Guru in the head

[Guest guest]

HK! PAMHO!

 

Before I begin I must say that my gurudeva is great; there’s no one like him and he has so many virtuous qualities and is such a great soul, my spiritual life would be non-existent if I had not the good fortune to meet him.

 

However, there appears to be a very strong mental bond between my guru and I. My mind is an open book to him and he can talk to me through thoughts. One is supposed to submit body mind and soul to the guru, but this level of mental intimacy is just too much. I want to aviod offending the guru, and this is not something I can bring up with my guru or god brothers/sisters.

 

I would like to ask the merciful devotees of this forum if this kind of connection with one’s guru is normal? I can often feel the spiritual presence of my guru and when it comes and goes it brings a tremendous side-effect of feelings which leave me slightly shaken and unable to get on with day to day chores with as much concentration as I would like.

 

I love my gurudeva immensely and trust him implicitly. I don’t want him to think that I no longer want to be his disciple or something, but I just feel like my mind and privacy is not something I am really ready to surrender to him as yet. What can I do? I really value the privacy and solitude of my mind but now I feel that I no longer have that. Is this the price of attaining love of God?

 

Please, will some devotees be kind enough to share their experiences and advice in this regard.

[Gaea]

You have a wonderful connection... if the connection really is that close you can be candid with your Guru and He will understand I'm sure.

[Guest guest]

Dear Rai,

 

You have a giftedness of being able to be telepathic and seems as if your

gurudeva does also. Perhaps there is someone that you can talk to about it in your sangha but you just haven't met the right guru-bhai yet.

 

In one sangha that I was in, after I got to travel around the world and meet

some of my godsiblings, then one of the senior guru-bhai told me that s/he

regularly is in contact with Guru in that manner which you describe.

 

For that gurubhai it was no problem because s/he was independently wealthy

and all day long did bhajan. For example at auspicious Brahma-muhurta hour

s/he would rise and internally serve the Istha-devata with mental offerings

and then then followed by hours of bhajans and prayers.

 

This guru-bhai did feel comfortable being so deeply connected to Guru. In

that tradition the sadhaka meditates on Divine Couple and assists in the

24 hour astakaliya pastimes of the Divine through mental offerings: from

the sadhaka to the guru to the Divine Couple. So in your tradition do you have any thing like this?

 

I think almost every tradition has something like this. In Shivaite religion I know they have it too at least one guru whose books I've read he has very clearly outlined that his disciples he expects to see them at night in dreams ready to do astral duty. He expects his disciples to be telepathic with him 24/7/365.

 

My two siksa gurus I was very telepathic with them like this and the benefit is then you know how to serve them nicely. Like you know how to anticipate what they want before they even say it. You don't have to make fool of yourself when Guru comes to town "Gurudev Gurudev" and ask so many

questions externally if you are telepathic with Gurudeva.

 

Then you don't waste time: yours or Gurudeva's time. It is very big blessing.

At any rate it is a siddhi and you have it; it is one of 1008 possible siddhis

one attains by meditation as a by-product.

[Guest guest]

Basically when you hear Sri Guru talking in your head like that, then all that is is basically Chaitya Guru, the Lord in the Heart, Param Atma, talking to you, best case scenario.

 

Shall Chaitya Guru always use voice of George Burns as in the 1970s comedy "Oh God!" starring John Denver? Or perhaps use voice of God in the movie "The Ten Commandments" starring Charlton Heston? Or maybe voice of Elvis Presley would be best voice Chaitya Guru use to communicate with you?

 

Basically Chaitya Guru use the voice of someone you would respect, thus you are hearing Chaitya Guru using voice of your living Diksa/ Siksa Guru like a ventriloquist. That is best case scenario.

 

Another possible scenario is your Guru has mystic powers. In one of the sanghas I was in, there was this whole alternative reality happening. One the surface there were all of these men with either lots of money and/or lots of time on their hands and they wanted to get the fast track to enlightenment.

 

So Sri Guru "inititated" them and "made them swamis" or "senior devotees" and what have you. Meanwhile you go and look on website of Sri Guru and there is senior devotee XYZ with big bucks saying things like "Sri Guru I want to get married again". So yah like that is really advanced inner bhajan.

 

Meanwhile while some of the really advanced "senior devotees" wanted to get married and apparently some of the swamis also, there was a core of other people in the same sangha and they all had this telepathic relationship with Sri Guru.

 

At the festivals on the surface the big draw was the big names who gave the big talks with the big dandas, some of whom who may or may not have left sannyasa ashram and got married by now.

 

However the alternate reality was Sri Guru was interacting with a core group of people on the inner planes of existence serving Divine Couple in astakaliya

24/7 service.

 

It was pretty interesting because at the festivals if certain of the telepaths thought you were also telepath then they discuss with you this alternate reality and give private instructions about it.

