Guest guest Posted November 12, 2006 Report Share Posted November 12, 2006 Hi, I was wondering did Krishna visit Earth and if so was he a visitation of Shiva? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guruvani Posted November 12, 2006 Report Share Posted November 12, 2006 Hi, I was wondering did Krishna visit Earth and if so was he a visitation of Shiva? no. He was Krishna. Siva is a transformed aspect of Krishna, not the other way around. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ayodhya Posted November 12, 2006 Report Share Posted November 12, 2006 Guruvani, I think you confused him. Krishna is an avatar (reincarnation) of Vishnu, one of the Trinity. Vishnu is the Sustainer, Shiva is the Destroyer, and Brahma is the Creator. Vishnu took the form of Krishna on Earth, not Shiva. Yes, Krishna did exist and was real. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guruvani Posted November 12, 2006 Report Share Posted November 12, 2006 Guruvani, I think you confused him.Krishna is an avatar (reincarnation) of Vishnu, That is not the Gaudiya Vaishnava conclusion. Krishna is the source of Vishnu. Krishna is not an incarnation of Vishnu. That is what certain other Vaishnava systems believe, but that is not the Gaudiya Vaishnava position. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ayodhya Posted November 12, 2006 Report Share Posted November 12, 2006 Oops, sorry... But I still think you confused him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guruvani Posted November 12, 2006 Report Share Posted November 12, 2006 Oops, sorry... But I still think you confused him. Here is a good article that explains the incarnations of God. http://www.indiadivine.org/hinduism/articles/85/1/Avatar---the-Science-of-the-Lords-Descent/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 12, 2006 Report Share Posted November 12, 2006 Shivaites think that it all came from Shiva; Gaudiya Vaisnavas think it all came from Krsna. You say potato, I say potahto. The residents of Vrndavana thought Narayana was God and that Krsna was just a Naughty Little Boy who could get easily hurt and needed to be punished from time to time. It all depends on who your Istha Devata is, that flavors your angle of vision. For every scripture that says Krsna is all of that, there is another scripture saying something else. Sri Chaitanya said that God has hundreds and millions of names, but unfortunately I have no attraction for Them; I prefer to argue with other people about whose God is the best God instead. Or something like that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guruvani Posted November 12, 2006 Report Share Posted November 12, 2006 Srila Prabhupada explains in the introduction to Srimad Bhagavatam that actually the concept of God and the concept of the Absolute Truth are different. The conception of God and the conception of Absolute Truth are not on the same level. The Srimad-Bhagavatam hits on the target of the Absolute Truth. The conception of God indicates the controller, whereas the conception of the Absolute Truth indicates the summum bonum or the ultimate source of all energies. So, there is no shastra that I know of that proclaims Shiva or any other god as the Absolute Truth. The commentary on the Vedanta Sutra by the same author Vyasadeva explains in Srimad Bhagavatam that Krishna is the Absolute Truth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bishadi Posted November 15, 2006 Report Share Posted November 15, 2006 Srila Prabhupada explains in the introduction to Srimad Bhagavatam that actually the concept of God and the concept of the Absolute Truth are different. So, there is no shastra that I know of that proclaims Shiva or any other god as the Absolute Truth. The commentary on the Vedanta Sutra by the same author Vyasadeva explains in Srimad Bhagavatam that Krishna is the Absolute Truth. The conception of God and the conception of Absolute Truth are not on the same level. The Srimad-Bhagavatam hits on the target of the Absolute Truth. The conception of God indicates the controller, whereas the conception of the Absolute Truth indicates the summum bonum or the ultimate source of all energies You read that wrong. There is no pure conception of God without the Absolute Truth. Because Srila knew there is no controller but a sum of the total; GOD! Hard to conceptualize isn't it? But like most real prophets, they know but how to convey is the art and since NO man has brought both the sciences and theology together in real physical application. The truth is not yet revealed, well a least to the open public just yet! Just wait or just ask, that is your choice! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ananda Posted November 15, 2006 Report Share Posted November 15, 2006 Hare Krishna! Gauravani has nicely put, difference God and the Supreme absolute truth-Krishna. Yes, Krishna is the Absolute Truth and the source of all there is. There is no scritpure on this planet (any scripture Vedic, and Non-vedic) that says that one is a Supreme Absolute Truth, only Krishna proclaimes Himself in the Gita and Vyasadev who compiled the Vedic Scritpure, says so. Many quotes like Krishnas Tu Bhagavan Swayam Govindam Adi Purusham Vaasudevam Sarvam Iti Ishvarah Parmaha Krishna.....sarva Karana Karanaam Chapter 9 of the Bhagavad Gita...talks about the Supremacy of Krishna and ofcourse the first sloka...janmādy asya yato in the Srimad Bhagavatam So...to club everything into one amalgam in a melting pot saying Vishnu, Krishna, Siva are different flavors is stupid and blasphemous. There is no place in the scriptures that say everything is the same like the melting pot. Everyone is real and there is an order and Krishna is on the top and no one is equal to or above Him. This was the CONCLUSION of Sage VedaVyas who has given us the foundation of our so called HINDUISM that in India people say they