Guest guest Posted October 10, 2006 Report Share Posted October 10, 2006 Everyone is raving about the all-new Mail. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 10, 2006 Report Share Posted October 10, 2006 Sri Subbuji, Surprisingly, nothing appeared in your post "Unknown". I do not know whether others got it. Just for information only. Or, you indicate the "unknown" as blank? Warm regards V Subrahmanian <subrahmanian_v > wrote: Everyone is raving about the all-new Mail. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 10, 2006 Report Share Posted October 10, 2006 Sri Subbuji, Surprisingly, nothing appeared in your post "Unknown". I do not know whether others got it. Just for information only. Or, you indicate the "unknown" as blank? Warm regards V Subrahmanian <subrahmanian_v > wrote: Everyone is raving about the all-new Mail. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 10, 2006 Report Share Posted October 10, 2006 I think we have to look for the lakshyArtha! Madathil Nair ______________ advaitin, "R.S.MANI" <r_s_mani wrote: > > Sri Subbuji, > Surprisingly, nothing appeared in your post "Unknown". I do not know whether others got it. Just for information only. > Or, you indicate the "unknown" as blank? > Warm regards > > V Subrahmanian <subrahmanian_v wrote: > > > > > Everyone is raving about the all-new Mail. > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 10, 2006 Report Share Posted October 10, 2006 advaitin, "Madathil Rajendran Nair" <madathilnair wrote: > > I think we have to look for the lakshyArtha! > > Madathil Nair > ______________ > > advaitin, "R.S.MANI" <r_s_mani@> wrote: > > > > Sri Subbuji, > > Surprisingly, nothing appeared in your post "Unknown". I do not > know whether others got it. Just for information only. > > Or, you indicate the "unknown" as blank? > > Warm regards Namaste, My apologies to the List Moderators, Shri Mani ji and Shri Nair ji, Due to a 'slip' of the finger a message with no contents appeared. I realized it immediately, but before sending in an apology, i got busy, for about one hour, composing a reply to Shri Mani ji. Unfortunately it has not appeared so far, despite my 'send'ing it. Nair ji, certainly my 'blank' message is not the mauna-vyAkhyA of Sridakshinamurti. I suddenly recall an old Hindi film song: mera jivan kora kAgaz, kora hi rah gaya...(My life is a blank sheet of paper; it has remained ever so..)Nair ji, would you like to give it any advaitic meaning? I recently, pleasantly, found that you had gone 'verse'atile. Warm regards, subbu Om Tat Sat Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 10, 2006 Report Share Posted October 10, 2006 Namaste Subbuji. I thought your blank post was a loud roaring laughter at our vociferous verbosity. I too like that song. I used to hum it like a great tragedian in my old Mumbai days. Mind you, I have a streak of unpardonable masochism in me. However, the advaitin in me can never chime with a blank-paper- life idea. Talking about blankness, here is an analogy I thought of recently. I have tried to present it in verse form. Perhaps, it might be helpful in understanding sleep and NS. ___ Sleep is a blank blank black board. The board is, Because hidden in it Is the Light that shines it. The Light shines out in NS, Makes the board a Self-Luminiscence. We are a Self-Luminiscent board, Awake, 'adream' or asleep. The glow breaks into shapes, Creation then is born. "I" am one of the shapes That chases the others, Falters, falls and sobs. "I" am Self-Luminiscence, Oh, "I" know that not. NS, NS, help me out, Show me once more who am I. Have I granted any undue respectablity to NS? PraNAms. Madathil Nair __________________ advaitin, "subrahmanian_v" wrote > Due to a 'slip' of the finger a message with no contents appeared. > I realized it immediately, but before sending in an apology, i got > busy, for about one hour, composing a reply to Shri Mani ji. > Unfortunately it has not appeared so far, despite my 'send'ing it. > > Nair ji, certainly my 'blank' message is not the mauna-vyAkhyA of > Sridakshinamurti. I suddenly recall an old Hindi film song: > mera jivan kora kAgaz, kora hi rah gaya...(My life is a blank sheet > of paper; it has remained ever so..)Nair ji, would you like to give > it any advaitic meaning? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 10, 2006 Report Share Posted October 10, 2006 advaitin, "Madathil Rajendran Nair" <madathilnair wrote: > Perhaps, it might be helpful > in understanding sleep and NS. > ___ > > Sleep is a blank blank black board. > The board is, > Because hidden in it > Is the Light that shines it. > The Light shines out in NS, > Makes the board a Self-Luminiscence. > We are a Self-Luminiscent board, > Awake, 'adream' or asleep. > The glow breaks into shapes, > Creation then is born. > "I" am one of the shapes > That chases the others, > Falters, falls and sobs. > "I" am Self-Luminiscence, > Oh, "I" know that not. > NS, NS, help me out, > Show me once more who am I. > > Have I granted any undue respectablity to NS? > > PraNAms. > > Madathil Nair Many thanks Nair ji. That's a great poem that covers in just a few verse-lines the journey of the I from its creation to cremation. Humble pranams, subbu Om Tat Sat PS: So, the caption '(unknown)' has survived to elicit so many responses! Let us put an end to that as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 8, 2009 Report Share Posted July 8, 2009 Dear Rafe, I think this is only a passing phase of the Gunas ( certain form of tamas), which comes occaisionally like a cloud passing before the Sun. It doesn't last very long in my opinion and should not be a cause of concern.. Hope this is helpful? Others may have more to say. All love, Yours in Bhagavan, Alan--- On Wed, 8/7/09, rafaelstoneman <rafaelstoneman wrote: rafaelstoneman <rafaelstoneman (unknown) Date: Wednesday, 8 July, 2009, 6:56 PM Dear Ramana and fellow devotees...when the overwhelming sense of disinterst risesit rises with disinterest in everythingdisinterest in devotiondisinterst in self inquirycan this be a vasana that is worthy to lay at the feet of the Sat Guruand can we here look into this with delicate clarityto be specific, this disinterest is not an emotion but more the presence of infinite indifferenceas i await the response in the heart from Ramana Himself (the eternal back of all beings)i await the responses from fellow lovers of our Sat Gurui would say humbly yours,but humility doesn't seem to be presentonly indifferenceand please do not be confused, i could delete this right now and would for certain if Ramana did not allow this to rise for the sake of His purposeall responses are welcomei only ask for complete honesty and the purest compassion that can be mustered for such a subject Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 8, 2009 Report Share Posted July 8, 2009 i agree with the passing approach... the investigation may be worthy not a cause for concern, certainly not. but perhaps a cause for finding a specific story about Ramana or a specific statement that applies to this He did after all spend two years in caves of disinterest , Alan Jacobs <alanadamsjacobs wrote: > > Dear Rafe, > > I think this is only a passing phase of the Gunas ( certain form of tamas), which comes occaisionally like a cloud passing before the Sun. It doesn't last very long in my opinion and should not be a cause of concern. > > Hope this is helpful? Others may have more to say. > > All love, > > Yours in Bhagavan, > > Alan > > --- On Wed, 8/7/09, rafaelstoneman <rafaelstoneman wrote: > > > rafaelstoneman <rafaelstoneman > (unknown) > > Wednesday, 8 July, 2009, 6:56 PM > > Dear Ramana and fellow devotees... > > when the overwhelming sense of disinterst rises > it rises with disinterest in everything > > disinterest in devotion > disinterst in self inquiry > > can this be a vasana that is worthy to lay at the feet of the Sat Guru > and can we here look into this with delicate clarity > > to be specific, this disinterest is not an emotion but more the presence of infinite indifference > > as i await the response in the heart from Ramana Himself (the eternal back of all beings) > > i await the responses from fellow lovers of our Sat Guru > > i would say humbly yours, > but humility doesn't seem to be present > only indifference > > and please do not be confused, i could delete this right now and would for certain if Ramana did not allow this to rise for the sake of His purpose > > all responses are welcome > i only ask for complete honesty and the purest compassion that can be mustered for such a subject > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 8, 2009 Report Share Posted July 8, 2009 Dear Rafe, I do not know one off hand , but perhaps another member will. All love, Alan--- On Wed, 8/7/09, rafaelstoneman <rafaelstoneman wrote: rafaelstoneman <rafaelstonemanRe: (unknown) Date: Wednesday, 8 July, 2009, 7:08 PM i agree with the passing approach...the investigation may be worthy not a cause for concern, certainly not.but perhaps a cause for finding a specific story about Ramanaor a specific statement that applies to thisHe did after all spend two years in caves of disinterest , Alan Jacobs <alanadamsjacobs@ ...