Serving Prabhupada Together

[Guest guest]

Srila Prabhupada and Bombay

 

A Talk by Giriraj Swami and Shyamasundar Prabhu

July 19, 2005

Los Angeles

 

 

Shyamasundar das: Because we have not seen each other for so many years, we

thought this morning Giriraj Maharaja and I would take a little walk down

memory lane and try to remember together some of the incredible times we had

with Srila Prabhupada and put everyone in the mood of appreciating those

times.

 

We must take our minds back a little, to around 1970. I had never met

Giriraj before. I was active more on the West Coast and in Europe, and he

was on the East Coast. Srila Prabhupada had been in America for about four

years and had from day one inculcated in his disciples here the intense

desire to spread Krsna consciousness. The devotees had no other activity but

to spread Prabhupada's message. We did not have so many books then; Srila

Prabhupada's books were just beginning to trickle in. And we did not have

the knowledge of the Vedic tradition. We had only recently even begun to

wear dhotis and shave our heads and get rid of our dogs. So, Prabhupada more

or less harnessed our energy to do something. He wanted us to spread Krsna

consciousness; that much we could understand. And he more or less left it to

us. In some ways, Prabhupada in the early days in America did not know that

much about how we do things here. He was learning from us how our society

works and he gave only this one command: "Spread Hare Krsna as fast and hard

as you can." And then he guided us, of course, and managed to some extent,

but he gave us long leashes to do whatever we felt we could to spread Krsna

consciousness. After some time--three or four years of this--several temples

became very strong and the movement was spreading and it became quite well

known and stable. So Srila Prabhupada decided at that time--and of course we

do not know the depths of his thought--but my sense is that he was always

thinking that some day he would bring this movement back to his own country.

He used to talk about that even in the early times, that "My country has

forgotten Krsna. When we are ready we will go there and teach them again."

 

So several of us, maybe twenty of us, got these notices Srila Prabhupada

sent out that he had decided to take some of his disciples to India and that

we should all meet him there one way or another. In those days we had no

organized financing or anything. Everyone was on their own: "However you can

get there, you try to get there. I will be there." So Giriraj went, via

Belgium. Gurudasa had a friend who worked for a very small Belgian airline

that had one airplane with two propellers. [laughter] It was called Bosco

Airlines, and they did fly to Bombay, but their route was via Aden and

Cairo. They had to refuel. Now, this was a converted cargo carrier. It had

no passenger seats. They had put temporary seats in, and we were all so

thrilled. We were going to India. We were going to India to meet Srila

Prabhupada. He was already there. He was coming around from the Los Angeles

side. No one had any plan of what was going to happen, any idea of what was

going to happen. No one knew anything about India. Prabhupada was the first

Indian man I had ever seen in my life. There were no Indian immigrants here.

India was a far-off place of magic and color, but we really knew nothing

about it except that Srila Prabhupada was from there and that his knowledge

was radically changing our lives. Whatever he said, we would do without

question. So the excitement began to build. We were free from our bonds, the

things that were attaching us to America or Europe--our temple

responsibilities and so on. We were flying off into the wind with Srila

Prabhupada. I can remember flying through those Alps and looking out the

little windows and seeing the mountains higher than the airplane. It was

just skimming over the clouds. [laughter] We stopped at Aden. It was so hot.

We got off the plane and it was around 110 degrees. Do you remember that?

 

Giriraj Swami: Yes.

 

Shyamasundar das: And there was one palm tree. We had to wait many hours

while they refueled this plane by hauling out barrels of fuel and filling it

manually. [laughter] There was one palm tree. It cast a long shadow. So we

were all kind of in a row behind this long tree. [laughter]. Then the next

stop was Cairo. As we flew over the airport there we saw three exploded

jumbo jets on the tarmac. Our eyes were more or less fixed on the pyramids,

but there were these three giant wrecks of planes that the terrorists had

blown up right on the tarmac the week before. When we got out of the plane

to rest while they refueled, the men guarded us with machine guns.

 

So we got to India. We got to Bombay, and everything was overwhelming.

Prabhupada's role with us, his relationship with us, was all of a sudden

very different. Now he was the commander-in-chief. From day one he guided

everything we did in India. We had no clue what was going on. We saw all

this wonderful color and activity, and we kept looking around the streets of

Bombay to see pictures of Krsna or temples to Krsna, but there were none.

Where was Krsna in this huge city? There was no visible evidence of all of

this philosophy and wonderful culture that Prabhupada had been teaching us.

Only noise, sound, and color. So Prabhupada immediately took charge and

began to guide us, and he gave us the same message: now we had to bring

Krsna consciousness back to India and revive it there.

 

This was the first time that Giriraj, I, and many of the other devotees were

all together in a common effort. Srila Prabhupada immediately began to

divide us into active groups. He began to travel quickly from place to

place, two- or three-day trips--not long trips, but a few days here, a few

days there--maintaining a base in Bombay, shifting from one house to

another, constantly moving. It was a wonderful, wonderful period of seeing

Srila Prabhupada in action as the commander-in-chief, rather than us taking

the lead, as we had in America. Do you remember? What were your first

impressions in those days?

