Guest guest Posted November 2, 2006 Report Share Posted November 2, 2006 Dear Prabhu, Please accept my humble obeisances. All glories to Srila Prabhupada. Thank you for your detailed response. Let me restate what I believe to be true so you can correct me: 1. Ghee and other milk products are healthy for humans, if taken in proper and reasonable amounts -- as well as salt, sugar, rice, flour, and oils. 2. Regardless of comparative health benefits of ghee vs. vegetable oils, preference should be given to the usage of cow ghee when cooking for Krsna in our temples, as per the sastric and Srila Prabhupada's instructions. Krsna does not have cholesterol to watch out for. 3. Modern health specialists -- who one may of course easily dismiss as demons -- have shown a considerable positive impact of mono- and poly-unsaturated fat acids on human cardiovascular problems, which are No.1 killer in today's world. Conversely, saturated fats, which ghee mainly consists of, are quoted among risk factors for heart disorders. Many vegetable oils, unlike ghee, have a high mono- and poly-unsaturated fats content and may therefore be more beneficial for some essential aspects of human health in the context of contemporary world and life-style. This does not mean that ghee does not have its own indispensable medicinal value, nor that it has to be banned from kitchens. However, its regular intake may have to be adjusted to the realities of modern life-style and balanced with a sufficient intake of healthy vegetable oils. 4. Vegetable oils are not forbidden in cooking for Krsna even in temples, as per Srila Prabhupada's direct statement, whenever "ghee is not available or easily acquired". I would leave the judgment of whether a particular level of ease in acquiring ghee justifies switching over to veg oil up to the discretion of individual temple managements. 5. There is a plethora of traditional Indian recipes using various vegetable oils rather than ghee, even when ghee is readily available (pickles, for instance -- see PS below). They may also be perfectly offerable to Krsna and thus in no way inferior to ghee preparations, provided they are cooked with devotion and pure desire to satisfy Him. 6. Therefore I see no need to demonize either the use of vegetable oils in temple/home kitchens nor the devotees who advocate it, as long as the use of oils for cooking is in accordance with the principles above. 7. I agree that vegetable oils may vary in terms of their quality for cooking, and that soybean oil may not be among the best of them. However, it may still be an acceptable replacement for ghee in temple cooking when ghee and/or better oils are "not available or easily acquired" (SP). Your servant, Madana-mohana das PS. More statements from Srila Prabhupada on oil in cooking: Regarding your recipe for pickling foodstuffs, it is all right, but it will be nicer still if you follow the following procedure: Cut berries, green apples or green tomatoes into pieces. Without adding water, add a mixture of equal quantities of salt, turmeric and red peppers. Then let it be dried in the sunlight as far as possible. When this is done, put it either in mustard oil or in olive oil, and it will then keep for years. Letter to: Kirtanananda — Los Angeles 6 August, 1969 69-08-06 In Miami there are so many mangos and coconuts. I am enjoying the dobs from Florida. The orange ones especially are very nice. I am taking one each day. >From the green mangos you can make pickles. Cut them into pieces with skin intact, and sprinkle with salt and turmeric. Dry them well in the sunshine and put into mustard oil. They will keep for years, and you can enjoy with eating. They are nice and soft and good for digestion. If no vegetable is available, you can eat them with puris, similarly with pickled chilis. When mango pickles and chili pickles are combined, it is very tasteful. The Miami temple sounds to be very nice with bathing place and peacocks, just like Vrindaban. Krishna will supply you everything, don't worry. Just work sincerely. Letter to: Aksayananda — Washington D.C. 5 July, 1976 76-07-05 Whatever is available easily we can use. There is no objection to using electricity. But we should not be dependent upon it. Produce oil from castor seeds and stock the oil sufficiently. It can be used in so many ways—for burning, grease, **** cooking ****, and as a purgative to cure all diseases. Letter to: Subhavilasa — Mayapur 16 March, 1977 77-03-16 Madhudvisa: Yes. Indian import store they have. We have papadams. Prabhupada: Take the dal, urad dal, and make it powder like flour, and knead it with oil. And give masala and then make like capati. And when it is dry it is papad. It is not difficult. Add little soda-bicarb. Morning Walk — May 19, 