> wrote:>> Dear Rafe,> > I think this is only a passing phase of the Gunas ( certain form of tamas), which comes occaisionally like a cloud passing before the Sun. It doesn't last very long in my opinion and should not be a cause of concern.> > Hope this is helpful? Others may have more to say.> > All love,> > Yours in Bhagavan,> > Alan> > --- On Wed, 8/7/09, rafaelstoneman <rafaelstoneman@ ...> wrote:> > > rafaelstoneman <rafaelstoneman@ ...>> (unknown)> > Wednesday, 8 July, 2009, 6:56 PM> > > > > > > > > Dear Ramana and fellow devotees...> > when the overwhelming sense of disinterst rises> it rises with disinterest in everything> > disinterest in devotion> disinterst in self inquiry> > can this be a vasana that is worthy to lay at the feet of the Sat Guru> and can we here look into this with delicate clarity> > to be specific, this disinterest is not an emotion but more the presence of infinite indifference> > as i await the response in the heart from Ramana Himself (the eternal back of all beings)> > i await the responses from fellow lovers of our Sat Guru> > i would say humbly yours,> but humility doesn't seem to be present> only indifference> > and please do not be confused, i could delete this right now and would for certain if Ramana did not allow this to rise for the sake of His purpose> > all responses are welcome> i only ask for complete honesty and the purest compassion that can be mustered for such a subject> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 8, 2009 Report Share Posted July 8, 2009 I found one to be helpful: " One who is indiffernt to pain or pleasure can alone be happy. " (The Essential Teachings of Ramana Maharshi; a visual journey.) Thank you for your prompt response Alan. , Alan Jacobs <alanadamsjacobs wrote: > > Dear Rafe, > > I do not know one off hand , but perhaps another member will. All love, Alan > > --- On Wed, 8/7/09, rafaelstoneman <rafaelstoneman wrote: > > > rafaelstoneman <rafaelstoneman > Re: (unknown) > > Wednesday, 8 July, 2009, 7:08 PM > > i agree with the passing approach... > the investigation may be worthy > not a cause for concern, certainly not. > but perhaps a cause for finding a specific story about Ramana > or a specific statement that applies to this > > He did after all spend two years in caves of disinterest > > , Alan Jacobs <alanadamsjacobs@ ...> wrote: > > > > Dear Rafe, > > > > I think this is only a passing phase of the Gunas ( certain form of tamas), which comes occaisionally like a cloud passing before the Sun. It doesn't last very long in my opinion and should not be a cause of concern. > > > > Hope this is helpful? Others may have more to say. > > > > All love, > > > > Yours in Bhagavan, > > > > Alan > > > > --- On Wed, 8/7/09, rafaelstoneman <rafaelstoneman@ ...> wrote: > > > > > > rafaelstoneman <rafaelstoneman@ ...> > > (unknown) > > > > Wednesday, 8 July, 2009, 6:56 PM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Ramana and fellow devotees... > > > > when the overwhelming sense of disinterst rises > > it rises with disinterest in everything > > > > disinterest in devotion > > disinterst in self inquiry > > > > can this be a vasana that is worthy to lay at the feet of the Sat Guru > > and can we here look into this with delicate clarity > > > > to be specific, this disinterest is not an emotion but more the presence of infinite indifference > > > > as i await the response in the heart from Ramana Himself (the eternal back of all beings) > > > > i await the responses from fellow lovers of our Sat Guru > > > > i would say humbly yours, > > but humility doesn't seem to be present > > only indifference > > > > and please do not be confused, i could delete this right now and would for certain if Ramana did not allow this to rise for the sake of His purpose > > > > all responses are welcome > > i only ask for complete honesty and the purest compassion that can be mustered for such a subject > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 8, 2009 Report Share Posted July 8, 2009 Dear Rafael hope you did not misunderstand my recent email to you. Just wanted to llearn from you, Rafael, how you managed your obstacles which came on your way in all these years.!!!!! So please share this with us.... in Bhagavan michael bindel - rafaelstoneman Wednesday, July 08, 2009 8:34 PM Re: (unknown) I found one to be helpful:"One who is indiffernt to pain or pleasure can alone be happy."(The Essential Teachings of Ramana Maharshi; a visual journey.)Thank you for your prompt response Alan. , Alan Jacobs <alanadamsjacobs wrote:>> Dear Rafe,> > I do not know one off hand , but perhaps another member will. All love, Alan> > --- On Wed, 8/7/09, rafaelstoneman <rafaelstoneman wrote:> > > rafaelstoneman <rafaelstoneman> Re: (unknown)> > Wednesday, 8 July, 2009, 7:08 PM> > > > > > > > > i agree with the passing approach...> the investigation may be worthy > not a cause for concern, certainly not.> but perhaps a cause for finding a specific story about Ramana> or a specific statement that applies to this> > He did after all spend two years in caves of disinterest > > , Alan Jacobs <alanadamsjacobs@ ...> wrote:> >> > Dear Rafe,> > > > I think this is only a passing phase of the Gunas ( certain form of tamas), which comes occaisionally like a cloud passing before the Sun. It doesn't last very long in my opinion and should not be a cause of concern.> > > > Hope this is helpful? Others may have more to say.> > > > All love,> > > > Yours in Bhagavan,> > > > Alan> > > > --- On Wed, 8/7/09, rafaelstoneman <rafaelstoneman@ ...> wrote:> > > > > > rafaelstoneman <rafaelstoneman@ ...>> > (unknown)> > > > Wednesday, 8 July, 2009, 6:56 PM> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Ramana and fellow devotees...> > > > when the overwhelming sense of disinterst rises> > it rises with disinterest in everything> > > > disinterest in devotion> > disinterst in self inquiry> > > > can this be a vasana that is worthy to lay at the feet of the Sat Guru> > and can we here look into this with delicate clarity> > > > to be specific, this disinterest is not an emotion but more the presence of infinite indifference> > > > as i await the response in the heart from Ramana Himself (the eternal back of all beings)> > > > i await the responses from fellow lovers of our Sat Guru> > > > i would say humbly yours,> > but humility doesn't seem to be present> > only indifference> > > > and please do not be confused, i could delete this right now and would for certain if Ramana did not allow this to rise for the sake of His purpose> > > > all responses are welcome> > i only ask for complete honesty and the purest compassion that can be mustered for such a subject> >> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.375 / Virus Database: 270.13.8/2224 - Release 07/08/09 05:53:00 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 8, 2009 Report Share Posted July 8, 2009 Rafael as far as i understood it Sri Ramana Maharshi "just" wanted to be alone - away from the disturbing noise of the "world" And this is for me complete understandable Did you read the book by David Godman about Annamalai... it shows in a incredible way the relationship between Disciple and GURU and soooo much to learn for us in Bhagavan michael - rafaelstoneman Wednesday, July 08, 2009 8:08 PM Re: (unknown) i agree with the passing approach...the investigation may be worthy not a cause for concern, certainly not.but perhaps a cause for finding a specific story about Ramanaor a specific statement that applies to thisHe did after all spend two years in caves of disinterest , Alan Jacobs <alanadamsjacobs wrote:>> Dear Rafe,> > I think this is only a passing phase of the Gunas ( certain form of tamas), which comes occaisionally like a cloud passing before the Sun. It doesn't last very long in my opinion and should not be a cause of concern.