned

> > > > > > > > (Yoga), with what it has to.During Grahana there is

a

> forced

> > > > > > > > detachment(influence of Sun) and one will submit

> oneself

> > to Guru

> > > > > > > > without a dual feeling or ego.Chandrashekhar ji may

> > correct me.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Thanks

> > > > > > > > Pradeep

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > <%40>

> > > > > > <%40>

> > > > > > > > <%

> 40>, "b_lakshmi_ramesh"

> > > > > > > > <b_lakshmi_ramesh@> wrote:

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Om Gurave Namah

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Namaste Pradeep,

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > My understanding is no better than yours :--)),

and

> yes,

> > both of

> > > > > > > > us

> > > > > > > > > are benefiting from this discussion.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Ok, let's take your example of reflection on

water.

> As

> > you said,

> > > > > > > > > when a stone is thrown the image is shattered.

It's

> fine

> > > > thus far

> > > > > > > > > and I agree with you.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > You also said that that the reflection attaches

> itself with

> > > > water

> > > > > > > > > and feels shattered/happy. How do you know if

this?

> Have you

> > > > seen

> > > > > > > > > the reflection wince in pain, have you seen it

grin

> in

> > pleasure?

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Suppose I stand before a mirror, I see my

> reflection, when I

> > > > move

> > > > > > > > it

> > > > > > > > > moves, when I laugh, it laughs, when I grimace, it

> also

> > does so.

> > > > > > > > The

> > > > > > > > > reflection at all times is of me and never becomes

> the

> > property

> > > > > > > > of

> > > > > > > > > the mirror and reflect its sentiments. Suppose I

move

> > away, will

> > > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > reflection stay back with the mirror? Is the

> reflection of

> > > > > > > > Brahman

> > > > > > > > > capable of showing any feeling, which is not shown

> on the

> > > > Brahman...

> > > > > > > > > which is independent of Brahman? And is the Brahman

> > subject to

> > > > > > > > > feelings?

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Ahankaara

> > > > > > > > > ---------------

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > In Jnana-vijnana yoga (Chapter 7) from

Bhagavadgita,

> the

> > Lord

> > > > > > > > says

> > > > > > > > > thus...

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > bhūmir āpo 'nalo vāyuḥ

> > > > > > > > > khaḿ mano buddhir eva ca

> > > > > > > > > ahańkāra itīyaḿ me

> > > > > > > > > bhinnā prakṛtir aṣṭadhā

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > The mind, intellect, ego, ether, air, fire, water,

> and

> > earth are

> > > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > eightfold transformation of My Prakriti.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > apareyam itas tv anyāḿ

> > > > > > > > > prakṛtiḿ viddhi me parām

> > > > > > > > > jīva-bhūtāḿ mahā-

bāho

> > > > > > > > > yayedaḿ dhāryate jagat

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > This Prakriti is My lower energy. My other higher

> energy

> > is the

> > > > > > > > > Purusha by which this entire universe is

sustained, O

> > Arjuna.

> > > > > > > > > Clearly linking "ego" with Prakriti and not with

> Purusha.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > I have earlier also quoted from puranas (srishti

> krama),

> > > > about the

> > > > > > > > > constituents of ahamkaara, I eagerly await your

> response

> > for the

> > > > > > > > > same and the above.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Soul or reflection of soul?

> > > > > > > > > -

> > > > > > > > > From Chapter 10 (Vibhuti yoga), Bhagavan also says

> that

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > aham ātmā guḍākeśa

> > > > > > > > > sarva-bhūtāśaya-sthitaḥ

> > > > > > > > > aham ādiś ca madhyaḿ ca

> > > > > > > > > bhūtānām anta eva ca

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > I am the Supersoul, O Arjuna, seated in the hearts

of

> > all living

> > > > > > > > > entities. I am the beginning, the middle and the

end

> of all

> > > > beings.

> > > > > > > > > The Lord Himself says that He is the soul within

> every

> > living

> > > > > > > > thing,

> > > > > > > > > so how can we not believe Him? :--)) He's the

> Jeevatma as

> > > > well as

> > > > > > > > > the Paramatma.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Atmakaraka

> > > > > > > > > ----------------

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Please refer to my previous mail to Sundeep ji

> regarding the

> > > > > > > > > difference between Atma and AK. Please also refer

to

> the

> > > > shloka 31

> > > > > > > > > of chapter 34 in BPHS, which defines what's to be

> seen from

> > > > > > > > > Atmakaraka....janasya janmalagna yat

> > > > vidyaadaatmakaarakaH...saying

> > > > > > > > that

> > > > > > > > > the atmakaraka stands for the ascendant,

indicating

> the

> > person,

> > > > > > > > his

> > > > > > > > > body etc...all that the ascendant generally stands

> for.

> > Now, the

> > > > > > > > > question is should soul be judged from ascendant?

If

> so,

> > what's

> > > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > purpose of Surya lagna and the concept of tripod

of

> life?

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Infact, the shlokas 31-34 in BPHS (chapter 34)

talk

> about

> > > > how one

> > > > > > > > > can assess wife (darakaraka) from significations

of

> the 2nd

> > > > house

> > > > > > > > > etc. Nowhere any mention is made of intangible

things

> > like soul,

> > > > > > > > > mind etc. If you have any other shloka/pramana to

say

> > that AK

> > > > > > > > > indicates Soul and not the Native, please let me

> know. That

> > > > would

> > > > > > > > > indeed benefit me.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Hence, AK is a term for the "native

(soul+mind+body)"

> > and is not

> > > > > > > > > used as a significator of the soul....I hope the

> > confusion is

> > > > > > > > cleared

> > > > > > > > > now.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Grahana-time

> > > > > > > > > ----------------

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > I have no knowledge/information regarding solar

> eclipse

> > > > being the

> > > > > > > > > best time for "mantra initiation". I only know that

> > grahana time

> > > > > > > > > should be avoided for all events. I am sure

> Chandrasekhar ji

> > > > would

> > > > > > > > > know better. However, it would be nice if he can

> give some

> > > > > > > > > referable/verifiable links/sources regarding this,

> it would

> > > > > > > > benefit

> > > > > > > > > all of us.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > However, I do know that people observe deeksha

> > (austerities) and

> > > > > > > > > mantra japa during eclipses. The definition

> of "mantra"

> > as you

> > > > > > > > > probably know very well is "mananaat trayathe iti

> mantraH",

> > > > > > > > > meaning "that" by whose constant thinking or

> recollection,

> > > > one is

> > > > > > > > > protected/released from the round of birth and

> death. I have

> > > > also

> > > > > > > > > read another definition that mantra is one which

> > protects (tra)

> > > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > mind(man). so I am sure you understand why mantra

> japa is

> > > > > > > > > stipulated at grahana time, and whom it's supposed

to

> > protect.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > It is also said that mantra japa during grahana

> yields

> > > > > > > > > greater/faster results, as does any spiritual

effort

> > undertaken

> > > > > > > > > during kali yuga (both are dark times). Guru is the

> > karaka for

> > > > > > > > > mantra japa, religious austerities, and Guru is the

> > remover of

> > > > > > > > > darkness.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Now, who is denied the light during grahana times?

> It's

> > 1) the

> > > > > > > > > earth/body and 2) the moon/mind. Both the mind and

> body need

> > > > light

> > > > > > > > > for their survival and hence need to be protected

> during

> > > > this dark

> > > > > > > > > time, so we invoke Guru, who protects one from

inner

> > > > grahana. And,

> > > > > > > > > Guru guides Chandra, not Surya:--))

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > It's mentioned in Vishnu purana, that there's a

> category

> > of dark

> > > > > > > > > forces called "Mandeha", who try to block Sun,

during

> > sandhya

> > > > > > > > time.

> > > > > > > > > The effect of Gayatri japam is said to defeat

those

> asuric

> > > > > > > > forces.