1975, Melbourne Prabhupada: And mix with mustard oil and this, what is called, eggplant. Eggplant roasted in the fire and put with little mustard oil, salt and chilis, it becomes very tasteful. So puffed rice and that, they take in Bengal. That is tiffin, for breakfast. Formerly they were happy simply by eating palatable dishes according to... Morning Walk and Room Conversation — August 9, 1976, Tehran Prabhupada: Actually we enjoyed life in our childhood. Although we were not very nicely dressed and not very comfortable, the so-called comfortable. We could sleep anywhere. We did not require any nice dress or nice food. My mother used to prepare very nice food. We were glad in that way. Nice parata, nice vegetable, acara, so many things she used to prepare. Always preparing some food. Puffed rice. Tamala Krsna: She was cooking with ghee? Prabhupada: Yes. Our family with ghee. Some fried. That is used, oil. Tamala Krsna: Fried portal. Prabhupada: Ghee and oil, both were used. Where is that happiness gone? Room Conversation Varnasrama — July 14, 1977, Vrndavana Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 2, 2006 Report Share Posted November 2, 2006 Dear Jahnu Prabhu, Please accept my humble obeisances. All glories to Srila Prabhupada. Thank you for your letter. >According to Ayurveda ghee is the supreme cooking medium. You may note that I did not maintain that ghee was bad or unhealthy. I just said that some vegetable oils tended to be more healthy than ghee in regular diet in the long run. >In fact, anything >not cooked in ghee is considered not cooked at all, and raw foods are >considered low class. I did not discuss which class of food they belonged to. But, if sattvic food, among other things, is supposed to "increase the duration of life, purify one's existence and give strength, health, happiness and satisfaction" (Bg 17.8), and if some vegetable oils are found to decrease the risk of cancer and coronary diseases and increase life expectancy if taken regularly -- I guess olive and sesame oils and foods prepared with them are as sattvic as you can get. We are entering the realm of biochemistry here, and, albeit a chemist by education, I am not prepared to spend time and efforts discussing this issue any further. However, to do justice to ghee, there is an interesting report on how ghee actually decreases the level of serum cholesterol: http://blog.freeradicalfederation.com/archive/2006/08/22/GheeLowersCholester ol.aspx Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 2, 2006 Report Share Posted November 2, 2006 >which country do yoy >think produces the MOST soy beans in the world? an Asian country we know >of??? NO! it's the USA... run by demonic leaders. Prabhu, I am afraid you will be dismayed to know where the bulk of the world's commercial cow butter and ghee comes from, which leaders run those contries and keep those cows and how. However, is it a good reason to oust butter and ghee from our cooking unless it comes from Vrndavan goshala? Your servant, Madana-mohana das Dear Madana-mohana Prabhu, PAMHO. AGTSP. I should clarify what I meant when I made the above statement. And please pardon the diversions (from the original topic) I make in the following post. I was NOT suggesting that because the majority of Soy Beans are produced in the USA, that ipso facto, they should be rejected. My logic was based on the fact that SOY products are being touted for so many years now as being a great wonder food, so good for health. As thinking persons, we should wonder why. Even certain scientific studies have been commissioned by the leading promoters of these products, certifying their soundness and health benefits. But of course they did that with cigarettes, chewing gum and Aspartame (Nutrasweet) as well, didn't they? The result is that now, in every supermarket and especially 'health food' stores (in the west), one can find dozens of Soy products but hardly any uncontaminated organic milk (by ratio). Many people (even devotees) are now accustomed to drink Soy milk instead of cow milk and eat tofu regularly. It began with things like Margarine in the 1870's and progressed to Low Fat milk (2%, 1%, No fat!) and has evolved to this. And how many devotees take the occasional (or more) soda to quench their thirst ignoring the delayed ill health effects? HOWEVER; Independent (of Multi National companies) studies of SOY show contrary results to those being advertised so broadly around the world. But who is paying attention to these??? Independent studies also show that the Diphtheria, Tetanus and Pertussis (DPT) shots that infants receive en masse in almost every country almost immediately after they are born, causes brain damage, cancer, reduction in the Immuno-response actions, (et