> > Hope this is helpful? Others may have more to say.> > All love,> > Yours in Bhagavan,> > Alan> > --- On Wed, 8/7/09, rafaelstoneman <rafaelstoneman wrote:> > > rafaelstoneman <rafaelstoneman> (unknown)> > Wednesday, 8 July, 2009, 6:56 PM> > > > > > > > > Dear Ramana and fellow devotees...> > when the overwhelming sense of disinterst rises> it rises with disinterest in everything> > disinterest in devotion> disinterst in self inquiry> > can this be a vasana that is worthy to lay at the feet of the Sat Guru> and can we here look into this with delicate clarity> > to be specific, this disinterest is not an emotion but more the presence of infinite indifference> > as i await the response in the heart from Ramana Himself (the eternal back of all beings)> > i await the responses from fellow lovers of our Sat Guru> > i would say humbly yours,> but humility doesn't seem to be present> only indifference> > and please do not be confused, i could delete this right now and would for certain if Ramana did not allow this to rise for the sake of His purpose> > all responses are welcome> i only ask for complete honesty and the purest compassion that can be mustered for such a subject> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.375 / Virus Database: 270.13.8/2224 - Release 07/08/09 05:53:00 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 8, 2009 Report Share Posted July 8, 2009 Yes I have read this book. I like it very much. Though it may not seem possible, something else is being worked out that has to do with the eternal self being honest. The way I grow is through honesty, but I also don't like to bring trouble. Sometimes it is seems that it is difficult to look at certain things for certain people. Of course we all know that devotion and enquiry are the best ways to stay focused on Self... there is something else too that has been going on for me in my inner dialogue with Ramana, and it has to do with going deeper into honesty as the Self; it is an aide to fully understanding Ramana's teachings and integrating them into one's life. One can talk all they want about the ego and the process and realization, but ultimately from the standpoint of being the eternal self right now, beyond all definition and language, there isn't any process of becomming. The Eternal Self demonstrated this by taking up a form that we know as Ramana and sharing this openly. I will forever be in gratitude to the Eternal Self; also known as Ramana Maharshi. But there comes a time as well when Ramana Himself, the Eternal one in the heart (and i am speaking from experience) reveals that only the Eternal has ever been, will ever be, and is being. Impossible for the intellect to grasp, as the shadow can't grasp it's source. Thank you for reading, listening, sharing, etc. , " Michael Bindel " <michael.bindel wrote: > > Rafael > > as far as i understood it Sri Ramana Maharshi " just " wanted to be alone - away from the disturbing noise of the " world " > And this is for me complete understandable > Did you read the book by David Godman about Annamalai... > it shows in a incredible way the relationship between Disciple and GURU > and soooo much to learn for us > > > > > in Bhagavan > > michael > > > - > rafaelstoneman > > Wednesday, July 08, 2009 8:08 PM > Re: (unknown) > > > > > > i agree with the passing approach... > the investigation may be worthy > not a cause for concern, certainly not. > but perhaps a cause for finding a specific story about Ramana > or a specific statement that applies to this > > He did after all spend two years in caves of disinterest > > , Alan Jacobs <alanadamsjacobs@> wrote: > > > > Dear Rafe, > > > > I think this is only a passing phase of the Gunas ( certain form of tamas), which comes occaisionally like a cloud passing before the Sun. It doesn't last very long in my opinion and should not be a cause of concern. > > > > Hope this is helpful? Others may have more to say. > > > > All love, > > > > Yours in Bhagavan, > > > > Alan > > > > --- On Wed, 8/7/09, rafaelstoneman <rafaelstoneman@> wrote: > > > > > > rafaelstoneman <rafaelstoneman@> > > (unknown) > > > > Wednesday, 8 July, 2009, 6:56 PM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Ramana and fellow devotees... > > > > when the overwhelming sense of disinterst rises > > it rises with disinterest in everything > > > > disinterest in devotion > > disinterst in self inquiry > > > > can this be a vasana that is worthy to lay at the feet of the Sat Guru > > and can we here look into this with delicate clarity > > > > to be specific, this disinterest is not an emotion but more the presence of infinite indifference > > > > as i await the response in the heart from Ramana Himself (the eternal back of all beings) > > > > i await the responses from fellow lovers of our Sat Guru > > > > i would say humbly yours, > > but humility doesn't seem to be present > > only indifference > > > > and please do not be confused, i could delete this right now and would for certain if Ramana did not allow this to rise for the sake of His purpose > > > > all responses are welcome > > i only ask for complete honesty and the purest compassion that can be mustered for such a subject > > > > > > > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 8.5.375 / Virus Database: 270.13.8/2224 - Release 07/08/09 05:53:00 > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 9, 2009 Report Share Posted July 9, 2009 Dear Rafael reading your answer to my mail was and is a fountain of deep joy. After reflecting and continuing my daily work will answer to it. In the meantime a THANK YOU Rafael a n d to my dear "mentor" and friend Alan Jacob..... in Sri Ramana Maharshi michael - rafaelstoneman Thursday, July 09, 2009 12:03 AM Re: (unknown) Yes I have read this book. I like it very much.Though it may not seem possible, something else is being worked out that has to do with the eternal self being honest. The way I grow is through honesty, but I also don't like to bring trouble. Sometimes it is seems that it is difficult to look at certain things for certain people. Of course we all know that devotion and enquiry are the best ways to stay focused on Self... there is something else too that has been going on for me in my inner dialogue with Ramana, and it has to do with going deeper into honesty as the Self; it is an aide to fully understanding Ramana's teachings and integrating them into one's life.One can talk all they want about the ego and the process and realization, but ultimately from the standpoint of being the eternal self right now, beyond all definition and language, there isn't any process of becomming. The Eternal Self demonstrated this by taking up a form that we know as Ramana and sharing this openly. I will forever be in gratitude to the Eternal Self; also known as Ramana Maharshi.But there comes a time as well when Ramana Himself, the Eternal one in the heart (and i am speaking from experience) reveals that only the Eternal has ever been, will ever be, and is being. Impossible for the intellect to grasp, as the shadow can't grasp it's source.Thank you for reading, listening, sharing, etc. , "Michael Bindel" <michael.bindel wrote:>> Rafael> > as far as i understood it Sri Ramana Maharshi "just" wanted to be alone - away from the disturbing noise of the "world"> And this is for me complete understandable> Did you read the book by David Godman about Annamalai...