 

Giriraj Swami: Like you, I saw India as very remote and exotic. Once in a

while, as I was driving by the University of Chicago, I would see an Indian

lady in a sari or an Indian gentleman with a turban. But I don't think I had

ever really met one until the Boston temple. One couple started to come. I

remember that the gentleman had a thick accent. They came regularly. Years

later, I found out that his wife had taken initiation from Srila Prabhupada,

Sunita Mataji, but I guess he didn't follow her. The only knowledge of India

I had, if you want to call it knowledge, came from a documentary I'd been

shown in school. All I remembered was seeing cows in the street--really hot,

crowded city streets and cows--and it was like, "Oh, they worship the cow.

They have cows in the streets." It all looked quite backward. But when we

arrived in Bombay, I was excited; I was enlivened. I did see cows in the

street, but I was happy. I thought, "They are protecting the cows, as they

should." It seemed like a long drive from the airport to downtown Bombay,

but it was exciting. Several cars had come to receive us at the airport.

Kailash Seksaria showed us a letter that said he was supposed to receive us.

All the cars were Ambassadors, all the same, but that was okay. We all wore

the same dress, just that some were saffron and others white . . .

 

Shyamasundar das: Or yellow.

 

Giriraj Swami: Yes, yellow. So that was okay. In India then there were only

two makes of cars--Ambassadors and Fiats--and only one model of each. That

was good, simple. You didn't have to decide between too many choices. Do you

want to take up from when we arrived at Seksaria Bhavan?

 

Shyamasundar das: My memories really start when Prabhupada arrived at

Seksaria.

 

Giriraj Swami: Okay, I can continue until then. So, Seksaria Bhavan was a

big mansion overlooking the Arabian Sea, and I was very impressed that the

building was named after our host. There were five stories, and Srila

Prabhupada was given quarters on the ground floor. The whole ground floor,

or what we would call the first floor here, was a guesthouse. Also on the

ground floor were a couple of large rooms where the men just lay down on the

floor to take rest, and there was a large common bathroom. And as I recall,

there was one room where Gurudas and Yamuna stayed. Mr. Seksaria himself

lived on the third story, where he would host us for meals. There was an

elevator to take you there, but I had not used an elevator since I had

joined. I didn't know if we were allowed to. [laughter] Somehow within

myself I thought it was maya. I thought it was too easy, too comfortable.

[laughter] So the other devotees would take the elevator, but I would always

take the stairs.

 

Every day, every meal was like a banquet. The Boston temple, where I came

from, was especially austere. Satsvarupa Maharaja, Adhikari at the time, was

temple president, and breakfast consisted of something like two slices of

apple, between four and seven chickpeas, about three round slices of banana,

and a little cereal. So it was very austere. Lunch was rice, dal, one

vegetable, and chapatis. After about a year and a half, Srila Prabhupada

said that a little sweet at the end of the meal was nice. I got worried: "We

might get into sense gratification." [laughter] So I came from that

background. Now every day was a huge spread: almonds, cashews, pistachios,

and all sorts of fruits. And the lunch--there would be so many types of

vegetables all cooked in ghee, dal, rice, puris or chapatis, savories such

as samosas and kachoris, and then sweets. Every meal there would be so many

sweets: burfi, pera, sandesa, rasagullas, gulabjamuns. So I was in a lot of

anxiety, and I would basically just pick the items that we used to eat in

Boston. [laughter] No cashews, no almonds, no pistachios, no sweets. I tried

to hold onto that, and for a while I did, but I was in anxiety. Still, I saw

the older devotees. I knew that they were not only more senior than me in

years but also more mature in Krsna consciousness. My first impression of

them had been when we were in Belgium. Shyamasundar and Malati, and Gurudas

and Yamuna, had come from England; they were already there when we arrived.

Our hosts brought us to the flat where they were staying, and as soon as I

walked in I felt a completely different atmosphere; it was palpable. They

were so Prabhupada conscious. All they did was talk about Srila Prabhupada.

I felt a very powerful spiritual atmosphere in that small flat in Brussels.

So I knew that these were very mature devotees, very special devotees, but

still, I could not take the elevator and I could not eat nuts and sweets, at

least at first. [laughter]

 

Shyamasundar das: You can see how Srila Prabhupada pulled all these diverse

personalities from diverse backgrounds with diverse understandings of Krsna

consciousness and threw us all together in the same room--I had not slept

with twenty men in a room for many years, not since I'd become a

devotee--and united us in one goal: to spread Krsna consciousness. That was

it. We were there for that. We were his army, and we balanced each other

out. We did not know each other; we had never met before. I knew only three

or four out of the twenty. But Giriraj with his quiet, calm, thinking manner

balanced out my crazy energy. I wanted to dash off and do this and that, but

Giriraj would say, "Well, what . . ." [laughter] I always used to think,

"How can this man speak so slowly?" [laughter] He was just a boy and very

thin. I think he looks good now with a little weight. [laughter]

 

But then, when Prabhupada came to the Seksaria house, it was like the king

had arrived. We began to feel that whole Indian thing with the reverence for

the master and the opulences that he was able to command at his fingertips.

