'Shraddha'

[Guest guest]

Thank you Ananada-ji for this enlightening installment on shraddha

in your own 'inimitable' style !

 

i particularly resonated with these words in the poem

 

That living truth is only reached

by learning from a teacher who

is found to be established there.

 

Where such a teacher has been found,

that individual teacher here

expresses truth and stands for truth,

beyond all instituted schools.

 

Yes! Indeed! There are certain qualifications for a Sadguru! Every

Tom, dick and Harry cannot be a Sadguru !

 

In this context, please allow me to share a favorite Sloka on Guru

which goes like this

 

Brahmaanandham Parama Sukhadam

Kevalam Jnaana Murthim

Dhvandhvaa Theetham Gagana Sadhrisham

Tathvam Asyaadi Lakshyam

Ekam Nithyam Vimalam Achalam

Sarvadhee Saakshi Bhutham

Bhavaatheetham Thriguna Rahitham

Sadhgurum Tham Namaami.

 

Meaning: This sloka tries to describe the qualities of a true Guru.

A real Guru has the following qualities. He experiences the supreme

Bliss of Brahmaananda (transcedental divine bliss). He enjoys and

confers changeless supreme happiness. He is beyond space and time

(there is nothing higher than him). He is the embodiment of wisdom

which is the basis for all types of knowledge. He transcends the

pair of opposites (such as happiness and sorrow, gain and loss). He

is more Omnipresent than space itself. He is the very embodiment of

the Divine principle, which is the inner meaning of the four great

pronouncements Prajnaanam Brahma, Aham Brahmasmi, Thath Thvam Asi

and Ayam Aathma Brahma. He is One without a second (ekam). He never

changes under any circumstances (nithyam). He is without any type of

impurity (vimalam). He is steady and motionless(achalam). He is the

witness of everything. He transcends mental comprehension and verbal

explanation. He is beyond the three gunas (sathva, rajas and

thamas). I offer my humble salutations to such a Guru who possesses

all these qualities.

 

http://www.eaisai.com/baba/docs/slguru.html

 

But in this Kali yuga , it is hard to find a Guru who has all the

above qualifications. There are Gurus and Psuedo gurus . One has to

be circumspect in choosing one's guru. But until time one such finds

a sadguru, we can always meditate on the form Of Sri DAKSHINAMURTHY

who will lead us to the Sad guru ! Again, it is all a matter of

faith .

 

Ekalavya worshipped the stone image ofhis manasika Guru

Dronacharya and learned the fine art of Archery by his sheer faith

(shraddha) , perseverance and dilligence. So much so, Ekalavya

became a living threat to Dronacharya's favorite disciple , Arjuna.

When Guru Dronacharya demanded the 'THUMB' of Ekalavya's right hand

as Guru Dakshina , Ekalaya offered that 'thumb' without a moment of

hesitation knowing fully well that it might prevent him practicing

Archery! Such Sisyas are 'rare' in this modern age .

 

When we have fake gurus such as 'Osho' ( bhagwan Rajneesh - as much

as i adore some of his writings and commonsense approach to

spirituality ) , how can we have genuine 'shraddha' in the Guru!

Such gurus give gurudom a bad 'name' ! Anyday, i would prefer to sit

in front of a picture of Sri RAMANA BHAGWAN and meditate - Sri

Ramana is no longer there in body - but i can still connect to this

great saint via his image - for He is beyond form and name ! Even

when he Was alive , Sri Ramana was beyond body-mind-inte;;ect

complex!

 

Ananda-ji goes on to write

 

 

>From standing in that truth alone,

the teacher speaks through just those forms

that suit the current circumstance

of a disciple, who now asks

(reflecting back from circumstance)

for truth from which the asking comes.

 

Just as there are different grades of teachers , there are different

levels of disciples . Ananda-ji, all five fingers are not alike !

Similarly students come in different sizes and shapes. The only

prerequisite for a student is to always approach a true sadguru in a

mode of humility and reverance - ask questions by all means - but

not in a challenging tone or argumentative fashion but with a

genuine desire to learn the teachings from a teacher established in

Truth ! Vidya (knowledge )and Vinaya ( humility) always go hand in

hand .