> > > > > > > > > So, mantra japa at all times is to ward off dark

> forces and

> > > > > > > > preserve

> > > > > > > > > Light. Matri devobhava (for bringing us out of the

> > darkness of

> > > > > > > > womb

> > > > > > > > > and giving us apara vidya), pitridevo

> bhava...acharya devo

> > > > bhava.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > I am sure you also know what is the first mantra

> given

> > to people

> > > > > > > > and

> > > > > > > > > who gives that. So, Father is the first Guru in

> paraa vidya.

> > > > Shiva

> > > > > > > > > is the devata denoting both Surya & Guru!!

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > These are my conclusions or feelings, if you have

any

> > > > evidence to

> > > > > > > > > the contrary, I will stand corrected:--))

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Can I request you again to respond to the specific

> > references

> > > > > > > > (from

> > > > > > > > > Bhagavad gita and puranas) I have given about

> ahamkaara

> > being a

> > > > > > > > part

> > > > > > > > > of the nature of prakriti and not of Purusha? Also

> about

> > Shiva-

> > > > > > > > > shakti / Soul-mind tattwa? I am sorry if you have

> already

> > > > > > > > responded

> > > > > > > > > to them and I have not noticed.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Regards,

> > > > > > > > > Lakshmi

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > <%40>

> > > > > > <%40>

> > > > > > > > <%

> 40>, "vijayadas_pradeep"

> > > > > > > > > <vijayadas_pradeep@> wrote:

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Dear Lakshmi ji

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > I am writing a a small piece from my limited

> > > > understanding,based

> > > > > > > > > on

> > > > > > > > > > Shankaras term reflection.Imagine a pratibimba or

> > > > reflection of

> > > > > > > > > Sun

> > > > > > > > > > on water.Water has to be understood as

> mind.Pratibimba

> > > > attaches

> > > > > > > > > > itself with water.In reality it is not.Now assume

> > someone is

> > > > > > > > > > throwing a small stone.what will happen?The

> pratibimba

> > gets

> > > > > > > > > > shattered and thinks oh i am torn.When the waves

> in water

> > > > stops

> > > > > > > > > > pratibimba is happy again.These waves are

feelings

> in

> > > > mind.stone

> > > > > > > > > is

> > > > > > > > > > external impact.Pratibima does not know who he

> is.In

> > > > reality he

> > > > > > > > is

> > > > > > > > > > the light of sun.Attachment with water gives him

> seperate

> > > > > > > > > reflected

> > > > > > > > > > identity.But as soon as Pratibimba realizes ,as

i

> am

> > ''because

> > > > > > > > of

> > > > > > > > > > HIM nothing is happening to me with a stone'' all

> > worries are

> > > > > > > > > > gone.Similarly everything in this world is a

> reflection of

> > > > > > > > > > Brahman.HE has many Maya Leelas.With Nama and

> Roopa,as

> > a first

> > > > > > > > > step,

> > > > > > > > > > we should only understand that ''I am his

> reflection

> > and hence

> > > > > > > > > > HIM''.Dont ever equate us to HIM in dual

state.It

> is

> > height of

> > > > > > > > > > AHAMKARA.Total merger is like drying up of

> water.Jeevatma

> > > > is his

> > > > > > > > > own

> > > > > > > > > > light but identification with

prakriti/mind/water

> gives

> > > > > > > > reflected

> > > > > > > > > > seperate identity.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Still if it is not clear - Please think why shri

> > Sanjay Rath

> > > > > > > > > states

> > > > > > > > > > in his articles --''If Sun is the chara Atma

Karaka

> > the person

> > > > > > > > > > should learn to overcome his ''---''.What is

that

> 3 letter

> > > > word.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > If Chara has that effect what about influence of

> > > > sthira?Will you

> > > > > > > > > > still hang on to Rahu.Universal Truths are

> > > > objective.Objectivity

> > > > > > > > > is

> > > > > > > > > > consistent.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Kindly attend to Chandrashekhar jis question -

> Mantra

> > > > deeksha and

> > > > > > > > > > Grahana.We have to accept mistakes to go

forward.It

> > increases

> > > > > > > > our

> > > > > > > > > > value.How is value addition happening?Acceptance

is

> > > > reduction in

> > > > > > > > > > EGO,and reduction is reduction of ignorance and

> closer to

> > > > > > > > > > realization.This proximity is the value addition.

> > > > > > > > > > Wishing you all the best.Your questions are

> brilliant and

> > > > > > > > helping

> > > > > > > > > > both of us.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Pradeep

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > ------------------------

-

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.12.8/455 -

> Release

> > Date:

> > > > > > 9/22/2006

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

[Guest guest]

Om Gurave Namah

 

Namaste Pradeep,

 

Thanks for the link, and based on that I made a few searches on the

internet myself. According to this link, and many similar links

 

http://lakdiva.org/aryan/rama.html

 

the solar eclipses recorded in Ramayana occured when Sri Rama was in

exile. I do not think that Sage Vasistha was around to give mantra

initiation at that time. But I am sure Sri Rama performed mantra

japa and the other prescribed procedure at the time of solar

eclipse.

 

Same is the case with Sri Krishna. Infact, Sage Veda Vyasa was

emphatic in describing the period of 2 eclipses occuring within 13

days as an inauspicious period. The same is said to have occured

when Yadu dynasty perished.

 

http://www.boloji.com/astro/00325.htm

 

Tantra

------

 

Tantra is a different branch of beliefs/set of procedures which may

not match with vaidik traditions, hence are not routinely

applicable. Tantra philosophy is great to read about and learn

from...I do respect them, but frankly, I wouldn't want my son to

follow tantric rituals, with pancha "ma"kaaraas etc. What can be

achieved through tantra can also be achieved through other

paths/traditions and i would prefer my son to go through vaidik

traditions.

 

What I do not want my son to do, I would never advise others to do.

 

Regards,

Lakshmi

 

 

 

, "vijayadas_pradeep"

<vijayadas_pradeep wrote:

>

> Dear Lakshmi ji

>

> Chandrashekhar ji gave some reference,out of his

> experience/knoweldge.

>

> I tried to understand and think it fully ,within my limitations

and

> found them as helpful towards further understanding of Truths.

>

> During an internet search ,i could find the same.It is mentioned

> that Lord Rama and Lord krishna got intiated (deeksha during

soorya

> grahana).

>

> I do not know nothing more than this.Kindly interpret using the

best

> of your abiltities and your likes/dislikes.Everybody is

right,except

> for the relativity or proximity or degree of ''rightness''.

>

> Pls find the link as you wished.

>

> http://www.siddhashram.org/s20000637.shtml

>

> Thanks

> Pradeep

>

> , "b_lakshmi_ramesh"

> <b_lakshmi_ramesh@> wrote:

> >

> > Om Gurave Namah

> >

> > Namaste Pradeep,

> >

> > Can you please give the link itself? I want to understand

> > whether "deeksha" as mentioned by you meant "mantra initiation"

> > or "mantra japa/other observances". The latter is the normal

> > occurrance and undertaken by every second Hindu.

> >

> > Do you mean that Sri Rama and sri Krishna received mantra

> initiation

> > during solar eclipse? Can you show me some confirmation

regarding

> > this from Ramayana/Bhagavatham? Does the link mention them?

> >

> > Regards,

> > Lakshmi

> >

> > , "vijayadas_pradeep"

> > <vijayadas_pradeep@> wrote:

> > >

> > > Dear Chandrashekhar ji

> > >

> > > I am posting the search result for the benefit of others.

> > >

> > > The great importance of eclipses is well reflected in the

events

> of

> > > lives of the great Avataars (incarnations). Lord Ram for

example

> > had

> > > Diksha from his Guru at a time when an eclipse was going on.

> > Similarly

> > > Lord Krishna had Diksha during an eclipse. And the reason for

> this

> > is

> > > that during these moments it is very easy for the disciple to

> > imbibe

> > > fully the energy transferred into him by the Guru.