He began arranging us breaking into the scene in Bombay, arranging programs.

The first one I recall was the big program we had on the beach, at

Chowpatty. It was general--not interfaith, but it was all kinds of Hindu

yogis speaking their bits. It was a conference, a seminar or something, of

maybe ten yogis, something like that, ten sadhus. Almost as an afterthought

we were invited, and Prabhupada went up and sat on the dais with all the

other yogis. And then we all started piling up too. [laughter] The host or

moderator of this thing came running up and said, "No, you can't have all

these people up there." But Prabhupada said, "If they do not sit with me, I

do not sit here." [laughter] So they allowed us all on the stage with him,

and we just took over the whole show. We started chanting Hare Krsna and

dancing. We began to get the feeling that "Oh yes, okay, Prabhupada wants to

exhibit us. That's what he is doing." We were always trying to figure out

what Prabhupada was trying to do. And then we danced and chanted. Pretty

soon the whole beach started chanting and dancing. It was a several-day

conference. All these yogis talked for days about the mayavadi stuff,

merging with the void and this and that. But the culminating experience was

chanting Hare Krsna for about an hour. Everybody just loved it.

 

That was our first hit in Bombay, and there was beginning to be some

newspaper coverage and things like that. The Kalbadevi temple, we used to go

down there. They began to kind of adopt us. This was really something. You

have to realize the times. This was something so unique for Indian people to

see. These great yogis had gone out into the world--Yogananda and people

like that. I can't even remember all their names, but at most they had made

maybe one or two foreign disciples, and they were resting on those laurels.

Maybe they even brought one or two foreigners back with them to India; I

don't know. But suddenly one of their own people brings back twenty

Westerners who were completely Vaisnava looking and acting, full of

enthusiasm, and thinking only about Krsna. This was startling for the people

of Bombay. And to spread that more quickly, Prabhupada started accepting

every invitation that came his way. Whenever people--from Gorakhpur, Indore,

Surat, or wherever--said, "Oh please come to my city," Prabhupada would be

on the next train with a bunch of devotees. He always left a key group

behind, because as he said from the beginning, "Bombay should be our base."

Well, it was undecided--Bombay, Calcutta, or Delhi--but when Prabhupada saw

the kind of opulences and facilities available in Bombay for spreading Krsna

consciousness, he began to target Bombay as the center, at least initially.

 

So, one by one, these cities fell to Prabhupada's magic, and we began to

feel a different level in our connection with Krsna. We could see it in a

historical and traditional way now, rather than just loving Prabhupada and

the culture and country he came from. Now we were becoming part of that same

culture. We could see it. There was not much evidence of Krsna in Bombay.

There were no Krsna temples and things set up, but at first Prabhupada did

not grab us and take us to Vrndavana or Mayapur or any of those places. He

wanted us to spread Krsna consciousness in a Western way, right there in the

heart of the commercial activity of Bombay. And we met some characters.

 

One other important aspect to that whole period was the fun we had. This was

the most fun I think I had ever had in my life. We were always joking.

Because we were so diverse but so united with Prabhupada, we could see the

humor in each other's personalities, and we began to have these long running

jokes about the people we met and became friends with. Whoever they

were--major personalities in Bombay or just anyone--they became part of our

amusement. The whole thing was so painless because it was so much fun. We

didn't have anything. Talk about those vast banquets and everything--but

those came and went, and the next day we would eat a few chickpeas.

[laughter] But we had so much fun. And the fun that we had, hooked us deeper

and deeper into Prabhupada's tender net. We could also see the joy that he

was experiencing while he did all this. We would go to some meeting and he

would be all grave and stern and chastising his countrymen for allowing

Krsna consciousness to drop, and then when we would get back to our place a

few of us would be sitting around with Prabhupada and he would bring up

something that happened there and we would all start laughing. Prabhupada

would start making jokes about it. [laughter]

 

He was so detached from the whole thing. It seemed like Krsna was writing

the script. He always did with Prabhupada. With Prabhupada there was never a

moment when you could guess what was going to happen. You could never

predict even a moment in advance what he was going to do or say. He was a

constant surprise. Even after years of being closely associated with Srila

Prabhupada, even as his secretary, every time my hand went through that door

to his room, it trembled with anticipation. There was this feeling of "Boy,

I hope I'm ready for this." Even after years of that, whatever was to happen

inside that door in the next five minutes or five hours, you did not know.

"It is going to be wonderful, but can I handle it?"--that feeling. Never

before or since have I had that wonderful feeling of surprise that

Prabhupada always brought to his magic world. This was totally unorganized,

all of this. Prabhupada was leaving it all in Krsna's hands.

 

He had risked everything to come to us. Now he was experiencing the fruits

of Krsna's gifts to him. And we were his dancing white elephants. They even

said that in the newspaper: "He has brought his dancing white elephants." In

an interview Prabhupada had told them, "I have brought my dancing white

elephants." He gave us that name. So they put it in the newspaper.

[laughter]

 

You carry on. I could go on for months!