 

Humility does not mean false modesty -real humility has as element

of reverance in it .

 

In this context, may i please recal the first verse of ADI SHANKARA

bhagvadapada's 'shatpadi stotra?

 

Avinayam apanaya vishno

Damaya manah samaya vishaya mriga-trishnaam;

Boota dayaam vistaaraya

Taaraya samsaara saagaratah

 

In this first verse of the Shatpadee Stotra, Sri Adi Sankara prays

to Lord Vishnu to remove Avinaya, evils like arrogance, which are

opposite qualities to Vinaya. Vinaya is an accretion that comes to

be attached to persons, and if that is removed, Vinaya will express

itself naturally. Then Sri Adi Sankara prays to Vishnu Bhagwan to

keep his mind under control (Damaya manah). When the mind is brought

under control, it will cease to race after transient pleasures, and

will remain steady in the thought of God. The next prayer is to

eradicate the desires prompted by the senses. (Samaya vishaya

mrigatrishnaam) when we no longer hanker after worldly pleasures.

Our heart begins to beat in harmony with the rest of the world, and

we acquire a broad and sympathetic outlook. So Sri Adi Sankara next

prays to enlarge his compassion for all creation (Bhoota dayaam

vistraaraya). When the mind is so elevated spiritually step by step,

the inevitable result will be the end of birth and death or the

crossing of the ocean of Samsaara. So he prays, Taaraya samsara

saagaratah.

 

( MAHA PERIYAVAAL'S EXPLANATION )

 

May i please add to Sri ANANDA-JI'S brilliant post that when you

have found such a Sadguru , He is Truth , Consciousness and bliss

Sat--chit-Ananda !

 

Salutations to the Sadguru !

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

advaitin, Ananda Wood <awood wrote:

>

> Namaste,

>

> In view of the ongoing discussions about 'shraddha', it may help to

> clarify a distinction between 'belief' and 'faith'.

>

> In English, the word 'belief' is derived from the older 'leave',

> which means 'permission' (as in 'by your leave'). And there is a

> further connection here with the word 'love' (related to the

> Sanskrit 'lubh' meaning 'to long for' or 'to desire eagerly'). This

> etymology associates 'belief' with an emotional permission. What we

> believe is what our heads are permitted to think or to conceive, by

> emotions that arise from fond affection in the heart.

>

>

[Guest guest]

Namaste Shrimati Dhyanasaraswati,

 

In message #33934 of Oct 28, you write: "But in this Kali yuga , it

is hard to find a Guru who has all the above qualifications. There

are Gurus and Pseudo gurus."

 

There is an interesting discussion of this problem in the Kanchi

Mahasvami's book 'The Guru tradition'. Here is what he says:

 

"The problem is about the other guru [the spiritual guru] whose

function it is to purify our Self and help us to attain mokSha or

salvation. How can we believe that he is a guru who is total or

pUrNa in all respects? What do we do when we come to know that he

has shortcomings? We took him for our guru and if we leave him now

in the belief that he is not a man of character, will it mean

disloyalty to him? Will we be guilty of committing a sin? On the

other hand, suppose we have gone wrong in thinking him to be a man

lacking in character?

 

"I will tell you what I feel we should do when faced with such a

dilemma? (In my proposal to face the dilemma) I am withdrawing the

statement I made earlier about the qualifications required for a

guru. I now ask you not to worry about these qualifications at

all....

 

"We felt the need for a guru and sought him. We went to him for

refuge, believing him to be pure of character and complete in every

respect.... Now that we have doubts about him, what do we do?...

After becoming the disciple of the present guru, how can we leave

him and go to another? Will it not be disloyalty or gurudroha, akin

to a wife's unfaithfulness to her husband?

 

"The only solution in such a situation, it seems to me, is not to

worry about the guru's qualifications....

 

"After we find refuge under a guru, we must serve him untiringly. We

should not bother about what he is like and our devotion for him

must be unwavering throughout. If we do so, Ishvara himself will,

through him, make us pure within and bestow jnyAna on us. Whether or

not the guru himself attains mokSha, we will.

