I really hope everyone got this illuminating letter from ShyamasundaraPrabhu

[Guest guest]

Dear Maharajas, Prabhus and Matajis,

 

Please accept my humble obeisance. All glories to Srila Prabhupada.

 

I have just received the following disturbing text regarding a temple in the

USA that wants to deviate from standard ISKCON policy regarding the Vaisnava

calendar and hence setting s precedent that could lead to fragmentation in

ISKCON.

 

SP wanted ISKCON to increase its standards not lower them.

 

Prabhupada: They must be all ideal acarya-like. In the beginning we have

done for working. Now we should be very cautious. Anyone who is deviating,

he can be replaced. (GBC Meets with Srila Prabhupada--May 28, 1977,

Vrindavana)

 

Here Srila Prabhupada refers to the fact that in the beginning he had to do

so many things to start ISKCON but now (1977) the standards have to be

raised. In this instance he is referring explicitly to the GBC but it

applies to the whole society (and its practices) as well because the society

will follow its leaders. According to the author of the text cited below we

should roll back any improvements in ISKCON back to pre-1977 levels but

Srila Prabhupada himself clearly indicates a preference for increased

standards.

 

My understanding is that SP sanctioned the Mayapura calendar because it

proved too hard for Pradyumna to make individual calendars for the rest of

world. He tried during SPs time, I have seen old copies of the Sankirtana

Newsletters where Pradyumna explained which days to follow ekadasi in

different parts of the world, but when that proved too difficult SP said

just stick to Mayapura calendar. But, now with availability of PCs it is now

possible to do what could not be done prior to 1977.

 

Of course by the author's "logic" anything that could not be done before

1977 but can be done now should not be done. That is "under-intelligent."

 

Following the correct ekadasi is indeed important as emphasized by Lord

Caitanya to his mother and as seen by the fact that Ambarisha Maharaja

risked his life to follow it correctly by angering Durvasa Muni.

 

Following the calendar properly is also an important element of Deity

worship. Should we never improve our efforts in Deity worship especially

when it can be easily done?

 

The Lord is called Brahma which means ever expanding. Devotional service is

ecstatic not static--it is always increasing with higher and higher levels

and standards. But according to the author we should not aspire to improve

our standards even when it is easy to do so. Now if it were a real

over-endeavor as it was prior to 1977 that would be one thing but now it

easy and the technical difficulties were solved back in 1983-84.

 

What Boston has done if not corrected by ISKCON authorities may lead to a

fragmentation of ISKCON.

 

And, also note the comments of the person below and my further comments

after that.

 

Your humble servant

 

Shyamasundara Dasa

 

PS feel free to pass this out if you want to.

 

 

 

www.ShyamasundaraDasa.com

 

---------- Forwarded Message ----------

 

Letter PAMHO:12441721 (194 lines)

Internet:

20-Oct-06 23:11 -0400 (17:11 -1000)

Shyamasundara (das) ACBSP (Vedic Astrologer) (USA) [33127]

Reference: Text PAMHO:12441084 by Internet: Nimai Nitai Das

Fwd: please don't follow the Mayapure calendar outside Bengal

---------------------------

Dear Shyam, PAMHO AGTSP

 

I guess that you saw this. If not please let me know what you think.

Interesting, I was not aware that there were still people out there

with such attitudes. As far as I know a non-Vaisnava astrologer

calculates the Caitanya Math panjika and another one calculates the

panjika for Devananda GM. I mean this devotee seems to think that

there is something innately transcendental about the Caitanya Math's

calculations. I really don't understand his logic in saying that we

should not do material calculations. What other type of calculations

can we make? Again this comes back to the GBC. If they have never

rescinded or superseded the ISKCON law that everyone should follow

the mayapur calendar then they are at fault for this confusion. I

suggest that the GBC (with your urging or Hari Sauri's or whoever's)

please clarify this. It seems crazy that one GBC member allows one

temple to follow a completely different system than everyone else.

