Foodgrade Silver & Gold & contaminated sugar

[Guest guest]

I came across these articles which describes about the manufacture of sugar

from cane etc .

 

ys

 

skdas

 

*************************************************************************

Are animal ingredients included in white sugar?

 

http://www.askcarla.com/answers.asp?QuestionandanswerID=534

 

 

 

Bone char, which is used to process sugar, is made from the bones of cattle

from Afghanistan, Argentina, India, and Pakistan. The bones are sold to

traders in Scotland, Egypt, and Brazil who then sell them back to the U.S.

sugar industry. The European Union and the USDA heavily regulate the use of

bone char. Only countries that are deemed BSE-free can sell the bones of

their cattle for this process. Bone char—often referred to as natural

carbon—is widely used by the sugar industry as a decolorizing filter, which

allows the sugar cane to achieve its desirable white color. Other types of

filters involve granular carbon or an ion-exchange system rather than bone

char.

 

Bone char is also used in other types of sugar. Brown sugar is created by

adding molasses to refined sugar, so companies that use bone char in the

production of their regular sugar also use it in the production of their

brown sugar. Confectioner’s sugar—refined sugar mixed with cornstarch—made

by these companies also involves the use of bone char. Fructose may, but

does not typically, involve a bone-char filter. Supermarket brands of sugar

(e.g., Giant, Townhouse, etc.) obtain their sugar from several different

refineries, making it impossible to know whether it has been filtered with

bone char.

 

If you want to avoid all refined sugars, we recommend alternatives such as

Sucanat and turbinado sugar, which are not filtered with bone char.

Additionally, beet sugar—

 

—though normally refined—never involves the use of bone char and Edward &

Sons Trading Company has developed a vegan confectioner’s sugar which should

be available in health food stores soon.

 

It would be virtually impossible for PETA to maintain information on the

refining process used for the sugar in every product. We encourage you to

contact companies directly to ask about the source of their sugar.

 

The following companies do not use bone-char filters.

 

Monitor Sugar

2600 S. Euclid Ave.

Bay City, MI 48706

Tel.: 517-686-0161

Fax: 517-686-2959

Web: www.monitorsugar.com

 

Florida Crystals Corporation

P.O. Box 471

West Palm Beach, FL 33480

Tel.: 877-835-2828

Fax: 516-366-5200

Web: www.floridacrystals.com

 

Western Sugar

Western Sugar is a subsidiary of Tate & Lyle (formerly Domino sugar) which

does use bone-char filters. However, Western Sugar makes only beet sugar,

which does not use bone-char filters.

 

7555 E. Hampton Ave., Ste. 600

Denver, CO 80210

Tel.: 303-830-3939

Fax: 303-830-3941

Web: www.westernsugar.com

 

The following companies do use bone-char filters. Contact them and encourage

them to adopt the use of humane alternatives to bone-char filters.

 

C&H Sugar Company

2300 Contra Costa Blvd., Ste. 600

Pleasant Hill, CA 94523

Tel.: 925-688-1731

Fax: 925-822-1061

E-Mail: consumer.affairs (AT) chsugar (DOT) com

Web: www.chsugar.com

 

Savannah Foods

P.O. Box 335

Savannah, GA 31402

Tel.: 912-234-1261

 

Tate & Lyle North American Sugars Inc. (formerly Domino Sugar)

1100 Key Hwy. W.

Baltimore, MD 21230

Tel.: 1-800-638-1590

Fax: 410-783-8640

 

Imperial Sugar

P.O. Box 9

Sugarland, TX 77487

Tel.: 1-800-727-8427

Web: www.imperialsugar.com

 

Refined Sugars Inc.

1 Federal St.

Yonkers, NY 10702

Tel.: 914-963-2400

Fax: 914-963-1030

 

 

 

 

 

 

"Animal Bones"

 

http://www.sucrose.com/bonechar.html

 

We are frequently asked about the use of 'animal bones' in making sugar,

usually by people with dietary concerns such as vegetarians or vegans or

people just concerned for the animals.

 

In the past a material called 'bone char' was used extensively to remove

colour from raw cane sugar in the refining process. Modern technology has

largely replaced bone char decolourisation but it is still used in a few

refineries so one cannot be categoric about refined cane sugar being

suitable for all people's points of view. It is not used in making white

beet sugar and it is not used in making raw cane sugar.

