Looking for Non Iskcon Vaisnava association

[Sridas]

diparchir eva hi dashantaram abhyupetya

dipayate vivrita-hetu-samana-dharma

yas tadrig eva hi cha vishnu-taya vibhati

govindam adi-purusham tam aham bhajami

 

The light of one candle being communicated to other candles, although it burns separately in them, is the same in its quality. I adore the Primeval Lord Govinda who exhibits Himself equally in the same mobile manner in His various manifestations.

 

 

May y'all find the sweetest devotional company you can.

[Guest guest]

You don't have to be a member of an organisation to be a devotee. I'm a disicple of a GM guru but I have no dealings with his organisation since I find it very political and uninspiring. I love my guru but not his organisation. The same way I love Srila Prabhupada but not Iskcon.

 

Find devotees who don't to organisation conciousness. I avoid Iskcon fundamentalist as much as I avoid GM fundamentalist.

 

The only advice I would give is not to lose your humanity as some organisation devotees often do, and avoid the personality cults which permeate western vaisnavism.

 

Many of the postings above mention various gurus as if to say come to us and we will sort out your problems. Dig a little deeper as you'll find personality cultism. You can almost hear the authors jumping up and down shouting "My guru is best!"

 

Bhakti takes place in the heart not in loyality to misguided organisations.

 

Good luck on your journey.....

[suchandra]

Seems Mira left for good.......

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Mira- don't go to Kripalu Maharaj. They discourage worshipping Sri Vigraha and Tulasi Maharani, they don't do japa and there is no diksha. Moreover, they think Kripalu is Krishna and Mahaprabhu rolled up into one, and worship him as such- as God. I hope nobody here thinks this is an OK, good thing.

[suchandra]

 

Mira- don't go to Kripalu Maharaj. They discourage worshipping Sri Vigraha and Tulasi Maharani, they don't do japa and there is no diksha. Moreover, they think Kripalu is Krishna and Mahaprabhu rolled up into one, and worship him as such- as God. I hope nobody here thinks this is an OK, good thing.

 

Who's Kripalu Maharaja - only found Kripalu Yoga which hasnt anything to do with bhakti-yoga.

[Guest guest]

take it as a forewarning then- anybody who thinks he's god- ain't

[theist]

 

Mira- don't go to Kripalu Maharaj. They discourage worshipping Sri Vigraha and Tulasi Maharani, they don't do japa and there is no diksha. Moreover, they think Kripalu is Krishna and Mahaprabhu rolled up into one, and worship him as such- as God. I hope nobody here thinks this is an OK, good thing.

 

Ditto that

[Pankaja_Dasa]

Jaya Prabhupada!

[Sridas]

 

You don't have to be a member of an organisation to be a devotee. I'm a disicple of a GM guru but I have no dealings with his organisation since I find it very political and uninspiring. I love my guru but not his organisation. The same way I love Srila Prabhupada but not Iskcon.

 

Find devotees who don't to organisation conciousness. I avoid Iskcon fundamentalist as much as I avoid GM fundamentalist.

 

The only advice I would give is not to lose your humanity as some organisation devotees often do, and avoid the personality cults which permeate western vaisnavism.

 

Many of the postings above mention various gurus as if to say come to us and we will sort out your problems. Dig a little deeper as you'll find personality cultism. You can almost hear the authors jumping up and down shouting "My guru is best!"

 

Bhakti takes place in the heart not in loyality to misguided organisations.

 

Good luck on your journey.....

 

 

Dear Guest,

What you are saying on the one hand can work both ways protecting from institutional sectarianism or fundamentalist party spirit, but at the same time can keep one from much needed and recommended association.

Some look for spiritual association because they are weary of becoming an island unto themselves, no one wants to be lonely or isolated.