(Or are there more of these people following Mayapura calendar?) I

would like to know if they have Mangal Arati also at the same time in

Boston as it is in Mayapur? Mangal Arati is performed calculated

according to the Sunrise in the same way as Ekadasi is, so why not do

that also? You and I and many others all know that in the old days we

used to use the Mayapur Panjika. I have on many occasions gone to the

Yoga Pith, bought it and brought it back to Mayapur for translation

and worldwide distribution. I can remember buying an extra copy for

myself to use for many years. However when Vcal came along I was

definitely much happier. Even if there may be minor errors in any

program or even in the Mayapur panjika's we have got to follow

something. I feel that we should try to follow the most accurate

calculation that we can. To my understanding that at present is Vcal.

 

ys

 

 

 

 

 

> "Nimai Nitai Das" <nimai.nitaidas >

> October 20, 2006 11:31:24 AM HST

> "Narasimha44 (AT) aol (DOT) com" <Narasimha44 (AT) aol (DOT) com>

> Cc: jayapataka.swami (AT) pamho (DOT) net, jayadvaitaswami (AT) aim (DOT) com,

> bhurijana.acbsp (AT) pamho (DOT) net, Bhanu.Swami (AT) pamho (DOT) net,

> devamrita.swami (AT) pamho (DOT) net, bhakti.purusottama.swami (AT) pamho (DOT) net,

> nrs108 , bhakti.charu.swami (AT) pamho (DOT) net,

> dravida (AT) mindspring (DOT) com, bhakti.vikasa.swami (AT) pamho (DOT) net,

> ajamila.acbsp (AT) pamho (DOT) net, Bhaktarupa.ACBSP (AT) pamho (DOT) net,

> madhavananda.ggs (AT) pamho (DOT) net, India.Open (AT) pamho (DOT) net,

> isvara.ggs (AT) pamho (DOT) net, bhima.acbsp (AT) pamho (DOT) net,

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> braj.hari.jps (AT) pamho (DOT) net, gregjay (AT) bluebottle (DOT) com,

> hari.sauri.acbsp (AT) pamho (DOT) net, nimai.nitaidas ,

> ramadevi.acbsp (AT) pamho (DOT) net, sixgoswamis (AT) hotmail (DOT) com,

> satsvarupa_dasa_goswami (AT) hotmail (DOT) com, janardana.gkg (AT) pamho (DOT) net,

> bhagavatpuranadas , yadu (AT) krishna (DOT) dk,

> lalitanatha (AT) krishna (DOT) dk, Sura.ACBSP (AT) pamho (DOT) net,

> panchratna.gkg (AT) pamho (DOT) net, purnacandra.acbsp (AT) pamho (DOT) net,

> cnd108 , sporecki (AT) msn (DOT) com

> Re: please don't follow the Mayapure calendar outside Bengal

> nimai.nitaidas

>

> Dear Payonidhi Prabhu,

>

> Please accept my humble obeisances.

> All glories to His Divine Grace Srila Prabhupada.

>

> Although i respect your opinion, please do not presume to judge our

> practices, and to unnecessarily provoke controversy in a public

> forum without first having the common courtesy of engaging in a

> dialogue with the parties involved to seek unbiased information.

>

> In any case, this is not a topic that should be discussed in an

> email exchange, where opportunities for sober dialogue are

> extremely limited, and the urge to form a quick opinion and express

> an even quicker rejoinder are the rule, rather than the exception.

> Still, because you have chosen to open this untimely discussion,

> which we have studiously avoided out of respect for devotees with

> different views on the subject as well as for pastoral economy, i

> will reply briefly.

>

> We are aware of the many divergences in lunar phases as observed in

> different geographical locations, and we are also aware of the

> reasoning that impelled the ISKCON GBC, together with some branches

> of the Gaudiya Matha, to produce multiple local calendars for the

> observance of Ekadasi and other dates. We have read the learned

> studies, and freely accept their firmly based scientific

> conclusions regarding the relative accuracy of the local calendars

> and the original Gaudiya Panjika (Mayapura Liturgical Calendar).