 

"The world will perhaps ridicule us for being devoted to a guru of

bad habits. Never mind if it does. Never mind if we come to lose

anything. In the end we will have the supreme recompense. Without

caring for our own profit or loss and without caring for personal

honour or dishonour, if we surrender to someone in full faith,

Ishvara will give us the supreme and ultimate gain of Atma-jnyAna.

What we regard as profit or loss is not in reality of an enduring

nature but ephemeral in character. We may care for profit and loss

in other matters. But we must go to the guru for refuge without

caring for any gain or loss....

 

"It is our duty to look for a guru. If we, in this quest, look for a

great man it is because we want to feel assured about him for all

time. But if we dedicate ourselves wholeheartedly to our guru

without worrying about his qualities, it is immaterial who he

is...."

 

As I understand the Kanci Mahasvami here, he is pointing to one of

those inherent problems that must always defeat the intellect --

when attempting to make judgements about faith and devotion, which

are essentially beyond it.

 

Ananda

[Guest guest]

advaitin, Ananda Wood <awood wrote:

>

> Namaste Shrimati Dhyanasaraswati,

>

> In message #33934 of Oct 28, you write: "But in this Kali yuga , it

> is hard to find a Guru who has all the above qualifications. There

> are Gurus and Pseudo gurus."

>

> There is an interesting discussion of this problem in the Kanchi

> Mahasvami's book 'The Guru tradition'. Here is what he says:

>>

> As I understand the Kanci Mahasvami here, he is pointing to one of

> those inherent problems that must always defeat the intellect --

> when attempting to make judgements about faith and devotion, which

> are essentially beyond it.

>

> Ananda

>

 

 

Namaste

 

Thanks, Ananda-ji, for the right quote from Kanchi Mahaswamigal's

speeches. One can also refer to Section 60 of the advaita-sAdhanA

pdf document in the files section on page 172 under the heading: "Is

an enlightened guru available?".

 

PraNAms to all advitins.

profvk

[Guest guest]

Ananda-ji,

 

here is the article that appeared in Hindu soon after that infamous

Guru was arrested for his clandestine activities . The full details

are not disclosed in the article because of the nature of the criminal

activity involved to a minor girl !

 

http://www.hindu.com/2005/04/26/stories/2005042613510300.htm

 

Needless to say, this has been a great shock to our entire family and

ahs opened our eyes to those so called 'holy' men who are fooling

gullible people ! we also know what happened to one 'Kalki' bhagwan

who had a large following . so, Ananda-ji, would you not agree that we

should look into the Guru lineage before accepting anyone as our

guru ? i feel very safe in the lineage of adi shankara bhagvadapada -

 

As far as Sri Ramana is concerned , he lives in his teachings .

 

regards

[Guest guest]

advaitin, Ananda Wood <awood wrote:

>

> Namaste Shrimati Dhyanasaraswati,

> "After we find refuge under a guru, we must serve him untiringly.

We

> should not bother about what he is like and our devotion for him

> must be unwavering throughout. If we do so, Ishvara himself will,

> through him, make us pure within and bestow jnyAna on us. Whether

or

> not the guru himself attains mokSha, we will.

>

 

ShrIgurubhyo namaH

Namaste all sadhakas,

 

The spirit underlying the above message is surely commendable. The

additional information Prof.VK ji gave about 'Is an Enlightened Guru

available?' is truly revealing. May i add a few wrods to this topic

without being in the least contradictory of any view?

 

For a disciple his Guru is a role model. He looks up to the Guru

for amending and shaping his own character. In such a situation,

would it not be dangerous to be under a Guru whose character has

become questionable? The disciple will be risking his own spiritual

progress if he continues to be influenced by such a Guru. May i

quote a portion of an old post of mine (msg. No. 31125 dt. 30th

April 2006)?

 

// TadvijnAnArtham sa gurumevAbhigacchet , samitpANiH shrotriyam

BrahmanishTham.

(For knowing that Reality, he should go with sacrificial faggots in

hand to a teacher versed in the Veda and absorbed in Brahman.)

 

The disciple must serve his Guru sincerely, be eager to learn from

him and satisfy him. The Guru must be a knower of the Truth. With

reference to a Guru who is not and who goes astray, it is said:

 

Gurorapyavaliptasya kAryAkAryamajAnataH |

Utpatham pratipannasya parityAgo vidhIyate ||

 

(The Guru who is defiled, does not cognise what is proper and

improper and treads the wrong path must be discarded.)