Some devotees natures are naturally shy or back pushing, and can't relate to group, club, team anything this can be very healthy and beneficial to spiritual advancement. Yet at the same time they can be so sensitive, sometimes even bordering on paranoia that they never associate with hardly any vaisnavas at all, and this too can be detrimental as we are recommended to seek out higher association than ourselves for progressive advancement and to give checks and balances. So it can maybe be a built in mechanism for protection or a broken alarm bell that cuts off the very thing one may need.

On the other end of the spectrum you have bombastic, gung ho personalities that are so in your face, that don't give you enough space to even think or pray privately without enforcing their neophyte sometimes ill founded beliefs down your throat, there seems to always be one or more in every crowd.

But i think it's an individual call, because many realize that when you are around a beehive of dedication you have to get use to others husseling with fervor to serve their spiritual master. It's a sacrifice, and when a large variety of personalities live or serve together we have to learn to tolerate different natures that can even be uncomfortably competitive to our own.

 

When the ingredients are favourable the subji comes out to everyones liking, too much hing and the atmosphere can get a little strained, but that doesn't mean we don't take prasad, or go to the festival.

But all in all we want to be in Mahaprabhus sankirtan party, not watching it on the internet, singing and dancing in that self same spirit as the Lord Himself, in a co-operative sanga of service. Even He was surrounded by some extremely eccentric characters, rolling on peoples doorsteps begging them bhaja gauranga, kaha gauranga, laha gauranger nama, yei jana gauranga bhaje sei amara prana. Only in Bengal. But what if someone arrived unanounced on your doorstep half naked, pleading in song for you to come and meet this person we are singing about. What would you do?

 

These choices may not be our ideal of absolute harmony because everyone is at different levels of development, and there will be times when sangas appear more like psyche wards than spiritual sanctuaries. Yet if we want regular congregational hearing, chanting and rememberance we may need to jump in the deep end.

Regarding ra- rarring for my guru, many devotees quite naturally want others to taste the company or meet the one who they feel saved their life, and that can be shared and often times be more relishable around the disciples serving enthusiasm. Not that ones master and godbrethren are the only way, the truth and the life to make advancement, but rather come and try this because it works for me and others also are finding inner fullfillment thru this channell. So they are very keen to canvas on behalf of their beloved master and bring the suffering alienated population to a positive alternative to that which they may be experiencing in the vast spectrum of misconception out there.

Many of them genuinely believe their sanga can give shelta from the storms, and they may be right on different levels. At the same time as you are alluding to, we must tread cautiously with care and attention to the quality of our association, that they are not offensive rumor mongers and gutter inspectors with ulterior motives, as this can be disastrous for the tender buds of our bhakti lata.

We know India is riddled with wolves in religious cloth, and that has been exported to the world at large, but if you find good pious association that can also insulate us from being deluded by these wolves, foxes and other predators.

[Guest guest]

One sadhvi who was one of a GM guru's very first Western disciples was giving class in an extremely isolated part of the world. It was a part of the world not so nice, so the World Tour tour caravans did not often come there, if ever.

 

 

 

In her class, she cited some personalities in the hagiographies of GM history and said, "So and so [sorry I forget who; it may have been more than one person] only saw his guru ONE TIME! ONE TIME! But he kept his guru in his heart, and look at all of the things that he accomplished.

 

"So why do we have such little faith? Why are we lamenting: 'I never get to see Guru, so I just give up. I won't work on my bhakti.'

 

"Why do we think like that?! Gurudeva has given us the most wonderful treasure of all: the Holy Names. And in the Holy Name, there are all of Radha and Krsna's associates. All of the cows are there. All of the sakhas are there. All of the gopis are there. Every creeper, grove, and flower is there."

 

 

 

This sadhvi had so much faith. And I think she may be right, for it appears that some people do have a certain type of karma. According to Vedic astrology, whether or not you get good association and sadhu sangha is all in your astrological chart.

 

Sometimes we want something and maybe we can't have it; that includes our fantasy of what a nice spiritual life would be for us. Man proposes; God disposes. Or "If you want to make Goddess laugh, then just tell Her your plans."