 

Where bone char is still used, it is prepared by almost incinerating animal

bones to leave activated carbon - a bit like making wood charcoal. [The

refiners did not and ordinarily do not use wood charcoal to do the

decolourisation because it is too fragile and would break up in service.]

The bones are obtained from abattoirs and hence from animals fit for human

consumption and of course they are heated to great temperatures : there is

no risk of New Variant CJD/BSE/Mad Cow disease and no risk of Foot and Mouth

disease.

 

If you are concerned about the possibility of the sugar you use having been

treated by bone char decolourisation then you have several choices. If you

want white sugar and sugar from sugar beets is available then use that. If

you are not sure if the local sugar is from beets or cane, write to the

manufacturer and ask them, adding that, if it is cane sugar, whether they

still use bone char. If you want brown sugar, do not assume that it is

inherently untreated. Many brown sugars are actually white sugar which has

been coated with molasses. Again, check with the manufacturer if you are

concerned.

 

We hope that you found this useful.

 

**************************************************************************

 

CANE SUGAR TRUST CO. LTD

CANE SUGAR - WHAT IT IS AND HOW IT IS MADE

Sugar cane

Gramineae, Poaceae Saccharum officinarum L.

Source: Magness et al. 1971

 

Sugar cane is the source of sugar in all tropical and subtropical countries

of the world. Estimates for 1966 and 1967 indicate world production of cane

sugar was between 40 and 41 million tons. Production in the United States,

excluding Puerto Rico, averaged 2,550,000 tons during those years - from

592,000 acres of cane in Hawaii, Florida and Louisiana. Sugar production in

Puerto Rico averaged 850,000 tons for the two years.

 

Several species of Saccharum are found in Southeast Asia and neighboring

islands, and from these cultivated cane probably originated. The sweet juice

and crystallized sugar were known in China and India some 2500 years ago.

Sugar cane reached the Mediterranean countries in the eighth century A.D.,

and reached the Americas in early colonial times.

 

The cane plant is a coarse growing member of the grass family with juice or

sap high in sugar content. It is tender to cold, the tops being killed by

temperatures a little below freezing. In continental United States, where

freezing may occur during the winter, it is mainly planted in late summer or

early fall and harvested a year later. In tropical countries it may be

planted at almost any time of the year since the plant does not have a rest

period. The season of active growth in continental United States is 7 to 8

months while in tropical countries growth is near continuous until harvest.

This results in heavier yields of cane and sugar under tropical conditions.

For example, yields of cane and sugar per acre in Hawaii, where the cane is

grown for about 2 years before harvesting, are from 3 to 4 times vields in

Louisiana and Florida from one season's growth.

 

Sugar cane plants are propagated by planting sections of the stem. The

mature stems may vary from 4 to 12 feet or more ill height, and in

commercial varieties are from 0.75 to 2 inches in diameter. The stem has

joints or nodes as in other grasses. These range from 4 to 10 inches apart

along the above-ground section of the stem. At each node a broad leaf rises

which consists of a sheaf or base and the leaf blade. The sheaf is attached

to the stem at the node and at that point entirely surrounds the stem with

edges overlapping. The sheath from one node encircles the stem up to the

next node above and may overlap the base of the leaf on the next higher

node. The leaf blade is very long and narrow, varying in width from 1 to 3

inches and up to 5 feet or more in length. Also, at each node along the stem

is a bud, protected under the leaf sheath. When stem sections are planted by

laying them horizontally and covering with soil a new stem grows from the

bud, and roots grow from the base of the new stem. The stem branches below

ground so several may rise as a clump from the growth of the bud at a node.

 

In planting cane fields, mature cane stalks are cut into sections and laid

horizontally in furrows. In continental United States sections with several

nodes are laid while in tropical countries sections with 2 or 3 nodes are

commonly used - since temperatures for growth are more favorable. Usually

only one node on a stem piece develops. a new plant because of polarity

along the stem piece.

 

Planting is in rows about 6 feet apart to make possible cultivation and use

of herbicides for early weed control. As plants become tall lower leaves

along the stems are sbaded and die. These ultimately drop off, so only

leaves toward the top remain green and active. Between the nodes the stems

have a hard, thin, outer tissue or rind and a softer center. The

high-sugar-containing juice is in this center. More than one crop is

harvested from a planting. After the first crop is removed two or more

so-called stubble crops are obtained. These result from growth of new stalks

from the bases of stalks cut near the ground level in harvesting.

