I had thought about stopping initiations last year.. Indradyumna Swami

[Kulapavana]

 

...when Prabhupada left us ISKCON was on strong course of expansion, you actually felt it's getting bigger everyday. Today, 2006, you see ISKCON diminishing everywhere, in fact it became something like a stagnent cult, almost about to disappear. This is not Srila Prabhupada's mood anymore it rather looks like a gradually perishing entity.

 

the seeds of Iskcon's destruction were sown even when Prabhupada was still on the planet, by his disciples who twisted and debased all kinds of instructions and principles in the name of "the end justifies the means" or other bogus concoctions, where their own material desires and lack of maturity and knowledge made a deadly combination.

 

there are ALL KINDS of successful religious groups in the world, and we are not one of them for a LOT of reasons. if you think Prabhupada is not in the center of Iskcon today then you do not know the Iskcon of today. I talk to new people almost every day and people ARE interested in what our movement has to offer but Iskcon's approach is completely out of touch with reality. There is no one reason Iskcon is losing ground in the West, and there is no one magic bullet.

[Kulapavana]

 

Looks like gradually we are getting to the root, what you're saying concerns the credibility of the very process of bhakti-yoga in full spectrum. What I read between the lines is that you actually dont believe that the path of bhakti works!

 

what I dont believe is that you can actually read, let alone read between the lines

[ananda]

Hare Krishna!

 

To the guest who posted 149 and 150...dont know the name...may be both are same...

 

anyways..i will try to cut it short..

 

i would like to politely disagree with everything written...

 

we are not comparing apples to apples...

 

when you say discussion..to my best knowledge, no one in this thread is DISCUSSING...all we are doing here is

 

CRITICIZING, FAULT FINDING and SPECULATING...

 

No one here is following the etiqutte of rules of DEBATE and SCHOLARLY ARGUMENT..

 

we are cutting and pasting some person's (mostly Srila Prabhupada) and speculating the circumstance and environment in which he must have said...

 

this is not how to debate...atleast to my knowledge.

 

Debate starts with a claim (an assertion)..then we show VALID proof and evidence through triangulation and qualitative analysis and for that...it requires more than 100 or 200 words of so called discussion we see in these threads.

 

The counter debate starts by proving or disproving by not shouting louder than the previous person or calling names but with sound, clear evidence to the contrary with the same type of analytical approach.

 

In the whole process, both the parties should be completely detached from the argument and just present the argument and not have any subjective opinion on the matter. This type of debate is fit for both spiritual and material subject matter.

 

In material science, we use OBJECTIVE FACTS and DATA to remove bias and in spiritual argument, we are detached by the dint of our realiztion and hence present the topic AS IT IS.

 

No ONE in this thread is following any rules except name calling, and bad mouthing and speculating.

 

Sorry to differ..but this is how i see discussion and sharing of knowledge. But due to our impurities, we get personel, passionate and lose our cool and hence cannot think straight.

 

ALso, this forum is for sharing knowledge, and apart from the first two or three posts, everything else is SPECULATION (not discussion)

 

Haribol!

 

anand

[ananda]

Dear Anand, does this not looks very much like criticizing others to not criticize?

 

TO that statement specifically, i accept i am no good than any, i speculate and criticize but it is like i am looking in the mirror and giving a solution...only way not to criticize is to OUTRIGHT STOP and accept DISHONOR and be humble and patient and leave it to Krishna!

 

Haribol!

 

anand