Ch 6. pt 1

[Guest guest]

Dear Sunder-ji,

Pranams.

 

Ch.6 is one of the most beautiful chapters in the Gita

and its importance lies in the fact that it is likely

the only portion in the entire prasthanatraya which

details the methodology of nidhidhyasana or dhyana.

The entire chapter deals with nidhidhyasana and its

culmination in selfrealization and the fruit of this

is (not a timebound trance but) everabiding

selfknowledge or in other words jivanmukti.

 

While a detailed and exhaustive discussion on this

chapter is not possible even with multiple posts, I

can humbly attempt to share my understanding of some

key verses of this chapter, so we can understand them

in line with this vedantic thought. I shall post along

as time permits.

 

The portion of this chapter relevant to this

discussion starts in sloka 8. Some bit of this has

already been alluded to in the previous chapter and

Bhagwan here is continuing that thread only.

___________________________

6.8

jnana-vijnana-trptatma

kuta-stho vijitendriyah

yukta ity ucyate yogi

sama-lostrasma-kancanah

 

6.8 A yogi, jnana-vijnana-trpta-atma, whose mind is

content with knowledge and realization - jnana is

thorough knowledge of things presented by the

scriptures, but vijnana is making those things known

from the scriptures a part of one's own realization

just as they have been presented; he whose mind (atma)

has become contented (trpta) with those jnana and

vijnana is jnana-vijnana-trpta-atma-; He

is unmoved, i.e. he becomes unshakable; for he has

subdued the senses. Whoeever answers to this

description is integarted; is said to be concentrated.

To this Yogi a clod, a stone and gold are all alike.

____________________________

SS

So right away what is the primary subject matter

becomes clear. When does a Yogi have an equal vision

towards everything in life? Forever. Is this a

timebound trance like state thet Shankara is

talking about here?? So right away it is

clear that a timebound state of nirvikalpa samadhi is

not being talked off here in this chapter. Also,

note that "realization" here is clearly not meant to

indicate some mystic objective experience of Brahman,

and this is further well clarified in the later slokas

as well.

_____________________

6.14

prasantatma vigata-bhir

brahmacari-vrate sthitah

manah samyamya mac-citto

yukta asita mat-parah

 

With a tranquil mind, with a mind completely at peace;

free from fear, firm; brahmacari-vrate, in the vow of

a

celibate, the vow cosisting in serivce of the teacher,

eating food got by begging, etc.-firm in that, with

the

mind fixed on Me who am the supreme God; by

controlling the moods of the mind, through

concentration; he should remain seated; with Me, the

Self, as the supreme Goal. This contrasts with a man

who may direct his thoughts to a woman, for example

but who may not deem her supreme; for him the king or

Deity may be supreme; Here the yogi not only has his

mind on Me but has Me as his Supreme Goal. After that,

now is being stated the result of Yoga

_______________________

SS

This is a beautiful description of nidhidhyasanam.

Again, when you read about brahmacharya, eating food

got by begging, etc one understands that it an entire

lifestyle transformation that is being talked about

here, not something that is being asked to be carried

out for a few hours or anything like that. The result

which will subsequently be talked about also is an

everlasting result, not a timebound one..

Another thing to note, is this person's goal is set on

Me, the Atman. This presupposes that shravanam and

mananam have to have already preceded this stage. Else

you cannot fix your mind on Atman or the Self, without

first having a clear understanding of the words Atman

or Self.

_____________________

yunjann evam sadatmanam

yogi niyata-manasah

santim nirvana-paramam

mat-samstham adhigacchati

6.15 Concentrating the mind thus, according to the

methods shown above unintermittently the yogi, of

disciplined mind achieves the Peace, the

indifference to worldly attachments and possessions;

which culminates in nirvana Liberation; which is

abidance in Me, the Self.

________________

SS

The fruit of this is achievement of ENDURING Peace, an

eternal abidance in the Self. Again this is NOT a

timebound experiential state.

 

 

My humble advice, in general, is to not treat

individual sentences in the Gita as complete upadesha

without understanding their context and place in the

entire vedantic teaching, as many posts here have

tried to do here.

This is because not one chapter in the entire Gita can

be independently analyzed without bearing in mind the

overall context of the Masterpiece. In the same Gita,

as you are well aware, at different times the Lord

will as though be saying seemingly conflicting things.

 

I shall continue my posts on this CH 6 and shall also

humbly detail my understanding of the shlokas you

referenced in the next few posts - once again, without

going about this systematically with the general theme

of the chapter and of its place in the Gita, it is

impossible to make any meaningful sense of individual

slokas.