 

I have read lots of accounts by devotees who were astonished when they went preaching in some seemingly God-forsaken town in the middle of Hellhole and lo and behold: there is that town would live some elderly lady who had once read one book of Prabhupada's and she transformed her entire house into a temple.

 

When she went to church [as that was the only "devotee" association that she had] she just thought of Krsna internally and sang with the choir. But her home was a temple and a sanctuary. She lived like that for forty years without having ever met one devotee. And I must say, perhaps she was even LUCKY (!) given the kinds of stuff that has gone on in the name of God.

 

 

 

Also, not only karma plays into it, but all of us our brains are wired differently: some people's brains are wired to handle cognitive dissonance. They are the people who can multi-task, be a receptionist, run a cash register: people persons. They are extroverts in the old school language or gifted and talented with Interpersonal Intelligence in the new school vernacular. Other folks are introverts or gifted and talented with Intrapersonal Intelligence.

 

So probably if you self-assess your own nature, everyone can probably find the perfect level of good association for their own psycho-social-emotional natures, by the grace of God of course (not a blade of grass etc.).

[Guest guest]

 

Dear Guest,

What you are saying on the one hand can work both ways protecting from institutional sectarianism or fundamentalist party spirit, but at the same time can keep one from much needed and recommended association.

 

 

Is association only to be found in an organisation? I don't think so.

 

As the first disciple of my Gurudeva in my country, I had to practise without any "association" for years since I was banned from Iskcon for taking diksha outside Iskcon. I spoke to my Gurudeva and he said that I could assocciate with our acarayas such as Srila Rupa Gosvami, Srila Bhativinoda Thakura, etc, by studying their books and singing their songs. This advice has served me well.

 

Organisations push the organisation's agenda, and demand loyality to the organisation. Did Mahaprabhu come to start organisations or instill bhakti in the heart of jivas?

 

If an organisation is fundamentalist, fanatical, extremist should I still associate with them just because they are devotees?

 

Unfortunately there is a tendency in western Vaisnavaism to apply a one-size-fits-all model to every single person that comes into contact with our religion. This is very dangerous to the growth of an individual and our religion.

 

Organisations exist for those that need them. Many people, like myself, don't need them.

 

There must be diversity of opinions within a religion for the religion to growth. Organisations stiffle diversity as having valid views different from the organisational herd results in being banned or condemed by the herd.

 

Iskcon, GM's, are meaningless to me. If they mean something to you, good for you.

[Guest guest]

Way to represent, theist! The one and only Sri Krishna Caitanya Mahaprabhu ki Jay!

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by Guest

Mira- don't go to Kripalu Maharaj. They discourage worshipping Sri Vigraha and Tulasi Maharani, they don't do japa and there is no diksha. Moreover, they think Kripalu is Krishna and Mahaprabhu rolled up into one, and worship him as such- as God. I hope nobody here thinks this is an OK, good thing.

 

Ditto that

[bija]

This mornings posts were so good to read. There is a huge diversity of personalities out there...introvert/extrovert etc....and by the Lord's mercy there seems to be association available in the world now for all types of people.

 

The stories about devotees only meeting there spiritual master once or practicing deeply Krsna consciousness by themselves, after finding one of Srila

Prabhupada's books are really inspiring. And very true. The introverted nature, even with many obstacles, can be very conducive to spiritual development as Sridas Prabhu has pointed out.

 

The Hare Krsna movement today has a strong preaching perspective, but in the Gaudiya tradition there has always been the solitary bhajana type personalities. Even if this approach has not been recommended by some acarya's due to concerns about qualification. Yet once the spiritual reality starts to manifest in the heart...are we ever truly alone?

 

But saying this...I think the strong urge for a joyous group kirtana of the Holy Names will always reside in our hearts.

[bija]

 

tulayama lavenapi

na svargam napunar-bhavam

bhagavat-sangi-sangasya

martyanam kim utasisah Srimad Bhagavatam Canto 1 ch 18 vs 13

 

translation by Srila Prabhupada : "The value of a moment's association with the devotee of the Lord cannot even be compared to the attainment of heavenly planets or liberation from matter, and what to speak of worldly benedictions in the form of material prosperity, which are for those who are meant for death."