 

The very scripture that says that the Guru must be served with great

sincerity also says that the Guru must be discarded. It seems that

there is a contradiction. Actually, there is none. Serving and

obeying a Guru is the rule while discarding him is the exception.

We can now consider an example of a scriptural rule and its

exception.//

 

This post evoked a response from a member Sri Terothmadom Shrivatsa

in his msg no. 31132 asking for the source of this quote. The

Group Moderators provided the same by their msg. no. 31134.

 

A disciple, strong in discipline, will not be affected by the Guru's

wrongdoings. He may even be a source of inspiration for such a

Guru's turnaround.

 

A saying of Sri Ramakrishna Paramahamsa is pertinent in this

context: A small, teder plant requires all the fencing to protect it

from foraging animals. However, when it has grown into a huge tree,

such fencing will not be required. Even if an elephant is chained

to it, there will be no harm to the tree.

 

With humble pranams to all,

subbu

Om Tat Sat

[Guest guest]

Dear Ananda-ji

Pranams

It would seem to me that you are differentiating

shraddha into two

 

a. a faith that there is an underlying truth that is

being conveyed by words, teachings, preachings etc,

the latter themselves being subject to change

and

b. a faith in the means to that truth (- to me the

means is the Shruti, to someones else it may be koans,

to another it may be devotion to a personal

God-in-heaven.)

 

My sense from your musings is that the former is what

is true faith.

 

Let us take a discriminating person who in and through

the changing kaleidoscope of life has shraddha in an

underlying blemishless Truth which he now wants to

seek.

 

He has a conviction in the existence of this truth. He

needs a means to get to that truth. Let us say the

means he chooses [fortunately for him] is Vedanta.

 

Without shraddha in the means, will not his shraddha

in the end (the truth) be rendered unfruitful?

 

Only with shraddha that he has the right means and

more importantly the only means to get to the end he

truly believes in can he entertain a true hope of

emancipation.

 

If outward forms are liable to get corrupted, as you

suggest, what to speak then of individuals who make

claims to be established in that truth - they are

manifold times more likely to be corrupt or worse

blatantly untrue.

 

Unless there is shraddha in a teaching (Shruti) and in

the methodology to that teaching (sampradaya) that has

been wellestablished and has stood the test of the

ravages of thousands of years firmly in place, in the

form of a living sampradaya, mere shraddha in a Guru

who says he has found the Truth, or in the Truth

itself may not work.

 

Humble pranams

Hari OM

Shyam

 

--- Ananda Wood <awood (AT) vsnl (DOT) com> wrote:

 

 

>

> Such outward forms are indirect.

> They are thus liable to get

> corrupted as they are passed on --

>

> through personal and cultural

> conventions which must somehow be

> interpreted, to understand

> the meaning that these forms convey.

>

> With outward forms thus found to be

> corruptible and indirect,

> how can true faith apply to them?

>

> When what is taken to be faith

> is found applied to nothing more

> than what hands write or mouths recite,

> then is it right to call this 'faith'?

>

> Is this not merely blind belief

> in written or recited forms,

> without the faith to ask more truly

> what it is that's meant by them?

>

> To ask for knowledge thus expressed,

> all questions must be turned within,

> reflecting back from outward show

> of differentiated forms

> affected by corrupting change.

 

> That living truth is only reached

> by learning from a teacher who

> is found to be established there.

 

 

 

 

 

Everyone is raving about the all-new Mail

(http://advision.webevents./mailbeta/)

[Guest guest]

Namaste Shri Shyam, Professor V. Krishnamurthy and Shrimati

Dhyanasaraswati,

 

In message #33954 of Oct 31, Shri Shyam writes:

 

"Let us take a discriminating person who ... has shraddha in an

underlying blemishless Truth.... He needs a means to get to that

truth....

 

"Without shraddha in the means, will not his shraddha in the end

(the truth) be rendered unfruitful?...

 

"If outward forms are liable to get corrupted, as you suggest, what

to speak then of individuals who make claims to be established in

that truth - they are manifold times more likely to be corrupt or

worse blatantly untrue.