al); yet a majority of DEVOTEES unthinkingly subject their children to such shots, ingest pharmaceutical over-the-counter drugs themselves, recieve Smallpox & Polio vaccinations, etc., etc.!!!!!!! Did you know that in the USA now, any Governor can declare an emergency for ANY reason? Even if he just 'thinks' (maybe he's having a bad day) or supposes that a Terrorist act is about to be committed (without evidence) he can order an emergency. One of the accompanying provisions in this law is that agencies under the Governors jurisdiction (Police, Fire, Health, FEMA, etc) can administer vaccinations to ANY citizen and it is a FELONY to refuse such vaccinations punishable by "quarantine". What THAT means is anybody's guess. The point here is that people including devotees are being manipulated and controlled and being taught what is 'good' for them (eg. Soy) by unseen powers. DEVOTEES..... PLEASE - WAKE UP!!! and start inquiring about WHY something should be eaten or done and STOP being abused. Paper is NOT money. Having a job, health insurance, a car or simply collecting such 'paper' will shortly be useless; such things will soon not feed you or your children, what to spak of their children. GMO's (genetically modified organisms) are not proper human foods. Soy is not a healthy food and Soybean Oil (that apparently Moscow mandir cooks with) is worse. Artificial sweeteners (Aspartame, Nutrasweet, etc.,) are deleterious to your health and mind. Foods grown with pesticides, herbicides, insecticides and other gas & petroleum-based additives are poison for our minds and bodies. Vaccinations are grossly deleterious to one's health. Naturally occurring Sugars (organic), fats and milk products are GOOD for your health. Devotees must start to obtain the INDEPENDENT information about everything. My point is that most people (especially devotees) are unaware that WORLDWIDE - beginning from the Educational Institutions and including the Government, Multi national Corporations and Bankers who control the ideas of what is "good" for us - there is a HIDDEN AGENDA which actively promotes the above groups own unlimitedly selfish (ergo demonic, as stated) interests. Learned biochemists like our dear Madan-Mohan prabhu and other scientific minds, (what to speak of morons like me) are preened from childhood to accept the status quo of supposed educational conclusions regarding History, Physics, Chemistry, Biology, etc., and one can get nowhere (as in becoming a PhD, University Professor, 'accepted' authority) without kowtowing to the powers that run these Universities, companies, Corporations and enormous controlling institutions. My reasoning that devotees should NOT think that cooking in Soy bean oil is good, was thus based on this information. It is simply demonic propaganda. Naturally there will always be 'other' studies countering each other. But we must see beyond the studies themselves and inquire by whom they were commissioned and for what purposes. Where, why and how did these trends begin? You will be horrified and astounded to learn the truths behind the propaganda. I guarantee it. One servant of Srila Prabhupada is now in the formational stages of writing an article addressing these and other very important & urgent issues that devotees need to be made aware of in order to make proper INFORMED decisions about how to lead their lives and in which direction. HOW exactly are we being cheated (as alluded to in Srila Prabhupada's books), what can the world expect in the very near future and what solutions are available? You will be horrified and astounded by the information. I guarantee it. Awaiting this, I provide the following links for your unbiased perusal. I look forward to responses from 'independently thoughtful' devotees. your servant, Haridasa vesyadasa Ps. There are very real reasons why Srila Prabhupada directed us to begin Varnasrama (meaning FARMING COMMUNITIES) more than 30 years ago. These reasons have both spiritual and material applications and implications. If we continue to lag in this as we have done over the past 30 years, we will have committed unpardonable sins & we will never forgive ourselves; and neither will our children and their children. For those devotees who would like reference material regarding what I am speaking about, please email me privately and I will send you more information than you can digest. The Hidden Dangers of Soy Allergens http://www.nexusmagazine.com/articles/Soy%20Allergens.html Beware of The Toxicity of Soy Products http://www.shirleys-wellness-cafe.com/soy.htm Soy: Too Good to be True http://www.mercola.com/2000/feb/13/more_on_soy.htm CANOLA OIL - Danger !!!??? http://breathing.com/articles/canola-oil.htm http://www.gmofree-europe.org/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 