 

alternate translation shared by my spiritual guide:

 

"There is no greater benediction for the mortals of this world than that of associating with those devotees who associate with the Lord constantly in form of His Name. Even a moment of such association is unlimitedly more fruitful than spending millions of years in the heavens and zillions in the brahmajyoti by attaining liberation."

Guru, sadhu's, and assembled devotees association always resides in the heart through sound vibration, and is never far away; by regular attachment to chanting of the Holy Names (kirtana) and the process of hearing (sravanam).

[Guest guest]

Have a look at www gva.in...

[Sridas]

 

Is association only to be found in an organisation? I don't think so.

 

 

No... I don't think so either. It all depends on what kind of association we are looking for. I personally live outside an organized or disorganized group of devotees. I like my freedom to tune to different events via TV if I wish. To get up or stay down for Brahma muhurta window, without pressure to observe a regimented program. I like my own space when appropriate, preferring not to share my bad-head days with others. Plus I can become aggitated if expected to do certain seva that superimposes on the currant of my own program. Hence a little selfish.

I know many vaisnava aquaintences living outside temples, maths, sangas and dhams whom I associate with and respect their independance, with whom I can share many things in common, if i can recognize the currant of vaisnava ettiquette and dedication flowing in that company, and they are not innimical to my own masters vani then I'm only too happy to associate.

 

At the same time I have many healthy relationships with friends and godbrethren who serve in small and larger communities organizing larger festivals and regulated programmes thru co-operative interaction, (many hands lighten the load), for the benefit of the general populous, giving access to the masses to participate in regular hearing, chanting and taking prasadam.

 

As the first disciple of my Gurudeva in my country, I had to practise without any "association" for years since I was banned from Iskcon for taking diksha outside Iskcon. I spoke to my Gurudeva and he said that I could assocciate with our acarayas such as Srila Rupa Gosvami, Srila Bhativinoda Thakura, etc, by studying their books and singing their songs. This advice has served me well.

 

No problems!

 

I too have had to start from scratch getting together with a handful of similar souls and canvassing to find others who could help us. Expanding into a larger sanga that developed various problems along the way as more and more souls came on board, sometimes disheartening almost tragic and ruinous other times enlivening and constructive, never boring but in certain ways it has at least allowed hundreds of floundering souls to have a chance to change their lives thru a connection to the family tree of Mahaprabhu, and now gives thousands more a glimse into the Krsna conception as practiced by those in the Sri Gauranga-Govinda-Sanga. Of course it is only a drop in the ocean but it may help one soul back home to God if they get it right , or it might even help millions if Krsna so desires.

 

Organisations push the organisation's agenda, and demand loyality to the organisation. Did Mahaprabhu come to start organisations or instill bhakti in the heart of jivas?

 

Some do. Loyalty isn't an ignoble quality. I know devotees who work within that framework, but manage to work around the pitfalls and ego based politics. Still relishing the substance, whilst living within the form, they just utilize it as in yukta vairagya to paint with a wider brush.

Mahaprabhu used the already established massive temple complex of Jugganath to live around and frequent, whilst distributing the audarya lila to the environment outside, thru his loyal and dedicated followers such as the Goswamis who established temples in Vrndavan.

Then I'd say Srila Prabhupad did both as do other acharyas.

Of coarse it's always open to misuse and political manipulation by misguided members, usually after the acharya departs this world but that doesn't mean it never works, it serves a purpose..

 

If an organisation is fundamentalist, fanatical, extremist should I still associate with them just because they are devotees?

 

Not nessacarily, some organizations can be down right dangerous, as can be some freewheeling associations like the various sahajiya sects of Bengal and elsewhere mentioned on these forums many a time.

 

Unfortunately there is a tendency in western Vaisnavaism to apply a one-size-fits-all model to every single person that comes into contact with our religion. This is very dangerous to the growth of an individual and our religion.

