The illusion of time.

[foolnumberone]

ALL GLORIES TO SRILA PRABHUPADA

 

new to this forum,please excuse me if this question is in the wrong area.

 

Prabhupada says that at death the spirit soul enters into another material body,but Prabhupada also speaks of ghosts,so does this mean we can inhabit two places at once? eg be in a gross material body while also being in a subtle ghost body?

 

I gather prabhupada meant immediately at death one is tranferred into the womb of your next mother.

[Guest guest]

 

ALL GLORIES TO SRILA PRABHUPADA

 

new to this forum,please excuse me if this question is in the wrong area.

 

Prabhupada says that at death the spirit soul enters into another material body,but Prabhupada also speaks of ghosts,so does this mean we can inhabit two places at once? eg be in a gross material body while also being in a subtle ghost body?

 

I gather prabhupada meant immediately at death one is tranferred into the womb of your next mother.

 

Based on your material energy, one of the three can happen. But not everything simulteniously.

[foolnumberone]

that would imply that time isn't illusionary,if time was illusionary then we should be able to inhabit two ore more bodies at once.

 

also when we sleep and our astral body travels im sure the soul can inhabit the gross body and the subtle body at the same time.

 

 

 

(would also have to couple the seeming contradictions here with the illusion of space or distance/+time between the two material bodies)

[Kulapavana]

 

I gather prabhupada meant immediately at death one is tranferred into the womb of your next mother.

 

there are quite a few possible scenarios here. here are the main ones:

 

1. immediate transfer on the earthly plane of existence (where "immediate" does not mean "instantenous" only that there are no conscious intermediate stages between death and being placed in the womb) altough there are some logistics involved that may take only a short amount of time.

 

2. waiting for an appropriate body in the state of unconsciousness (can be quite long)

 

3. post-life destinations (non-earthly bodies/levels of existence) as based on karma - that may include ghostly bodies (there are several categories of ghosts), hellish or heavenly destinations.

 

4. lingering of disembodied entity in it's subtle body here on earth due to some attachment for its previous life - no karma is collected or expended.

 

 

as to time. time is a real element (kalosmi - I am the eternal time, Krsna says) but our perception of it is imperfect, relative and illusory.

[foolnumberone]

considering we are the spirit soul also the various types of bodies will also be illusionary,or temporary.

 

all i am trying to get my head round here is,I can imagine myself being pure soul ,but I think then from a material understanding time flows and the different bodies are within that flow at different points.

 

one speculative point I have come to is that from the pure souls perspective,or rather an unlayered soul the different bodies would not be in different time zones or places but be on a different frequency or pulse rates

but that doesnt seem to make full sense to my material brain,thats unless time is experienced by pure soul then the flowing concept would be rational.

[Kulapavana]

 

considering we are the spirit soul also the various types of bodies will also be illusionary,or temporary...

 

try not to mix the concepts of illusion and temporarity. all illusions are termporary, but not all temporary things are an illusion. material world is temporary, but real, yet the way we see it is illusory and incomplete.

 

you are never a ghost and an embodied entity at the same time. for a pure soul unencumbered by a material body there is only present. time as we know it is only limited to the material world. it is the sequence of events needed for the universe to function properly, like the code sequence in a computer program. there is no such need in the spiritual sky.

[foolnumberone]

but I am here at my computer and can have different programs running at the same time,in fact it could be possible to operate two computers at once.

[Kulapavana]

 

but I am here at my computer and can have different programs running at the same time,in fact it could be possible to operate two computers at once.

 

ordinary living entity is quite insignificant in terms of it's power. you may imagine having two bodies at the same time but it is just an illusion. living entity is indivisible, so it can never become two. operating two different bodies requires two living entities powering them. that is pretty much how the Vedas present it.

 

Krsna operates millions of universes simultaneously, and he even operates our body to a large extent. You are not even really operating one computer independently of Him - you are merely a guest user with limited priviledges

[foolnumberone]

but the material bodies are just lower forms of energy.

 

and as i mentioned earlier the body can split during sleep so two bodies are existing at the same time.

[Kulapavana]

 

and as i mentioned earlier the body can split during sleep so two bodies are existing at the same time.

 

that split is not complete and these two bodies are actually one.

[foolnumberone]

forgive me if i am living upto my name.

 

but if I follow on from that reasoning ,that all the bodies I have inhabited past,present and future are connected by being part of the Lords energy and being inhabited by my soul

 

another type of comparitive example could also be that if I had a Car made from subtle material energy I could operate that one at the same time as a physical car using my gross material body,i would have to be adept at astral projection and know how to drive of course.