 

"Unless there is shraddha in a teaching (Shruti) and in the

methodology to that teaching (sampradaya) that has been

well-established and has stood the test of the ravages of thousands

of years firmly in place, in the form of a living sampradaya, mere

shraddha in a Guru who says he has found the Truth, or in the Truth

itself may not work."

 

Yes, thank you, Shri Shyam, for pointing out that any shraddha in

mere means is inherently problematic. A problem arises whenever

shraddha is directed to a means of expression, at the expense of any

distraction from the underlying truth that is expressed.

 

And as you say, different problems arise from differing means of

expression. Where the expression is an instituted text, the problem

is one of cultural corruption, as texts are transmitted and

interpreted in changing times. Where the expression is a living

teacher, the problem is one of personal corruption, on the part of

both teacher and disciple.

 

About cultural corruption, I'd say it is endemic to all

institutions. It's only individuals that can be realized and thus

free of corruption. No institution can attain to such an

incorruptible realization. Advaitic institutions may have been

well-established by realized individuals like Shri Shankara, but

afterwards these institutions have been liable to a cultural

corruption from which they have to be revived by living individuals

like the Kanci Mahasvami.

 

In 'The Guru Tradition', the Kanci Mahasvami says: "It is when the

guru is on his own as an individual, without the backing of an

institution, that he has greater reason to remain pure of heart and

mind. I make this statement in spite of the fact that I myself head

an institution and have the title of 'Acarya'.... I, who praise

Shankaracarya for his work of institutionalisation, at the same time

support the system of individual acaryas (teachers without the

backing of an institution."

 

Concerning Shri Shankara's institutional work, the Mahasvami says

that it "must be described as a necessary evil: a lesser evil with

which it became necessary to repulse a bigger evil." The lesser evil

is the instituted transmission of Shri Shankara's texts and the

founding of his sannyasi mathas, which have served historically to

repel the greater evil of a decline of advaita culture from within

and an ensuing weakness to disruptive attack by aggressive

institutions from outside.

 

When the Mahasvami speaks thus, of instituted teaching as a 'lesser

evil', I take him to mean that it can help to a relative degree, by

providing a cultural preparation that is conducive to advaita

realization. But it inherently involves a degree of corrupting evil

which remains to be overcome, by reflecting back from all instituted

forms to an inner individuality that is beyond them.

 

Then how can all corruption be fully overcome, so as to attain a

final realization? In the Mahasvami's 'Advaita Sadhana', he says

clearly that the final realization is attained as a general rule

through "an external human guru" or in rare cases by the "the Lord

Himself ... as an internal guru". (See section 60: 'Is an

enlightened guru available?' Thank you, Professor V. Krishnamurthy,

for kindly providing this reference in your message #33937 of Oct

30.)

 

So in the end, according to one of the most strictly traditional

teachers of modern times, no instituted form can do the final work

that must be done by a living guru, either in external human form or

as the "Lord Himself" manifesting as "as a subtle guru in the very

antar-atma of the disciple". But here, in order to learn from a

living guru in either of these ways, a problem of personal

corruption has always to be overcome.

 

Of course, this is only to be expected, given the very nature of

advaita realization. It is an overcoming of all personal identity,

which makes the self seem personal. This personal identity is where

corruption starts. It's this corruption that corrupts our

personalities. And it is itself mistakenly personal, as it

misleadingly expresses a truth that is unmistakably impersonal. The

personal and the corrupt are thus paradoxically intertwined, into a

mistaken corruption of personality.

 

In the teacher-disciple relationship, this mistaken corruption is

addressed, beyond the reach of intellect or any formal reasoning.

The teacher stands for truth, to which a disciple aspires. What

stands in the way of that aspiration is a corruption of personality,

on the part of the disciple.

 

This personal corruption manifests in the disciple's attitude

towards the teacher and towards the truth that's sought. In choosing

a teacher, mistaken attitudes can get expressed in mistaken choice,

with devastating consequences that can be terribly painful, as

Shrimati Dhyanasaraswati has pointed out (in message #33942 of Oct

29). Like any deeply emotional affair, this is not for others to sit

in judgement, but for those concerned to undergo, hopefully with

courage and with a willingness to learn.