>

> In our humble opinion, however, that line of reasoning is both

> inconclusive and ultimately irrelevant. Were the Gosvamis guilty of

> fasting when They should have feasted, or feasting when They should

> have fasted, because Their calculations were probably less accurate

> than today's computer-generated outputs?

 

This is an not correct and based on the supposition that the calendars used

by the Goswamis were inherently flawed because they used calculations not

based on JPL algorithms. The calculation tolerances need not be so

hairsplitting. But one should always use the best methods available; just as

one should always use the best ingredients available for cooking for the

Lord.

 

Do the devotees in Boston also only offer the Lord a ball of dough thrown in

the fire and without even any salt like the Gosvamis did because the

Goswamis didn't have the means to cook more opulently? Are we now "over

intelligent" because we offer salt and nice bhoga to the Deities unlike the

Six Gosvamis?

 

The Six Gosvamis did follow the local calendars as calculated in their areas

as would any Brahmana or Vaisnava. The calculations were accurate enough for

calendric purposes. The author uses a false argument that calculations have

to be super accurate like using an accuracy of 1 thousandth of second of arc

or more as in the JPL calculations.

 

Does the Hari Bhakti Vilasa of Santana Gosvami and Gopala Bhatta Gosvami say

that we should calculate calendars using shoddy methods or not do them

according to the locale? No.

 

Even if the calendars of their day made mistakes and gave a wrong day here

or there it was the best that was available. The point is to use the best in

the service of the Lord not the worst. That is what I was always taught by

my guru maharaja.

 

Even with the best calculations devotees sometimes fail to observe a fast or

miss an ekadasi by mistake, in which case there is an appropriate atonement.

 

Maharaja Jai Singh founder of Jaipura was not a contemporary of the Six

Gosvamis but of Visvanatha Chakravarti and Baladeva Vidyabhusana. He was an

astronomer King. His observatory "Yantar mantar" boasted more accurate

observations and resulting calculations and calendars than those of the

contemporary Europeans. His sundial "Raja yantra" still keeps time accurate

to within 10 seconds. He had observatories in several places in India

including Delhi, Ujjain, Benares and Mathura. That is what the local pandits

used, the most up to date calculations, and that is what the Vaisnavas in

Mathura mandala followed.

 

One uses the best that one has when it comes to worshipping the Lord. The

Lord says He accepts a leaf a flower or some water if it is offered in

devotion. Hence even a poor man can worship him. But Srila Prabhupada warns

against trying to cheat Krsna. If one has the means to offer something

better then he should.

 

Today we have the means to offer something better but they do want not want

to do so.

 

 

 

>

> There is NO exact calculation possible, anywhere in the material

> world. Every calculation is just an approximation. Among such

> inexact calculations, we choose to accept that approximation

> received in disciplic succession, rather than the most current

> computer-generated astrological data, which will inevitably be

> "improved" and "corrected" at some future point in time --just like

> toothpaste or shampoo, or so many other consumer products.

 

So because there is no exact calculation their solution is to choose the

least accurate, not the most accurate. (-:

 

Because of the nature of the material world the observable planetary

positions gradually gets out of phase with calculations. To bring

calculations back into alignment with observable reality the astronomical

texts prescribe that a "bija samskara" be performed because the calculations

must preserve the phenomena. Srila Bhaktisiddhanta did this to the Surya

Siddhanta which had not had such a samskara performed in almost 1000 years

and hence had become practically useless. Western Astronomers do basically

the same thing about every 25-50 years to adjust the "astronomical

constants" which are inherently non-constant but are brought back into

alignment with observable reality. What to speak of astronomy Lord Krsna has

to do the same thing with transcendental teaching as explained in BG 4th

chapter because the material world is such that as a function of time things

tend toward chaos and must be brought back into order by an intelligent

hand.

 

The author uses the terms "improved" and "corrected" as an aspersion

alluding to how SP would attack modern science as being speculative and

never arriving to any truth hence tries to create a similar sentiment in the

minds of the reader that SP would also mock and disapprove of such

astronomical adjustments. But we see that jyotish acaryas like Varaha Mihira

and the astronomical texts themselves recommend such procedures. And BSST

himself was noted for bringing the Surya Siddhanta back into alignment with

observable reality. It is the phenomena which is important not the

calculation, so the calculation has to present as accurately as possible the

phenomena and when necessary the calculation adjusted for that purpose.