> it shows in a incredible way the relationship between Disciple and GURU> and soooo much to learn for us> > > > > in Bhagavan> > michael> > > - > rafaelstoneman > > Wednesday, July 08, 2009 8:08 PM> Re: (unknown)> > > > > > i agree with the passing approach...> the investigation may be worthy > not a cause for concern, certainly not.> but perhaps a cause for finding a specific story about Ramana> or a specific statement that applies to this> > He did after all spend two years in caves of disinterest > > , Alan Jacobs <alanadamsjacobs@> wrote:> >> > Dear Rafe,> > > > I think this is only a passing phase of the Gunas ( certain form of tamas), which comes occaisionally like a cloud passing before the Sun. It doesn't last very long in my opinion and should not be a cause of concern.> > > > Hope this is helpful? Others may have more to say.> > > > All love,> > > > Yours in Bhagavan,> > > > Alan> > > > --- On Wed, 8/7/09, rafaelstoneman <rafaelstoneman@> wrote:> > > > > > rafaelstoneman <rafaelstoneman@>> > (unknown)> > > > Wednesday, 8 July, 2009, 6:56 PM> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Ramana and fellow devotees...> > > > when the overwhelming sense of disinterst rises> > it rises with disinterest in everything> > > > disinterest in devotion> > disinterst in self inquiry> > > > can this be a vasana that is worthy to lay at the feet of the Sat Guru> > and can we here look into this with delicate clarity> > > > to be specific, this disinterest is not an emotion but more the presence of infinite indifference> > > > as i await the response in the heart from Ramana Himself (the eternal back of all beings)> > > > i await the responses from fellow lovers of our Sat Guru> > > > i would say humbly yours,> > but humility doesn't seem to be present> > only indifference> > > > and please do not be confused, i could delete this right now and would for certain if Ramana did not allow this to rise for the sake of His purpose> > > > all responses are welcome> > i only ask for complete honesty and the purest compassion that can be mustered for such a subject> >> > > > > > > -------------------------> > > > > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 8.5.375 / Virus Database: 270.13.8/2224 - Release 07/08/09 05:53:00> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.375 / Virus Database: 270.13.8/2224 - Release 07/08/09 05:53:00 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 14, 2009 Report Share Posted July 14, 2009 Dear Rafael Shalom Namaste Peace be with you refering to your esteemed contributions and especially to THIS One let me answer like this strange but true michael experiences this in the same way like you describe am in steady contact with "my inner Self" "the SPARKLE OF GD" my Sadguru SRI RAMANA MAHARSHI all the same for michael this leads to unshakeable knowledge what is to do or not to do the answer you got via Sri Ramana is the same i got fullpoint P.S, What remains to be "done" is to accept and to follow HARUACH HASHEM the WIND OF GD all just words but who who experiences this TRUTH is in the KNOW thank you for sharing this incredible TRUTH and of course dear Rafael doubting ones "impression" is legitimate till the point where you are in the KNOW in Sri Ramana Maharshi - rafaelstoneman Tuesday, July 14, 2009 7:37 AM (unknown) I would like some feedback on this from all who would like to respond.We are all in agreement here that Ramana's life was the perfect demonstration. We have all practiced Self Enquiry and all feel devotion to Ramana, so by no means is this to instigate argument. I want to understand something very specific here.I know that Ramana Himself made reference to Laksmhi the cow and His mother as having attained realization, along with others.And we all approach Him as the realized one. No confusion here.What I am looking at is that Ramana saying someone is realized is relevant to the moment that He said it and who He was saying it to. How we take many of His teachings may seem to differ in each of us here.What I trust alone is when Ramana speaks directly to me. Even here the context is only relevant to the moment and the context of how I hear what He is saying; with filters or in complete clarity.What I am being told and I share this with all of you here not to be validated or confirmed in any way but simply because it is rising in what I would call truth of obeying Ramana's word to me.It has been brought to my attention by Ramana, that there is no way to call someone Realized (this He is making relevant to me in this moment for His own purpose). The reason He says He wants me to fully comprehend this is to let go of this self definition in terms of being realized. He says all is the realized Self, what else could be? This is what He is revealing in the heart right now... this is not regurgitation of His statements read over the years in study. He is urging me to let go completely of this idea, that there is a destination to arrive at known as realization. This may sound contrary to some of His statments and may be confirmed by other statements He has made. But that is also not the point.He has made it abundantly clear to me that only one in their own heart can confirm that they are the eternal self. Now, as Ramana is the eternal self in the heart, He can confirm from within. At this point it is no longer required to call the one confirming this truth by the name of Ramana, as it is the eternal with out the form any longer- do we really believe that when the eternal had the form of Ramana, that the form interfered in any way? No, I believe we agree on this matter, which is why we regard Ramana as the perfect demonstration of the Eternal with a human form. Yet, as this confirmation is made by ourself in the heart, we continue to refer to the confirmer as Ramana out of respect and loyalty to the one we love; just as Ramana continued to refer to Arunachala, and Papaji always had a picture of Ramana behind him. What I am getting at is that it can seem like tricky business when we interact and especially with all the non dual teachers out there comming out of the wood work, and the rising sense in ourselves to be teachers, if not in the traditional sense, at the least in our day to day encounters.I am expressing all of this with the intent to be completely honest and in turn refine the communication process on these matters.I know I have used a lot of words, and it may be a tendency of the mind to want to articulate how one experiences being oneself, limited to language, and I am more than happy to keep quiet and even go away from here if this is a distraction. And I fully accept the notion of you all saying that this is just the ramblings of one on their way to realization. But is this really how you all see the matter? That we are heading to a final realization? Because again, Ramana has told me to give up that notion of finality in order to fully uncover what has always been, and could never be called an acomplishment.Yours in Ramana and in Honesty,Rafael Stoneman Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.375 / Virus Database: 270.13.13/2236 - Release 07/13/09 17:57:00 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 14, 2009 Report Share Posted July 14, 2009 Dear Raef, I feel that the gist of your question rests in this paragraph. " What I am looking at is that Ramana saying someone is realized is relevant to the moment that He said it and who He was saying it to. How we take many of His teachings may seem to differ in each of us here " . I am in full agreement with this statement. Each in our own way are directed by his Grace to form our own synthesis of his Teachings to precisely suit our own needs; and eventually after determined persistence in the sadhana, to which we are best suited, reach Realisation of the Self. All love, In Him, Alan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 14, 2009 Report Share Posted July 14, 2009 Everyone of us are equal and travelling in the same boat and we all are one and the same. Just wanted to add ramana maharshi's opinions about What is right and What is wrong Q: If it is a question of doing something one considers wrong, and thereby saving someone else from a great wrong, should one do it or refrain? Bhagavan: What is right and wrong? There is