 

More in the next post

Hari OM

Shri Gurubhyo namah

 

Shyam

 

 

--- Sundar Rajan <avsundarrajan > wrote:

 

> I don't know what your reading of Sankara's words

> would be but to me

> it seems very clear that Sankara is clearly talking

> about a time-

> bound practice resulting in "the mind of the yogi

> merging in the

> Self Itself."

>

> So, if we apply the logic from your message, Sankara

> surely must

> have a grave misunderstanding of Vedanta :-)

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Respected Shyam-ji ,

 

Thanx for this treat. i enjoyed reading every word of it.

 

At the end of your well written post , you conclude

 

(My humble advice, in general, is to not treat

individual sentences in the Gita as complete upadesha

without understanding their context and place in the

entire vedantic teaching, as many posts here have

tried to do here.

This is because not one chapter in the entire Gita can

be independently analyzed without bearing in mind the

overall context of the Masterpiece. In the same Gita,

as you are well aware, at different times the Lord

will as though be saying seemingly conflicting things)

 

May i please share something without appearing to condradict you ?

Believe it or not , for an 'adhama' adhikari like me ,( i am not

an 'uttama' adhikari like many scholars here) the foloowing verse

from Chapter 18 , verse 65 is the key to understanding the entire

Srimad Bhagwat Gita !

 

Chapter 18, Verse 65

 

manmanaa bhava madbhakto madyaajii maaM namaskuru |

maamevaishhyasi satyaM te pratijaane priyo.asi me ||

 

Give your mind to Me, be devoted to Me, worship Me and bow to Me.

Doing so, you will come to Me alone, I truly promise you, for you

are so exceptionally dear to Me.

 

I think this is the best UPADESHA the lord has given in the entire

Srimad BHAGWAT GITA !Unless one surrenders to Lord Krisha ( OR ONE'S

PERSONAL ISHTA -NISHTA , BY WHATEVER NAME ONE'S WANTS TO ADDRESS

HIM/HER) understanding of all verses will be only at

an 'intellectual' level!

 

Shyamji, chapter 6 seems ( Sankhya yoga) to be your favorite chapter

in Srimad Bhagwat Gita !

 

please read this verse from the same chapter 6 , VERSE 47

 

yoginam api sarvesam

mad-gatenantar-atmana

sraddhavan bhajate yo mam

sa me yuktatamo matah

 

 

And of all yogis, he who always abides in Me with great faith,

worshiping Me in transcendental loving service, is most intimately

united with Me in yoga and is the highest of all.

 

 

This verse (47)in chsapter 6 is in full conformity with the verse

65 in chapter 18!

 

Of course ! As a doctor, what you say , is right ! in order to

understand the whole anatomy of the human body , we need to

understand how each part of the body works to contribute to the well

being of the entire body! My nephew, who is an endocronologist ,

and a specialist in treating 'diabetes' says to me always 'aunty! if

you specialize in treating 'diabetes' you can pretty much treat the

entire body for diabetes affects every oorgan in the human body- the

eyes, the nerves, the vascular system, the circulatory sysytem, the

heart, etc etc etc ... " Tthis is true of the Srimad Bhagwad gita

also ! you cannot dissect the Gita and read each verse as a stand

alone verse !

 

However , we are familiar with this dictum from Srimad

BHAGVAT ... 'shraddhavaan labhate jnanam' ...

 

Shraddha has the 'Stength' that even surpasses our so called

intellects or reasoning abilities .

 

As my favorite poet Khalil Gibran says

 

" Faith is an oasis in the heart which will never be reached by the

caravan of thinking."

 

and as our most respected Ananda wood says again and again ' the

love for truth' is the strong foundation on which this 'faith' or

shraddha rests !

 

 

with warmest regards

 

 

 

 

advaitin, Shyam <shyam_md wrote:

>

> Dear Sunder-ji,

> Pranams.

>

> Ch.6 is one of the most beautiful chapters in the Gita

> and its importance lies in the fact that it is likely

> the only portion in the entire prasthanatraya which

> details the methodology of nidhidhyasana or dhyana.

> The entire chapter deals with nidhidhyasana and its

> culmination in selfrealization and the fruit of this

> is (not a timebound trance but) everabiding

> selfknowledge or in other words jivanmukti.

>

>

[Guest guest]

Namaste Sri Dhyanasaraswati - ji:

 

That is a beautiful quote. Your vitality and energy is always uplifting.

I am reminded of Pascal's quote, similar to Gibran's.

"The heart has its reasons, where reason cannot go"

Or perhaps it is "The heart has its reasons, which reason cannot know"

or something like that.