> > >

> > > The battle of Mahabharat was about to begin. The army of the

> > Kauravs

> > > was ready for the battle and its great warriors like Bheeshm,

> > > Dronacharya, Karna were mounted on their chariots. On the

other

> > side

> > > the army of the Pandavs too stood ready waiting for the battle

> > trumpet

> > > to sound. The Pandavs asked Lord Krishna to give his assent for

> > > starting the fight. But Lord Krishna stopped them.

> > >

> > > He said - If the war starts now, any side would be likely to

> win.

> > But

> > > a few moments from now a solar eclipse is about to begin and

if

> the

> > > war bugle is sounded then the Pandavs shall surely win. Lord

> > Krishna

> > > had realised the significance of the moments of eclipse and

> > history is

> > > a witness that all Kauravs were killed, while the five Pandavs

> > > remained unharmed just because the war was started at the

right

> > moment

> > >

> > > Respect

> > > Pradeep

> > > , Chandrashekhar

> > > <chandrashekhar46@> wrote:

> > > >

> > > > Dear Pradeep,

> > > >

> > > > I am glad for the reference. It seems I wan not wrong in my

> > > > understanding of the reason or the Muhurta for Deeksha.

> > > >

> > > > Take care,

> > > >

> > > > Chandrashekhar.

> > > >

> > > > vijayadas_pradeep wrote:

> > > > >

> > > > > Dear Chandrashekhar ji

> > > > >

> > > > > Thanks for the correction/giuidance.I made a quick search

> and

> > found

> > > > > -Lord Rama, Krishna taking deeksha during Soorya Grahana.

> > > > >

> > > > > Respect

> > > > > Pradeep

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > <%40>, Chandrashekhar

> > > > > <chandrashekhar46@> wrote:

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Dear Pradeep,

> > > > > >

> > > > > > That is one way of looking at it. Deeksha is in a way

self

> > devotion

> > > > > to a

> > > > > > person (guru) or god ( for the person taking

> > deeksha)/dedication

> > > and if

> > > > > > one has ego he will simply not be able to do this. That

is

> > why Surya

> > > > > > eclipse is the most important muhurta to give deeksha.

Or

> at

> > > least that

> > > > > > is my understanding.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Take care,

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Chandrashekhar.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > vijayadas_pradeep wrote:

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Dear Chandrashekhar ji

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Thanks for guiding me.

> > > > > > > Also i feel deeksha is for direction and direction is

> > light.If we

> > > > > > > think we have all the light then there is no room for

> > light to

> > > > > come in.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Respect

> > > > > > > Pradeep

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > <%40>

> > > > > > > <%40>, Chandrashekhar

> > > > > > > <chandrashekhar46@> wrote:

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Dear Pradeep,

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > You did understand what I was telling about deekksha

> and

> > the

> > > > > reason why

> > > > > > > > Surya grahana is very auspicious for giving Deeksha.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > vijayadas_pradeep wrote:

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Dear Lakshmi ji

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > 1)Brahman has no feelings.How about the mirror

within

> > > you?.Did you

> > > > > > > > > notice myslef equating water to MIND.Literal

> meanings

> > may

> > > not help

> > > > > > > > > us.Kindly attempt again.Infact the literal

> > interpretation from

> > > > > your

> > > > > > > > > part did reduce my passion to reply.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > 2)Manas Ahankara etc are Jadas.Para prakrithi has

to

> > enliven

> > > > > > > > > this.Thought arises from a thinker.It is upto you

to

> > > decide and

> > > > > > > > > remain happy at thought level.For me dual identity

> (ego

> > > > > thought) is a

> > > > > > > > > false identification of a thinker who has

forgotten

> > his real

> > > > > > > > > identity.But this identity has a purpose.Karma and

> HIS

> > > > > > > > > leelas.Brahman has no false identity at all.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > 3)Mata Amritanda Mayi says when lovers talk to

each

> > other they

> > > > > > > > > experience Ananda.Similarly we have kamuki kamuka

> > bhava within

> > > > > > > > > us.SHE bhava is Jeevatma and HE bhava is

> Paramatma.If

> > we

> > > try to

> > > > > > > > > understand this statement of AMMA we will know in

> > reality

> > > there is

> > > > > > > > > only a bindu.When the unclear extends the clear

> > > manifests.When the

> > > > > > > > > chaitanya behind manifested returns ,they become

> > one.But this

> > > > > > > > > extension always results in ''I'' feeling.This is

> > needed for

> > > > > > > > > discharging Karma.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > 4)I feel if we stop these verbal exchanges and can

> do

> > a self

> > > > > > > > > seeking,things would be more clear.Close your

> eyes,sit

> > in

> > > silence

> > > > > > > > > with no thought - No Space no Mind no Time.Slowly

> open

> > your

> > > > > eyes and

> > > > > > > > > release breath.Space/Mind/Time all can be

> > > understood.Tattwa behind

> > > > > > > > > Universe will unfold for you.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > 3)Jyotish is not for realized souls.It is for

those

> > within the

> > > > > > > > > clutches of Space and Time.Hence in jyotish, Surya

> > > represents the

> > > > > > > > > Atma of Kalapurusha.He is Divakara and Moon

> > Nishakara.They

> > > > > rule half

> > > > > > > > > the rashis each and both are kings.Mutual

dependence

> is

> > > not about

> > > > > > > > > existence but for discharging functions.

> > (Paurusha/Karya sidhis

> > > > > > > > > through atma and mana prabhavas respectively).

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Pramana.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Atma Sahethi Manasa Mana Indriyena

> > > > > > > > > Swardhena Chendriyagana Krama Evamesha

> > > > > > > > > Yogoyameva Manasa KimaGamyamasthi

> > > > > > > > > Yasmin Mano Prajathi Tathra GathoyaMatma ithi

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Atma moves along with mind,Mind with

> Indriyas,Indriyas

> > with

> > > > > > > > > Vishayas ...the general order.What cannot be

> achieved

> > if

> > > there is

> > > > > > > > > yoga of mind?.Wherever Mind goes so goes Atma.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Also - ''Atma ManasorithareyTharashrayatwat

> > > > > SooryaChandraMasorEkasya

> > > > > > > > > Balawat Itharasya Balisidhi'' - Due to mutual

> > dependence of

> > > > > Sun and

> > > > > > > > > Moon, srength of one renders the other strong.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > 3)Atmakaraka - It is fine.Now please explain why,

> one

> > with

> > > - Chara

> > > > > > > > > atma karaka as Sun should try to overcome ego and

> > become

> > > > > humble'' .

> > > > > > > > > This i feel will end all our doubts.If you

remember

> our

> > > > > debates got

> > > > > > > > > started because of Chandrashekhar jis point.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > 4)Mantra is for mind and through Mantra sidhi mind

> will

> > > stay tuned

> > > > > > > > > (Yoga), with what it has to.During Grahana there

is

> a

> > forced

> > > > > > > > > detachment(influence of Sun) and one will submit

> > oneself

> > > to Guru

> > > > > > > > > without a dual feeling or ego.Chandrashekhar ji may

> > > correct me.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Thanks

> > > > > > > > > Pradeep

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > <%40>

> > > > > > > <%40>

> > > > > > > > > <%

> > 40>, "b_lakshmi_ramesh"

> > > > > > > > > <b_lakshmi_ramesh@> wrote:

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Om Gurave Namah

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Namaste Pradeep,

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > My understanding is no better than yours :--)),

> and

> > yes,

> > > both of

> > > > > > > > > us

> > > > > > > > > > are benefiting from this discussion.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Ok, let's take your example of reflection on

> water.

> > As

> > > you said,

> > > > > > > > > > when a stone is thrown the image is shattered.

