Official Ramakanta vs. IRM discussion thread

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Dear Yaduraja Prabhu, PAMHO. AGTSP!

 

 

> No, it is the logical outcome.

 

Has this statement ("No, it is the logical outcome") been produced by

someone's imperfect brain? Or have you heard it from Srila Prabhupada?

 

 

> The guru ordered the GBC to manage initiation, told them EXACTLY how to

> manage it,

 

That is incorrect. Srila Prabhupada did not tell the GBC how to identify and

install ritviks. Surely you must agree that if Srila Prabhupada wanted the

ritvik system to continue after his departure, he would have given the GBC

the necessary institutional mechanisms by which to operate.

 

 

> and never authorised them to change the way they managed it.

 

Let us be accurate. Your point b) is:

 

"Amongst all the orders from Srila Prabhupada to the GBC that the GBC have

so far presented on the guru issue to justify their actions, there is no

order that we (the IRM) have seen whereby Srila Prabhupada authorises the

GBC to remove him as the sole diksa guru for ISKCON." (Yaduraja, Oct 9,

2006)

 

The fact that you (who does not know how a devotee is authorized to be a

diksa guru in ISKCON) have not seen such an order does not mean that there

is none.

 

 

> I notice you have not asked me to provide the quotes that prove 1,2, and

> 3, so for now I shall assume you accept they HAVE been proven by the

> quotes I provided.

 

No, 2) and 3) have not been proven by the quotes you presented.

 

 

> 2) Were told precisely how to manage initiation (July 9th).

 

The July 9th letter does not contain any instruction to the GBC on how to

install ritviks.

 

 

> 3) Were not authorised to change the system of initiation that locked in

> place the status quo you agree Srila Prabhupada established in 1966.

 

You have not confirmed by quotes from Srila Prabhupada that the July 9th

letter locked down Srila Prabhupada's position as the sole initiator within

ISKCON. You just repeated it ad nauseam believing that this makes it true.

 

 

> This is a self-contradiction since if you are conceding that Srila

> Prabhupada can deliver a disciple who 'outlives' him (whatever definition

> of the word 'deliver' you may wish to ascribe) then that would mean he CAN

> deliver disciples even whilst not physically present on this planet.

 

You see this contradiction because you speculate that the guru can deliver

the disciple only at the time when the disciple leaves the body. But this is

not confirmed. Anyway, you are just trying to distract from the fact that

you cannot answer following question:

 

If Srila Prabhupada does not have to be present to deliver his disciple, as

you claim, then why did he write that he has to come back from Goloka

Vrindaban to deliver those disciples who are not delivered along with him?

 

 

> Regarding your humble enquire. Please look up the word 'manage'; then

> apply this concept to the system given in the July 9th letter.

 

Are you unable to tell me what you mean by "manage initiation"? Do you also

mean installing ritviks? If yes, what are Srila Prabhupada's written

instructions to the GBC on how to install ritviks?

 

 

ys Ramakanta dasa