no standard by which to judge something to be right another to be wrong. Opinions differ according to the nature of the individual and according to the surroundings. They are again ideas and nothing more. Do not worry about them. But get rid of thoughts. If you always remain in the right, then right will prevail in the world. When asked for further elucidation Sri Bhagavan then pointed out that to see wrong in another is one's own wrong. The discrimination between right and wrong is the origin of sin. One's own sin is reflected outside and the individual in ignorance superimposes it on another. The best course for one is to reach the state in which such discrimination does not arise. Do you see wrong or right in your sleep? Be asleep even in the wakeful state, abide as the Self and remain uncontaminated by what goes on around. Moreover, however much you might advise them, your hearers may not rectify themselves. Be in the right yourself and remain silent. Your silence will have more effect than your words or deeds. Source: The Teachings of Ramana Maharshi edited by Arthur Osborne Om namo Bhagavate Sri Ramanaya Prasanth JalasutramOn Tue, Jul 14, 2009 at 9:12 AM, Alan Jacobs <alanadamsjacobs wrote: Dear Raef, I feel that the gist of your question rests in this paragraph. " What I am looking at is that Ramana saying someone is realized is relevant to the moment that He said it and who He was saying it to. How we take many of His teachings may seem to differ in each of us here " . I am in full agreement with this statement. Each in our own way are directed by his Grace to form our own synthesis of his Teachings to precisely suit our own needs; and eventually after determined persistence in the sadhana, to which we are best suited, reach Realisation of the Self. All love, In Him, Alan -- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 14, 2009 Report Share Posted July 14, 2009 Dear Rafael , Exquisite ...your expressions , your feelings and most of all your STATE OF BEING ! I just want to comment very briefly ..Just replied this morning to Richards's mail regarding duality thus : " I for one have to content with the feeling of duality until the oneness becomes complete and permanent." Yes intellectually i have understood or rather I feel i have understood the real meaning of Advaita . But sustaining in that state of experience is altogether a different thing ..The glimpses are there no doubt ..but it appears that there is enough remnant karma to be worked out before the state becomes permanent. Ofcourse the source and destination are the same ..within one's own SPIRITUAL HEART ! And last but not the least ..we all have ONE to ONE realtionship with the ONLY ONE ! love ramesh --- On Tue, 7/14/09, rafaelstoneman <rafaelstoneman wrote: rafaelstoneman <rafaelstoneman (unknown) Date: Tuesday, July 14, 2009, 11:07 AM I would like some feedback on this from all who would like to respond.We are all in agreement here that Ramana's life was the perfect demonstration. We have all practiced Self Enquiry and all feel devotion to Ramana, so by no means is this to instigate argument. I want to understand something very specific here.I know that Ramana Himself made reference to Laksmhi the cow and His mother as having attained realization, along with others.And we all approach Him as the realized one. No confusion here.What I am looking at is that Ramana saying someone is realized is relevant to the moment that He said it and who He was saying it to. How we take many of His teachings may seem to differ in each of us here.What I trust alone is when Ramana speaks directly to me. Even here the context is only relevant to the moment and the context of how I hear what He is saying; with filters or in complete clarity.What I am being told and I share this with all of you here not to be validated or confirmed in any way but simply because it is rising in what I would call truth of obeying Ramana's word to me.It has been brought to my attention by Ramana, that there is no way to call someone Realized (this He is making relevant to me in this moment for His own purpose). The reason He says He wants me to fully comprehend this is to let go of this self definition in terms of being realized. He says all is the realized Self, what else could be? This is what He is revealing in the heart right now... this is not regurgitation of His statements read over the years in study. He is urging me to let go completely of this idea, that there is a destination to arrive at known as realization. This may sound contrary to some of His statments and may be confirmed by other statements He has made. But that is also not the point.He has made it abundantly clear to me that only one in their own heart can confirm that they are the eternal self. Now, as Ramana is the eternal self in the heart, He can confirm from within. At this point it is no longer required to call the one confirming this truth by the name of Ramana, as it is the eternal with out the form any longer- do we really believe that when the eternal had the form of Ramana, that the form interfered in any way? No, I believe we agree on this matter, which is why we regard Ramana as the perfect demonstration of the Eternal with a human form. Yet, as this confirmation is made by ourself in the heart, we continue to refer to the confirmer as Ramana out of respect and loyalty to the one we love; just as Ramana continued to refer to Arunachala, and Papaji always had a picture of Ramana behind him. What I am getting at is that it can seem like tricky business when we interact and especially with all the non dual teachers out there comming out of the wood work, and the rising sense in ourselves to be teachers, if not in the traditional sense, at the least in our day to day encounters.I am expressing all of this with the intent to be completely honest and in turn refine the communication process on these matters.I know I have used a lot of words, and it may be a tendency of the mind to want to articulate how one experiences being oneself, limited to language, and I am more than happy to keep quiet and even go away from here if this is a distraction. And I fully accept the notion of you all saying that this is just the ramblings of one on their way to realization. But is this really how you all see the matter? That we are heading to a final realization? Because again, Ramana has told me to give up that notion of finality in order to fully uncover what has always been, and could never be called an acomplishment.Yours in Ramana and in Honesty,Rafael Stoneman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 14, 2009 Report Share Posted July 14, 2009 Thank you for that Ramesh, especially we all have one to one relationship with the only one... what i would gently challenge is the idea of remnant karma... i do not approach things this way... so must wonder why you would... it is a story that was picked up somewhere in reading the holy texts and the words of Ramana... but are you absolutely certain that Ramana would describe it this way to you in your heart? If so, I stand corrected, if not, well sir... in all love and service Rafael , ramesh chivukula <ramesh_chiv wrote: > > Dear Rafael , > > Exquisite ...your expressions , your feelings and most of all your STATE OF BEING ! > > I just want to comment very briefly ..Just replied this morning to Richards's mail regarding duality thus : " I for one have to content with the feeling of duality until the oneness becomes complete and permanent. " > > Yes intellectually i have understood or rather I feel i have understood the real meaning of Advaita . But sustaining in that state of experience is altogether a different thing ..The glimpses are there no doubt ..but it appears that there is enough remnant karma to be worked out before the state becomes permanent. > > Ofcourse the source and destination are the same ..within one's own SPIRITUAL HEART ! > > And last but not the least ..we all have ONE to ONE realtionship with the ONLY ONE ! > > love > > ramesh > > > --- On Tue, 7/14/09, rafaelstoneman <rafaelstoneman wrote: > > > rafaelstoneman <rafaelstoneman > (unknown) > > Tuesday, July 14, 2009, 11:07 AM > > I would like