> It's

> > fine

> > > > > thus far

> > > > > > > > > > and I agree with you.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > You also said that that the reflection attaches

> > itself with

> > > > > water

> > > > > > > > > > and feels shattered/happy. How do you know if

> this?

> > Have you

> > > > > seen

> > > > > > > > > > the reflection wince in pain, have you seen it

> grin

> > in

> > > pleasure?

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Suppose I stand before a mirror, I see my

> > reflection, when I

> > > > > move

> > > > > > > > > it

> > > > > > > > > > moves, when I laugh, it laughs, when I grimace,

it

> > also

> > > does so.

> > > > > > > > > The

> > > > > > > > > > reflection at all times is of me and never

becomes

> > the

> > > property

> > > > > > > > > of

> > > > > > > > > > the mirror and reflect its sentiments. Suppose I

> move

> > > away, will

> > > > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > > reflection stay back with the mirror? Is the

> > reflection of

> > > > > > > > > Brahman

> > > > > > > > > > capable of showing any feeling, which is not

shown

> > on the

> > > > > Brahman...

> > > > > > > > > > which is independent of Brahman? And is the

Brahman

> > > subject to

> > > > > > > > > > feelings?

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Ahankaara

> > > > > > > > > > ---------------

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > In Jnana-vijnana yoga (Chapter 7) from

> Bhagavadgita,

> > the

> > > Lord

> > > > > > > > > says

> > > > > > > > > > thus...

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > bhūmir āpo 'nalo vāyuḥ

> > > > > > > > > > khaḿ mano buddhir eva ca

> > > > > > > > > > ahańkāra itīyaḿ me

> > > > > > > > > > bhinnā prakṛtir

aṣṭadhā

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > The mind, intellect, ego, ether, air, fire,

water,

> > and

> > > earth are

> > > > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > > eightfold transformation of My Prakriti.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > apareyam itas tv anyāḿ

> > > > > > > > > > prakṛtiḿ viddhi me parām

> > > > > > > > > > jīva-bhūtāḿ mahā-

> bāho

> > > > > > > > > > yayedaḿ dhāryate jagat

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > This Prakriti is My lower energy. My other

higher

> > energy

> > > is the

> > > > > > > > > > Purusha by which this entire universe is

> sustained, O

> > > Arjuna.

> > > > > > > > > > Clearly linking "ego" with Prakriti and not with

> > Purusha.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > I have earlier also quoted from puranas (srishti

> > krama),

> > > > > about the

> > > > > > > > > > constituents of ahamkaara, I eagerly await your

> > response

> > > for the

> > > > > > > > > > same and the above.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Soul or reflection of soul?

> > > > > > > > > > -

> > > > > > > > > > From Chapter 10 (Vibhuti yoga), Bhagavan also

says

> > that

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > aham ātmā guḍākeśa

> > > > > > > > > > sarva-bhūtāśaya-sthitaḥ

> > > > > > > > > > aham ādiś ca madhyaḿ ca

> > > > > > > > > > bhūtānām anta eva ca

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > I am the Supersoul, O Arjuna, seated in the

hearts

> of

> > > all living

> > > > > > > > > > entities. I am the beginning, the middle and the

> end

> > of all

> > > > > beings.

> > > > > > > > > > The Lord Himself says that He is the soul within

> > every

> > > living

> > > > > > > > > thing,

> > > > > > > > > > so how can we not believe Him? :--)) He's the

> > Jeevatma as

> > > > > well as

> > > > > > > > > > the Paramatma.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Atmakaraka

> > > > > > > > > > ----------------

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Please refer to my previous mail to Sundeep ji

> > regarding the

> > > > > > > > > > difference between Atma and AK. Please also

refer

> to

> > the

> > > > > shloka 31

> > > > > > > > > > of chapter 34 in BPHS, which defines what's to

be

> > seen from

> > > > > > > > > > Atmakaraka....janasya janmalagna yat

> > > > > vidyaadaatmakaarakaH...saying

> > > > > > > > > that

> > > > > > > > > > the atmakaraka stands for the ascendant,

> indicating

> > the

> > > person,

> > > > > > > > > his

> > > > > > > > > > body etc...all that the ascendant generally

stands

> > for.

> > > Now, the

> > > > > > > > > > question is should soul be judged from

ascendant?

> If

> > so,

> > > what's

> > > > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > > purpose of Surya lagna and the concept of tripod

> of

> > life?

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Infact, the shlokas 31-34 in BPHS (chapter 34)

> talk

> > about

> > > > > how one

> > > > > > > > > > can assess wife (darakaraka) from significations

> of

> > the 2nd

> > > > > house

> > > > > > > > > > etc. Nowhere any mention is made of intangible

> things

> > > like soul,

> > > > > > > > > > mind etc. If you have any other shloka/pramana

to

> say

> > > that AK

> > > > > > > > > > indicates Soul and not the Native, please let me

> > know. That

> > > > > would

> > > > > > > > > > indeed benefit me.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Hence, AK is a term for the "native

> (soul+mind+body)"

> > > and is not

> > > > > > > > > > used as a significator of the soul....I hope the

> > > confusion is

> > > > > > > > > cleared

> > > > > > > > > > now.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Grahana-time

> > > > > > > > > > ----------------

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > I have no knowledge/information regarding solar

> > eclipse

> > > > > being the

> > > > > > > > > > best time for "mantra initiation". I only know

that

> > > grahana time

> > > > > > > > > > should be avoided for all events. I am sure

> > Chandrasekhar ji

> > > > > would

> > > > > > > > > > know better. However, it would be nice if he can

> > give some

> > > > > > > > > > referable/verifiable links/sources regarding

this,

> > it would

> > > > > > > > > benefit

> > > > > > > > > > all of us.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > However, I do know that people observe deeksha

> > > (austerities) and

> > > > > > > > > > mantra japa during eclipses. The definition

> > of "mantra"

> > > as you

> > > > > > > > > > probably know very well is "mananaat trayathe

iti

> > mantraH",

> > > > > > > > > > meaning "that" by whose constant thinking or

> > recollection,

> > > > > one is

> > > > > > > > > > protected/released from the round of birth and

> > death. I have

> > > > > also

> > > > > > > > > > read another definition that mantra is one which

> > > protects (tra)

> > > > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > > mind(man). so I am sure you understand why

mantra

> > japa is

> > > > > > > > > > stipulated at grahana time, and whom it's

supposed

> to

> > > protect.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > It is also said that mantra japa during grahana

> > yields

> > > > > > > > > > greater/faster results, as does any spiritual

> effort

> > > undertaken

> > > > > > > > > > during kali yuga (both are dark times). Guru is

the

> > > karaka for

> > > > > > > > > > mantra japa, religious austerities, and Guru is

the

> > > remover of

> > > > > > > > > > darkness.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Now, who is denied the light during grahana

times?

> > It's

> > > 1) the

> > > > > > > > > > earth/body and 2) the moon/mind. Both the mind

and

> > body need

> > > > > light

> > > > > > > > > > for their survival and hence need to be

protected

> > during

> > > > > this dark

> > > > > > > > > > time, so we invoke Guru, who protects one from

> inner

> > > > > grahana. And,

> > > > > > > > > > Guru guides Chandra, not Surya:--))

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > It's mentioned in Vishnu purana, that there's a

> > category

> > > of dark

> > > > > > > > > > forces called "Mandeha", who try to block Sun,

> during

> > > sandhya

> > > > > > > > > time.

> > > > > > > > > > The effect of Gayatri japam is said to defeat

> those

> > asuric

> > > > > > > > > forces.

> > > > > > > > > > So, mantra japa at all times is to ward off dark

> > forces and

> > > > > > > > > preserve

> > > > > > > > > > Light. Matri devobhava (for bringing us out of

the

> > > darkness of

> > > > > > > > > womb

> > > > > > > > > > and giving us apara vidya), pitridevo

> > bhava...acharya devo

> > > > > bhava.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > I am sure you also know what is the first mantra

> > given

> > > to people

> > > > > > > > > and

> > > > > > > > > > who gives that. So, Father is the first Guru in

> > paraa vidya.