 

I have one question Dhyanasaraswati - ji. Did you not use to go by

Adi-ji? Why the name change? Just curious. Both names are wonderful.

 

Love to all

Harsha

 

dhyanasaraswati wrote:

>

> As my favorite poet Khalil Gibran says

>

> " Faith is an oasis in the heart which will never be reached by the

> caravan of thinking."

>

[Guest guest]

Thank you Harsha-ji!

 

Yes - i used to post as adi_shakthi16 in this group! But by a

strange Quirk of fate , i became a persona-no grata in this id ... i

again reincarnated in my Dhayansaraswati id ! This name was

lovingly given to me by a yoga teacher sri Bhavanidasan who was a

member of my group!He always encouraged me in my Sadhana with his

loving kindness!

 

Harsha-ji, in any case what is in a name ? as our Bard POET

Shakespeare would say ! " What's in a name? That which we call a

rose - By any other name would smell as sweet." — (Romeo and Juliet)

 

In any case, you are right both names are beautiful and divine ! How

can they not be ? Devi is worshippable in all her names and forms !

She is worshippable in her formless aspec too! Again, as

Shakespeare would say " Age cannot wither her, nor custom stale

Her infinite variety" ( Anthony and cleopatra) ! Yes , Devi is

Shodasi ( 16 year old Kanya kumari) and also Dhoomavati ( the old

widow - one of the dasha mahavidyas.)

 

Harsha-ji, i see that you are very much into Goddess Worship ! you

are absolutely right - Sri Ramana used to do yantra puja - no wonder

the

devotees found a sri chakra in his loin cloth after he attained

Samadhi!

 

Harsha-ji, i would encourage you to read sri Ramana's translation of

Devi Kalotram -THIS IS A UPA AGAMA - This is a Jnãna bestowing one,

too. .

 

While Ramana Maharishi lived on Arunãchala hill, a devotee brought

the Sanskrit palm leaflets of the 'Ãgama'. He was surprised to find

amongst the branches of the 'Ãgamãs' that detail 'kriyãs', one that

preached Jnãna! It was in this that the Maharishi

found "Devikãlotram - Jnãnãsãra visãra padalam" and "Sarva

Jnãnotaram - Ãnma sãkshãtkãra prakaranam". Both speak of the

formless Para Brahmam! Both are 'upadesa' by Ishwara (Lord Siva),

the former to Devi and the latter to Lord Muruga (Subrahmanya).

 

(maybe our SUNDER-JI could post a link for devi kalotram or ditect

us to a book)

 

PLEASE VISIT THIS WEBSITE

 

http://www.madhuramurali.org/swamigal/essay/devikalotram/ji_devikalot

ram2a.html

 

yaa devi sarva bhuteshu Shakti rupena snasthita ! namstasyaii

namastasyaii ! om namo namaha !

[Guest guest]

Harsha-ji, i see that you are very much into Goddess Worship ! you are

absolutely right - Sri Ramana used to do yantra puja - no wonder the

devotees found a sri chakra in his loin cloth after he attained Samadhi!

 

praNAms mAtAji

Hare Krishna

 

This is really interesting!! *sri chakra in ramaNa's koupIna* !!! could

you please give detailed account of this incident mAtAji?? Thanks in

advance.

 

Hari Hari Hari Bol!!!

bhaskar

[Guest guest]

advaitin, "dhyanasaraswati"

 

 

> wrote: a link for devi kalotram or dieect

> us to a book)

>

 

 

http://www.sub.uni-

goettingen.de/ebene_1/fiindolo/gretil/1_sanskr/4_rellit/saiva/stkal_p

u.htm

 

or

 

http://tinyurl.com/ljzu7

 

===============================================

 

http://www.ramana-maharshi.org/ (English Publications Catalogue)

 

Sri Devikalottara (Jnanachara Vichara Patala)

This is a portion of the Upa Agamas emphasising Advaita. Contains

Sanskrit text, English transliteration and translation and Tamil

verse

translation of Maharshi.

[1998, 1st Ed. PB, Size A, 91 pp., 3706; 81-88018-78-3]

$ 5.00

[Guest guest]

Dear Dhyanasaraswat-ji:

 

The works that you mention are in the book, "Collected Works of Ramana

Maharshi."

 

Devikalottara (Verse 46). The consciousness which shines as "I" in the

Heart is pure [flawless] and perfectly steady [without a trace of

movement]. By destroying the ego which [rises from that consciousness],

that consciousness itself bestows the supreme joy of liberation.