some feedback on this from all who would like to respond. > > We are all in agreement here that Ramana's life was the perfect demonstration. We have all practiced Self Enquiry and all feel devotion to Ramana, so by no means is this to instigate argument. I want to understand something very specific here. > > I know that Ramana Himself made reference to Laksmhi the cow and His mother as having attained realization, along with others. > > And we all approach Him as the realized one. No confusion here. > > What I am looking at is that Ramana saying someone is realized is relevant to the moment that He said it and who He was saying it to. How we take many of His teachings may seem to differ in each of us here. > > What I trust alone is when Ramana speaks directly to me. Even here the context is only relevant to the moment and the context of how I hear what He is saying; with filters or in complete clarity. > > What I am being told and I share this with all of you here not to be validated or confirmed in any way but simply because it is rising in what I would call truth of obeying Ramana's word to me. > > It has been brought to my attention by Ramana, that there is no way to call someone Realized (this He is making relevant to me in this moment for His own purpose). The reason He says He wants me to fully comprehend this is to let go of this self definition in terms of being realized. He says all is the realized Self, what else could be? This is what He is revealing in the heart right now... this is not regurgitation of His statements read over the years in study. He is urging me to let go completely of this idea, that there is a destination to arrive at known as realization. This may sound contrary to some of His statments and may be confirmed by other statements He has made. But that is also not the point. > > He has made it abundantly clear to me that only one in their own heart can confirm that they are the eternal self. Now, as Ramana is the eternal self in the heart, He can confirm from within. At this point it is no longer required to call the one confirming this truth by the name of Ramana, as it is the eternal with out the form any longer- do we really believe that when the eternal had the form of Ramana, that the form interfered in any way? No, I believe we agree on this matter, which is why we regard Ramana as the perfect demonstration of the Eternal with a human form. > > Yet, as this confirmation is made by ourself in the heart, we continue to refer to the confirmer as Ramana out of respect and loyalty to the one we love; just as Ramana continued to refer to Arunachala, and Papaji always had a picture of Ramana behind him. > > What I am getting at is that it can seem like tricky business when we interact and especially with all the non dual teachers out there comming out of the wood work, and the rising sense in ourselves to be teachers, if not in the traditional sense, at the least in our day to day encounters. > > I am expressing all of this with the intent to be completely honest and in turn refine the communication process on these matters. > > I know I have used a lot of words, and it may be a tendency of the mind to want to articulate how one experiences being oneself, limited to language, and I am more than happy to keep quiet and even go away from here if this is a distraction. And I fully accept the notion of you all saying that this is just the ramblings of one on their way to realization. But is this really how you all see the matter? That we are heading to a final realization? Because again, Ramana has told me to give up that notion of finality in order to fully uncover what has always been, and could never be called an acomplishment. > > Yours in Ramana and in Honesty, > > Rafael Stoneman > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 14, 2009 Report Share Posted July 14, 2009 Thank you Alan, So I will take that as a yes... you do believe in a final destination of realization. I don't. I only believe in staying in honest investigation... if such a realization exists to reach, it certainly isn't dependent on Rafe's belief. I fully respect and appreciate your view, your approach, and mostly your honest devotion. In love, Rafael Rafael , Alan Jacobs <alanadamsjacobs wrote: > > > Dear Raef, > > I feel that the gist of your question rests in this paragraph. > > " What I am looking at is that Ramana saying someone is realized is relevant to the moment that He said it and who He was saying it to. How we take many of His teachings may seem to differ in each of us here " . > > I am in full agreement with this statement. > > Each in our own way are directed by his Grace to form our own synthesis of his Teachings to precisely suit our own needs; and eventually after determined persistence in the sadhana, to which we are best suited, reach Realisation of the Self. > > All love, > > In Him, > > Alan > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 14, 2009 Report Share Posted July 14, 2009 This is well appreciated. It is wise to cling to the Master's words. What more can I say? , Prasanth Jalasutram <jvrsprasanth wrote: > > Everyone of us are equal and travelling in the same boat and we all are one > and the same. > > Just wanted to add ramana maharshi's opinions about What is right and What > is wrong<http://prashantaboutindia.blogspot.com/2009/06/ramana-maharshi-about-what-\ is-right-and.html> > Q: If it is a question of doing something one considers wrong, and thereby > saving someone else from a great wrong, should one do it or refrain? > > Bhagavan: What is right and wrong? There is no standard by which to judge > something to be right another to be wrong. Opinions differ according to the > nature of the individual and according to the surroundings. They are again > ideas and nothing more. Do not worry about them. But get rid of thoughts. If > you always remain in the right, then right will prevail in the world. > > When asked for further elucidation Sri Bhagavan then pointed out that to see > wrong in another is one's own wrong. The discrimination between right and > wrong is the origin of sin. One's own sin is reflected outside and the > individual in ignorance superimposes it on another. The best course for one > is to reach the state in which such discrimination does not arise. Do you > see wrong or right in your sleep? Be asleep even in the wakeful state, abide > as the Self and remain uncontaminated by what goes on around. Moreover, > however much you might advise them, your hearers may not rectify themselves. > Be in the right yourself and remain silent. Your silence will have more > effect than your words or deeds. > > Source: The Teachings of Ramana Maharshi edited by Arthur Osborne > Om namo Bhagavate Sri Ramanaya > Prasanth Jalasutram > > On Tue, Jul 14, 2009 at 9:12 AM, Alan Jacobs <alanadamsjacobswrote: > > > > > > > > > Dear Raef, > > > > I feel that the gist of your question rests in this paragraph. > > > > " What I am looking at is that Ramana saying someone is realized is relevant > > to the moment that He said it and who He was saying it to. How we take many > > of His teachings may seem to differ in each of us here " . > > > > I am in full agreement with this statement. > > > > Each in our own way are directed by his Grace to form our own synthesis of > > his Teachings to precisely suit our own needs; and eventually after > > determined persistence in the sadhana, to which we are best suited, reach > > Realisation of the Self. > > > > All love, > > > > In Him, > > > > Alan > > > > > > > > > > -- > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 14, 2009 Report Share Posted July 14, 2009 Thank you Michael... I appreciate greatly the way in which you responded, particularly the place from which you are speaking, it is abundantly clear that you know yourself thoroughly. Shalom, Rafael , " Michael Bindel " <michael.bindel wrote: > > Dear Rafael > Shalom Namaste > Peace be with you > > refering to your esteemed contributions and especially to THIS One let me answer like this > > strange but true > > michael experiences this in the same way like you describe > > am in steady contact with " my inner Self " " the SPARKLE