Official Ramakanta vs. IRM discussion thread

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Posted by Yaduraja on Oct 24, 2006:

 

Dear Ramakanta Prabhu,

PAMHO. AGTSP!

I had written:

 

.... c) logically follows from b).

 

to which you respond:

 

> This is an unconfirmed conclusion drawn by your imperfect brain.

>

> "Therefore you must confirm by quotes every statement that you make.

> Otherwise it is rascaldom." (Yaduraja, Oct 16, 2006)

 

Are you saying that I need to find somewhere in sastra where a great sage

predicts that a Swiss bodied man will challenge a pure devotees

institutional directives and offers the same points a,b, and c that I have

framed the debate with? If so then I would like to see where every single

one of your statements in this debate was made by some previous acarya and

recorded in Srila Prabhupada's books.

 

otherwise my reply is, no, it’s a confirmed conclusion based on the quotes I

presented proving the GBC:

 

1) Were to manage initiation.

2) Were told precisely how to manage initiation (July 9th).

3) Were not authorised to change the system of initiation that locked in

place the status quo you agree Srila Prabhupada established in 1966.

 

I can repost all the relevant quotes proving the above status quo lock down

if you have already forgotten them, just let me know.

 

And then for your homework you really need to focus on the fact that you

have offered NO order to the GBC on ANYTHING, not to speak on the issue at

hand: their authority to change the management system by removing Srila

Prabhupada as the sole diksa guru for ISKCON and then identifying and

installing successors. If you are not claiming this then the status quo

remains, just please make up your mind what it is you are claiming.

 

> As I already wrote twice, this "go to war" is a conclusion drawn by your

> imperfect brain.

 

No, it is EXACTLY what would happen if someone OTHER than Srila Prabhupada

tried to pose himself as guru within an institution that strictly followed

the management system set in place by Srila Prabhupada; a system that merely

perpetuated the status quo you already agreed he established way back in

1966, and in which he was to remain the SOLE diksa guru for ISKCON.

 

It was the GBC’s job to make sure no-one posed themselves as Guru (diksa,

since siksa is authorised) through ‘very strong management’ and ‘vigilant

observation’:

 

> Bhavananda: There will be men, I know. There will be men who want to try

> and pose themselves as Guru.Tamal Krishna Goswami: that was going on many

> years ago. You godbrothers were thinking like that. Madhava Maharaja.

> Srila Prabhupada: Very strong management required and vigilant

> observation.

 

Therefore the person posing as such a Guru would be at war with the

management system, and would have to be dealt with by ‘very strong

management’ and ‘vigilant observation’ as Srila Prabhupada confirms above.

 

> Do you ignore the two statements by Srila Prabhupada that I have just

> quoted because they don't fit in your theory?

 

I didn’t ignore the quotes; I simply chose to comment on your exceedingly

foolish interpretation of them. It is you who have ignored the ramifications

of your own interpretation of those quotes, perhaps because it does not ‘fit

your theory’. So I repeat:

 

"But probably you wanted to ask me if I claim that Srila Prabhupada cannot

deliver disciples on this planet without being present (incarnated) on this

planet. Yes, I claim that." (Ramakanta das)

 

Oh dear me! Have you told all the poor devotees who think they are Srila

Prabhupada’s disciples, like for instance all the current ISKCON ‘diksa

gurus’, that they cannot now be 'delivered' since they have not had a

physically 'incarnated' guru for three decades!

 

If the ISKCON gurus cannot be delivered then how can their disciples be

delivered? How can gurus that, according to you, have no chance of being

delivered, deliver their own disciples?

 

So basically your position means that no-one in the world connected with

ISKCON can currently be delivered!

 

So why don’t you find another spiritual path that has not been

‘discontinued’?

 

Why are you even attempting to debate a subject which is, by your own

reckoning, a dead issue. An impossibility.

 

Indeed, according to your philosophy, Srila Prabhupada should have put a

‘best before’ date on all his books and temples since it is all now useless.

 

This is the problem when you are addicted to speculation.

 

Best wishes

Ys

Yadu