 

Sort of like the Seinfeld episode about the alternate universe. On the one hand you look the website of Sri Guru and this that and other person officially is so advanced. Oh oops half the people not there anymore on the "really advanced" page.

 

Meanwhile Inky Binky and Dinky das and devi dasis still in the sangha and still having telepathic relationship with Sri Guru. And maybe it's the person you think is "so in Maya" how they are acting and dressing and behaving. Or maybe it is just some quiet person who gets the giggles every time Sri Guru

asks him or her to speak and so they never are on the dais.

 

So who knows perhaps is someone you can discuss this with after all in your sangha! Good luck with it! Interesting "problem" that is for sure!

[harerama]

 

HK! PAMHO!

 

Before I begin I must say that my gurudeva is great; there’s no one like him and he has so many virtuous qualities and is such a great soul, my spiritual life would be non-existent if I had not the good fortune to meet him.

 

However, there appears to be a very strong mental bond between my guru and I. My mind is an open book to him and he can talk to me through thoughts. One is supposed to submit body mind and soul to the guru, but this level of mental intimacy is just too much. I want to aviod offending the guru, and this is not something I can bring up with my guru or god brothers/sisters.

 

I would like to ask the merciful devotees of this forum if this kind of connection with one’s guru is normal? I can often feel the spiritual presence of my guru and when it comes and goes it brings a tremendous side-effect of feelings which leave me slightly shaken and unable to get on with day to day chores with as much concentration as I would like.

 

I love my gurudeva immensely and trust him implicitly. I don’t want him to think that I no longer want to be his disciple or something, but I just feel like my mind and privacy is not something I am really ready to surrender to him as yet. What can I do? I really value the privacy and solitude of my mind but now I feel that I no longer have that. Is this the price of attaining love of God?

 

Please, will some devotees be kind enough to share their experiences and advice in this regard.

 

If he can really read your thoughts, or at least knows what you're thinking or feeling through your body language and such, I think it would be impossible for you to hide your discomfort from him.

 

However, if he can't, then you have nothing to worry about really, though to be sure, you might want to just tell him how you're feeling and maybe both of you can figure out why you feel he can do the things that he probably can't.

[theist]

 

If he can really read your thoughts, or at least knows what you're thinking or feeling through your body language and such, I think it would be impossible for you to hide your discomfort from him.

 

 

 

The next question is if he really knows then why does he persist?

[harerama]

 

The next question is if he really knows then why does he persist?

Good question. I'd guess the guru's answer, if he does claim to know, is that he wants to test the devotee's courage and confidence in the guru by doing whatever makes the devotee uncomfortable until the devotee himself acknowledges the discomfort and pleads with the guru to stop, thereby exhibiting courage on the disciple's part and real trust in the guru to understand the disciple and his limitations.

 

I've read of many accounts of gurus and disciples and that is pretty much what they all say.

 

Whether or not the guru is telling the truth about his own abilities and not inflicting some kind of psychological manipulation upon the devotee is another matter to consider.

 

I don't know if there is such a thing as mindreading, or any kind of psychic phenomena. I would hope there is, but the truth is there are many charlatans out there who prey upon people who believe in them. Some are charlatans without even knowing they're charlatans. They actually think they can read minds when all they're reading is body language and voice inflection which tells more than any person might be thinking they're actually telling. And they're doing all this without being aware of it. It's still an impressive feat, but hardly a spiritual one, nor a supernatural phenomenon, at least for the most part.

[Sridas]

Real telepathy constitutes both parties are willing and receptive otherwise like crank callers on our telephone line, it can become a disturbance if you appreciate some privacy. And in a worse case scenario you may have false mystics or ghosts trying to harass and manipulate unconscious, or unwilling recipients

The way God has wired us up originally is to have all the bells and whistles of the external technology we have now. But when the jivas arn't perfected enough to transmit and receive appropriately then we can get all sorts of mixed messages. With a fan club arriving in your your inbox that you didn't exactly invite.

 

Then again the thoughts and well wishes of a very developed master can't but be a pleasant surprise when they knock on the door of your consciousness.

 

On the other hand I often wonder what some of these rock stars and movie stars experience with so many adorers directing their desires, dreams and fantasies towards them. No wonder some of them are so mixed up.

[gHari]

http://vedabase.net/bg/10/10/en

[gHari]

 

[...] I really value the privacy and solitude of my mind but now I feel that I no longer have that. Is this the price of attaining love of God? [...]

 

The recreation of the mind, the throne of ahankara, is a difficult thing to relinquish. But somehow we must make room for Krsna. Accept the mercy as graciously as possible. The attachment to other things, even chores: well, just try to keep your priorities straight. God knows we have to eat and clothe ourselves; that will all happen - do not fear. We are the enjoyed, not the enjoyer.

 

Surrender includes the mind, but ahankara will fight hard for its seat as lord of the mind.