Harvesting

 

Harvesting of cane in Hawaii and Louisiana is highly mechanized. Machines

top the canes at a uniform height, cut them off at ground level, and deposit

them in rows. In Florida, cane is mainly cut by hand. Leaves .and trash are

burned from the cane in the rows by use of flame thrower type machines. An

alternate method is to burn the leaves from the standing cane, after which

it is cut and taken directly to the mill. Delay between cutting and milling

in either case should be as short as possible since delay results in loss of

sugar content. Machines are under development that will cut, clean and load

the cane so it can be taken directly to the mill.

 

In continental United States, where winter freezing is a hazard, cane

harvest must start earlier than is desirable for maximum yields. When plants

are killed by freezing sugar loss occurs rapidly. While such plants are

suitable for sugar extraction if harvested promptly after freezing, this may

not be possible when large acreages are involved. In non-mechanized areas

cane is still cut and the leaves stripped off by using cane knives. This is

arduous and time consuming work.

Sugar Manufacture

 

Sugar is obtained from the cane at mills located near centers of

production. The cane first goes through a washer, then is cut into small

pieces by revolving knives. These cut pieces may then be shredded or may

move to crushers directly. The crushers consist of two large grooved rollers

mounted horizontally, one above the other. The crushed, macerated cane then

goes through three or more roller mills which consist of grooved rollers

with heavy hydrolic pressure maintained on the upper roller. Water, equal to

about 20 percent, is added before the mixture is passed through each set of

rollers except the last one. Efficient mills extract at least 90 percent of

the sugar in the cane. The cane residue, called 'bagasse', can be used as

feed.

 

The mixture of plant sap and water, with the sugar in solution, collected

from the roller mills is slightly acid in reaction with a pH of 5 to 5.5. It

is neutralized with lime, which precipitates some of the colloids and other

nonsugars and also stops conversion of sucrose to reducing sugars. The limed

juice is then heated to boiling, which results in further formation of

precipitates that settle to the bottom of the tanks. These are drawn off and

filtered to remove more juice. The nearly clear juice is continuously drawn

off from the top of the tank and goes to the evaporators.

 

The evaporators are a set of three vacuum pans or "bodies" arranged in

series, with each successive pan maintained under higher vacuum. The juice

enters the first pan at 16 to 180 Brix and leaves the third at 55 to 750

Brix. It then goes to high-vacuum boiling pans - about 25 inches of mercury

- there it is further concentrated to 900 Brix and contains sugar crystals.

It then is centrifuged to remove most of the liquid or molasses. The

remaining raw or brown sugar is then ready for final refining. Much of the

imported sugar enters this country as raw sugar and is further refined here

before being marketed.

 

The final refining steps include melting the brown or raw sugar, decoloring

by passing through carbon filters, recrystallizing in vacuum boiling pans,

and drying by centrifuging. A hundred pounds of raw sugar produces about 96

pounds of refined. A ton of cane yields from less than 170 to more than 225

pounds of raw sugar, depending on such factors as variety, maturity when

harvested, promptness of milling, and incidence of diseases on the cane in

the field. Average per acre cane yields in 1966 and 67 were 23.5 tons in

Louisiana, 32.1 tons in Florida, and 95.9 tons in Hawaii.

 

The molasses obtained in milling totals around 150 million gallons in the

United States and near 60 million in Puerto Rico. It is used as an additive

in livestock feed, in the manufacture of alcohol and alcoholic beverages -

as run. and to some extent in foods. The fibrous plant residue from the

roller mills may be used as fuel at the mill, made into paper or insulating

board, or used as plant mulches or bedding for livestock.

Sugar Cane Syrup

 

Sugar cane for syrup is grown over a somewhat wider area in the United

States than cane for sugar. The area extends from eastem Texas east to South

Carolina. The culture is essentially the same as for sugar cane and some of

the varieties are the same. Since most production is in areas with a shorter

growing season than the sugar producing areas, early maturing varieties are

essential. Most of the cane grown for syrup is in small acreages and the

syrup is manufactured on a small scale, although there are a few sizable

factories.

 

For best yield and quality of syrup, harvest should be delayed until the

cane is mature, but before it is killed by freezing. Leaves are stripped

from the standing cane either by beating off with a cane stripper, cutting,

off or pulling off by hand. Stems are topped and cut near ground level.