2, 2006 Report Share Posted November 2, 2006 >which country do yoy >think produces the MOST soy beans in the world? an Asian country we know >of??? NO! it's the USA... run by demonic leaders. Prabhu, I am afraid you will be dismayed to know where the bulk of the world's commercial cow butter and ghee comes from, which leaders run those contries and keep those cows and how. However, is it a good reason to oust butter and ghee from our cooking unless it comes from Vrndavan goshala? Your servant, Madana-mohana das Dear Madana-mohana Prabhu, PAMHO. AGTSP. I should clarify what I meant when I made the above statement. And please pardon the diversions (from the original topic) I make in the following post. I was NOT suggesting that because the majority of Soy Beans are produced in the USA, that ipso facto, they should be rejected. My logic was based on the fact that SOY products are being touted for so many years now as being a great wonder food, so good for health. As thinking persons, we should wonder why. Even certain scientific studies have been commissioned by the leading promoters of these products, certifying their soundness and health benefits. But of course they did that with cigarettes, chewing gum and Aspartame (Nutrasweet) as well, didn't they? The result is that now, in every supermarket and especially 'health food' stores (in the west), one can find dozens of Soy products but hardly any uncontaminated organic milk (by ratio). Many people (even devotees) are now accustomed to drink Soy milk instead of cow milk and eat tofu regularly. It began with things like Margarine in the 1870's and progressed to Low Fat milk (2%, 1%, No fat!) and has evolved to this. And how many devotees take the occasional (or more) soda to quench their thirst ignoring the delayed ill health effects? HOWEVER; Independent (of Multi National companies) studies of SOY show contrary results to those being advertised so broadly around the world. But who is paying attention to these??? Independent studies also show that the Diphtheria, Tetanus and Pertussis (DPT) shots that infants receive en masse in almost every country almost immediately after they are born, causes brain damage, cancer, reduction in the Immuno-response actions, (et al); yet a majority of DEVOTEES unthinkingly subject their children to such shots, ingest pharmaceutical over-the-counter drugs themselves, recieve Smallpox & Polio vaccinations, etc., etc.!!!!!!! Did you know that in the USA now, any Governor can declare an emergency for ANY reason? Even if he just 'thinks' (maybe he's having a bad day) or supposes that a Terrorist act is about to be committed (without evidence) he can order an emergency. One of the accompanying provisions in this law is that agencies under the Governors jurisdiction (Police, Fire, Health, FEMA, etc) can administer vaccinations to ANY citizen and it is a FELONY to refuse such vaccinations punishable by "quarantine". What THAT means is anybody's guess. The point here is that people including devotees are being manipulated and controlled and being taught what is 'good' for them (eg. Soy) by unseen powers. DEVOTEES..... PLEASE - WAKE UP!!! and start inquiring about WHY something should be eaten or done and STOP being abused. Paper is NOT money. Having a job, health insurance, a car or simply collecting such 'paper' will shortly be useless; such things will soon not feed you or your children, what to spak of their children. GMO's (genetically modified organisms) are not proper human foods. Soy is not a healthy food and Soybean Oil (that apparently Moscow mandir cooks with) is worse. Artificial sweeteners (Aspartame, Nutrasweet, etc.,) are deleterious to your health and mind. Foods grown with pesticides, herbicides, insecticides and other gas & petroleum-based additives are poison for our minds and bodies. Vaccinations are grossly deleterious to one's health. Naturally occurring Sugars (organic), fats and milk products are GOOD for your health. Devotees must start to obtain the INDEPENDENT information about everything. My point is that most people (especially devotees) are unaware that WORLDWIDE - beginning from the Educational Institutions and including the Government, Multi national Corporations and Bankers who control the ideas of what is "good" for us - there is a HIDDEN AGENDA which actively promotes the above groups own unlimitedly selfish (ergo demonic, as stated) interests. Learned biochemists like our dear Madan-Mohan prabhu and other scientific minds, (what to speak of morons like me) are preened from childhood to accept the status quo of supposed educational conclusions regarding History, Physics, Chemistry, Biology, etc., and one can get nowhere (as in becoming a PhD, University