 

Giriraj Swami: I had met Srila Prabhupada twice in Boston, but being with

him in India was a completely different experience. He was in Calcutta and

was coming from there to meet us in Bombay. We kept getting telegrams saying

when he was coming, but then we would get another telegram saying he was

coming later. And Tamal Krishna Goswami--he had passed through Boston once,

but I'd never really gotten a chance to know him--he was describing to me

how he was anticipating Srila Prabhupada's arrival. He said that it was like

watching a comet in the sky coming closer and closer and waiting for it to

hit.

 

I remember one time Dev Anand, a Hindi film star, came to meet Srila

Prabhupada at Seksaria Bhavan. So we were quite excited, and then two days

later there was a picture in a film magazine, or a general magazine with

news about prominent people, showing Dev Anand sitting with Srila

Prabhupada. So we thought, "Wow--and we've only been here a week!"

 

In America we were used to just doing hari-nama-sankirtana and distributing

books, but in Bombay Srila Prabhupada said that we could not do

hari-nama-sankirtana like that, because people would think that we were

beggars. In India some people go in the streets with karatalas, and they

chant and want to get some money. But at first we did go. Each day, Kailash

Seksaria would arrange a different part of the town, and we would go there.

I especially remember Princess Street in Kalbadevi. It was the old section.

There were all these laborers pulling carts loaded down with big sacks of

grains and spices or whatever and just wearing these little gamshas and

struggling. It looked like they were struggling. India was not very opulent

in one sense. Where we were staying was practically the best locale in

Bombay, Marine Drive, just along the sea.

 

Later one of our godbrothers, Tulasi dasa, came to visit. That was at the

time of the second Bombay pandal, in '73. As he was driving along Marine

Drive, which is like the golden mile, he was wondering, "When do the slums

end?" [laughter] Because from the outside they looked like old tenement

buildings, a little dilapidated. But that also had to do with the tax

structure. The rich people did not want to show their wealth; they were

hiding it. They did not want to pay too much tax, so they kept the outside

looking pretty old and dilapidated, but inside there was gold, diamonds,

marble--very opulent. So we would go out on hari-nama, and Kailash Seksaria

would arrange for a little entourage to follow us with nimbu pani, lime

juice, in silver pitchers on silver platters with silver goblets; I felt so

embarrassed.

 

Shyamasundar das: And servants.

 

Giriraj Swami: Yes. We were in front of all these poor people on the streets

of old Bombay, and we came in these cars. In those days only the richest

people had cars. Then this entourage of servants with nimbu pani would come

out. I felt very embarrassed. Then the preaching . . .

 

Shyamasundar das: Prabhupada was always waiting for the report. Every

evening the leaders had to give him the report of what had happened that

day. This was the most wonderful time of day, delivering your report to

Srila Prabhupada. We would all go in his room, and he would hear what we had

done. We would tell him what had happened, and he would give advice and make

plans for the next day, the next week. There were not many long-term plans,

other than just spreading Krsna consciousness as fast as we could. We were

seeing Prabhupada in a new, different, and wonderful dimension that he just

kept unfolding: as the commander-in-chief. This was a wonderful experience,

to be part of an army that Prabhupada was putting together, as opposed to

before when we had all been on our own in our individual efforts to spread

Krsna consciousness, with Prabhupada guiding us through letters, occasional

phone calls, or telegrams. But this was the real thing. This was sitting

with the commander-in-chief every day.

 

Where did you go from Bombay? You stayed in Bombay?

 

Giriraj Swami: No. Srila Prabhupada had a friend who had established Prem

Kutir, where Prabhupada had stayed before he came to America. This friend's

name was Hare Krishna Das Agarwal. I thought that was wonderful, that his

name was Hare Krishna Das. So, Hare Krishna Das Agarwal arranged for us to

go to the Vedanta Sammelan in Amritsar, but I think you stayed behind. And

from there, on the way back to Bombay, Prabhupada dropped some of us off in

Delhi. So we began the activities in Delhi. And then in December, when

Prabhupada went to attend the Gita Jayanti celebration in Indore, we met him

there. From Indore we went to Surat, and in Surat Rishi Kumar Prabhu, who

was the only devotee I had known from before, pulled me aside and shared

with me some very confidential information--that Srila Prabhupada wanted to

start a new program called life membership and anyone who did life

membership would please him very much. So Rishi Kumar suggested, "Why don't

you and I go to Bombay and meet up with Shyamasundar and do life

membership." That sounded very intriguing. Of course, on the other hand, I

didn't want to leave Srila Prabhupada, and I had also become very attached

to Gurudas and Yamuna. But I thought, "Yes, we should do that."

 

So we came to Bombay, and at that time Shyamasundar Prabhu was living in the

Sea Palace Hotel. They gave us one large room upstairs, where the men

stayed, and maybe one or two rooms for the householders. The hotel was owned

by Ramchand Chabria. I thought that was a good name too. It was a vegetarian

hotel, and he had somehow known Srila Prabhupada and the devotees from

England, from London, and he extended the facility to us.