Delay of up to 30 days between cutting and making the syrup does not impair

either yield or quality of the syrup, provided the cane does not freeze.

 

In general, mills with three horizontal rollers turned by motors are used

to extract the juice. Larger mills may use rollers under hydraulic pressure.

>From 50 to 60 pounds of juice should be obtained from 100 pounds of cane.

Open-type, continuous flow evaporators are generally used to concentraate

the juice. The cold juice enters the lower end of the evaporator which is

heated by fire beneath or, in larger installations, by steam coils. When the

juice is heated, proteins and some other nonsugar constituents coagulate,

float on the surface, and are skimmed off at the upper end. In manufactured

apparatus a final finishing or evaporating vat may be used. Proper density

of the finished product is determined by using a hydrometer (35-360 Baume),

or determining the boiling point with a thermometer (226-228 F.). The

finished syrup is then filtered and placed in containers while hot.

Production of cane syrup has fluctuated widely reaching more than 28 million

gallons in 1945 when sugar was scarce because of World War II. Production in

1966 and 1967 averaged 2,151,000 gallons annually. All is used as food. With

good varieties and good agronomic practices an acre of cane should produce

from 500 to 600 gallons of finished syrup. Average yields, however, are only

about half this amount.

[Guest guest]

> Jada Bharat Prabhu has already put together a very comprehensive list of

> vegetarian and non-vegeterian products on his website:

> <Vegetarian-Restaurants.net>

>

> In service of Srimati Vrinda Devi,

> Deena Bandhu dasa

 

That list is very good, but not comprehensive.

 

Another area is soaps, shampoos, and toothpaste....

 

Another is all sorts of body lotions and hair cream....

 

Another is leather in cars on seats and sometimes irremovably on the

steering wheel, and in shoes and clothing

 

Another is stationary glues like prit stick and so on

 

Another is building glues and solvents and so on

 

Its not so easy to escape all the meat slaughter comtaminations out there

but if we minimise as far as possible Krishna will overlook what we might

miss.

 

Even non-devotees are protesting against animal based products, so as

devotees we are expected be vigilant.

 

ys

 

ad

[Guest guest]

> > Jada Bharat Prabhu has already put together a very comprehensive list of

> > vegetarian and non-vegeterian products on his website:

> > <Vegetarian-Restaurants.net>

> >

> > In service of Srimati Vrinda Devi,

> > Deena Bandhu dasa

>

> That list is very good, but not comprehensive.

>

> Another area is soaps, shampoos, and toothpaste....

>

> Another is all sorts of body lotions and hair cream....

>

> Another is leather in cars on seats and sometimes irremovably on the

> steering wheel, and in shoes and clothing

>

> Another is stationary glues like prit stick and so on

>

> Another is building glues and solvents and so on

>

> Its not so easy to escape all the meat slaughter comtaminations out there

> but if we minimise as far as possible Krishna will overlook what we might

> miss.

 

Srila Prabhupada once gave a class on the faults of Kali-yuga. He

said that if a man has sores and itching all over his entire body, then

where will you apply the cream? He has to be dipped into it. Kali-yuga is

like that. Everything is faulty; therefore the only way out is by chanting

the Holy names with the mercy of Lord Caitanya.

 

Your humble servant,

Hari-sauri dasa

[Guest guest]

Dear Ajamila,

 

Pranam. His Divine Grace jayatah.

 