 

Dhyansarswati-ji, I am not much into formal Goddess worship. I would not

know how to go about doing it. I did practice Shakti Mantras for many

years as part of my yogic practices. Involuntarily, I sometimes say, Om

Shakti Nama, Om Devi Nama. I don't know if this is part of a formal mantra..

 

When I was young and started having many experiences in meditation, fear

sometimes gripped me. Remarkably, in many types of savikalpa spiritual

experiences, I started sensing a clear and unmistakable feminine

presence embracing me and comforting me. My fear would then vanish and I

would feel safe in that state or level of consciousness. I did not know

much about Goddess worship or the Divine Mother. When these experiences

in meditation continued, I read some books and concluded that it must be

the Shakti as the Goddess. Prior to that, I wondered why people get so

emotional and nutty about these things and dance and worship the Goddess

and sing songs to her and so forth.

 

Later on after many years, I had a very clear strong and pure vision of

the form of the Goddess. In the vision, she was in her ever perfect

youthful form and was the epitome of complete innocence, beauty, and

purity, and radiated a most gentle smile full of silent blessings and

her eyes beamed with such compassion and kindness. I was completely

stunned and could only fold my hand and bow.

 

Thanks for the chance to speak about the Supreme Goddess.

 

Love to all

Harsha

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

dhyanasaraswati wrote:

>

> Harsha-ji, i see that you are very much into Goddess Worship ! you

> are absolutely right - Sri Ramana used to do yantra puja - no wonder

> the devotees found a sri chakra in his loin cloth after he attained

> Samadhi!

>

> Harsha-ji, i would encourage you to read sri Ramana's translation of

> Devi Kalotram -THIS IS A UPA AGAMA - This is a Jnãna bestowing one,

> too. .

>

> While Ramana Maharishi lived on Arunãchala hill, a devotee brought

> the Sanskrit palm leaflets of the 'Ãgama'. He was surprised to find

> amongst the branches of the 'Ãgamãs' that detail 'kriyãs', one that

> preached Jnãna! It was in this that the Maharishi

> found "Devikãlotram - Jnãnãsãra visãra padalam" and "Sarva

> Jnãnotaram - Ãnma sãkshãtkãra prakaranam". Both speak of the

> formless Para Brahmam! Both are 'upadesa' by Ishwara (Lord Siva),

> the former to Devi and the latter to Lord Muruga (Subrahmanya).

>

[Guest guest]

Pranams Dhyanasaraswatiji

 

Thank you for your kind words and uplifting thoughts.

What else is jnana but the surrendering in toto of the

ego, (and in the process, gaining the Supreme?!)

 

The verse you quoted is certainly one I would

personally consider as one of the best and poignant

verses in the entire teaching.

 

But take it strictly by itself, and one might think -

OK - no selfeffort is necessary (- since I am so dear

to Bhagwan, let Bhagwan, when the time comes, grant me

moksha!)

 

But elsewhere in the Gita, Bhagwan himself emphasizes

selfeffort, is it not?

 

I appreciate and fully share your ideas on the

absolute role of Ishwara samarpanam in gaiining

selfknowledge.

 

Pranams,

Hari OM

 

Shyam

 

--- dhyanasaraswati <dhyanasaraswati > wrote:

 

> Give your mind to Me, be devoted to Me, worship Me

> and bow to Me.

> Doing so, you will come to Me alone, I truly promise

> you, for you

> are so exceptionally dear to Me.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Namaste Shyamji,

 

Your views are definitely consistent with Shankara's commentaries.

Thanks for sharing your clear understanding. Cheers.

 

Kathirasan

 

On 10/9/06, shyam_md <shyam_md > wrote:

> 6.18

> yada viniyatam cittam

> atmany evavatisthate

> nisprhah sarva-kamebhyo

> yukta ity ucyate tada

>

>

> A yogi, who has become free from hankering (thirst) for all

> desirable objects, seen and unseen; is then said to be Self-

> absorbed; when the controlled mind, i.e. the mind that has

> been made fully one-pointed by giving up thought of

> external objects rests in the non-dual Self alone, i.e. he gets

> established in his own Self. An illustration in being given for the

> mind of that yogi which has become Self-absorbed:

>

> 6.19

> yatha dipo nivata-stho

> nengate sopama smrta

> yogino yata-cittasya

> yunjato yogam atmanah

>

>

> As a lamp kept in a windless place does not flicker such is the

> simile - thought of, by the knowers of Yoga who understand the

> movements of the mind for the yogi whose mind is under control who

> is engaged in contemplation on the Self, i.e. who is practising Self-

> absorption (SS: nidhidhyasanam). By dint of practising Yoga thus,

> when the mind, comparable to a lamp in a windless place, becomes