[Srimanta]

 

HK! PAMHO!

 

Before I begin I must say that my gurudeva is great; there’s no one like him and he has so many virtuous qualities and is such a great soul, my spiritual life would be non-existent if I had not the good fortune to meet him.

 

However, there appears to be a very strong mental bond between my guru and I. My mind is an open book to him and he can talk to me through thoughts. One is supposed to submit body mind and soul to the guru, but this level of mental intimacy is just too much. I want to aviod offending the guru, and this is not something I can bring up with my guru or god brothers/sisters.

 

I would like to ask the merciful devotees of this forum if this kind of connection with one’s guru is normal? I can often feel the spiritual presence of my guru and when it comes and goes it brings a tremendous side-effect of feelings which leave me slightly shaken and unable to get on with day to day chores with as much concentration as I would like.

 

I love my gurudeva immensely and trust him implicitly. I don’t want him to think that I no longer want to be his disciple or something, but I just feel like my mind and privacy is not something I am really ready to surrender to him as yet. What can I do? I really value the privacy and solitude of my mind but now I feel that I no longer have that. Is this the price of attaining love of God?

 

Please, will some devotees be kind enough to share their experiences and advice in this regard.

 

Surrendering to Guru without finding Krsns is foolishness. Make direct relationship with Krsna if Guru is so troublesome.

[Guest guest]

Guru transcends the need for the post office. His answers to replies comes from within, not bound by external mechanisms. Hare Krsna, ys, mahaksadasa

[Guest guest]

My advice would be to leave the situation whilst you still can. It may cause serious mental problems in the long run and what bona fide guru would do that to a person?

 

If you have such serious doubts and they're not being answered it's best to leave whilst your brain is still in one piece. I have known people to suffer badly through this kind of thing, and one cannot even protest against such a subtle violation. Instead of taking such an eager interest in the goings on of your mind surely the guru should be meditating on and serving the Lord?

 

This is indeed Kali yuga when even one's mind is not sacred space from the invasions of others and 'gurus'..

[stonehearted]

I should probably apologize for even posting this, but every time I see this topic, I hear Rage Against the Machine: "Ya gotta guru in yer head! Ya gotta guru in yer ****in' head!"

[Guest guest]

I liked the post, shaligram sheela hearted.

 

To the original poster, or to anyone with this problem: I was wondering what is Guru saying to you in your head? Is Guru telling you to shoot the President for Jodie Foster? Then that would not be guru in the head, it means you need some meds.

 

Is Guru telling you specifically how to serve Radhika in your inner bhajan all throughout the day? Then that would be more like an advanced Gaudiya telepathic mentor and protege relationship.

 

If Guru is telling you how to do useful everyday things then that would be more like Param Atman. There is a magazine called Guideposts started by Dr. Norman Vincent Peale in which Christians and Jews tell how they have experienced Param Atma. For example an "inner voice" tells them specifically what to do to avoid tragedy or how to save someone who is dying.

 

 

 

I agree also with the people who said, "Be careful", and even "Get out now, it can be dangerous". Because indulging too early in practices of yoga can lead to some persons being susceptible to things like this that they cannot handle.

 

Satguru Sivaya Subrahmuniya has talked about in the 1950s in the US that he had to go into mental hospitals and help people who were victims of things like you described. At that time there was yoga being practiced in US in its infancy period. He describes how housewives would start doing yoga and then develop siddhis and not know how to handle it. They would end up getting "locked up" which was very easy to have done to you back then.

 

For example say the lady's husband was having a side salad, so the wife was essentially being celibate for years. That would cause the wife to develop some siddhis from celibacy. Then say the lady was doing "Yoga with Lilias!" every day on TV. Then she would develop more siddhis. Then perhaps the lady had gone to a place like the Theosophical Society or SRF and learned how to do more advanced techniques. Then the lady might start getting astral visitors in her mind giving her astral instructions.

 

Satguru describes how he would have to go in and "talk them down" from it, and tell them what practices to avoid [given by other yoga teachers who felt it was okay to give advanced yoga techniques to anyone without years of preparation first] so that they could get more grounded in reality again.

 

 

 

Also even today there are gurus who use this aspect of the siddhis one develops to mischievously ensnare people to use for their own entertainment purposes. One Western bodied guru in Texas advertises that if you take "Deeksha" from him then you can enjoy "fourth dimensional sex".

 

Then by advertising stuff like this, he rounds up a stable of fillies for himself and he proceeds to "ride" all of them, once he gets inside their head and convinces them they are "special".

 

I once read that Anna Nichole Smith [or Pamela Anderson, sorry I forget which one] said that the best sex she ever had was with a ghost who would crawl up her leg and visit her. So this kind of stuff can happen quite easily.

 

 

 

So all in all, I agree with the people who said to "Be careful". An even if it starts out nice, you still have to be careful over the long run.