The entire argument about 'contaminated sugar' as presented by you is

specious. As indicated in one of the posts, the charcoal adsorbs certain

constituents from the sugar under process but does not itself enter the

sugar even a little bit. But this was subsequetly glossed over. If you want

to advocate boycot of bone charcoal processed sugar as a point in vegetarian

advocacy, that is a somewhat (but not fully) seperate thing, but one does

not become qualified as a vaisnava by the kind of analysis and practice you

are advocating. If that were the case then it should be expected that all

vegetarian food processing engineers and food processing factory owners in

different parts of the world would more or less automatically become high

grade vaisnavas by the slightest contact with any aspect of Krishna

consciousness. Applying the kind of reasoning you argue for, all foostuffs

touched by any non-vegetarian during any stage of its production and

distribution -- all grains, all fruit, all vegetables, all milk, all ghee,

all oils, etc. -- would have to be excluded from our offerings. Then what

about the flowers? And what about the plastic keys of your computer

keyboard, the seats and steering wheel of your car, all other plastic,

cotton and paper goods (including the books published by the BBT or any

other books of Krishna consciousness), also that have been touched by

non-vegetarins during their handling/manufacture? You and your dependents

and associates can go and live in the forest or a secluded island (if you

can find one) where you would not be contaminated, but what about the

obligation to try to actually purify youself and repay the debt owed to His

Divine Grace and the parampara by distributing the siddhanta? It is that

which will purify, not adopting artifical standards as the ones you are

advocating. One becomes a qualifed vaisnava by comprehending the words of

the acarya... not by such apparently true but actually false theses. Raghava

Pandita may have thrown away coconuts because the men carrying them touched

the ceiling over a door contaminated by the dust thrown up by the people

coming and going, but that is from another time and place and to advocate

standards of that sort for the Society at present is devious and artificial.

Sometimes meditating on them -- as maybe on his (Raghava Pandit's)

appearance or disappearnace day -- is another thing but His Divine Grace

told some of his disciples (who were complaining that there was not adequate

food in the then Soviet Union... where they were distributing books)

(paraphrase): "If there is nothing else, eat meat, but let the distribution

go on". The standard "read my books or hear my recorded talks two hours

daily". That is a more practical kind of standard to advocate.

 

Your servant

 

Rasananda das

[Guest guest]

> > > Jada Bharat Prabhu has already put together a very comprehensive list

> > > of vegetarian and non-vegeterian products on his website:

> > > <Vegetarian-Restaurants.net>

> > >

> > > In service of Srimati Vrinda Devi,

> > > Deena Bandhu dasa

> >

> > That list is very good, but not comprehensive.

> >

> > Another area is soaps, shampoos, and toothpaste....

> >

> > Another is all sorts of body lotions and hair cream....

> >

> > Another is leather in cars on seats and sometimes irremovably on the

> > steering wheel, and in shoes and clothing

> >

> > Another is stationary glues like prit stick and so on

> >

> > Another is building glues and solvents and so on

> >

> > Its not so easy to escape all the meat slaughter comtaminations out

> > there but if we minimise as far as possible Krishna will overlook what

> > we might miss.

>

> Srila Prabhupada once gave a class on the faults of Kali-yuga. He

> said that if a man has sores and itching all over his entire body, then

> where will you apply the cream? He has to be dipped into it. Kali-yuga is

> like that. Everything is faulty; therefore the only way out is by chanting

> the Holy names with the mercy of Lord Caitanya.

>

> Your humble servant,

> Hari-sauri dasa

 

That sums it up completely, all we need is Krishna's holy names. The example

of itching all over his entire body is appropriate. BBC London reported some

years ago that the average British tap water contains 2,000 plus chemicals.

One such chemical in traces that gets re-cycled with compliments from the

water companies across the country is estragen (sic), an internal

contraceptive taken by women. There is so much of that stuff going into the

water that it comes back in traces. When bathing we daily inevitably annoint

ourselves with that energy being one of many hundreds of other various

contaminants. Some devotees even drink the stuff!! So thank you Srila

Prabhupada for giving us Krishna's holy names, and some common sense too.

 

ys

 

ad

[Guest guest]

Wow you've got some extreme views there Prabhu.

 

> Dear Ajamila,

>

> Pranam. His Divine Grace jayatah.

mmmm ?

 

> The entire argument about 'contaminated sugar' as presented by you is

> specious. As indicated in one of the posts, the charcoal adsorbs certain

> constituents from the sugar under process but does not itself enter the

> sugar even a little bit. But this was subsequetly glossed over. If you

> want to advocate boycot of bone charcoal processed sugar as a point in

> vegetarian advocacy, that is a somewhat (but not fully) seperate thing,

> but one does not become qualified as a vaisnava by the kind of analysis

> and practice you are advocating.

 

You've wrongly assumed I support the extreme of abandoning every single

little thing that is contaminated but all I've said is that when offering to

the Deities the food should not in any way be contaminated with meat. This

is hardly extreme, but rather it is a very basic and most important

standard. There are many other lesser contaminations but at least lets not

offer the Deity something that has been touched or filtered by slaughtered

cow's bones.

 

You say my entire argument about contaminated sugar is false because the

bone charcol does not get mixed with the sugar but simply acts as a filter.

Your logic beggars belief!! How would you like to have your fruit juice

filtered by cow bone charcol? You are implying that sugar which has been

touched by the cow bone charcol is not contaminated! According to your logic

you can filter your food through hard stool but because it does not get

mixed there is no contamination, right? Prabhu, what are you eating?