 

Is the search for truth worth risking the dangers of such suffering?

Is it better to seek safety in the shelter of long-established

institutions and their instituted forms? We each have our different

ways of answering these questions. I rather think that the Kanci

Mahasvami is right that the final safety lies in a sadhaka's own

purity of attitude.

 

But I lack too much in that department to say more, if indeed I

haven't said too much already.

 

Ananda

[Guest guest]

advaitin, Ananda Wood <awood wrote:

>

> Namaste Shri Shyam, Professor V. Krishnamurthy and Shrimati

> Dhyanasaraswati,

In the teacher-disciple relationship, this mistaken corruption is

> addressed, beyond the reach of intellect or any formal reasoning.

> The teacher stands for truth, to which a disciple aspires. What

> stands in the way of that aspiration is a corruption of

personality,

> on the part of the disciple.

> Ananda

>

 

ShrIgurubhyo namaH

 

Namaste All,

 

Maybe this verse/Sri Shankara's commentary would be of some use:

 

English Translation of Sri Sankaracharya's Sanskrit Commentary - by

Swami Gambhirananda

 

Bhagavad Gita 13.26

 

// Anye tu, others again; ajanantah, who do not know the Self as

described above; evam, thus, even in one of these alternative ways;

upasate, take to thinking, take to reflection, being imbued with

faith; srutva, after hearing; anyebhyah, from others, from the

teachers, having been told, 'Think only of this.' Te api ca, they,

too; sruti-parayanah, who are devoted to hearing, to whom hearing is

the supreme course, the best discipline for starting on the path to

Liberation, i.e., those who, themselves lacking in discrimination,

accept only others' advice as most authoritative; eva, certainly;

ati-taranti, overcome; mrtyum, death, i.e. the mundane existence

which is fraught with death. The implication is; It goes without

saying that those discriminating people who are idenpendent in the

application of the valid means of knowledge, cross over death. //

 

Here is a quote from the Book 'Exalting Elucidations'. In a chapter

titled 'Study of the Shastras', the point pertinent to the

discussion above is:

 

//Disciple: Is the study of scriptures necessary for one having

absolute faith in the teaching of one's Guru?

 

Acharyal: If a disciple has so firm a faith, it is not necessary for

him to study the shastras formally in order to know the Truth.//

 

With humble pranams,

subbu

Om Tat Sat

[Guest guest]

Both teacher and disciple must be seeking The Truth. The Path is available

to each and all. And those who seek It must be ever mindful of staying true,

whether student or teacher.

Namaste

 

 

>"subrahmanian_v" <subrahmanian_v >

>advaitin

>advaitin

> Re: 'Shraddha'

>Tue, 31 Oct 2006 18:05:10 -0000

>

>advaitin, Ananda Wood <awood wrote:

> >

> > Namaste Shri Shyam, Professor V. Krishnamurthy and Shrimati

> > Dhyanasaraswati,

>In the teacher-disciple relationship, this mistaken corruption is

> > addressed, beyond the reach of intellect or any formal reasoning.

> > The teacher stands for truth, to which a disciple aspires. What

> > stands in the way of that aspiration is a corruption of

>personality,

> > on the part of the disciple.

> > Ananda

> >

>

>ShrIgurubhyo namaH

>

>Namaste All,

>

>Maybe this verse/Sri Shankara's commentary would be of some use:

>

>English Translation of Sri Sankaracharya's Sanskrit Commentary - by

>Swami Gambhirananda

>

>Bhagavad Gita 13.26

>

>// Anye tu, others again; ajanantah, who do not know the Self as

>described above; evam, thus, even in one of these alternative ways;

>upasate, take to thinking, take to reflection, being imbued with

>faith; srutva, after hearing; anyebhyah, from others, from the

>teachers, having been told, 'Think only of this.' Te api ca, they,

>too; sruti-parayanah, who are devoted to hearing, to whom hearing is

>the supreme course, the best discipline for starting on the path to

>Liberation, i.e., those who, themselves lacking in discrimination,

>accept only others' advice as most authoritative; eva, certainly;

>ati-taranti, overcome; mrtyum, death, i.e. the mundane existence

>which is fraught with death. The implication is; It goes without

>saying that those discriminating people who are idenpendent in the

>application of the valid means of knowledge, cross over death. //

>

>Here is a quote from the Book 'Exalting Elucidations'. In a chapter

>titled 'Study of the Shastras', the point pertinent to the

>discussion above is:

>

>//Disciple: Is the study of scriptures necessary for one having

>absolute faith in the teaching of one's Guru?