 

SP gave different standards at different times according to the capacity of

his followers to follow and implement. One can easily find instructions that

Srila Prabhupada gave at an earlier time which he then countered at a later

time. For example prior to Feb 14, 1977 you will find many times when Srila

Prabhupada would extol VAD but then say it could not be done. And those in

ISKCON who are against VAD will trot out those passages.

 

But on Feb 14, 1977 SP insisted that VAD had to be established in ISKCON,

his disciples even argued with him using the very same arguments that SP

himself previously used to try to defeat him. But SP was relentless in his

insistence that VAD had to be established. (I want to make it clear that the

discussion between SP and his disciples on that topic was not polemic and

the disciples were not being offensive, bewildered would be a better

description.)

 

Because his disciples had no way of doing a local calendar Srila Prabhupada

authorized a Mayapura based calendar. But Srila Prabhupada always wanted

increased standards when they could be implemented in a practical and

consistent manner. The higher standard that could not be consistently

applied or practical before can now be done in 5 seconds. Hence the author's

position has no standing.

 

 

>

> It is not ignorance of geography and astronomy, but faithful

> adherence to the previous decisions of our Acharyas, that dictates

> our determination to observe the Mayapura Calendar. Furthermore,

> this determination is in strict agreement with the practice

> established by His Divine Grace Srila Prabhupada for His worldwide

> movement during His entire manifest pastimes. ISKCON's GBC, in its

> RESOLUTION #53 of February 20, 1988, confirmed this practice as

> authoritative:

>

> 53. That the GBC accepts the Yoga Pitha Gaudiya Panjika calendar as

> authoritative for ISKCON on the instructions of Srila Prabhupada.

> It is also Srila Prabhupada's instructions that the Panjika be

> followed in any time zone of the world according to the same

> Calendar date as observed in Mayapur.

>

> Please note that the resolution states categorically that Srila

> Prabhupada instructed ISKCON to follow the Panjika "IN ANY TIME

> ZONE OF THE WORLD ACCORDING TO THE SAME CALENDAR DATE AS OBSERVED

> IN MAYAPUR." To our knowledge, there is no subsequent ruling of

> the GBC that specifically prohibits the observance of the Mayapura

> Calendar.

 

Here is the 1990 GBC resolution on the calendar based on research I

commission Markendeya Rsi Prabhu to do on my behalf:

 

<begin quote>

 

1990-42. That the report of the Calendar Research Committee is accepted in

principle, with thanks. ISKCON temples throughout the world shall follow

the official calendar calculated according to the conclusions of this

report, which are:

 

a) That the calculations should be made based upon the local time of

sunrise.

 

b) That a computerized method of calculations is acceptable.

 

c) That the length of a muhurta shall be calculated as a 15th part

of

the daytime and a 15th part of the nighttime.

 

d) That sunrise shall be defined as the time of calculated

visibility

of the upper limb of the sun at the horizon, and the time of sunset

as the time of calculated disappearance of the upper limb of the sun

at the

horizon.

 

e) That the calculations shall be based upon the positions of the

heavenly bodies as determined according to modern scientific

astronomical

observations.

 

<end quote>

 

The resolution states: "ISKCON temples throughout the world shall follow the

official calendar calculated according to the conclusions of this report"

and then goes on to state what those factors are. This constitutes a "yama"-

what must be done. And by implication also includes a "niyama"-what must not

be done. The Niyama is that the calendar followed by ISKCON temples CAN NOT

be done in a different way. This is standard Mimamsa - method of sastric

analysis. The author tries to quibble by stating that the GBC not only has

to state what must be done but must also anticipate every possible wrong

thing that can be done and then specifically say it can't be done. That is

unnecessary. Simple by saying it must be done in a specific way

automatically means it can not be done in another way. Any other

interpretation is mere quibbling and hair splitting.