 

Once, earlier, when Gurudas, Yamuna, Gopala, and Bhakta Bruce (who later

became Bhanu and is now Bhanu Swami), and I were in Delhi, I was walking

down the street, and for some reason I just happened to notice the vendors.

They would have newspapers and magazines on the sidewalk, and I don't know

why, but I just picked one up. And right on the back page was a huge report

about Srila Prabhupada's program on the top of Scindia House in Ballard

Estate, the most prestigious section of the business district, and how

Prabhupada had gone to America penniless, getting free passage on a Scindia

steamship, and then had come back like a triumphant hero with his American

disciples. There was this whole report. I was really impressed; it was

practically the whole back page. So, when I arrived in Bombay Shyamasundar

Prabhu, or someone, had gotten the list of invitees to the Scindia House

program, because Sumati Morarji had invited all the elite of Bombay. I don't

know if it was in the newspaper story I had read or if one of the devotees

had told me, but the guests were like demigods on the terrace of this big

office building, looking down on the ordinary people on the streets.

 

One morning Shyamasundar Prabhu wrote out a name and address on a piece of

paper, "S. N. Nagpal," and he said, "I want you to go to this man and make

him a life member." So I went. He was up in the Industrial Assurance

Building right at Churchgate, near Churchgate station, and he had a

petrol-chemical refinery. I was nervous, but I had faith in Prabhupada, and

I had faith that Krsna was there. So, I went into his office and made the

presentation, told him about our activities and showed him some pictures.

And we had a few books. We showed him the books, explained the benefits, and

asked him to become a life member. He seemed nice enough. He listened and

then he said, "I am not alone in the business. I will have to speak to my

brother, and then I will let you know." I thought that seemed reasonable

enough, so I left. Back at the hotel, Shyamasundar Prabhu asked, "What

happened?" So I told him. He said, "Oh, that's just an excuse. I would have

made him a life member." Then Shyamasundar gave me some very profound

advice. He said, "Mr. Nagpal has plenty of money. He can easily afford to

become a life member. He didn't need to ask his brother, but he had some

doubt in his mind. You have to be intelligent enough to understand what

their doubts are even without them expressing them. You have to be able to

address their concerns. Remove their doubts even without them expressing

them and then they will become life members." I thought that was very good

advice. I thought, "He is really on a high level. He can know what they are

thinking without them even saying it." [laughter]

 

But I must say, five days later Mr. Nagpal phoned back and said, "I spoke to

my brother and I will become your life member." What I think happened--this

I learned much later--is that his residence was in the next apartment

building from Mr. Chabria's and that they were friends, so he might have

checked up on us. Anyway, he did become a life member. He was the first life

member I made.

 

Shyamasundar das: Giriraj at that time was just a young boy. How old were

you--nineteen, twenty?

 

Giriraj Swami: Twenty-two, but maybe I looked younger.

 

Shyamasundar das: Twenty-two--very cautious and deep thinking. It was

amazing to watch Giriraj's transition, as we pushed him, making him do

certain things he had to do for Prabhupada. Prabhupada forced this new

spirit out of you.

 

Giriraj Swami: Yes. Maybe I will just mention that briefly. I was always

afraid to go out; I just wanted to stay back and chant. I was afraid that if

I went out I would get into maya. Not get into maya, but I would get

attracted--not even attracted . . . diverted. Even in Boston if I had to go

the store, if they wanted to send me to the store, I would not go out alone,

because I thought that if I went out my eyes might go to a billboard or

something and that would be a falldown; we were supposed to think only of

Krsna and nothing else. I did not want to be tempted to look at a billboard

or anything. And Bombay, as you said, was full of colors and textures and

smells and all sorts of exotic things. So my inclination was to stay back

and chant and do service from behind the lines, if you will.

 

Shyamasundar Prabhu nudged me out the door. I remember this man whose name

was Vakaria. He had a textile shop on Old Hanuman Lane. I thought that was a

good name too, "Old Hanuman Lane." I was very nervous, and I was taking an

auto rickshaw, sitting in the back chanting for dear life. I was chanting

for dear life, and I was really relishing the chanting. Then I had a

realization, that you could be Krsna conscious out in the world as well as

in the protection of the temple, but that outside there was the added

benefit of spreading the movement. So it just clicked: "This is it. You go

outside. You chant. You be Krsna conscious outside and at the same time you

spread Krsna consciousness. You do both at the same time." That was a

turning point in my spiritual life.

 

Shyamasundar das: Prabhupada forced us against our personalities and normal

hesitations and desires for privacy. He forced us to the front lines. We

would be sitting in some big meeting like this--I am not at all comfortable

speaking in public--and he would say--there might be five thousand people

out there--he would suddenly turn, without any preparation, and say,

"Shyamasundar, you will say something?" [laughter] He forced us like this.