> > > > > Shiva

> > > > > > > > > > is the devata denoting both Surya & Guru!!

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > These are my conclusions or feelings, if you

have

> any

> > > > > evidence to

> > > > > > > > > > the contrary, I will stand corrected:--))

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Can I request you again to respond to the

specific

> > > references

> > > > > > > > > (from

> > > > > > > > > > Bhagavad gita and puranas) I have given about

> > ahamkaara

> > > being a

> > > > > > > > > part

> > > > > > > > > > of the nature of prakriti and not of Purusha?

Also

> > about

> > > Shiva-

> > > > > > > > > > shakti / Soul-mind tattwa? I am sorry if you

have

> > already

> > > > > > > > > responded

> > > > > > > > > > to them and I have not noticed.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Regards,

> > > > > > > > > > Lakshmi

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > <%40>

> > > > > > > <%40>

> > > > > > > > > <%

> > 40>, "vijayadas_pradeep"

> > > > > > > > > > <vijayadas_pradeep@> wrote:

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > Dear Lakshmi ji

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > I am writing a a small piece from my limited

> > > > > understanding,based

> > > > > > > > > > on

> > > > > > > > > > > Shankaras term reflection.Imagine a pratibimba

or

> > > > > reflection of

> > > > > > > > > > Sun

> > > > > > > > > > > on water.Water has to be understood as

> > mind.Pratibimba

> > > > > attaches

> > > > > > > > > > > itself with water.In reality it is not.Now

assume

> > > someone is

> > > > > > > > > > > throwing a small stone.what will happen?The

> > pratibimba

> > > gets

> > > > > > > > > > > shattered and thinks oh i am torn.When the

waves

> > in water

> > > > > stops

> > > > > > > > > > > pratibimba is happy again.These waves are

> feelings

> > in

> > > > > mind.stone

> > > > > > > > > > is

> > > > > > > > > > > external impact.Pratibima does not know who he

> > is.In

> > > > > reality he

> > > > > > > > > is

> > > > > > > > > > > the light of sun.Attachment with water gives

him

> > seperate

> > > > > > > > > > reflected

> > > > > > > > > > > identity.But as soon as Pratibimba

realizes ,as

> i

> > am

> > > ''because

> > > > > > > > > of

> > > > > > > > > > > HIM nothing is happening to me with a stone''

all

> > > worries are

> > > > > > > > > > > gone.Similarly everything in this world is a

> > reflection of

> > > > > > > > > > > Brahman.HE has many Maya Leelas.With Nama and

> > Roopa,as

> > > a first

> > > > > > > > > > step,

> > > > > > > > > > > we should only understand that ''I am his

> > reflection

> > > and hence

> > > > > > > > > > > HIM''.Dont ever equate us to HIM in dual

> state.It

> > is

> > > height of

> > > > > > > > > > > AHAMKARA.Total merger is like drying up of

> > water.Jeevatma

> > > > > is his

> > > > > > > > > > own

> > > > > > > > > > > light but identification with

> prakriti/mind/water

> > gives

> > > > > > > > > reflected

> > > > > > > > > > > seperate identity.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > Still if it is not clear - Please think why

shri

> > > Sanjay Rath

> > > > > > > > > > states

> > > > > > > > > > > in his articles --''If Sun is the chara Atma

> Karaka

> > > the person

> > > > > > > > > > > should learn to overcome his ''---''.What is

> that

> > 3 letter

> > > > > word.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > If Chara has that effect what about influence

of

> > > > > sthira?Will you

> > > > > > > > > > > still hang on to Rahu.Universal Truths are

> > > > > objective.Objectivity

> > > > > > > > > > is

> > > > > > > > > > > consistent.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > Kindly attend to Chandrashekhar jis question -

> > Mantra

> > > > > deeksha and

> > > > > > > > > > > Grahana.We have to accept mistakes to go

> forward.It

> > > increases

> > > > > > > > > our

> > > > > > > > > > > value.How is value addition happening?

Acceptance

> is

> > > > > reduction in

> > > > > > > > > > > EGO,and reduction is reduction of ignorance

and

> > closer to

> > > > > > > > > > > realization.This proximity is the value

addition.

> > > > > > > > > > > Wishing you all the best.Your questions are

> > brilliant and

> > > > > > > > > helping

> > > > > > > > > > > both of us.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > Pradeep

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > ----------------------

--

> -

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.12.8/455 -

> > Release

> > > Date:

> > > > > > > 9/22/2006

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

[Guest guest]

Dear Lakshmi ji

 

I cannot comprehend the historical aspects of epics.I am poor in

that and i do not want.

If muni says epic was there i take it else not.We may agree or

disagree with internet article.Chandrashekhar ji says ha speaks what

the shastras say.

 

Tantra - one day HIS grace will make you understand the real meaning

of PanchaMakaras.It is the essence that matters and not the name be

it Vaidik or Tantrik.Do you value Shad-Chakras and Tantra.

 

What did you understand from Chandrashekhar ji's advise - We should

look at what the mind is doing from outside rather than

controlling.Who is this We?.If you can understand and experience

this - there is nothing more to understand.Pls be kind enough to

attempt this.

 

Thanks

Pradeep

 

, "b_lakshmi_ramesh"

<b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote:

>

> Om Gurave Namah

>

> Namaste Pradeep,

>

> Thanks for the link, and based on that I made a few searches on

the

> internet myself. According to this link, and many similar links

>

> http://lakdiva.org/aryan/rama.html

>

> the solar eclipses recorded in Ramayana occured when Sri Rama was

in

> exile. I do not think that Sage Vasistha was around to give mantra

> initiation at that time. But I am sure Sri Rama performed mantra

> japa and the other prescribed procedure at the time of solar

> eclipse.

>

> Same is the case with Sri Krishna. Infact, Sage Veda Vyasa was

> emphatic in describing the period of 2 eclipses occuring within 13

> days as an inauspicious period. The same is said to have occured

> when Yadu dynasty perished.

>

> http://www.boloji.com/astro/00325.htm

>

> Tantra

> ------

>

> Tantra is a different branch of beliefs/set of procedures which

may

> not match with vaidik traditions, hence are not routinely

> applicable. Tantra philosophy is great to read about and learn

> from...I do respect them, but frankly, I wouldn't want my son to

> follow tantric rituals, with pancha "ma"kaaraas etc. What can be

> achieved through tantra can also be achieved through other

> paths/traditions and i would prefer my son to go through vaidik

> traditions.

>

> What I do not want my son to do, I would never advise others to do.

>

> Regards,

> Lakshmi

>

>

>

> , "vijayadas_pradeep"

> <vijayadas_pradeep@> wrote:

> >

> > Dear Lakshmi ji

> >

> > Chandrashekhar ji gave some reference,out of his

> > experience/knoweldge.

> >

> > I tried to understand and think it fully ,within my limitations

> and

> > found them as helpful towards further understanding of Truths.

> >

> > During an internet search ,i could find the same.It is mentioned

> > that Lord Rama and Lord krishna got intiated (deeksha during

> soorya

> > grahana).

> >

> > I do not know nothing more than this.Kindly interpret using the

> best

> > of your abiltities and your likes/dislikes.Everybody is

> right,except

> > for the relativity or proximity or degree of ''rightness''.

> >

> > Pls find the link as you wished.

> >

> > http://www.siddhashram.org/s20000637.shtml

> >

> > Thanks

> > Pradeep

> >

> > , "b_lakshmi_ramesh"

> > <b_lakshmi_ramesh@> wrote:

> > >

> > > Om Gurave Namah

> > >

> > > Namaste Pradeep,

> > >

> > > Can you please give the link itself? I want to understand

> > > whether "deeksha" as mentioned by you meant "mantra

initiation"

> > > or "mantra japa/other observances". The latter is the normal

> > > occurrance and undertaken by every second Hindu.