 

 

 

>

> Although he favors the use of local calendars, Sripada Romapada

> Swami Maharaja, North American GBC Executive Committee Chair, is

> aware and respectful of our practice, as is the GBC Vaisnava

> Calendar Committee, with whose members we have held a brief and

> respectful exchange.

 

In my opinion the presently constituted Vaisnava Calendar committee headed

by Bhaktarupa Prabhu is NOT competent.

 

>

> Sripada Jayadvaita Maharaja, in a recent visit to New Gundicha less

> than two months ago, stated that, when approached by devotees with

> the very same arguments you and others have presented here and

> elsewhere, Srila Prabhupada dismissed them as "over-intelligent."

 

I would like to hear that from him directly not hear say. But even if what

he said is true, it was true before 1977 because then it was an

over-endeavor whereas today it is only 5 seconds work for a PC.

 

>

> Earth is one planet, and in Kali Yuga its spiritual capital is Sri

> Mayapura. Fragmentation of our unity as a Society and a Sampradaya,

> and an unhealthy obsession with the minutia of the material world

> are some of the potential unwanted results of calculating local

> dates and times for transcendental events, which in any case, are

> commemorated and observed for their spiritual, and not their

> material import.

 

 

So very good, in Mayapura they have mangala arotika (a transcendental event)

at 4:30 AM which is 6 PM in Boston the previous day. Is that when the Boston

devotees have Mangala Arotika? They have Sandhya arotika (another

transcendental event) at 6 PM and then all take rest by 9 PM in Mayapura.

For Boston that means that they should be having Sandhya arotika at 7:30 AM

and all retire for rest of day at 10:30 AM and get up for Mangala arotika

which as we already know is 6 PM Boston time. Boston temple should also do

all their rituals and daily life exactly at the same time as in Mayapura

(breakfast at 10:30 PM, etc) and not let unhealthy obsession with minutia of

the material world stop them. After all why should they care if the sky is

dark in Boston it is daylight in Mayapura the spiritual capital.

 

The rest of ISKCON follows a local calendar; it is Boston temple leaders

only who are causing fragmentation.

 

 

>

> When Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Prabhupada, as a young man, "corrected"

> the calculations of the traditional Vaisnavas and presented them to

> His Father, Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakura noted that these new

> calculations were indeed more correct. Then He said: "Now, discard

> them, and use the traditional Panjika."

 

Citation and context please.

 

I asked Bhakti Vikasa Maharaja (who is working on what will probably be the

definitive biography of Bhakti Siddhanta Sarasvati Gosvami) about this and

he said something to the effect that it is a misquote of hearsay attributed

to BR Sridhar Svami.

 

BSST didn't work on the calendar at the behest of Bhaktivinode Thakura but

at the behest of Jagannatha Dasa Babaji who specifically told him to revise

the Vaisnava calendar. So why Bhaktivinode would go against the instructions

of his own guru? The following quote from my original introduction to the

1984 copy of the Vaisnava calendar sheds light on this point:

 

" Just as Jiva Goswami compiled a Sanskrit grammar using the names of Visnu,

the Gaudiya Acaryas have compiled a Navadvipa Pancanga using the names of

Visnu for the days of the week, the twelve months, the 30 tithis and

nakshtras or constellations, giving proper times for Vaisnava festivals and

appearance and disappearance days of Gaudiya Acaryas. Srila Jagannatha Das

Babaji first compiled the list of lunar tithis for appearance and

disappearance times of the associates of Lord Caitanya and the major

Vaisnava festivals. This was published in a calendar form by Srila

Bhaktivinoda Thakur. When Jagannatha Das Babaji met Srila Bhaktisiddhanta

Sarasvati Thakur, he requested him to make a Vaisnava calendar using

Caitanya years, Visnu months, Visnu tithis, Visnu nakshtras, determined

accurately according to Vaisnava sastra. This Navadvipa Pancanga first

appeared in Srila Bhaktivinoda's Sajjan Tosani, and in 1918 the Pancanga

appeared in book form."