 

I was reading the whole picture, and my perspective was that Prabhupada

wanted centers in Bombay, Delhi, and Calcutta. We could see that, and I

loved Bombay. When I first saw that place, I thought, "Wow, what a city!" It

is close to Los Angeles, equivalent to an L.A. type of city. It is full of

opulence and color and sunshine. There was the movie industry, and

everything that I liked was there. I had heard stories about Delhi and

Calcutta. Oh my God--what people told me about Calcutta! And I knew that he

wanted Gurudasa and me to take over management of one of those places, so I

voluntarily stayed in Bombay to build up a kind of power base so that when

the time came to assign us to different posts (we knew that was coming)

Prabhupada would say, "You stay and head up things in Bombay." I was hoping

for that. [laughter] I had to stay back even though he went traveling to all

these wonderful places. I could have gone to Amritsar, I could have gone to

Indore--all those places with Prabhupada--but I stayed behind and made life

members and built whatever I could there. It came to pass that way because

on their way back from Amritsar, the train they were on stopped in Delhi,

and Prabhupada said to Gurudasa and Yamuna, "You get down here and start the

center in Delhi." I was so happy. I should not say that but . . . [laughter]

Then I knew, "Ah, I get to stay in Bombay."

 

But the key to Bombay was Prabhupada's program of life members. He was so

clever. If you read back in the books, the Lilamrta, you can understand that

Prabhupada's business life had carried him around to all these cities.

Previously, in his middle years, he had done business in Bombay. He had done

business in other cities, but he really liked Bombay. Although his business

was not permanent there, he had always harbored the idea that Bombay should

be the financial center for his spreading of Krsna consciousness in India.

And this was a new idea. Looking back thirty years later, you go to India

and you see Krsna's name everywhere--Krsna bicycle shop, Krsna this, Gopala

that--but in those days you never saw Krsna's name anywhere. Prabhupada

single-handedly in our lifetimes switched the whole consciousness of that

billion-person nation. It is very subtle, but he did it. Except for in

little pockets like Vrndavana, or if there were a few devotees of Krsna in a

little town, Krsna was not a popular god. It was all Siva and Ganapati and

other demigods, all hollow. The temples were unpeopled. Whatever temples

were there were just ancient artifacts that people came to look at.

Prabhupada brought back the spirit of Krsna and fanned the flames to such an

extent that it was magnified hundreds and thousands of times. Now Krsna is

very popular in India. Anything to do with Krsna is popular there. Anyone

who has been to India can see that. Krsna's name is everywhere. Rama and

Sita also, but Krsna was never there to such an extent when we were first

there. So this is Prabhupada's potency.

 

There are so many stories of Prabhupada's potency, how he changed the minds

of people with just a small sentence, a small event. We saw it happen. We

began to be invited from one man's house to another. We gave programs almost

every night. It was a grueling schedule for a seventy-some-year-old man, for

us even, what to speak of a seventy-year-old man. We were in our twenties

and we were always exhausted. But Prabhupada never seemed to flag. Someone

would say, "We have a program tonight at so-and-so's house," and we had just

finished digesting the food from the program that midday. "Oh, okay." So off

we would go again. Prabhupada. We did not have books to distribute. We did

not have much personal knowledge of the scriptures. We had a basic grasp of

the philosophy. So when we spoke it was always very simple: "I am not this

body. I am pure spirit soul.Krsna is the Supreme Personality of Godhead."

That was a new idea in India, that Krsna is the Supreme Personality of

Godhead. They did not even know that; it had been forgotten. And it was so

simple to prove it to them: "Who do you think spoke Bhagavad-gita? It takes

a person to speak Bhagavad-gita, right? You are all following

Bhagavad-gita?Yes.Then who is the person speaking Bhagavad-gita?"

"Well, that is Krsna.Then He is a person, right?Yes." Like that.

Gradually the whole idea of Krsna as a personality became implanted in

India, re-implanted.

 

Prabhupada's energy and vitality seemed to get stronger and stronger with

each day. He was constantly talking to people. People would come. We never

saw him sleep. He would take only a little food. He would encourage us to

eat huge amounts, but he took only a little. These great personalities in

Krsna consciousness whom we know now were just budding young people then,

and we all grew up together in a family with Prabhupada as our father. Of

course, there were down periods when we all felt, "This is too hard for us

to do; this is so hard. I just want to go home, go back were there is a

dishwashing machine and hot water on demand." But the upside of being with

Prabhupada just made everything so easy, so light. Was that your feeling?

 

Giriraj Swami: Yes. Just to add one note, there was one important gentleman

who started to come to see Srila Prabhupada--I think he was the first to

really show interest consistently--named Sadajivatlal. He was physically

very big, a large Punjabi man, and would always wear a nice white dhoti and

kurta with little jeweled studs. He had a chain of almost twenty sweetshops

in Bombay. So Prabhupada gave him the nickname "The Sweetball King." He was

a big businessman, and he was also an important Hindu leader--more of a

Hindu than a Vaisnava--but he could see that Srila Prabhupada was spreading

Hinduism like no one else ever before and he really wanted to support

Prabhupada and ISKCON. Whenever he came we would all get excited because he

was so big and imposing and we wanted to see how Srila Prabhupada would deal

with him.

 

At that time so many people were inviting Srila Prabhupada and the devotees

to do programs at their homes that Prabhupada finally said, "We will not

accept any invitations unless they become life members." So, one man, K. J.