OF GD " my Sadguru SRI RAMANA MAHARSHI > all the same for michael > > this leads to unshakeable knowledge what is to do or not to do > > the answer you got via Sri Ramana is the same i got > > fullpoint > > > P.S, What remains to be " done " is to accept and to follow HARUACH HASHEM the WIND OF GD > > all just words but who who experiences this TRUTH is in the KNOW > > thank you for sharing this incredible TRUTH > > > and of course dear Rafael > doubting ones " impression " is legitimate till the point where you are in the KNOW > > > in Sri Ramana Maharshi - > rafaelstoneman > > Tuesday, July 14, 2009 7:37 AM > (unknown) > > > > > > I would like some feedback on this from all who would like to respond. > > We are all in agreement here that Ramana's life was the perfect demonstration. We have all practiced Self Enquiry and all feel devotion to Ramana, so by no means is this to instigate argument. I want to understand something very specific here. > > I know that Ramana Himself made reference to Laksmhi the cow and His mother as having attained realization, along with others. > > And we all approach Him as the realized one. No confusion here. > > What I am looking at is that Ramana saying someone is realized is relevant to the moment that He said it and who He was saying it to. How we take many of His teachings may seem to differ in each of us here. > > What I trust alone is when Ramana speaks directly to me. Even here the context is only relevant to the moment and the context of how I hear what He is saying; with filters or in complete clarity. > > What I am being told and I share this with all of you here not to be validated or confirmed in any way but simply because it is rising in what I would call truth of obeying Ramana's word to me. > > It has been brought to my attention by Ramana, that there is no way to call someone Realized (this He is making relevant to me in this moment for His own purpose). The reason He says He wants me to fully comprehend this is to let go of this self definition in terms of being realized. He says all is the realized Self, what else could be? This is what He is revealing in the heart right now... this is not regurgitation of His statements read over the years in study. He is urging me to let go completely of this idea, that there is a destination to arrive at known as realization. This may sound contrary to some of His statments and may be confirmed by other statements He has made. But that is also not the point. > > He has made it abundantly clear to me that only one in their own heart can confirm that they are the eternal self. Now, as Ramana is the eternal self in the heart, He can confirm from within. At this point it is no longer required to call the one confirming this truth by the name of Ramana, as it is the eternal with out the form any longer- do we really believe that when the eternal had the form of Ramana, that the form interfered in any way? No, I believe we agree on this matter, which is why we regard Ramana as the perfect demonstration of the Eternal with a human form. > > Yet, as this confirmation is made by ourself in the heart, we continue to refer to the confirmer as Ramana out of respect and loyalty to the one we love; just as Ramana continued to refer to Arunachala, and Papaji always had a picture of Ramana behind him. > > What I am getting at is that it can seem like tricky business when we interact and especially with all the non dual teachers out there comming out of the wood work, and the rising sense in ourselves to be teachers, if not in the traditional sense, at the least in our day to day encounters. > > I am expressing all of this with the intent to be completely honest and in turn refine the communication process on these matters. > > I know I have used a lot of words, and it may be a tendency of the mind to want to articulate how one experiences being oneself, limited to language, and I am more than happy to keep quiet and even go away from here if this is a distraction. And I fully accept the notion of you all saying that this is just the ramblings of one on their way to realization. But is this really how you all see the matter? That we are heading to a final realization? Because again, Ramana has told me to give up that notion of finality in order to fully uncover what has always been, and could never be called an acomplishment. > > Yours in Ramana and in Honesty, > > Rafael Stoneman > > > > > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 8.5.375 / Virus Database: 270.13.13/2236 - Release 07/13/09 17:57:00 > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 14, 2009 Report Share Posted July 14, 2009 Dear Rafe , Ofcourse you are entitled to your view point and I would not challenge that gently or otherwise. With all love ramesh --- On Tue, 7/14/09, rafaelstoneman <rafaelstoneman wrote: rafaelstoneman <rafaelstonemanRe: (unknown) Date: Tuesday, July 14, 2009, 5:12 PM Thank you for that Ramesh, especially we all have one to one relationship with the only one... what i would gently challenge is the idea of remnant karma... i do not approach things this way... so must wonder why you would... it is a story that was picked up somewhere in reading the holy texts and the words of Ramana... but are you absolutely certain that Ramana would describe it this way to you in your heart? If so, I stand corrected, if not, well sir... in all love and serviceRafael, ramesh chivukula <ramesh_chiv@ ...> wrote:>> Dear Rafael ,> > Exquisite ...your expressions , your feelings and most of all your STATE OF BEING !> > I just want to comment very briefly ..Just replied this morning to Richards's mail regarding duality thus : " I for one have to content with the feeling of duality until the oneness becomes complete and permanent." > > Yes intellectually i have understood or rather I feel i have understood the real meaning of Advaita . But sustaining in that state of experience is altogether a different thing ..The glimpses are there no doubt ..but it appears that there is enough remnant karma to be worked out before the state becomes permanent.> > Ofcourse the source and destination are the same ..within one's own SPIRITUAL HEART !> > And last but not the least ..we all have ONE to ONE realtionship with the ONLY ONE !> > love> > ramesh> > > --- On Tue, 7/14/09, rafaelstoneman <rafaelstoneman@ ...> wrote:> > > rafaelstoneman <rafaelstoneman@ ...>> (unknown)> > Tuesday, July 14, 2009, 11:07 AM> > > > > > > > > I would like some feedback on this from all who would like to respond.> > We are all in agreement here that Ramana's life was the perfect demonstration. We have all practiced Self Enquiry and all feel devotion to Ramana, so by no means is this to instigate argument. I want to understand something very specific here.> > I know that Ramana Himself made reference to Laksmhi the cow and His mother as having attained realization, along with others.> > And we all approach Him as the realized one. No confusion here.> > What I am looking at is that Ramana saying someone is realized is relevant to the moment that He said it and who He was saying it to. How we take many of His teachings may seem to differ in each of us here.> > What I trust alone is when Ramana speaks directly to me. Even here the context is only relevant to the moment and the context of how I hear what He is saying; with filters or in complete clarity.> > What I am being told and I share this with all of you here not to be validated or confirmed in any way but simply because it is rising in what I would call truth of obeying Ramana's word to me.> > It has been brought to my attention by Ramana, that there is no way to call someone Realized (this He is making relevant to me in this moment for His own purpose). The reason He says He wants me to fully comprehend this is to let go of this self definition in terms of being realized. He says all is the realized Self, what else could be? This is what He is revealing in the heart right now... this is not regurgitation of His statements read over the years in study. He is urging me to let go completely of this idea, that there is a destination to arrive at known as realization. This may sound contrary to some of His statments and may be confirmed by other statements He has made. But that is also not the point.