Professor, 'accepted' authority) without kowtowing to the powers that run these Universities, companies, Corporations and enormous controlling institutions. My reasoning that devotees should NOT think that cooking in Soy bean oil is good, was thus based on this information. It is simply demonic propaganda. Naturally there will always be 'other' studies countering each other. But we must see beyond the studies themselves and inquire by whom they were commissioned and for what purposes. Where, why and how did these trends begin? You will be horrified and astounded to learn the truths behind the propaganda. I guarantee it. One servant of Srila Prabhupada is now in the formational stages of writing an article addressing these and other very important & urgent issues that devotees need to be made aware of in order to make proper INFORMED decisions about how to lead their lives and in which direction. HOW exactly are we being cheated (as alluded to in Srila Prabhupada's books), what can the world expect in the very near future and what solutions are available? You will be horrified and astounded by the information. I guarantee it. Awaiting this, I provide the following links for your unbiased perusal. I look forward to responses from 'independently thoughtful' devotees. your servant, Haridasa vesyadasa Ps. There are very real reasons why Srila Prabhupada directed us to begin Varnasrama (meaning FARMING COMMUNITIES) more than 30 years ago. These reasons have both spiritual and material applications and implications. If we continue to lag in this as we have done over the past 30 years, we will have committed unpardonable sins & we will never forgive ourselves; and neither will our children and their children. For those devotees who would like reference material regarding what I am speaking about, please email me privately and I will send you more information than you can digest. The Hidden Dangers of Soy Allergens http://www.nexusmagazine.com/articles/Soy%20Allergens.html Beware of The Toxicity of Soy Products http://www.shirleys-wellness-cafe.com/soy.htm Soy: Too Good to be True http://www.mercola.com/2000/feb/13/more_on_soy.htm CANOLA OIL - Danger !!!??? http://breathing.com/articles/canola-oil.htm http://www.gmofree-europe.org/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 3, 2006 Report Share Posted November 3, 2006 >I should clarify what I meant when I made the above statement. And please >pardon the diversions (from the original topic) I make in the following >post. Dear Prabhu, Please accept my humble obeisances. All glories to Srila Prabhupada. Thank you for the informative diversion. But, regardless of whether there is a demoniac conspirasy behind a bottle of soy oil or not, according to Srila Prabhupada, it is permissible to use vegetable oils in place of ghee in cooking for Krsna whenever the latter is "not available or easily acquired" or wherever an authoritative recipe requires it. This was the original point of our discussion, and before we move on to discussing just which types of vegetable oils should better be used, which should be avoided, and why, I suggest that we first agree on this one. Begging to remain your servant Madana-mohana das Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 3, 2006 Report Share Posted November 3, 2006 My experience of the Australian Temples is that ghee is used for the deities and devotee prasadam but oil in restaurants.I have only replied to cooking seminar since this topic doesn't belong on Krsna Katha. YSYS > Hare Krishna Prabhus > PAMHO, AGTSP > So the final verdict is ????? > Can someone else from other temples post if they are using soybean oil or > not. > humbly yours > Vidurpriya das Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 3, 2006 Report Share Posted November 3, 2006 >I should clarify what I meant when I made the above statement. And please >pardon the diversions (from the original topic) I make in the following >post. Dear Prabhu, Please accept my humble obeisances. All glories to Srila Prabhupada. Thank you for the informative diversions. However, regardless of whether there is a demoniac conspiracy behind a bottle of soy oil or not, according to Srila Prabhupada, it is permissible to use vegetable oils in place of ghee in cooking for Krsna whenever the latter is "not available or easily acquired" or whenever an authoritative recipe requires so. This was the original point of our discussion, and before we move on to discussing just which types of vegetable oils should better be used, which should be avoided, and why, I suggest that we first agree on this one. Begging to remain your servant Madana-mohana das Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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