 

 

To those who see our path like that or the millions who practice it, then that is just their lack of spiritual maturity and vision. And it is more detrimental to the seer than to the movement of Mahaprabhu as we have discussed elsewhere the flow of Bhakti Devi shan't be checked. Wherever misconception may proliferate, she will just go around such obstuctions finding fresh fields and fertile landscapes to germinate and fluctify in, like mother Ganges.

Our Gaudiya guru varga is testment to the whimsical ways of Krsna's empowerment of various unique and distinctly diverse Acharyas presentations of the Gaura conception of divinity.

aher iva gatih premnah svabhava-kutila bhavet

 

That is the nature of love, it moves like a serpent... if we think WE only have Krsna in our clutchs, beware He has a wimsical heart of his own and will show up wherever He pleases, in the recluse, in the rock star, or the business CEO, or the 70 year old man in a foreign land, with only a set of karatahls in his hand... no followers.... no wealth... no visible support just a burning desire to fullfill the will of his guru, that he perceives as the nondifferent will of Krsna.

 

Organisations exist for those that need them. Many people, like myself, don't need them.

 

Fine ! But hypotheticly if you were to extend the gift you've been given by your gurudev to those less fortunate and that grew into a larger mission then some sort of organized presentation may be called for.

One of the reasons millions of people all over the world have had exposure to Krsna consciousness was due to the organization called Iskcon, although internally it is nonsectarian, for the benefit of the public the vessel of temples and centres and publishing and preaching activities had to be structured in such a way that people could approach for information.

From that initial architype, many now may practice those teachings in a multitude of different applications.

There must be diversity of opinions within a religion for the religion to growth. Organisations stiffle diversity as having valid views different from the organisational herd results in being banned or condemed by the herd.

 

Iskcon hasn't stiffled the diversity you see in the vaisnava culture we are wittnessing around the world today, or even if it has it in turn has spawned more diversity. As many of the movements mentioned in this thread are stemming from Iskcon and I'm sure there will more to come as individuals grow to a certain point and then branch out expanding according to their potency and capacity, into a multitude of variety as did the Gaudiya Math.

 

Iskcon, GM's, are meaningless to me. If they mean something to you, good for you.

 

I simply want all the sincere branches of Mahaprabhu's sankirtan yagna for this age, both individually and collectively, to be victorious according to their extention of the Lords mercy. Let them all adjust to the central Truth. And attract the myriad fallen souls to higher ground. The more that are, the more this planet has a chance of combatting misconception in it's extremely fanatical forms.

gaura premanandi hari bol

[bija]

Sridas, thank you for finding time to share your insights. It is exciting at times to see the dynamism of the ever expanding Caitanya tree. With all this fruit, gratitude must be expressed to that elderly gentleman who crossed the atlantic with a bag full of spuds (potatoes), a few rupees, and a truck load of faith. This divine Caitanya tree, with it's multitude of diverse fruits, will eternally offer shade and sustenance to all sincere seekers for a long long time to come.

[Sridas]

 

Sridas, thank you for finding time to share your insights. It is exciting at times to see the dynamism of the ever expanding Caitanya tree. With all this fruit, gratitude must be expressed to that elderly gentleman who crossed the atlantic with a bag full of spuds (potatoes), a few rupees, and a truck load of faith. This divine Caitanya tree, with it's multitude of diverse fruits, will eternally offer shade and sustenance to all sincere seekers for a long long time to come.

 

I'm fairly bankrupt on the insights account Bij, but if i can pass on anything my Lord and Master are giving, all credit goes to them. Really I am nothing without them. I occasionally hang out on the forums when I get some spare moments to share some Hari katha and draw my wayward thoughts, words and deeds to the centre, instead of entertaining the nonsense of the material dimention day and night.

 

Yes! there is no doubt, we are all truly eternally indebted to His Divine Grace.