> > >

> > > Do you mean that Sri Rama and sri Krishna received mantra

> > initiation

> > > during solar eclipse? Can you show me some confirmation

> regarding

> > > this from Ramayana/Bhagavatham? Does the link mention them?

> > >

> > > Regards,

> > > Lakshmi

> > >

> > > , "vijayadas_pradeep"

> > > <vijayadas_pradeep@> wrote:

> > > >

> > > > Dear Chandrashekhar ji

> > > >

> > > > I am posting the search result for the benefit of others.

> > > >

> > > > The great importance of eclipses is well reflected in the

> events

> > of

> > > > lives of the great Avataars (incarnations). Lord Ram for

> example

> > > had

> > > > Diksha from his Guru at a time when an eclipse was going on.

> > > Similarly

> > > > Lord Krishna had Diksha during an eclipse. And the reason

for

> > this

> > > is

> > > > that during these moments it is very easy for the disciple

to

> > > imbibe

> > > > fully the energy transferred into him by the Guru.

> > > >

> > > > The battle of Mahabharat was about to begin. The army of the

> > > Kauravs

> > > > was ready for the battle and its great warriors like Bheeshm,

> > > > Dronacharya, Karna were mounted on their chariots. On the

> other

> > > side

> > > > the army of the Pandavs too stood ready waiting for the

battle

> > > trumpet

> > > > to sound. The Pandavs asked Lord Krishna to give his assent

for

> > > > starting the fight. But Lord Krishna stopped them.

> > > >

> > > > He said - If the war starts now, any side would be likely to

> > win.

> > > But

> > > > a few moments from now a solar eclipse is about to begin and

> if

> > the

> > > > war bugle is sounded then the Pandavs shall surely win. Lord

> > > Krishna

> > > > had realised the significance of the moments of eclipse and

> > > history is

> > > > a witness that all Kauravs were killed, while the five

Pandavs

> > > > remained unharmed just because the war was started at the

> right

> > > moment

> > > >

> > > > Respect

> > > > Pradeep

> > > > , Chandrashekhar

> > > > <chandrashekhar46@> wrote:

> > > > >

> > > > > Dear Pradeep,

> > > > >

> > > > > I am glad for the reference. It seems I wan not wrong in

my

> > > > > understanding of the reason or the Muhurta for Deeksha.

> > > > >

> > > > > Take care,

> > > > >

> > > > > Chandrashekhar.

> > > > >

> > > > > vijayadas_pradeep wrote:

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Dear Chandrashekhar ji

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Thanks for the correction/giuidance.I made a quick

search

> > and

> > > found

> > > > > > -Lord Rama, Krishna taking deeksha during Soorya Grahana.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Respect

> > > > > > Pradeep

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > <%40>, Chandrashekhar

> > > > > > <chandrashekhar46@> wrote:

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Dear Pradeep,

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > That is one way of looking at it. Deeksha is in a way

> self

> > > devotion

> > > > > > to a

> > > > > > > person (guru) or god ( for the person taking

> > > deeksha)/dedication

> > > > and if

> > > > > > > one has ego he will simply not be able to do this.

That

> is

> > > why Surya

> > > > > > > eclipse is the most important muhurta to give deeksha.

> Or

> > at

> > > > least that

> > > > > > > is my understanding.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Take care,

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Chandrashekhar.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > vijayadas_pradeep wrote:

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Dear Chandrashekhar ji

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Thanks for guiding me.

> > > > > > > > Also i feel deeksha is for direction and direction

is

> > > light.If we

> > > > > > > > think we have all the light then there is no room

for

> > > light to

> > > > > > come in.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Respect

> > > > > > > > Pradeep

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > <%40>

> > > > > > > > <%40>,

Chandrashekhar

> > > > > > > > <chandrashekhar46@> wrote:

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Dear Pradeep,

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > You did understand what I was telling about

deekksha

> > and

> > > the

> > > > > > reason why

> > > > > > > > > Surya grahana is very auspicious for giving

Deeksha.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > vijayadas_pradeep wrote:

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Dear Lakshmi ji

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > 1)Brahman has no feelings.How about the mirror

> within

> > > > you?.Did you

> > > > > > > > > > notice myslef equating water to MIND.Literal

> > meanings

> > > may

> > > > not help

> > > > > > > > > > us.Kindly attempt again.Infact the literal

> > > interpretation from

> > > > > > your

> > > > > > > > > > part did reduce my passion to reply.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > 2)Manas Ahankara etc are Jadas.Para prakrithi

has

> to

> > > enliven

> > > > > > > > > > this.Thought arises from a thinker.It is upto

you

> to

> > > > decide and

> > > > > > > > > > remain happy at thought level.For me dual

identity

> > (ego

> > > > > > thought) is a

> > > > > > > > > > false identification of a thinker who has

> forgotten

> > > his real

> > > > > > > > > > identity.But this identity has a purpose.Karma

and

> > HIS

> > > > > > > > > > leelas.Brahman has no false identity at all.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > 3)Mata Amritanda Mayi says when lovers talk to

> each

> > > other they

> > > > > > > > > > experience Ananda.Similarly we have kamuki

kamuka

> > > bhava within

> > > > > > > > > > us.SHE bhava is Jeevatma and HE bhava is

> > Paramatma.If

> > > we

> > > > try to

> > > > > > > > > > understand this statement of AMMA we will know

in

> > > reality

> > > > there is

> > > > > > > > > > only a bindu.When the unclear extends the clear

> > > > manifests.When the

> > > > > > > > > > chaitanya behind manifested returns ,they become

> > > one.But this

> > > > > > > > > > extension always results in ''I'' feeling.This

is

> > > needed for

> > > > > > > > > > discharging Karma.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > 4)I feel if we stop these verbal exchanges and

can

> > do

> > > a self

> > > > > > > > > > seeking,things would be more clear.Close your

> > eyes,sit

> > > in

> > > > silence

> > > > > > > > > > with no thought - No Space no Mind no

Time.Slowly

> > open

> > > your

> > > > > > eyes and

> > > > > > > > > > release breath.Space/Mind/Time all can be

> > > > understood.Tattwa behind

> > > > > > > > > > Universe will unfold for you.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > 3)Jyotish is not for realized souls.It is for

> those

> > > within the

> > > > > > > > > > clutches of Space and Time.Hence in jyotish,

Surya

> > > > represents the

> > > > > > > > > > Atma of Kalapurusha.He is Divakara and Moon

> > > Nishakara.They

> > > > > > rule half

> > > > > > > > > > the rashis each and both are kings.Mutual

> dependence

> > is

> > > > not about

> > > > > > > > > > existence but for discharging functions.

> > > (Paurusha/Karya sidhis

> > > > > > > > > > through atma and mana prabhavas respectively).

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Pramana.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Atma Sahethi Manasa Mana Indriyena

> > > > > > > > > > Swardhena Chendriyagana Krama Evamesha

> > > > > > > > > > Yogoyameva Manasa KimaGamyamasthi

> > > > > > > > > > Yasmin Mano Prajathi Tathra GathoyaMatma ithi

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Atma moves along with mind,Mind with

> > Indriyas,Indriyas

> > > with

> > > > > > > > > > Vishayas ...the general order.What cannot be

> > achieved

> > > if

> > > > there is

> > > > > > > > > > yoga of mind?.Wherever Mind goes so goes Atma.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Also - ''Atma ManasorithareyTharashrayatwat

> > > > > > SooryaChandraMasorEkasya

> > > > > > > > > > Balawat Itharasya Balisidhi'' - Due to mutual

> > > dependence of

> > > > > > Sun and

> > > > > > > > > > Moon, srength of one renders the other strong.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > 3)Atmakaraka - It is fine.Now please explain

why,

> > one

> > > with

> > > > - Chara

> > > > > > > > > > atma karaka as Sun should try to overcome ego

and

> > > become

> > > > > > humble'' .