 

Apply your logic to the cow as being your mother. If someone kills your

mother, takes her bones, uses them as a filter to prepare your food, then

offers you that food, are you going to argue that it is not contaminated

simply because it is not mixed with the food but was only used as a filter?

Hello, please be sensible.

 

 

> If that were the case then it should be

> expected that all vegetarian food processing engineers and food processing

> factory owners in different parts of the world would more or less

> automatically become high grade vaisnavas by the slightest contact with

> any aspect of Krishna consciousness. Applying the kind of reasoning you

> argue for, all foostuffs touched by any non-vegetarian during any stage of

> its production and distribution -- all grains, all fruit, all vegetables,

> all milk, all ghee, all oils, etc. -- would have to be excluded from our

> offerings. Then what about the flowers? And what about the plastic keys of

> your computer keyboard, the seats and steering wheel of your car, all

> other plastic, cotton and paper goods (including the books published by

> the BBT or any other books of Krishna consciousness), also that have been

> touched by non-vegetarins during their handling/manufacture? You and your

> dependents and associates can go and live in the forest or a secluded

> island (if you can find one) where you would not be contaminated, but what

> about the obligation to try to actually purify youself and repay the debt

> owed to His Divine Grace and the parampara by distributing the siddhanta?

> It is that which will purify, not adopting artifical standards as the ones

> you are advocating. One becomes a qualifed vaisnava by comprehending the

> words of the acarya... not by such apparently true but actually false

> theses. Raghava Pandita may have thrown away coconuts because the men

> carrying them touched the ceiling over a door contaminated by the dust

> thrown up by the people coming and going, but that is from another time

> and place and to advocate standards of that sort for the Society at

> present is devious and artificial. Sometimes meditating on them -- as

> maybe on his (Raghava Pandit's) appearance or disappearnace day -- is

> another thing but His Divine Grace told some of his disciples (who were

> complaining that there was not adequate food in the then Soviet Union...

> where they were distributing books) (paraphrase): "If there is nothing

> else, eat meat, but let the distribution go on". The standard "read my

> books or hear my recorded talks two hours daily". That is a more practical

> kind of standard to advocate.

>

> Your servant

>

> Rasananda das

 

Raghava Pandit's example was not the standard I was advocating as you

wrongly assumed again. This is merely your jumping to an extreme and then

accusing another of the same when in fact no such recommendation was made. I

quoted such an example to indicate the topmost standard and that

comparatively we should at least come in on the bottom level and deal with

serious contaminations such as any food mixed with animal slaughter

derivatives. You then went to the other extreme about eating meat in an

emergency which nobody has denied in this conversation.

 

To bash us with the point about the standard of reading two hours daily is

irrelevant to the point in discussion. I think your thoughts should be more

balanced and focused rather than quoting extremes that no one else is

suggesting be implemented. It appears you are not listening to what is

actually being said but rather needlessly making wrong assumptions. It would

be more helpful Prabhu if you pay better attention. Our primary concern here

is how to please the Deity by offering the purest food available. We know we

cant achieve the highest standard and we also know that we dont have to

resort to emergency measures like eating meat. We only want to please Srila

Prabhupada and his ISKCON Deities with at least a reasonable meat-free

standard of food offerings.

 

With best wishes

 

ys

 

ad

[Guest guest]

Obeisances to everyone.

 

No disrespect, any chance of having me removed as a receiver?

 

YS Gauri

 

On Sun, 8 Oct 2006 00:53 -0400, Ajamila (das) ACBSP (Goloka Books - UK) <

Ajamila.ACBSP (AT) pamho (DOT) net> wrote:

>

> Wow you've got some extreme views there Prabhu.

>

> > Dear Ajamila,

> >

> > Pranam. His Divine Grace jayatah.

> mmmm ?

>

> > The entire argument about 'contaminated sugar' as presented by you is

> > specious. As indicated in one of the posts, the charcoal adsorbs certain

> > constituents from the sugar under process but does not itself enter the

> > sugar even a little bit. But this was subsequetly glossed over. If you

> > want to advocate boycot of bone charcoal processed sugar as a point in

> > vegetarian advocacy, that is a somewhat (but not fully) seperate thing,

> > but one does not become qualified as a vaisnava by the kind of analysis

> > and practice you are advocating.