 

I'm a little hesitant to speak this as it was revealed in confidence from Srila Swami Maharaj in his humility he never revealed it publicly, but the way i understand it is that he didn't wish to be criticised for airing such personal revelations in public, whilst he was walking amongst us.

So I heard that when he was travelling on the Jaladutta across the Atlantic and he went into cardiac arrest, he told that he thought he would'nt make it to the other side, then he revealed that his friend the most beautiful Lord Sri Krsna came to him personally and massaged his heart to life.

 

For any aspiring devotees I feel this is a wonderful testament of Faith that can help us all keep pushing on thru all adversity and seeming hoplessness.

Always give in-Never give up.

If the devotees don't lose hope thru all this misconception that abounds then The Tree of Mahaprabhu's Life no doubt has everything to offer this crazy mixed up world.

 

<CENTER>ashlishya va pada-ratam pinashtu mam

adarshanan marma-hatam karotu va

yatha tatha va vidadhatu lampato

mat-prana-nathas tu sa eva naparah

I know no one but Krsna as my Lord, and He shall remain so even if He handles me roughly by His embrace or makes me brokenhearted by not being present before me. He is completely free to do anything and everything, for He is always my worshipful Lord, unconditionally.</CENTER>

 

<CENTER>All Glories to Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu!</CENTER>

[Vrindavan]

some websites to check out

http://www.gaudiya.com/index.php?topic=resources

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaudiya_Vaishnavism

http://www.wva-vvrs.org/

http://www.bhagavatvani.com

http://1-krishna.com

[Guruvani]

http://scsmath.com/

 

[Jahnava Nitai Das]

I would also suggest you try to associate with Srila Prabhupada directly through his books and lectures. His association is divine and transcnedental, beyond all mundane designations.

[Guruvani]

I can understand the feelings of the starter of this topic.

From outside ISKCON looking in, nowadays it is a very sad picture.

There are the gurukula abuse scandals, the fallen guru scandals, the bureaucracy out of control situation, money problems, internal corruption, ritvik issues etc. etc.

 

I can fully understand why an ISKCON outsider who is in touch with internet media can have a very bleak picture of ISKCON nowadays.

 

I am just about convinced that it is time to throw in the towel on ISKCON and just accept that it's time is past, it's purpose has been served and we need to move on to a more broad grassroots form of the Krishna consciousness movement that has shed the dross of the institutional framework.

 

I think the monopoly of the ISKCON card-carrying GBC approved gurus needs to be defeated and all the disciples of Srila Prabhupada outside the ISKCON structure need to take on the responsibility of teaching, preaching and initiating people into Krishna consciousness.

 

It's time to reject, neglect and abandon the GBC authority as they no longer represent the will or the directions of Srila Prabhupada.

 

In the Daiva Varnashrama system, brahmanas are independent of any such thing as a GBC bureaucracy relevant to a particular Matha or institution.

Brahmanas do not need to answer to any such corperate body.

 

It's time that all the brahmanas that Srila Prabhupada initiated abandon the corrupt bureacracy, that is masquerading as Srila Prabhupada's representatives, and accept the actual authority and power that a brahmana is supposed to have.

 

Brahmanas owe no allegiance to any corrupt corperate agency.

 

We shouldn't cling to the GBC like a mother monkey clings to the body of her dead baby.

We need to move on and face the fact that the GBC is bogus now and has no authority to represent Srila Prabhupada.

 

Good-bye to the GBC, good-bye to ritvik!

It's time to do the needful and abandon the rotten bureaucracy.

[Guest guest]

The confusing squabble of responses , some chastising, others invoking specific preferences would be enough to scare anybody away. Mira's question was answered over all - Trying to find spiritual association in traditions that emphasize hierarchy and exclusivity is like trying to trying to have intimate friendships with government officials.

[Vikram Ramsundar]

Dear Miraji,

 

Just pray to your ista-deva with as pure and sincere a heart as possible, and humbly ask for guidance from within. Gaudiya Vaisnavism is a native Vedantic tradition that really does not need a corporate-type set-up for its continued existence and propagation. Today's ISKCON is a total no-no for most thinking persons who wish for sweet, genuine Vaisnava association. However, there are many offshoots from it (the ashrams of Tripurari Maharaja, Narasingha Maharaja etc) that do make for much better company. But if you find what you are looking for within ISKCON, there is no problem with that as well.