 

The point being the revision of the calendar was not the independent idea of

BSST but rather of Jagannatha Dasa Babji Maharaja. Hence how BVT could

interfere with it?

 

>

> In His own time, Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati, Himself a

> brilliant astrologer, utilized the Mayapura Calendar for His entire

> movement, including preaching activities in Burma, Germany, and

> England. Was He ignorant of the astronomical facts and misguided in

> His insistence on the observance of one calendar? We beg to abstain

> from such blasphemy.

 

As pointed out above what was not possible to do easily in the 1920-30s is

now simplicity itself. The author's argument for keeping a lower standard

when a higher standard is easily achieved is not persuasive. Keeping a lower

standard when a higher standard is very simple to implement is blasphemy.

 

 

>

> Are we to suppose that Srila Prabhupada led ISKCON into

> inauspiciousness, even sin, by simultaneously observing Ekadasi

> according to the Mayapura Calendar in New York and London, Mumbai

> and Sydney, Moscow and San Francisco? Are we to imagine that His

> decision to hold Festivals, initiations, Deity installations, and

> Temple openings according to the Mayapura Calendar were mistakes

> leading to inauspiciousness? Again, we beg to abstain from such

> blasphemy.

 

The author has misapprehended the law of karma. One only gets karma when a

choice is involved. If there is no choice there is no karma. If a bank

robber sticks a gun to the head of a bank employee and tells them to give

the money and they comply the bank employee is not charged with a felony as

they had no real choice - it was comply or die.

 

In the past there was no real choice. It was extremely difficult and

practically impossible to implement local calendars consistently during

Srila Prabhupada's time what to speak of BSST's time. To do so at that time

would have required hand calculations by experts for each and every center.

Such calculations would have taken months to do just for one year for each

and every place. When I first wrote the VCAL program back in 1983-4 I was

able to reduce what previously took almost a year to calculate by hand to

about 3 hours. Now with more powerful computers it takes less than 5

seconds.

 

Then (pre-1977) there was no real choice hence no karma. Now there is a real

choice and with it comes karma.

 

 

>

> We're not astrologers or smarta brahmanas, but aspiring devotees.

 

Ahh the "S" word, I knew it would appear at some point. The author does not

appear to know what a Smarta brahmana is otherwise he would not use it as he

has. However, he uses it the way most ISKCON devotees use it when they want

to put down anyone who is trying to follow more strictly than they are. It

is their justification for following a lower standard and feeling superior

about it.

 

As aspiring devotees it is incumbent on us to learn the cultural activities

in Krsna's Vedic civilization and apply it in our daily lives when it is

practical to do so. What was previously not practical has now become simple.

To avoid adopting a higher standard when it is simple to do so is not the

symptom of an aspiring devotee who always wants to give the best to the

Lord.

 

 

> Here in New Gundicha, with the kind authorization of our Governing

> Body Commissioner, Srila Niranjana Swami Maharaja, we observe the

> one calendar that Srila Prabhupada received in disciplic succession

> and transmitted to us: the Mayapura Calendar.

>

> We are not proselytizing for others to return to the Mayapura

> Calendar, but we humbly request a modicum of respect for this

> determination, which has been made after much meditation and

> prayer, and not out of gross material ignorance regarding astronomy

> and geography.

 

I beg to differ on the author's self assessment.

 

 

>

> If we each attend to our own devotional service, rather than

> provoking unnecessary controversies, then, regardless of the

> liturgical calendar that we follow, we will be utilizing our time

> more fruitfully.

 

And previously the author was saying that ISKCON should be unified now they

don't care and want to do their own thing.

 

 

>

> I beg to remain the servant of the servants of the Lord.

>

> Respectfully,

> Nimai Nitai dasa

>

>

> --

> New Gundicha Temple Community

> ISKCON of New England

> 72 Commonwealth Avenue

> Boston, MA 02116

> Tel. 617.247-8611

> Nimai.Nitaidas

(Text PAMHO:12441721) -----

 

------- End of Forwarded Message ------