Somaiya, a prominent industrialist and Hindu, got a little annoyed. He

complained about our policy, but in the end he did become a life member.

Srila Prabhupada quipped, "We are making life members simply by eating."

[laughter]

 

One of the programs that I remember best was a midday program at the home of

Ramchand Chabria. He invited a lot of big people, including Sadajivatlal.

Now, Sadajivatlal was, in a nice way, a Hindu chauvinist. And while everyone

was mingling, he somehow sat down next to me and began telling me about the

glories of India's heritage. He just went on about the superiority of Indian

culture, focusing on Indian sweets. He said, "What do you have in America?

Only chocolates and cake--that's it. And we, just from milk and sugar, have

burfi, pera, sandesa, rasagulla, rasamalai, rabri, gulabjamun--more than one

hundred varieties." He just went on and on. "And then with grains there is

halava, malpura, jalebi, laddu, khir . . ." Just on that point he was

completely smashing Western culture and establishing the superiority of

India's. [laughter]

 

So, it was another one of those wonderful feasts. Everything was so well

prepared, relatively light but exquisitely prepared. The table setting, the

serving--everything was done expertly. And the Indian hospitality then was

wonderful. It was very common that after a meal our hosts would invite us to

take rest. They would make all the bedrooms in the house available, and

sometimes Prabhupada would also take a little rest. Of course, he would have

his own room, and we would go into some other room, talk about Srila

Prabhupada, and take some rest. I don't think we could sleep; at least I

couldn't sleep much. On this occasion it was such a great feast and the

hosts were so hospitable that the devotees were really taking good rest.

Prabhupada stayed awake, and after some time he told the hosts, "I think we

have to wake them up now, because if we let them sleep much longer, when

they wake up they will be hungry again." [laughter] "And you will have to

feed them all over again." [laughter]

 

Shyamasundar das: One aspect I recall from those days is that we were

Americans and that many of the devotees who came were from New York and from

the East Coast, which had a really intense modern lifestyle, and here was

poor India that had never seen even Western advertising, what to speak of a

bunch of pushy Western salesmen. Actually, we were just selling life

memberships, but some of the pranks we pulled to advertise Krsna's name

around Bombay and to impress life members were really hilarious. We were not

afraid to go into the biggest offices, because they all seemed so small and

quaint to us after New York and L.A. These so-called big businessmen may

have had millions of dollars, but they lived very simple nineteenth-century

lives. So we would go to see Tata, the biggest businessman in India, or

Birla, or somebody like that, and just storm into his office--three or four

guys from New York: Rishi Kumar and Tamal Krishna and some of these guys.

The secretaries would all go like this: "Oh, no!" [laughter] But "Boom!

Boom! Boom!"--door after door we would go, right to the guy's desk and throw

the papers down and say, "You are becoming a life member." [laughter] And he

would go, "Okay"--just to get rid of us. "And you will make ten of your

friends life members." [laughter] I used to be fearless, because Prabhupada

was like that. He said everything straight-out to his countrymen. He said,

"You are all fallen down. You have forgotten everything. You are copying

these Westerners." He said, "You have a few cars. They have millions. You

will never have as many cars as they have. You will never have as much

opulence as they will. You have your own opulence, and that is your

spiritual knowledge, and you have thrown it in the garbage heap. What is

wrong with you people?" Like that. He just gave it to them straight in the

face. In every one of those meetings where he said that, it was just silence

afterwards, but people knew he was right. Prabhupada was so fearless. And

that same fearlessness spread through us. It even got Giriraj, who was one

of the quietest, most meditative devotees in the whole lot, storming the

streets of Bombay making life members. [laughter]

 

When it came time, in early 1971--we had been in Bombay what, not even a

year . . .

 

Giriraj Swami: Yes; we arrived in October of 1970.

 

Shyamasundar das: Yes, six months, and we thought, "Wow, Prabhupada really

likes doing things big." We had gradually learned a little bit about what

really pleased him. Many things, of course, pleased Prabhupada, but what he

liked most was big events. In the West or in India or anywhere, he liked

Krsna's name to be out there in prominent lights with big displays. So we

had this idea to put on a big festival in the center of Bombay, at Cross

Maidan. There were only about five or six of us; that was it. We were the

only devotees in Bombay, and we had this huge agenda. We had reserved the

grounds, so we had to do it; we were committed. "Wow," we thought, "this

could really get out of hand." But I don't think there was ever a moment

when we didn't think it could be done, because Prabhupada had taught us that

if you take this kind of risk for Krsna, if you push out and try to do more

than you can possibly imagine, Krsna personally has to come and help you.

This is what we wanted. We wanted to see Krsna. So Prabhupada was the

example for that. He came. He risked everything to come to America and do

what he did. So we took up that spirit. Obviously he had seen Krsna by doing

that, and we saw Krsna remove all the obstacles from his path, historically,

and we saw day to day how these obstacles would fall away as Prabhupada

charged forward. We did not have any qualms about it. We just said, "Okay,

we'll put on this festival." I think we spent two lakhs or something. Two

hundred thousand rupees was our budget. We went over about twice, and in

those days that was a huge sum of money.

 

So where were we, six penniless men and women, going to get hold of that

kind of money? Well, Giriraj almost single-handedly went out on the street,

hit the streets and got the money for this whole festival. Tamal Krishna

arranged the pandal and the physical aspects. I did the advertising. And

somehow or other, in March '71, it all came together, and it was the biggest

festival in ISKCON history up to that point, and maybe ever since. Suddenly,

every day, there were ten thousand people at a time hearing the maha-mantra

and realizing what Prabhupada had done in the world. And Prabhupada loved

that festival. Afterwards that was all he could talk about. He said, "Yes,

this is the way. This is the way." So it began a whole series of pandal

programs--in Delhi, in Calcutta, and in other places.

 

But Prabhupada planted that idea in our heads--to do the biggest things we

could possibly imagine without worrying about the consequences, because

Krsna would personally come and help. And we saw it ourselves, time after

time. The permits alone, to get all that stuff together seemed almost

impossible. I think Rishi Kumar did the permits, didn't he?

 

Giriraj Swami: Yes. And Gurudas to some extent was involved in that aspect

of public relations.

 

Shyamasundar das: And almost every time, somebody you couldn't imagine

signing a permit would suddenly get the inspiration to sign the permit. Only

Krsna could have made that happen.

 

Giriraj Swami: Yes.

 

Shyamasundar das: And we made a spectacle like they had never seen before.

They had not yet been exposed to Western advertising techniques. We

plastered all of Bombay with giant billboards that just said, "Hare Krsna"

or "Prabhupada is Coming"--like that--real flashy colors right on the main

intersections throughout the whole city. And we got a big balloon and had it

flying on a string a hundred feet or so above the grounds with "Hare Krsna"

written on it, and flashing lights at night. It was the first time that was

ever done in India. You could see it all over Bombay. They had never seen

anything like it. We situated the pandal strategically, between two train

stations, because in those days most Bombayites went everywhere by train, so

they had to pass by the grounds just to get to their station. The impact was

enormous. Prabhupada was so pleased, and his pleasure was our pleasure. Our

only desire in those days was to see Prabhupada happy. That was our life. If

Prabhupada was pleased, what more was there? Prabhupada's pleasure lit up

the world.

 

Giriraj Swami: I thought what you just said was a perfect conclusion. And

because you gave the introduction, I'll give the epilogue. After the great

success of the Bombay pandal, Srila Prabhupada wanted to repeat the program

in Calcutta, and because Shyamasundar Prabhu was the temple president in

Bombay and was in charge of all the activities there, Srila Prabhupada sent

Tamal Krishna Goswami and me to Calcutta. One evening there, at the same

temple we have now, at 3 Albert Road, Tamal Krishna Goswami and I were

speaking together out on the veranda. The other devotees had gone to take

rest, and soon he began to confide in me. Gurudas and Yamuna did speak to me

a lot in a sort of family way, but he spoke in a very confidential way about

Srila Prabhupada and Prabhupada's relationship with him and with other

devotees. He said that Srila Prabhupada had a few disciples who were

confidential devotees, and I had not known that. To me they were all senior.

Compared to me they were all senior, and Prabhupada loved them all. And then

Goswami Maharaja mentioned himself, and I thought, "Wow, you are one of

them!" I was really impressed, genuinely impressed. Then he started to

glorify Shyamasundar Prabhu, and he said, "Shyamasundar Prabhu is one of the

biggest preachers in the movement." I was surprised when Goswami Maharaja

said that, because I had not heard Shyamasundar give class much. I don't

know if I'd ever heard him give class. So I said, "What do you mean? I don't

think I've heard him give even one class." And Goswami said, "Preaching

doesn't mean just speaking about Krsna. Preaching really means engaging

people in Krsna's service, and by these huge programs that Shyamasundar

Prabhu has organized--the Cross Maidan pandal and the life membership

program--he has engaged so many people in Krsna's service. He has made such

a tremendous impact. So he is one of the biggest preachers in the whole

movement." That was what Tamal Krishna Goswami said, and I accept that even

now.

 

The other thing Tamal Krishna told me was his realization: The secret of

advancement in spiritual life is service to the spiritual master. And that

also struck me, because at the time I was so new. I had read about chanting,

studying Bhagavad-gita and Srimad-Bhagavatam, and worshiping the deities--I

had heard about all these things--and doing service, working, doing service,

but to me they were all the same. There was no hierarchy. And when he said

that--"service to the spiritual master"--that struck me. Somehow that went

into my heart, and then it became the focal point, as it was for you

[looking at Shyamasundar Prabhu] already. From then on, I would chant, but

it was so I could serve Prabhupada better. I would read so I could

understand the mission better, the philosophy better, so that I could be a

better servant of Srila Prabhupada.

 

So here he is, one of the biggest preachers in the whole movement. He

recently organized another huge pandal program right at the same place, at

Cross Maidan in Bombay, and he is even thinking that we have to do something

here. It's an idea. But that's how it all starts.

 

Shyamasundar Prabhu ki jaya! [applause]

Srila Prabhupada ki jaya!