Saiva Siddhanta Beliefs

[Guest guest]

I have heard that there are 2 different beliefs about the soul and God within Saiva Siddhanta. One is that the individual soul and Shiva are the same (monism), and the other is that the individual soul is divine and part of Shiva but also remains eternally different from Shiva (qualified); after liberation, enjoying bliss with Him in Shivaloka. I read this briefly in one of the books put out by the Saiva Siddhanta church, their beliefs are of the former (monism) but they make mention that other Saiva Siddhantists hold to the latter belief. Are there any Saivites here who know more about the qualified monist Saivites? that believe the soul remains eternally individual, as the Vaishnavas believe.

[Guest guest]

One b ranch of Shiva Siddhanta believes in monistic theism, in other words: both.

 

The example given is that when you are at the bottom of a mountain looking up to the sky and the top of the mountain all you can see is the waves crashing against the shore. It looks scary and fearsome.

 

Then if you get to the top of the mountain everything looks serene from that perspective. It is peaceful and all around a tranquil view.

 

Yet it is the same mountain.

 

So when we start on the spiritual path, because we have experiences in this

world of so much variety and individual differences and even fighting and clashes based on the differences then that flavors what we think "the top

of the mountain" will be like, i.e. the ultimate destination of every soul.

 

However as you advance and begin to realize yourself as part and parcel of the Supreme, both comprised of saccidananda, if you have ever actually experienced the peace and bliss and fearlessness of realizing that you are actually saccidananda and not this mortal coil, then you don't feel afraid any more of "losing one's individuality"

 

for at the "top of the mountain" when our soul is fully mature then if you fully experience and realize that your soul body anandamaya kosha is pure bliss or saccidananda [as opposed to the annamaya kosha or food-based body]

 

then you won't feel afraid of what you and everyone for that matter will find at the top of the mountain i.e. when your soul is fully mature.

 

Right now it seems scary because that is all the neophyte kanistha adhikari knows: differences and only knows things by one's mind. So the previous acharyas and our divine guardians have shared so many stories about the spiritual world which a loving God puts out there so people won't feel afraid.

 

God and our divine guardians know full well that as we get to the top of the mountain we don't feel so afraid of "what we will be doing for all of eternity". We will actually taste more and more our true essence of never-ending bliss.

 

Also you don't get to the monism stage unless you want it. So there is no such thing that by meditating on Shiva then you will merge into Him without your full consent at any point in time. And when you do reach the stage that such a thing does not feel abhorrent to you

 

then the feeling will be like: you will look forward to it the same way that a bride looks forward to merging wiht her husband in conjugal relationship. When people have a wonderful sexual experience then they momentarily lose consciousness of any separation between themselves and the other person.

 

That is what will happen when you as a soul are fully perfect, and that is why in every religious tradition there is this "Bridal Mystery" school. Call it gopis or manjaris or what have you in Gaudiya Vaisnavism for example.

 

The texts written by the Goswamis were written in the language of the day, i.e. the Goswamis lived in a time and place where kings had harems. Sothere was a cult of courtly love at the time. So in order to make God attractive to the common person, the Goswamis wrote books such as Gita Govinda using the stylistic conventions of the times to convey spiritual truths.

 

Any mystic of any religious tradition can totally relate to any mystic of any religion in the world if she or he has had some small taste of the truth that our core or anandamaya kosha is blissful and in that blissful state you feel no separation from your Creator and only so beautiful and powerful and endless Divine Love.

 

A true mystic hungers for this state of union the same way in which a less

evolved person hungers for the loving embrace of a mother or father or brother or sister or lover in which all separation is lost and only oneness is felt. A true mystic also has compassion for the lost souls of this world and wants everyone to be able to taste this sweetness too.

 

A true mystic also loves his or her Lord. So as the soul progresses the soul will experience all of these things: the bottom of the mountain and the top of the mountain: all aspects of the same Divine Absolute Truth, monistic theism.

[Guest guest]

Dear Guest #2, Your post was very insightful and has give me a lot to meditate on. Thanks so much for sharing your wisdom with us.