 

Otherwise, if you wish to consider my own two-paisa to be worth anything at all, I would favour going to one of the smaller Gaudiya Mathas, such as the groups led by Sripada Bhaktibibuddha Bodhayan Maharaja, Sripada Gopananda Bon Maharaja or Srila Bhaktikumuda Santa Maharaja. Just my personal preference - small societies that focus primarily on sadhana-bhakti and personal spiritual upliftment rather than raising funds, selling books, building temples or conducting wide-scale proselytizing. Having said this, there are undoubtedly larger Mathas which certainly have immense good to offer; here I'm referring to the descendent disciples of Srila Bhaktiraksaka Sridhara Maharaja and Srila Bhaktikevala Audulomi Maharaja PLUS the devotee organisations of living senior Sarasvata Vaisnavas such as Srila Bhaktivedanta Narayana Maharaja, Srila Bhakti Ballabha Tirtha Maharaja, Sripada Bhakti Aloka Paramadvaiti Maharaja and Srila Bhaktivaibhava Puri Maharaja.

 

Last but not least, do not forget the source of both the Gaudiya Matha and ISKCON, i.e. traditional Gaudiya Vaisnavism. Do not let yourself be in any way influenced by the foolish name-calling and denigrating (sahajiyas, imitators and other such trash) that is indulged in by many modern pseudo-Gaudiyas who have the gall to presume that they know better than people born and bred as devotees of Krsna and Mahaprabhu, and who literally eat Krsna, drink Krsna and sleep Krsna. Countless different places exist in the Vrndavana area, in Bengal and also in Orissa where you can obtain the extraordinary association of these traditional Caitanya Vaisnavas. For more information, you can log on to www.gaudiya.com, www.madangopal.com, www.madrasibaba.org, www.radhashyamsundar.com, and www.gambhira.com to name just a few. If you are interested, you can find many other links to orthodox Gaudiya lineages on these sites.

 

Finally, I wish you all the very best in your journey to transcendence.

 

Radhe Radhe

[Guruvani]

Don't let Vikram Babu encourage you in a bad, offensive mentality of classifying devotees as "ISKCON" and "NON-ISKCON" association.

 

If you approach Vaishnavism as "ISKCON" and "NON-ISKCON" you are committing offense to many Vaishnavas that should not be held to blame for the out-of-control ISKCON bureaucracy.

 

Some of the most wonderful Vaishnavas on Earth are "ISKCON" devotees, but certainly have nothing to do with the corperate quagmire that the ISKCON officials are entangled in.

 

There are many wonderful Vaishnavas that are members of ISKCON.

 

For example; Mahanidhi Swami, Pundarika Vidyanidhi das Brahamcary etc. etc.

There are literally hundreds of very nice Vaishnavas in ISKCON.

 

Of course the ISKCON bureaucracy has a difficult, thankless task but if you just write off ISKCON as not offering any wonderful Vaishnava association at all, then you have fallen into a very unfortunate condition that will prevent you from actually experiencing the essence of what the Gaudiya sampradaya offers.

 

A few bureaucrats with narrow vision and personal agendas does not render all of ISKCON as useless and undesirable.

 

Vikrama babu has very little qualification or experience with ISKCON to be making such negative remarks as "Today's ISKCON is a total no-no for most thinking persons who wish for sweet, genuine Vaisnava association".

 

In fact, that exposes him as having a very offensive attitude towards so many wonderful devotees that are making the sacrifice of their life to help spread the mission of Mahaprabhu all over the world.

 

Vikram is just an armchair devotee who really doen't have any history of practical service and sacrifice in the mission of Mahaprabhu, so he is not a good person to be taking advice from concerning the matter of Vaishnava assocation.