> > He has made it abundantly clear to me that only one in their own heart can confirm that they are the eternal self. Now, as Ramana is the eternal self in the heart, He can confirm from within. At this point it is no longer required to call the one confirming this truth by the name of Ramana, as it is the eternal with out the form any longer- do we really believe that when the eternal had the form of Ramana, that the form interfered in any way? No, I believe we agree on this matter, which is why we regard Ramana as the perfect demonstration of the Eternal with a human form. > > Yet, as this confirmation is made by ourself in the heart, we continue to refer to the confirmer as Ramana out of respect and loyalty to the one we love; just as Ramana continued to refer to Arunachala, and Papaji always had a picture of Ramana behind him. > > What I am getting at is that it can seem like tricky business when we interact and especially with all the non dual teachers out there comming out of the wood work, and the rising sense in ourselves to be teachers, if not in the traditional sense, at the least in our day to day encounters.> > I am expressing all of this with the intent to be completely honest and in turn refine the communication process on these matters.> > I know I have used a lot of words, and it may be a tendency of the mind to want to articulate how one experiences being oneself, limited to language, and I am more than happy to keep quiet and even go away from here if this is a distraction. And I fully accept the notion of you all saying that this is just the ramblings of one on their way to realization. But is this really how you all see the matter? That we are heading to a final realization? Because again, Ramana has told me to give up that notion of finality in order to fully uncover what has always been, and could never be called an acomplishment.> > Yours in Ramana and in Honesty,> > Rafael Stoneman> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 14, 2009 Report Share Posted July 14, 2009 Thank you Ramesh you are a true gentleman... i am a scoundral... but I love when others challange me when it is true to do so. Rafael , ramesh chivukula <ramesh_chiv wrote: > > Dear Rafe , > > Ofcourse you are entitled to your view point and I would not challenge that gently or otherwise. > > With all love > > ramesh > > > --- On Tue, 7/14/09, rafaelstoneman <rafaelstoneman wrote: > > > rafaelstoneman <rafaelstoneman > Re: (unknown) > > Tuesday, July 14, 2009, 5:12 PM > > Thank you for that Ramesh, especially we all have one to one relationship with the only one... > > what i would gently challenge is the idea of remnant karma... i do not approach things this way... so must wonder why you would... it is a story that was picked up somewhere in reading the holy texts and the words of Ramana... but are you absolutely certain that Ramana would describe it this way to you in your heart? If so, I stand corrected, if not, well sir... in all love and service > > Rafael > > , ramesh chivukula <ramesh_chiv@ ...> wrote: > > > > Dear Rafael , > > > > Exquisite ...your expressions , your feelings and most of all your STATE OF BEING ! > > > > I just want to comment very briefly ..Just replied this morning to Richards's mail regarding duality thus : " I for one have to content with the feeling of duality until the oneness becomes complete and permanent. " > > > > Yes intellectually i have understood or rather I feel i have understood the real meaning of Advaita . But sustaining in that state of experience is altogether a different thing ..The glimpses are there no doubt ..but it appears that there is enough remnant karma to be worked out before the state becomes permanent. > > > > Ofcourse the source and destination are the same ..within one's own SPIRITUAL HEART ! > > > > And last but not the least ..we all have ONE to ONE realtionship with the ONLY ONE ! > > > > love > > > > ramesh > > > > > > --- On Tue, 7/14/09, rafaelstoneman <rafaelstoneman@ ...> wrote: > > > > > > rafaelstoneman <rafaelstoneman@ ...> > > (unknown) > > > > Tuesday, July 14, 2009, 11:07 AM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I would like some feedback on this from all who would like to respond. > > > > We are all in agreement here that Ramana's life was the perfect demonstration. We have all practiced Self Enquiry and all feel devotion to Ramana, so by no means is this to instigate argument. I want to understand something very specific here. > > > > I know that Ramana Himself made reference to Laksmhi the cow and His mother as having attained realization, along with others. > > > > And we all approach Him as the realized one. No confusion here. > > > > What I am looking at is that Ramana saying someone is realized is relevant to the moment that He said it and who He was saying it to. How we take many of His teachings may seem to differ in each of us here. > > > > What I trust alone is when Ramana speaks directly to me. Even here the context is only relevant to the moment and the context of how I hear what He is saying; with filters or in complete clarity. > > > > What I am being told and I share this with all of you here not to be validated or confirmed in any way but simply because it is rising in what I would call truth of obeying Ramana's word to me. > > > > It has been brought to my attention by Ramana, that there is no way to call someone Realized (this He is making relevant to me in this moment for His own purpose). The reason He says He wants me to fully comprehend this is to let go of this self definition in terms of being realized. He says all is the realized Self, what else could be? This is what He is revealing in the heart right now... this is not regurgitation of His statements read over the years in study. He is urging me to let go completely of this idea, that there is a destination to arrive at known as realization. This may sound contrary to some of His statments and may be confirmed by other statements He has made. But that is also not the point. > > > > He has made it abundantly clear to me that only one in their own heart can confirm that they are the eternal self. Now, as Ramana is the eternal self in the heart, He can confirm from within. At this point it is no longer required to call the one confirming this truth by the name of Ramana, as it is the eternal with out the form any longer- do we really believe that when the eternal had the form of Ramana, that the form interfered in any way? No, I believe we agree on this matter, which is why we regard Ramana as the perfect demonstration of the Eternal with a human form. > > > > Yet, as this confirmation is made by ourself in the heart, we continue to refer to the confirmer as Ramana out of respect and loyalty to the one we love; just as Ramana continued to refer to Arunachala, and Papaji always had a picture of Ramana behind him. > > > > What I am getting at is that it can seem like tricky business when we interact and especially with all the non dual teachers out there comming out of the wood work, and the rising sense in ourselves to be teachers, if not in the traditional sense, at the least in our day to day encounters. > > > > I am expressing all of this with the intent to be completely honest and in turn refine the communication process on these matters. > > > > I know I have used a lot of words, and it may be a tendency of the mind to want to articulate how one experiences being oneself, limited to language, and I am more than happy to keep quiet and even go away from here if this is a distraction. And I fully accept the notion of you all saying that this is just the ramblings of one on their way to realization. But is this really how you all see the matter? That we are heading to a final realization? Because again, Ramana has told me to give up that notion of finality in order to fully uncover what has always been, and could never be called an acomplishment. > > > > Yours in Ramana and in Honesty, > > > > Rafael Stoneman > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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