[Kulapavana]

 

but if I follow on from that reasoning ,that all the bodies I have inhabited past,present and future are connected by being part of the Lords energy and being inhabited by my soul

 

that connection between physical bodies is not real as these bodies do not exist at the same time. you make that connection in your mind alone. I was talking about a connection between your present physical body and you in your astral (subtle) body. that connection is provided through links of subtle energy and certain airs of life.

 

 

 

another type of comparitive example could also be that if I had a Car made from subtle material energy I could operate that one at the same time as a physical car using my gross material body,i would have to be adept at astral projection and know how to drive of course.

 

you do not quite understand what the subtle material energy is. there are no subtle material cars. the subtle energy relates to the coverings of the soul.

[foolnumberone]

 

that connection between physical bodies is not real as these bodies do not exist at the same time. you make that connection in your mind alone.

 

that was my original query ,weather they existed in a time line,or that that was the illusion,and to the spirit soul they could appear to be existing as different vibrations for example

 

 

I was talking about a connection between your present physical body and you in your astral (subtle) body. that connection is provided through links of subtle energy and certain airs of life.

 

yes I understood that

 

 

you do not quite understand what the subtle material energy is. there are no subtle material cars. the subtle energy relates to the coverings of the soul.

 

I thought the subtle energy meant material energy ,but other energy besides the gross material energy,and I was going off peoples reported sightings of ghosts as they always seemed to be clothed,so if they can materialise clothing then cars could also be a possibility,altho a car would seem unnecassery to them.it was just a way of giving an example.

 

do you have any links/quotes from Vedas/Prabhupada on this?

[Kulapavana]

 

I thought the subtle energy meant material energy ,but other energy besides the gross material energy,and I was going off peoples reported sightings of ghosts as they always seemed to be clothed,so if they can materialise clothing then cars could also be a possibility,altho a car would seem unnecassery to them.it was just a way of giving an example.

 

do you have any links/quotes from Vedas/Prabhupada on this?

 

what you see as "clothes" on a ghost is merely their own projected consciousness, or how they see themselves - it is not a separate object. that type of ghostly projection is actually very rare, and ghosts are rarely "seen" by people.

 

as to quotes, Prabhupada spoke many times about the subtle body. just do a search in the Vedabase.

[foolnumberone]

 

what you see as "clothes" on a ghost is merely their own projected consciousness, or how they see themselves - it is not a separate object. that type of ghostly projection is actually very rare, and ghosts are rarely "seen" by people.

 

the subtle body and the clothes would be considered seperate from the soul,also some people are able to see ghosts regularly such as some mediums .(I have seen the ghost of a pet dog we had,many times)

 

 

regarding your PM about being wary of channeling,yes i understand the dangers and only trust prabhupada,this was knowledge I came across years ago(Seth) and he seemed to be in a position (disembodied) to be able to have a bit more authority than myself.

[Guest guest]

A completely liberated soul can be in many places or incarnations at once, just like Krsna. Such is the power of the spiritual being when freed from the material conception. I heard Srila Prabhupada speak this, but I don't remember the reference.

[foolnumberone]

 

A completely liberated soul can be in many places or incarnations at once, just like Krsna. Such is the power of the spiritual being when freed from the material conception. I heard Srila Prabhupada speak this, but I don't remember the reference.

 

If that is correct ,then it leads me to a further speculation,that wouldnt a truly liberated soul be positioned in the spiritual sky? and yet still surrounded by the bars of his/her material prison

 

or maybe there is an actual break off point where the soul can discard all these bodies

[Kulapavana]

 

A completely liberated soul can be in many places or incarnations at once, just like Krsna. Such is the power of the spiritual being when freed from the material conception. I heard Srila Prabhupada speak this, but I don't remember the reference.

 

perhaps you are referring to perfect yogis and the story of Kardama Muni, who expanded himself in nine forms to please his wife (SB. 3.23.44). Such examples are very, very rare, and actually can be understood in several ways.

 

these are the usual yogic perfections (Asta siddhis):

 

Anima, Mahima, Laghima, Garima, Prapti, Prakamya, Ishitva and Vashitva. ‘Anima’ gives one an ability to make ones body incredibly small, even smaller than an atom. ‘Mahima’ gives one the ability to make ones physical body as big as one wishes. With Laghima, a yogi can make his physical body as light and with Garima as heavy as one wishes. With Prapti, one can acquire any material items in the world. Prakamya gives power to satisfy any wish one has in his mind while with Ishitva he can rule over any one. With Vashitva a yogi can control anyone’s mind and make him work according to his wish.