> > > > > > > > > > This i feel will end all our doubts.If you

> remember

> > our

> > > > > > debates got

> > > > > > > > > > started because of Chandrashekhar jis point.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > 4)Mantra is for mind and through Mantra sidhi

mind

> > will

> > > > stay tuned

> > > > > > > > > > (Yoga), with what it has to.During Grahana there

> is

> > a

> > > forced

> > > > > > > > > > detachment(influence of Sun) and one will submit

> > > oneself

> > > > to Guru

> > > > > > > > > > without a dual feeling or ego.Chandrashekhar ji

may

> > > > correct me.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Thanks

> > > > > > > > > > Pradeep

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > <%40>

> > > > > > > > <%40>

> > > > > > > > > > <%

> > > 40>, "b_lakshmi_ramesh"

> > > > > > > > > > <b_lakshmi_ramesh@> wrote:

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > Om Gurave Namah

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > Namaste Pradeep,

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > My understanding is no better than yours :--

)),

> > and

> > > yes,

> > > > both of

> > > > > > > > > > us

> > > > > > > > > > > are benefiting from this discussion.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > Ok, let's take your example of reflection on

> > water.

> > > As

> > > > you said,

> > > > > > > > > > > when a stone is thrown the image is shattered.

> > It's

> > > fine

> > > > > > thus far

> > > > > > > > > > > and I agree with you.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > You also said that that the reflection

attaches

> > > itself with

> > > > > > water

> > > > > > > > > > > and feels shattered/happy. How do you know if

> > this?

> > > Have you

> > > > > > seen

> > > > > > > > > > > the reflection wince in pain, have you seen it

> > grin

> > > in

> > > > pleasure?

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > Suppose I stand before a mirror, I see my

> > > reflection, when I

> > > > > > move

> > > > > > > > > > it

> > > > > > > > > > > moves, when I laugh, it laughs, when I

grimace,

> it

> > > also

> > > > does so.

> > > > > > > > > > The

> > > > > > > > > > > reflection at all times is of me and never

> becomes

> > > the

> > > > property

> > > > > > > > > > of

> > > > > > > > > > > the mirror and reflect its sentiments. Suppose

I

> > move

> > > > away, will

> > > > > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > > > reflection stay back with the mirror? Is the

> > > reflection of

> > > > > > > > > > Brahman

> > > > > > > > > > > capable of showing any feeling, which is not

> shown

> > > on the

> > > > > > Brahman...

> > > > > > > > > > > which is independent of Brahman? And is the

> Brahman

> > > > subject to

> > > > > > > > > > > feelings?

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > Ahankaara

> > > > > > > > > > > ---------------

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > In Jnana-vijnana yoga (Chapter 7) from

> > Bhagavadgita,

> > > the

> > > > Lord

> > > > > > > > > > says

> > > > > > > > > > > thus...

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > bhūmir āpo 'nalo vāyuḥ

> > > > > > > > > > > khaḿ mano buddhir eva ca

> > > > > > > > > > > ahańkāra itīyaḿ me

> > > > > > > > > > > bhinnā prakṛtir

> aṣṭadhā

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > The mind, intellect, ego, ether, air, fire,

> water,

> > > and

> > > > earth are

> > > > > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > > > eightfold transformation of My Prakriti.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > apareyam itas tv anyāḿ

> > > > > > > > > > > prakṛtiḿ viddhi me parām

> > > > > > > > > > > jīva-bhūtāḿ mahā-

> > bāho

> > > > > > > > > > > yayedaḿ dhāryate jagat

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > This Prakriti is My lower energy. My other

> higher

> > > energy

> > > > is the

> > > > > > > > > > > Purusha by which this entire universe is

> > sustained, O

> > > > Arjuna.

> > > > > > > > > > > Clearly linking "ego" with Prakriti and not

with

> > > Purusha.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > I have earlier also quoted from puranas

(srishti

> > > krama),

> > > > > > about the

> > > > > > > > > > > constituents of ahamkaara, I eagerly await

your

> > > response

> > > > for the

> > > > > > > > > > > same and the above.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > Soul or reflection of soul?

> > > > > > > > > > > -

> > > > > > > > > > > From Chapter 10 (Vibhuti yoga), Bhagavan also

> says

> > > that

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > aham ātmā guḍākeśa

> > > > > > > > > > > sarva-bhūtāśaya-sthitaḥ

> > > > > > > > > > > aham ādiś ca madhyaḿ ca

> > > > > > > > > > > bhūtānām anta eva ca

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > I am the Supersoul, O Arjuna, seated in the

> hearts

> > of

> > > > all living

> > > > > > > > > > > entities. I am the beginning, the middle and

the

> > end

> > > of all

> > > > > > beings.

> > > > > > > > > > > The Lord Himself says that He is the soul

within

> > > every

> > > > living

> > > > > > > > > > thing,

> > > > > > > > > > > so how can we not believe Him? :--)) He's the

> > > Jeevatma as

> > > > > > well as

> > > > > > > > > > > the Paramatma.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > Atmakaraka

> > > > > > > > > > > ----------------

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > Please refer to my previous mail to Sundeep ji

> > > regarding the

> > > > > > > > > > > difference between Atma and AK. Please also

> refer

> > to

> > > the

> > > > > > shloka 31

> > > > > > > > > > > of chapter 34 in BPHS, which defines what's to

> be

> > > seen from

> > > > > > > > > > > Atmakaraka....janasya janmalagna yat

> > > > > > vidyaadaatmakaarakaH...saying

> > > > > > > > > > that

> > > > > > > > > > > the atmakaraka stands for the ascendant,

> > indicating

> > > the

> > > > person,

> > > > > > > > > > his

> > > > > > > > > > > body etc...all that the ascendant generally

> stands

> > > for.

> > > > Now, the

> > > > > > > > > > > question is should soul be judged from

> ascendant?

> > If

> > > so,

> > > > what's

> > > > > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > > > purpose of Surya lagna and the concept of

tripod

> > of

> > > life?

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > Infact, the shlokas 31-34 in BPHS (chapter 34)

> > talk

> > > about

> > > > > > how one

> > > > > > > > > > > can assess wife (darakaraka) from

significations

> > of

> > > the 2nd

> > > > > > house

> > > > > > > > > > > etc. Nowhere any mention is made of intangible

> > things

> > > > like soul,

> > > > > > > > > > > mind etc. If you have any other shloka/pramana

> to

> > say

> > > > that AK

> > > > > > > > > > > indicates Soul and not the Native, please let

me

> > > know. That

> > > > > > would

> > > > > > > > > > > indeed benefit me.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > Hence, AK is a term for the "native

> > (soul+mind+body)"

> > > > and is not

> > > > > > > > > > > used as a significator of the soul....I hope

the

> > > > confusion is

> > > > > > > > > > cleared

> > > > > > > > > > > now.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > Grahana-time

> > > > > > > > > > > ----------------

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > I have no knowledge/information regarding

solar

> > > eclipse

> > > > > > being the

> > > > > > > > > > > best time for "mantra initiation". I only know

> that

> > > > grahana time

> > > > > > > > > > > should be avoided for all events. I am sure

> > > Chandrasekhar ji

> > > > > > would

> > > > > > > > > > > know better. However, it would be nice if he

can

> > > give some

> > > > > > > > > > > referable/verifiable links/sources regarding

> this,

> > > it would

> > > > > > > > > > benefit

> > > > > > > > > > > all of us.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > However, I do know that people observe deeksha

> > > > (austerities) and

> > > > > > > > > > > mantra japa during eclipses. The definition

> > > of "mantra"

> > > > as you

> > > > > > > > > > > probably know very well is "mananaat trayathe

> iti

> > > mantraH",

> > > > > > > > > > > meaning "that" by whose constant thinking or

> > > recollection,

> > > > > > one is

> > > > > > > > > > > protected/released from the round of birth and

> > > death. I have

> > > > > > also

> > > > > > > > > > > read another definition that mantra is one

which

> > > > protects (tra)

> > > > > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > > > mind(man). so I am sure you understand why

> mantra

> > > japa is

> > > > > > > > > > > stipulated at grahana time, and whom it's

> supposed

> > to

> > > > protect.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > It is also said that mantra japa during

grahana

> > > yields

> > > > > > > > > > > greater/faster results, as does any spiritual

> > effort

> > > > undertaken

> > > > > > > > > > > during kali yuga (both are dark times). Guru

is

> the

> > > > karaka for

> > > > > > > > > > > mantra japa, religious austerities, and Guru

is

> the

> > > > remover of

> > > > > > > > > > > darkness.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > Now, who is denied the light during grahana

> times?