>

> You've wrongly assumed I support the extreme of abandoning every single

> little thing that is contaminated but all I've said is that when offering

> to

> the Deities the food should not in any way be contaminated with meat. This

> is hardly extreme, but rather it is a very basic and most important

> standard. There are many other lesser contaminations but at least lets not

> offer the Deity something that has been touched or filtered by slaughtered

> cow's bones.

>

> You say my entire argument about contaminated sugar is false because the

> bone charcol does not get mixed with the sugar but simply acts as a

> filter.

> Your logic beggars belief!! How would you like to have your fruit juice

> filtered by cow bone charcol? You are implying that sugar which has been

> touched by the cow bone charcol is not contaminated! According to your

> logic

> you can filter your food through hard stool but because it does not get

> mixed there is no contamination, right? Prabhu, what are you eating?

>

> Apply your logic to the cow as being your mother. If someone kills your

> mother, takes her bones, uses them as a filter to prepare your food, then

> offers you that food, are you going to argue that it is not contaminated

> simply because it is not mixed with the food but was only used as a

> filter?

> Hello, please be sensible.

>

>

> > If that were the case then it should be

> > expected that all vegetarian food processing engineers and food

> processing

> > factory owners in different parts of the world would more or less

> > automatically become high grade vaisnavas by the slightest contact with

> > any aspect of Krishna consciousness. Applying the kind of reasoning you

> > argue for, all foostuffs touched by any non-vegetarian during any stage

> of

> > its production and distribution -- all grains, all fruit, all

> vegetables,

> > all milk, all ghee, all oils, etc. -- would have to be excluded from our

> > offerings. Then what about the flowers? And what about the plastic keys

> of

> > your computer keyboard, the seats and steering wheel of your car, all

> > other plastic, cotton and paper goods (including the books published by

> > the BBT or any other books of Krishna consciousness), also that have

> been

> > touched by non-vegetarins during their handling/manufacture? You and

> your

> > dependents and associates can go and live in the forest or a secluded

> > island (if you can find one) where you would not be contaminated, but

> what

> > about the obligation to try to actually purify youself and repay the

> debt

> > owed to His Divine Grace and the parampara by distributing the

> siddhanta?

> > It is that which will purify, not adopting artifical standards as the

> ones

> > you are advocating. One becomes a qualifed vaisnava by comprehending the

> > words of the acarya... not by such apparently true but actually false

> > theses. Raghava Pandita may have thrown away coconuts because the men

> > carrying them touched the ceiling over a door contaminated by the dust

> > thrown up by the people coming and going, but that is from another time

> > and place and to advocate standards of that sort for the Society at

> > present is devious and artificial. Sometimes meditating on them -- as

> > maybe on his (Raghava Pandit's) appearance or disappearnace day -- is

> > another thing but His Divine Grace told some of his disciples (who were

> > complaining that there was not adequate food in the then Soviet Union...

> > where they were distributing books) (paraphrase): "If there is nothing

> > else, eat meat, but let the distribution go on". The standard "read my

> > books or hear my recorded talks two hours daily". That is a more

> practical

> > kind of standard to advocate.

> >

> > Your servant

> >

> > Rasananda das

>

> Raghava Pandit's example was not the standard I was advocating as you

> wrongly assumed again. This is merely your jumping to an extreme and then

> accusing another of the same when in fact no such recommendation was made.

> I

> quoted such an example to indicate the topmost standard and that

> comparatively we should at least come in on the bottom level and deal with

> serious contaminations such as any food mixed with animal slaughter

> derivatives. You then went to the other extreme about eating meat in an

> emergency which nobody has denied in this conversation.

>

> To bash us with the point about the standard of reading two hours daily is

> irrelevant to the point in discussion. I think your thoughts should be

> more

> balanced and focused rather than quoting extremes that no one else is

> suggesting be implemented. It appears you are not listening to what is

> actually being said but rather needlessly making wrong assumptions. It

> would

> be more helpful Prabhu if you pay better attention. Our primary concern

> here

> is how to please the Deity by offering the purest food available. We know

> we

> cant achieve the highest standard and we also know that we dont have to

> resort to emergency measures like eating meat. We only want to please

> Srila

> Prabhupada and his ISKCON Deities with at least a reasonable meat-free

> standard of food offerings.

>

> With best wishes

>

> ys

>

> ad

>