Official Ramakanta vs. IRM discussion thread

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Posted by Yaduraja on Oct 05, 2006:

 

Dear Ramakanta Prabhu,

PAMHO. AGTSP!

You wrote:

 

> So you admit that Srila Prabhupada still can change the initiation system

> in ISKCON.

 

To change the system of initiation within ISKCON would require an order from

Srila Prabhupada to the GBC. But you have never produced this order.

Therefore your challenge is based on something you clearly know nothing

about. This is rascaldom as you kindly pointed out with that nice quote you

posted. Your argument can be paraphrased as follows:

 

Because Srila Prabhupada is still alive he can intervene to change a system

he set in place prior to his departure.

 

This argument could be used about anything Srila Prabhupada set in place

before he departed. It is a purely hypothetical argument, not an argument

that could ever be used to legitimately terminate a system set in place by

Srila Prabhupada.

 

Srila Prabhupada could indeed descend to earth and issue new orders to the

GBC on anything, such as chanting 16 rounds, following 4 regs or even having

a GBC at all etc etc. But obviously no-one in their right mind would

advocate the termination of any of the preceding PURELY on the basis of such

speculative pipe dreaming. Do you understand this point now or should I

explain it again?

 

With regards the following, rather cumbersome point b):

 

"Amongst all the orders from Srila Prabhupada to the GBC that we (IRM) have

seen and that we have recognized as orders on how initiation was to run

within ISKCON, and which the GBC agree are the only orders issued to them by

Srila Prabhupada on this matter, there is no order that Srila Prabhupada

should ever stop being the diksa guru for ISKCON."

 

You say:

 

> I agree with this provided you quote the statement from the GBC confirming

> that the orders that IRM has seen and recognized as orders on how

> initiation was to run within ISKCON are the only orders issued to the GBC

> by Srila Prabhupada on this matter.

 

Sorry, you have slightly misunderstood me. When I say 'agree' I mean their

list of quotes matches ours, not that they have literally said they agree

with something.

 

In other words, if you were to read all the GBC position papers such as

‘Disciple of my Disciple’, and ‘Prabhupada’s order’, papers that purport to

demonstrate their authorisation to remove Srila Prabhupada as the sole diksa

guru for ISKCON; and if you made a note of all the quotes they present

therein, you will see that every single one of them has been considered

within one of our position papers. Since the IRM has addressed every single

one of these quotes the GBC are in agreement with us over the material

relevant for consideration on this matter.

 

We have never claimed to be perfect so it is always possible we missed

something. So if you think we have missed an order to the GBC from Srila

Prabhupada that the GBC have put forward to prove their authority to remove

Srila Prabhupada as the sole diksa guru for ISKCON , then please post it so

we can be corrected.

 

Also if the GBC have ever claimed there were other orders on this issue that

they have yet to make generally available, then please also show where they

state this.

 

Anyway to make point b) clearer and less wordy I hereby offer the following

re-wording:

 

"Amongst all the orders from Srila Prabhupada to the GBC that the GBC have

so far presented on the guru issue to justify their actions, there is no

order that we (the IRM) have seen whereby Srila Prabhupada authorises the

GBC to remove him as the sole diksa guru for ISKCON."

 

If you agree with the above then we can go to point c).

 

Best wishes

Ys

Yadu