follow. He is the author and so we should accept Sage Vedvyas's conclusion. Haribol! anand Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bishadi Posted November 15, 2006 Report Share Posted November 15, 2006 Hare Krishna! Gauravani has nicely put, difference God and the Supreme absolute truth-Krishna. Read that again please <?xml:namespace prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-comKrishna</SPAN></st1:place> is the Absolute Truth and the source of all there is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 15, 2006 Report Share Posted November 15, 2006 Hare Krishna!There is no scritpure on this planet (any scripture Vedic, and Non-vedic) that says that one is a Supreme Absolute Truth, only Krishna proclaimes Himself in the Gita and Vyasadev who compiled the Vedic Scritpure, says so. Just to be fair and just in case I misinterpreted your point. In Hindu traditions, Kalki (कल्कि) (also rendered by some as Kalkin and Kalaki) is the tenth and final Maha Avatara (Great Avatar) of Vishnu the Preserver, who will come to end the current Kali Yuga, (The Age of Darkness and Destruction). The name Kalki is often a metaphor for "Eternity" or "Time". The origins of the name probably lie in the word Kalka which refers to "dirt", "filth" or "foulness" and hence denotes the "Destroyer of Foulness", "Destroyer of Confusion", "Destroyer of Darkness", or "The Annihilator of Ignorance". In Hindi kal ki avatar means "tomorrow's avatar". Other similar and divergent interpretations (based on varying etymological derivations from the ancient Sanskrit language, —including one simply meaning "White Horse") have been made Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guruvani Posted November 15, 2006 Report Share Posted November 15, 2006 In the Vedic pantheon there are many gods. Brahma is the creator God who masterminded the universe and created planets and living beings from his mental powers. Lord Siva is the God of destruction and all destructive forces such as ignorance etc. Lord Vishnu is the God who sustains and maintains the universe - the universe rests on his energy. Indra is the god of rain. Agni is the god of fire. Surya is the Sun god. Chandra is the Moon god etc. etc. etc. So, there are many gods but only ONE absolute truth from which even Lord Vishnu is a partial manifestation. That Absolute Truth that is the resting place and the source of brahman is Lord Krishna. As such, he is not just one of the many gods with delegated powers. He is the summum bonum from which all things emanate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bishadi Posted November 16, 2006 Report Share Posted November 16, 2006 Srila Prabhupada explains in the introduction to Srimad Bhagavatam that actually the concept of God and the concept of the Absolute Truth are different. The conception of God and the conception of Absolute Truth are not on the same level. The Srimad-Bhagavatam hits on the target of the Absolute Truth. The conception of God indicates the controller, whereas the conception of the Absolute Truth indicates the summum bonum or the ultimate source of all energies So, there is no shastra that I know of that proclaims Shiva or any other god as the Absolute Truth. The commentary on the Vedanta Sutra by the same author Vyasadeva explains in Srimad Bhagavatam that Krishna is the Absolute Truth. 'whereas the conception of the Absolute Truth indicates the summum bonum or the ultimate source of all energies' The sciences and theology will be married, get over it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bishadi Posted November 16, 2006 Report Share Posted November 16, 2006 In the Vedic pantheon there are many gods. Theology.... He is the summum bonum from which all things emanate. The sciences ... one and one and one is 3, ..... got to be a joker he just do as he please, come together .... right now .... over me! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sumedh Posted November 18, 2006 Report Share Posted November 18, 2006 Haribol You read that wrong. There is no pure conception of God without the Absolute Truth. Because Srila knew there is no controller but a sum of the total; GOD! Srila Prabhupada is refererring to the fact that the concept of God in western theologies is quite different from Brahman of Vedic scriptures. In essence, the concept of God as in the western theology would not be adequate to be qualified as Param-Brahman as described in the Vedas. since NO man has brought both the sciences and theology together in real physical application. These conceptions arise due to being exposed to (mostly) western prophet born theologies and the like. Imagining Vedanta to be likewise is a grave error. Vedanta study starts by examining what constitutes an evidence (pramana), what evidences should be accepted in which spheres and what should not be etc. It accepts mainly three evidences, pratyaksha (direct perception), shabd, anumana while the others found in Nyaya and other systems of logic can be reduced to them. While pratyaksha is accepted as a pramana for indriya vishaya (those that fall in the realm of sense perception), shabd is the only pramana for atindriya vishaya (those beyond senses). The need for establishing that there exist subjects beyond the sense perception arises, and is satisfied first in Vedanta (thus ruling out Charvaka and the like theories). Admittedly, the concept of shabd pramana is hard to understand but should not be surprising given the experience that even many worldly subjects are not simple. The Vedas are accepted because they constitute the shabd pramana, and thus also those vedic scriptures that follow the vedas. Modern day science would qualify as a pratyaksha evidence, though it is likely that most of it would not be accepted for being unable to meet the standards as normally required in Vedanta. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 27, 2007 Report Share Posted June 27, 2007 What if 'no turth' is absolute truth ? i.e. Krishna ?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 27, 2007 Report Share Posted June 27, 2007 OM krishnay Wasudevay haraye param-aatmane , pranataha klesh nashanay govinday namo namaha !!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 27, 2007 Report Share Posted June 27, 2007 In the Vedic pantheon there are many gods.Brahma is the creator God who masterminded the universe and created planets and living beings from his mental powers. Lord Siva is the God of destruction and all destructive forces such as ignorance etc. Lord Vishnu is the God who sustains and maintains the universe - the universe rests on his energy. Indra is the god of rain. Agni is the god of fire. Surya is the Sun god. Chandra is the Moon god etc. etc. etc. So, there are many gods but only ONE absolute truth from which even Lord Vishnu is a partial manifestation. That Absolute Truth that is the resting place and the source of brahman is Lord Krishna. As such, he is not just one of the many gods with delegated powers. He is the summum bonum from which all things emanate. Interesting post. (i'm completly unknown with the differences between "vedic"/"hindu"/etc schools. I've got one question: Is this, the information in post that you write,- accepted by all "schools"? some other questions: 1. is trinity accepted by all scholls? (vishnu,siva,brahma) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guruvani Posted June 27, 2007 Report Share Posted June 27, 2007 Interesting post. (i'm completly unknown with the differences between "vedic"/"hindu"/etc schools. I've got one question: Is this, the information in post that you write,- accepted by all "schools"? some other questions: 1. is trinity accepted by all scholls? (vishnu,siva,brahma) I am not sure what schools you refer too. But, this trinity is accepted by any school of Vaishnava that accepts the authority of the Puranas and especially the Bhagavat Purana which is the principle authority on which the Gaudiya Vaishnavas establish their philosophical doctrine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 27, 2007 Report Share Posted June 27, 2007 to give some starting point (as i understand it): Major Branches of Hinduism Branch Number of Adherents Vaishnavites 580,000,000 Shaivites 220,000,000 neo-Hindus and reform Hindus 22,000,000 Veerashaivas (Lingayats) 10,000,000 This schools, i mean. It looks like there are 4 major schools (out of hinduism). I assume Gaudya Vaishnava is from Vaishnavites (btw-is it the only one from Vaishnavites). And i'm interested if all this schools and their "main branches" accept One God above the trinity? (or is, the difference even here; that some doesnt accept even trinity etc) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guruvani Posted June 27, 2007 Report Share Posted June 27, 2007 to give some starting point (as i understand it): This schools, i mean. It looks like there are 4 major schools (out of hinduism). I assume Gaudya Vaishnava is from Vaishnavites (btw-is it the only one from Vaishnavites). And i'm interested if all this schools and their "main branches" accept One God above the trinity? (or is, the difference even here; that some doesnt accept even trinity etc) probably if you do a google search on these different sects you can find out something about their doctrines. India has hundreds of cults and sects even in "Hinduism". Beliefs vary from sect to sect and cult to cult. Most all Hindus know of the trinity gods of Vishnu, Siva and Brahma. But, whether or not they consider them as the "trinity" as we are discussing here varies from sect to sect. It's hard to give a patent answer to your question, as there are hundreds of sects in Hinduism. Within each sect there are still different opinions, so really it is not possible to give a yes or no answer to your question. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 27, 2007 Report Share Posted June 27, 2007 Biased moderators!!! JN Das!! Be fair!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin5 Posted June 27, 2007 Report Share Posted June 27, 2007 JN das does not moderate the forums. He hasn't for a few years. He does not even have much time to visit the forums any more. We mainly remove posts that are insulting or lead to arguments. You notice the posts of yours that have been removed, since you are aware of what you have posted, but, when you come back, you do not see the ones of others, that have also been removed, which were insulting towards you. Any point of view on an issue is allowed, but if a post contain insults, or has the likelihood of moving the thread in that direction, the post (or parts of the post) will be removed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bishadi Posted July 2, 2007 Report Share Posted July 2, 2007 What if 'no turth' is absolute truth ? i.e. Krishna ?? Then what is you? Trinities and beliefs are often shared as law, some arms are thought in use but neither have a physical hand to hold a glass of water. The 2 guises of balance are simply the one point of view yet in view is the function of how it works; truth. Simply put, the answer is to remove the self to recognize Krishna; the combining conscious each posses. Where the rendition of other arms are simply manifestations of a trait. See the Zodiak to further this line of thought. the fact is each of reasoned thought is capable to Understand but the ease of complacency offers a path with ritual to feel still unable to know. Why? Acceptance! It's normal .... want the truth read and withstand being accepted, most good teachers were never accepted during their tenure, but the honest ones are still alive in what was given.... see the difference? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You are posting as a guest. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.