> > > It's

> > > > 1) the

> > > > > > > > > > > earth/body and 2) the moon/mind. Both the mind

> and

> > > body need

> > > > > > light

> > > > > > > > > > > for their survival and hence need to be

> protected

> > > during

> > > > > > this dark

> > > > > > > > > > > time, so we invoke Guru, who protects one from

> > inner

> > > > > > grahana. And,

> > > > > > > > > > > Guru guides Chandra, not Surya:--))

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > It's mentioned in Vishnu purana, that there's

a

> > > category

> > > > of dark

> > > > > > > > > > > forces called "Mandeha", who try to block Sun,

> > during

> > > > sandhya

> > > > > > > > > > time.

> > > > > > > > > > > The effect of Gayatri japam is said to defeat

> > those

> > > asuric

> > > > > > > > > > forces.

> > > > > > > > > > > So, mantra japa at all times is to ward off

dark

> > > forces and

> > > > > > > > > > preserve

> > > > > > > > > > > Light. Matri devobhava (for bringing us out of

> the

> > > > darkness of

> > > > > > > > > > womb

> > > > > > > > > > > and giving us apara vidya), pitridevo

> > > bhava...acharya devo

> > > > > > bhava.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > I am sure you also know what is the first

mantra

> > > given

> > > > to people

> > > > > > > > > > and

> > > > > > > > > > > who gives that. So, Father is the first Guru

in

> > > paraa vidya.

> > > > > > Shiva

> > > > > > > > > > > is the devata denoting both Surya & Guru!!

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > These are my conclusions or feelings, if you

> have

> > any

> > > > > > evidence to

> > > > > > > > > > > the contrary, I will stand corrected:--))

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > Can I request you again to respond to the

> specific

> > > > references

> > > > > > > > > > (from

> > > > > > > > > > > Bhagavad gita and puranas) I have given about

> > > ahamkaara

> > > > being a

> > > > > > > > > > part

> > > > > > > > > > > of the nature of prakriti and not of Purusha?

> Also

> > > about

> > > > Shiva-

> > > > > > > > > > > shakti / Soul-mind tattwa? I am sorry if you

> have

> > > already

> > > > > > > > > > responded

> > > > > > > > > > > to them and I have not noticed.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > Regards,

> > > > > > > > > > > Lakshmi

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > <%40>

> > > > > > > > <%40>

> > > > > > > > > > <%

> > > 40>, "vijayadas_pradeep"

> > > > > > > > > > > <vijayadas_pradeep@> wrote:

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Lakshmi ji

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > I am writing a a small piece from my limited

> > > > > > understanding,based

> > > > > > > > > > > on

> > > > > > > > > > > > Shankaras term reflection.Imagine a

pratibimba

> or

> > > > > > reflection of

> > > > > > > > > > > Sun

> > > > > > > > > > > > on water.Water has to be understood as

> > > mind.Pratibimba

> > > > > > attaches

> > > > > > > > > > > > itself with water.In reality it is not.Now

> assume

> > > > someone is

> > > > > > > > > > > > throwing a small stone.what will happen?The

> > > pratibimba

> > > > gets

> > > > > > > > > > > > shattered and thinks oh i am torn.When the

> waves

> > > in water

> > > > > > stops

> > > > > > > > > > > > pratibimba is happy again.These waves are

> > feelings

> > > in

> > > > > > mind.stone

> > > > > > > > > > > is

> > > > > > > > > > > > external impact.Pratibima does not know who

he

> > > is.In

> > > > > > reality he

> > > > > > > > > > is

> > > > > > > > > > > > the light of sun.Attachment with water gives

> him

> > > seperate

> > > > > > > > > > > reflected

> > > > > > > > > > > > identity.But as soon as Pratibimba

> realizes ,as

> > i

> > > am

> > > > ''because

> > > > > > > > > > of

> > > > > > > > > > > > HIM nothing is happening to me with a

stone''

> all

> > > > worries are

> > > > > > > > > > > > gone.Similarly everything in this world is a

> > > reflection of

> > > > > > > > > > > > Brahman.HE has many Maya Leelas.With Nama

and

> > > Roopa,as

> > > > a first

> > > > > > > > > > > step,

> > > > > > > > > > > > we should only understand that ''I am his

> > > reflection

> > > > and hence

> > > > > > > > > > > > HIM''.Dont ever equate us to HIM in dual

> > state.It

> > > is

> > > > height of

> > > > > > > > > > > > AHAMKARA.Total merger is like drying up of

> > > water.Jeevatma

> > > > > > is his

> > > > > > > > > > > own

> > > > > > > > > > > > light but identification with

> > prakriti/mind/water

> > > gives

> > > > > > > > > > reflected

> > > > > > > > > > > > seperate identity.

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > Still if it is not clear - Please think why

> shri

> > > > Sanjay Rath

> > > > > > > > > > > states

> > > > > > > > > > > > in his articles --''If Sun is the chara Atma

> > Karaka

> > > > the person

> > > > > > > > > > > > should learn to overcome his ''---''.What is

> > that

> > > 3 letter

> > > > > > word.

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > If Chara has that effect what about

influence

> of

> > > > > > sthira?Will you

> > > > > > > > > > > > still hang on to Rahu.Universal Truths are

> > > > > > objective.Objectivity

> > > > > > > > > > > is

> > > > > > > > > > > > consistent.

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > Kindly attend to Chandrashekhar jis

question -

> > > Mantra

> > > > > > deeksha and

> > > > > > > > > > > > Grahana.We have to accept mistakes to go

> > forward.It

> > > > increases

> > > > > > > > > > our

> > > > > > > > > > > > value.How is value addition happening?

> Acceptance

> > is

> > > > > > reduction in

> > > > > > > > > > > > EGO,and reduction is reduction of ignorance

> and

> > > closer to

> > > > > > > > > > > > realization.This proximity is the value

> addition.

> > > > > > > > > > > > Wishing you all the best.Your questions are

> > > brilliant and

> > > > > > > > > > helping

> > > > > > > > > > > > both of us.

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > Pradeep

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > --------------------

--

> --

> > -

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.12.8/455 -

 

> > > Release

> > > > Date:

> > > > > > > > 9/22/2006

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been

removed]

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > ------------------------

-

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.12.8/455 -

> > Release

> > > Date:

> > > > > > 9/22/2006

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

[Guest guest]

Dear Chandrashekhar ji

 

As i have not read much,your references are valid and authentic.Taking

advantage of the spark of guidance from Gurus,i could understand a bit

of the Truth.

As the Zen master said,if your cup is full, one cannot pour more

coffee into it.When one approaches with an open mind,reception and

absorption happens.

Let the light shown by Hrishis alone shall prevail.

 

Respect

Pardeep

 

, Chandrashekhar

<chandrashekhar46 wrote:

>

> Dear Pradeep,

> There are many not only in Upanishads but also Vedas. So is the

concept

> explained in Puranas. One has to look for it and be ready to absorb

it.

>

> Chandrashekhar.

> vijayadas_pradeep wrote: