Guest guest Posted October 13, 2006 Report Share Posted October 13, 2006 I'm looking for a reference in the Vichara Sangraham where Bhagavan has distinguished between "firm" Self-realization and someone who has only had a glimpse of the Self but still has to extinguish his Vasanas. The conversation recorded below in the "Talks" seems to indicate such a reference, but I'm unable to locate it. If someone knows of which verse in the Vichara Sangraham is being referred to in "Talks", I would greatly appreciate it. Thanks in advance! --- 21st October, 1938 Talk 562. There is a statement in the book Vichara Sangraha that though a person realises the Self once, he cannot, for that simple reason alone, become a mukta. He continues to remain a victim of vasanas (latencies). Sri Bhagavan was asked whether the realisation referred to was the same as the jnani’s, and if so why there should be a difference in their effects. M.: The experience is the same. Every person experiences the Self consciously or unconsciously. The ajnani’s experience is clouded by his latencies whereas the jnani’s is not so. The jnani’s experience of the Self is therefore distinct and permanent. A practiser may by long practice gain a glimpse of the Reality. This experience may be vivid for the time being. And yet he will be distracted by the old vasanas and so his experience will not avail him. Such a man must continue his manana and nididhyasana so that all the obstacles may be destroyed. He will then be able to remain permanently in the Real State. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 14, 2006 Report Share Posted October 14, 2006 Dear Jayanarayanan-ji I cannot find it either, in "Self Inquiry". There is a paragraph near the end which is only vaguely similar, but this is really about the four stages of Jnana, which Bhagavan points out is only an appearance to the ajnani. Peter ________________________________ RamanaMaharshi [RamanaMaharshi] On Behalf Of S Jayanarayanan 13 October 2006 18:57 RamanaMaharshi Cc: virupaksha [RamanaMaharshi] Mukti and Jnana: Vichara Sangraham Reference I'm looking for a reference in the Vichara Sangraham where Bhagavan has distinguished between "firm" Self-realization and someone who has only had a glimpse of the Self but still has to extinguish his Vasanas. The conversation recorded below in the "Talks" seems to indicate such a reference, but I'm unable to locate it. If someone knows of which verse in the Vichara Sangraham is being referred to in "Talks", I would greatly appreciate it. Thanks in advance! <snip> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 14, 2006 Report Share Posted October 14, 2006 Dear Friends, Bhagavan indicated this a number of times in different ways in various conversations and was careful to distinguish Kevala Nirvikalpa Samadhi from Sahaj Samadhi. I will pass this on to Advaitin and HS as well due to the recent discussions there on Samadhi. Here is the great devotee of Bhagavan, Kunju Swami describing his experience from the May-June 1993 Maharshi Newsletters. "Once I asked Sri Bhagavan why I lost the experience I had gained earlier in his presence when I went back home. He said that the answer to the question is given in eleven verses of Kaivalyam. He picked up the book and read them out and then explained to me at great length the purport of these verses. They relate to the doubt raised by the disciple about the need to continue spiritual practices even after one has had the supreme experience. The disciple wonders whether the spiritual experience once gained could be lost. The Guru says that it would be until he took care to practice sravana, manana, and nididhyasana, that is, 'hearing' from the Guru the Truth, 'reflecting' over it and 'assimilating' it. The experience would occur in the presence of the Guru, but it would not last. Doubts would arise again and again and in order to clear them the disciple should continue to study, think and practice. This should be done until the distinction of knower, the object of knowledge and the act of knowing no longer arise. I decided to stay always by Bhagavan's side and to practice sravana, manana and nididhyasana. I can never forget the wonderful experience of being drawn to Tiruvannamalai by Sri Bhagavan. " Love to all Harsha S Jayanarayanan wrote: > > I'm looking for a reference in the Vichara Sangraham where Bhagavan > has distinguished between "firm" Self-realization and someone who has > only had a glimpse of the Self but still has to extinguish his > Vasanas. The conversation recorded below in the "Talks" seems to > indicate such a reference, but I'm unable to locate it. If someone > knows of which verse in the Vichara Sangraham is being referred to in > "Talks", I would greatly appreciate it. > > Thanks in advance! > > --- > 21st October, 1938 > Talk 562. > There is a statement in the book Vichara Sangraha that though a > person realises the Self once, he cannot, for that simple reason > alone, become a mukta. He continues to remain a victim of vasanas > (latencies). Sri Bhagavan was asked whether the realisation referred > to was the same as the jnani's, and if so why there should be a > difference in their effects. > > M.: The experience is the same. Every person experiences the Self > consciously or unconsciously. The ajnani's experience is clouded by > his latencies whereas the jnani's is not so. The jnani's experience > of the Self is therefore distinct and permanent. > A practiser may by long practice gain a glimpse of the Reality. This > experience may be vivid for the time being. And yet he will be > distracted by the old vasanas and so his experience will not avail > him. Such a man must continue his manana and nididhyasana so that all > the obstacles may be destroyed. He will then be able to remain > permanently in the Real State. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 15, 2006 Report Share Posted October 15, 2006 Dear S Jayanarayanan, This has been a question for seekers of non-dual Self-knowledge from time immerorial. I have been reading Sankara's Vivekacudmani for the last few months. In verse 268 he introduces this subject: "Even after the Atman is known, these impressions, etc., I am the doer, I am the enjoyer, which are the cause of samsara are very strong. This has to be removed with effort by living in a state of turning the eyes inward." ----------------- The following verses instruct to eliminate false identification with 'I' and 'mine', eliminating the three kinds of vasanas, eliminating that which seems to obscure the Atman, the Self. By verse 277, Sankara says "When all vasanas are completely extinguished, the experience of the Atman (Brahman)is free from all obstacles." Vivekacudmani was one of the first books read by Shi Ramana. What Sanakra teaches is the same as taught by my teacher, Nome - all vasnasa must be dissolved - the seeker must be thorough. Sankara revealed over a thousand years ago what Ramana reveals even today. Not two, Richard RamanaMaharshi, S Jayanarayanan <sjayana wrote: > > I'm looking for a reference in the Vichara Sangraham where Bhagavan > has distinguished between "firm" Self-realization and someone who has > only had a glimpse of the Self but still has to extinguish his > Vasanas. The conversation recorded below in the "Talks" seems to > indicate such a reference, but I'm unable to locate it. If someone > knows of which verse in the Vichara Sangraham is being referred to in > "Talks", I would greatly appreciate it. > > Thanks in advance! > > --- > 21st October, 1938 > Talk 562. > There is a statement in the book Vichara Sangraha that though a > person realises the Self once, he cannot, for that simple reason > alone, become a mukta. He continues to remain a victim of vasanas > (latencies). Sri Bhagavan was asked whether the realisation referred > to was the same as the jnani's, and if so why there should be a > difference in their effects. > > M.: The experience is the same. Every person experiences the Self > consciously or unconsciously. The ajnani's experience is clouded by > his latencies whereas the jnani's is not so. The jnani's experience > of the Self is therefore distinct and permanent. > A practiser may by long practice gain a glimpse of the Reality. This > experience may be vivid for the time being. And yet he will be > distracted by the old vasanas and so his experience will not avail > him. Such a man must continue his manana and nididhyasana so that all > the obstacles may be destroyed. He will then be able to remain > permanently in the Real State. > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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