>

>Acharyal: If a disciple has so firm a faith, it is not necessary for

>him to study the shastras formally in order to know the Truth.//

>

>With humble pranams,

>subbu

>Om Tat Sat

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

namastE!

 

If a teacher is corrupt, it is the disciple responsible for that!

Disciple alone is solely responsible.

 

Acharyah poorvarupam antevaasyuttara rupam - Taittiriya upanishad.

 

You can clap only when both hands meetup. A relationship called

Guru+Sihsya doesnt happen alone. A guru will be called a guru only

where there is a sishya.

 

There are many types of gurus - as per your prarabdha and

poorvakarma you get who you deserve.

 

 

During 1987 I was attending a Gita Lecture by Swamy Chinmayanandaji,

in AP, India. Unfortunately a Big Black Pig has entered in to the

yagnaSala. Noone noticed it as everyone is very attentively

listening to the lecture. And Swamiji stopped his lecture and

said "Look a pig has entered in to the yagnaSala" then he gave a big

pause.... looked mischiveously towards the Rich/Famous/Political

people sitting in the front rows of the Yagna and declared "WHY

NOT!" :-) Everyone laughed out loud.

 

Love & Light,

Madhava

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

advaitin, "doug revelle" <mdrdsr41 wrote:

>

> Both teacher and disciple must be seeking The Truth. The Path is

available

> to each and all. And those who seek It must be ever mindful of

staying true,

> whether student or teacher.

> Namaste

>

>

> >"subrahmanian_v" <subrahmanian_v

> >advaitin

> >advaitin

> > Re: 'Shraddha'

> >Tue, 31 Oct 2006 18:05:10 -0000

> >

> >advaitin, Ananda Wood <awood@> wrote:

> > >

> > > Namaste Shri Shyam, Professor V. Krishnamurthy and Shrimati

> > > Dhyanasaraswati,

> >In the teacher-disciple relationship, this mistaken corruption is

> > > addressed, beyond the reach of intellect or any formal

reasoning.

> > > The teacher stands for truth, to which a disciple aspires. What

> > > stands in the way of that aspiration is a corruption of

> >personality,

> > > on the part of the disciple.

> > > Ananda

> > >

> >

> >ShrIgurubhyo namaH

> >

> >Namaste All,

> >

> >Maybe this verse/Sri Shankara's commentary would be of some use:

> >

> >English Translation of Sri Sankaracharya's Sanskrit Commentary -

by

> >Swami Gambhirananda

> >

> >Bhagavad Gita 13.26

> >

> >// Anye tu, others again; ajanantah, who do not know the Self as

> >described above; evam, thus, even in one of these alternative

ways;

> >upasate, take to thinking, take to reflection, being imbued with

> >faith; srutva, after hearing; anyebhyah, from others, from the

> >teachers, having been told, 'Think only of this.' Te api ca, they,

> >too; sruti-parayanah, who are devoted to hearing, to whom hearing

is

> >the supreme course, the best discipline for starting on the path

to

> >Liberation, i.e., those who, themselves lacking in discrimination,

> >accept only others' advice as most authoritative; eva, certainly;

> >ati-taranti, overcome; mrtyum, death, i.e. the mundane existence

> >which is fraught with death. The implication is; It goes without

> >saying that those discriminating people who are idenpendent in the

> >application of the valid means of knowledge, cross over death. //

> >

> >Here is a quote from the Book 'Exalting Elucidations'. In a

chapter

> >titled 'Study of the Shastras', the point pertinent to the

> >discussion above is:

> >

> >//Disciple: Is the study of scriptures necessary for one having

> >absolute faith in the teaching of one's Guru?

> >

> >Acharyal: If a disciple has so firm a faith, it is not necessary

for

> >him to study the shastras formally in order to know the Truth.//

> >

> >With humble pranams,

> >subbu

> >Om Tat Sat

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >