Guest guest Posted October 26, 2006 Report Share Posted October 26, 2006 Who is Jesus? Without a doubt, you have often heard the claim that Jesus is God, the second person in the "Holy trinity." However, the very Bible which is used as a basis for knowledge about Jesus and as the basis for doctrine within Christianity clearly belies this claim. We urge you to consult your own Bible and verify that the following conclusions are not drawn out of context: 1. God is All Knowing.....but Jesus was not When speaking of the day of judgment, Jesus clearly gave evidence of a limitation on his knowledge when he said, "but of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in Heaven, neither the son, but the Father." Mark 13:32, and Matt 24:36. But God knows all. His knowledge is without any limitations. That Jesus, of his own admission, did not know when the day of judgment would be, is clear proof that Jesus is not all-knowing, and that Jesus is therefore not God. 2. God is All Powerful.....but Jesus was not While Jesus performed many miracles, he himself admitted that the power he had was not his own but was derived from God when he said, "Verily, verily I say unto you, the Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father do..." St. John 5:19. Again he said, "I can of mine own self do nothing: as I hear I judge: and my judgment is just; because I seek not mine own will, but the will of the Father which hath sent me." St. John 5:30. But God is not only all-powerful, He is also the source of all power and authority. That Jesus, of his own admission, could do nothing on his own is clear proof that Jesus is not all-powerful, and that therefore Jesus is not God. 3. God does not have a God.....but Jesus did have a God. God is the ultimate judge and refuge for all, and He does not call upon nor pray to any others. But Jesus acknowledged that there was one whom he worshipped and to whom he prayed when he said, "l ascend unto my Father and your Father, and to my God and your God." St. John 20:17. He is also reported to have cried out while on the cross, "My God, my God why hast thou forsaken me?" Matt 27:46. If Jesus were God, then couldn't this be read, "Myself, myself why hast thou forsaken me?" Would that not be pure nonsense? When Jesus prayed the Lord's prayer (Luke 11:2-4), was he praying to himself? When in the garden of Gethsemane he prayed, "O my Father, if it be possible, let this cup pass from me: Nevertheless not as I will but as thou wilt." Matt 26:36-39. Was Jesus praying to himself? That Jesus, of his own admission and by his own actions, acknowledged, worshipped, and prayed to another being as God is clear proof that Jesus himself is not God. 4. God is an invisible spirit.....but Jesus was flesh and blood While thousands saw Jesus and heard his voice, Jesus himself said that this could not be done with God when he said. "No man hath seen God at any time." St. John 1:18. '"Ye have neither heard His voice at any time nor seen His shape." St. John 5:37. He also said in St. John 4:24. "God is a spirit and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth." That Jesus would say that no one had seen or heard God at any time, while his followers both saw and heard him, is clear proof that Jesus was not God. 5. No one is greater than God and no one can direct Him but Jesus acknowledged someone greater than himself whose will was distinct from his own. Perhaps the clearest indication we have that Jesus and God are not equal, and therefore not one and the same, come again from the mouth of Jesus himself who said in St. John 14:28, "My Father is greater than I." When someone referred to him as good master in Matt 19:17, Jesus responded, "Why callest thou me good? There is none good but one, that is God..." Furthermore, Jesus drew clear distinctions between himself and God when he said, "I proceeded forth and came from God, neither came I of myself but He sent me." St. John 8:42. Jesus gave clear evidence of his subordination to God, rather than his equality with God,when he said in Luke 22:42, "not my will but thine be done" and in St. John 5:30, "I seek not mine own will but the will of the Father which hath sent me." That Jesus would admit that he did not come into the world on his own initiative but was directed to do so, that he would acknowledge another being as greater than himself, and that he would negate his own will in deference to affirming the will of another, give clear proof that Jesus is not the Supreme One and therefore Jesus is not God. Conclusion The Church recognizes the Bible as the primary source of knowledge about God and Jesus. But since the Bible makes it clear that Jesus is not the Supreme Being and the Supreme Being is not Jesus, upon what basis have you come to believe otherwise? My brother or sister, the belief that the Supreme Being is a Trinity is false and completely inconsistent with the words of Jesus as presented in the Bible. God is one, not three. He is a perfect unity. If you are interested in the truth about God and your relationship to Him, we invite you to investigate the religion of Islam. What is the word of God about Jesus: A. Regarding Sonship of Jesus: That is Jesus, son of Mary, in word of truth, concerning which they are doubting. It is not for God to take a son unto Him. Glory be to Him! When He decrees a thing he but says to it "Be", and it is. (Qur'an 19:34,35). And they say, 'The All-merciful has taken unto Himself a son.' You have indeed advanced something hideous. The heavens are well nigh rent of it and the earth split asunder, and the mountains well nigh fall down crashing for that they have attributed to the All-Merciful a son; and it behoves not the All-Merciful to take a son. None is there in the heavens and earth but comes to the All-Merciful as a servant (Qur'an 19:88-93). Truly the likeness of Jesus, in God's sight, is as Adam's likeness; He created him of dust, then said He unto him, "Be", and he was. (Qur'an 3:59). People of the Book, go not beyond the bounds in your religion, and say not as to God but the Truth. The Messiah, Jesus, son of Mary, was only the Messenger of God, and His Word that He committed to Mary, and a spirit from Him. So believe in God and His Messengers. and say not, 'Three', Refrain, better is it for you. God is only One God. Glory be on Him - that He should have a son! To Him belongs that which is in the heavens and on the earth, God suffices for a guardian. (Qur'an 4:171) B. Regarding Jesus being God: And when God said. 'O Jesus son of Mary,did you say unto men, "Take me and my mother as gods, apart from God?" He Said, 'To You be Glory! It is not mine to say what I have no right to. If I indeed said it, You knew it, knowing what is within my soul, and I do not know what is within Your soul; You know the things unseen. I only said to them what You did command me: "Serve God, my Lord and your Lord." And I was a witness over them, while I remained among them; but when You did take me to Yourself the Watcher over them; You are the witness of everything. (Quran 5:116,117) C. Regarding Crucifiction of Jesus: And for their unbelief, and their uttering against Mary a mighty calumny, and for their saying, 'We slew the Messiah, Jesus son of Mary, the Messenger of God'...yet they did not slay him, neither crucified him, only a likeness of that was shown to them. Those who are at variance concerning him surely are in doubt regarding him, they have no knowledge of him, except the following of surmise; and they did not slay him of certainty... no indeed, God raised him up to Him; God is Almighty, All-Wise. There is not one of the people of the Book but will assuredly believe in him before his death, and on the Resurrection Day he will be a witness against them. (Qur'an 4:156-159) We advise you visiting : http://www.islam-guide.com/ http://www.thetruereligion.org/ http://www.it-is-truth.org/ http://www.beconvinced.com/ http://www.plaintruth.org/ http://english.islamway.com/ http://www.todayislam.com/ http://www.prophetmuhammed.org/ http://www.islamtoday.net/english/ http://www.islamunveiled.org/ http://www.islamic-knowledge.com/ We willingly recive any inquries at the e-mail : muslim5 (AT) hotmail (DOT) com http://www.islam-qa.com Or http://www.islam-online.net/ Or http://www.al-islam.com/ Or http://www.al-sunnah.com/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 27, 2006 Report Share Posted October 27, 2006 asslam Walikum brother, Speaking of how is God and how to reach him/her/it you might a book very interesting, other than the Holy Koran. It's called 'How to reach God' by Deepak Chopra. Also, seems you are hinting at the idea of one God/ Godly consciousness instead of multiple forms. This is what the Non Dual ( Advaita) philosophy says too. That one undivided reality can be called by many names. We human beings differ on those names and forms and get insistent and righteous about our preferences forgetting that God is not a insecure paranoid being who would get offended if worshipped in some other way too or for that matter not worshipped at all. They say God created man in his image. The truth is perhaps reverse. Man has created God in his image. We project our insecure personalities onto HIm and consider him as a certain way. The vedic culture says Ekam Sadripa Bahuda vadanti, HE is one, but is called by the wise with different name. Check out the Advaita though. If you want to call 'that or 'it' or 'Him' by the name Allah, that's great too, as long as you allow others to call him by the names they prefer. After all Allah must have been around even before the Holy Koran was written just about 1300 years back. Welcome to this forum. If you want to post your birth data, someone might even analyse your chart and give you further pointers on how to serve Allah better. best regards Praise be to Allah Shiv vedic astrology, "alaa_nooraldein" <alaa_nooraldein wrote: > > Who is Jesus? > > Without a doubt, you have often heard the claim that Jesus is God, > the second person in the "Holy trinity." However, the very Bible > which is used as a basis for knowledge about Jesus and as the basis > for doctrine within Christianity clearly belies this claim. We urge > you to consult your own Bible and verify that the following > conclusions are not drawn out of context: > > 1. God is All Knowing.....but Jesus was not > When speaking of the day of judgment, Jesus clearly gave evidence of > a limitation on his knowledge when he said, "but of that day and > hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in Heaven, neither > the son, but the Father." Mark 13:32, and Matt 24:36. But God knows > all. His knowledge is without any limitations. That Jesus, of his > own admission, did not know when the day of judgment would be, is > clear proof that Jesus is not all-knowing, and that Jesus is > therefore not God. > > 2. God is All Powerful.....but Jesus was not > While Jesus performed many miracles, he himself admitted that the > power he had was not his own but was derived from God when he > said, "Verily, verily I say unto you, the Son can do nothing of > himself, but what he seeth the Father do..." St. John 5:19. Again he > said, "I can of mine own self do nothing: as I hear I judge: and my > judgment is just; because I seek not mine own will, but the will of > the Father which hath sent me." St. John 5:30. But God is not only > all-powerful, He is also the source of all power and authority. That > Jesus, of his own admission, could do nothing on his own is clear > proof that Jesus is not all-powerful, and that therefore Jesus is > not God. > > 3. God does not have a God.....but Jesus did have a God. > God is the ultimate judge and refuge for all, and He does not call > upon nor pray to any others. But Jesus acknowledged that there was > one whom he worshipped and to whom he prayed when he said, "l ascend > unto my Father and your Father, and to my God and your God." St. > John 20:17. He is also reported to have cried out while on the > cross, "My God, my God why hast thou forsaken me?" Matt 27:46. If > Jesus were God, then couldn't this be read, "Myself, myself why hast > thou forsaken me?" Would that not be pure nonsense? When Jesus > prayed the Lord's prayer (Luke 11:2-4), was he praying to himself? > When in the garden of Gethsemane he prayed, "O my Father, if it be > possible, let this cup pass from me: Nevertheless not as I will but > as thou wilt." Matt 26:36-39. Was Jesus praying to himself? That > Jesus, of his own admission and by his own actions, acknowledged, > worshipped, and prayed to another being as God is clear proof that > Jesus himself is not God. > > 4. God is an invisible spirit.....but Jesus was flesh and blood > While thousands saw Jesus and heard his voice, Jesus himself said > that this could not be done with God when he said. "No man hath seen > God at any time." St. John 1:18. '"Ye have neither heard His voice > at any time nor seen His shape." St. John 5:37. He also said in St. > John 4:24. "God is a spirit and they that worship him must worship > him in spirit and in truth." That Jesus would say that no one had > seen or heard God at any time, while his followers both saw and > heard him, is clear proof that Jesus was not God. > > 5. No one is greater than God and no one can direct Him but Jesus > acknowledged someone greater than himself whose will was distinct > from his own. > Perhaps the clearest indication we have that Jesus and God are not > equal, and therefore not one and the same, come again from the mouth > of Jesus himself who said in St. John 14:28, "My Father is greater > than I." When someone referred to him as good master in Matt 19:17, > Jesus responded, "Why callest thou me good? There is none good but > one, that is God..." Furthermore, Jesus drew clear distinctions > between himself and God when he said, "I proceeded forth and came > from God, neither came I of myself but He sent me." St. John 8:42. > Jesus gave clear evidence of his subordination to God, rather than > his equality with God,when he said in Luke 22:42, "not my will but > thine be done" and in St. John 5:30, "I seek not mine own will but > the will of the Father which hath sent me." That Jesus would admit > that he did not come into the world on his own initiative but was > directed to do so, that he would acknowledge another being as > greater than himself, and that he would negate his own will in > deference to affirming the will of another, give clear proof that > Jesus is not the Supreme One and therefore Jesus is not God. > > Conclusion > The Church recognizes the Bible as the primary source of knowledge > about God and Jesus. But since the Bible makes it clear that Jesus > is not the Supreme Being and the Supreme Being is not Jesus, upon > what basis have you come to believe otherwise? > > My brother or sister, the belief that the Supreme Being is a Trinity > is false and completely inconsistent with the words of Jesus as > presented in the Bible. God is one, not three. He is a perfect > unity. > > If you are interested in the truth about God and your relationship > to Him, we invite you to investigate the religion of Islam. > > > What is the word of God about Jesus: > > A. Regarding Sonship of Jesus: > That is Jesus, son of Mary, in word of truth, concerning which they > are doubting. It is not for God to take a son unto Him. Glory be to > Him! When He decrees a thing he but says to it "Be", and it is. > (Qur'an 19:34,35). > > And they say, 'The All-merciful has taken unto Himself a son.' You > have indeed advanced something hideous. The heavens are well nigh > rent of it and the earth split asunder, and the mountains well nigh > fall down crashing for that they have attributed to the All-Merciful > a son; and it behoves not the All-Merciful to take a son. None is > there in the heavens and earth but comes to the All-Merciful as a > servant (Qur'an 19:88-93). > > Truly the likeness of Jesus, in God's sight, is as Adam's likeness; > He created him of dust, then said He unto him, "Be", and he was. > (Qur'an 3:59). > > People of the Book, go not beyond the bounds in your religion, and > say not as to God but the Truth. The Messiah, Jesus, son of Mary, > was only the Messenger of God, and His Word that He committed to > Mary, and a spirit from Him. So believe in God and His Messengers. > and say not, 'Three', Refrain, better is it for you. God is only One > God. Glory be on Him - that He should have a son! To Him belongs > that which is in the heavens and on the earth, God suffices for a > guardian. (Qur'an 4:171) > > B. Regarding Jesus being God: > And when God said. 'O Jesus son of Mary,did you say unto men, "Take > me and my mother as gods, apart from God?" He Said, 'To You be > Glory! It is not mine to say what I have no right to. If I indeed > said it, You knew it, knowing what is within my soul, and I do not > know what is within Your soul; You know the things unseen. I only > said to them what You did command me: "Serve God, my Lord and your > Lord." And I was a witness over them, while I remained among them; > but when You did take me to Yourself the Watcher over them; You are > the witness of everything. (Quran 5:116,117) > > C. Regarding Crucifiction of Jesus: > And for their unbelief, and their uttering against Mary a mighty > calumny, and for their saying, 'We slew the Messiah, Jesus son of > Mary, the Messenger of God'...yet they did not slay him, neither > crucified him, only a likeness of that was shown to them. Those who > are at variance concerning him surely are in doubt regarding him, > they have no knowledge of him, except the following of surmise; and > they did not slay him of certainty... no indeed, God raised him up > to Him; God is Almighty, All-Wise. There is not one of the people of > the Book but will assuredly believe in him before his death, and on > the Resurrection Day he will be a witness against them. (Qur'an > 4:156-159) > > > > > We advise you visiting : > http://www.islam-guide.com/ > http://www.thetruereligion.org/ > http://www.it-is-truth.org/ > http://www.beconvinced.com/ > http://www.plaintruth.org/ > http://english.islamway.com/ > http://www.todayislam.com/ > http://www.prophetmuhammed.org/ > http://www.islamtoday.net/english/ > http://www.islamunveiled.org/ > http://www.islamic-knowledge.com/ > > We willingly recive any inquries at the e-mail : > > muslim5 > > http://www.islam-qa.com > > > > Or > > http://www.islam-online.net/ > > Or > > http://www.al-islam.com/ > > Or > > http://www.al-sunnah.com/ > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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