 

On the topic of "merging with God", I was recently reading the book Autobiography of a Yogi, written by the great Kriya Yoga Master, Paramahansa Yogananda. In the book Yogananda recounts how his Spiritual Master, Sri Yukestwar, appeared to him after his departure from this world, showing himself to Yogananda in a resurrected form; and at this time spoke indepth about many of the mysteries of the astral and causal worlds and the spiritual evolution that continues on the highest plane until we eventually "merge with our Beloved". I liked how Sri Yukestwar describes the merging:

 

"Many beings remain for thousands of years in the causal cosmos. By deeper ecstasies the freed soul then withdraws itself from the little causal body and puts on the vastness of the causal cosmos. All the separate eddies of ideas, particularized waves of power, love, will, joy, peace, intuition, calmness, self-control, and concentration melt into the ever-joyous Sea of Bliss. No longer does the soul have to experience its joy as an individualized wave of consciousness, but is merged in the One Cosmic Ocean, with all its waves-eternal laughter, thrills, throbs.

 

"When a soul is out of the cocoon of the three bodies it escapes forever from the law of relativity and becomes the ineffable Ever-Existent. Behold the butterfly of Omnipresence, its wings etched with stars and moons and suns! The soul expanded into Spirit remains alone in the region of lightless light, darkless dark, thoughtless thought, intoxicated with its ecstasy of joy in God's dream of cosmic creation."

 

"When a soul finally gets out of the three jars of bodily delusions," Master continued, "it becomes one with the Infinite without any loss of individuality. Christ had won this final freedom even before he was born as Jesus. In three stages of his past, symbolized in his earth-life as the three days of his experience of death and resurrection, he had attained the power to fully arise in Spirit."

-- Sri Yukestwar

 

[Guest guest]

Thank you for your most sincere expression of appreciation.

 

I know that in one branch of Saiva Siddhanta, their preceptor has actually called the internet "a boon from the Gods" because we can progress quickly on the path by sharing so much knowledge, encouragement, and realizations with each other. He called it a "cyber sangha".

 

It's nice to know that the path is blissful isn't it? And nicer still to feel it and experience it. The uplifting thoughts you've expressed are indeed wonderful!

 

 

 

From what I have read, the term Vaikuntha means, "land of no fear". So if that is true, it means that there is nothing for us to fear on the path.

 

In other words, is God really Love or not? If God is Love, then seems to me that there is nothing to be afraid of and all freaked out about. But perhaps that is just me. Recently in Newsweek or Time was an article about it is as if people are worshipping four different Gods within any religion. That people tended to think of God as either:

 

__ benevolent and loving

__ distant

__ judgemental and stern

__ punishing

 

I thought it was interesting because it seems to correspond with the idea of saccidananda, sattvic, rajas, and tamas guna or modes of material nature

in Hinduism aka transcendental, good, passionate, or ignorant. Since so many people in the world seem to have their own understanding of the Divine, it's nice that someone could even follow what I was saying!

 

 

 

In rereading your second post, it sounds very much like the concept of "achintya-bheda-bheda-tattva": simultaneously one and different.

 

"Achintya" = inconceivable. So that means that God can do anything. To some folks, it seems totally inconceivable to them that a person can become one with God and still retain their individuality. Yet God can do the inconceivable because that is one of His qualities.

 

As my Christian mum likes to say, "All things are possible with God!"

 

Also "achingtya" means "a" = without and "chintya" = speech or talking. That means we can't realize it by just talking about it; it is beyond words. Although that book you read seems to describe the concept really nicely.

 

 

 

To me it all just seems so beautiful. Keep on doing your sadhanas nicely, as those are a nice adjunct to the theoretical understandings. Your realizations will become deeper and deeper, and your understanding more real.

 

In the branch of Shiva Siddhanta that I am familiar with, they seem to feel that any nice person can become liberated even within this lifetime. In truth, it is one of the four legitimate goals of life: dharma, artha, kama, and moksa.

 

Best wishes to you on the path! All glories to our loving Divine Guardians. Jai!