Guest guest Posted July 5, 2007 Report Share Posted July 5, 2007 Very appreciable post. I think Guruvani is not even a pure Iskcon, but more of a Ritvik - a break away from Iskcon sub cult. Its still the same ideology and Hindus, Hinduism and Shiva bashing tactics. Their agenda is to put Hinduism down claiming that Indian gods are not property of Hindus and that they are the only one preaching so called 'Krsna consciousness' and rest is BS. Hinduism is hodge-podge trash. This is what they preach and I'm witness to it a hundred times in different places by different people. How pathetic!! The tolerance of we Hindus are tested to the limits,i mean before i posted the Ganapathiyai Namah posting not one posting was ending without Bashing Shiva and other gods and most of those who did it were like GURUVANI who were all partying all their life and once they get old or get miserable turn their attention to ISKCON and talk as if they know Hinduism more than we do. This is not just pathetic but atrocious as they have no right to discuss our great religion,who are these people anyway?Its a shame that a traitor from our holy land Prabupada was responsible for sowing the seeds of Krsna bakthi and in turn ridiculing and floating stories as to how Lord Shiva was just a devotee of Krsna,i was so upset to hear this thru a Hindu(Indian)and what a way to find out about our gods thru these Ritviks,these is a huge sin from their part and people like Prabupada sold our religion in exchange of Dollars and now we are paying for it by having to listen to this nonsense. Christians found a new way to preach Anti Hindu sentiments..that is all i can say...I hope ISKCON is not popular in India or else Hinduism will die a slow death.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 5, 2007 Report Share Posted July 5, 2007 The tolerance of we Hindus are tested to the limits,i mean before i posted the Ganapathiyai Namah posting not one posting was ending without Bashing Shiva and other gods and most of those who did it were like GURUVANI who were all partying all their life and once they get old or get miserable turn their attention to ISKCON and talk as if they know Hinduism more than we do.This is not just pathetic but atrocious as they have no right to discuss our great religion,who are these people anyway?Its a shame that a traitor from our holy land Prabupada was responsible for sowing the seeds of Krsna bakthi and in turn ridiculing and floating stories as to how Lord Shiva was just a devotee of Krsna,i was so upset to hear this thru a Hindu(Indian)and what a way to find out about our gods thru these Ritviks,these is a huge sin from their part and people like Prabupada sold our religion in exchange of Dollars and now we are paying for it by having to listen to this nonsense. Christians found a new way to preach Anti Hindu sentiments..that is all i can say...I hope ISKCON is not popular in India or else Hinduism will die a slow death.. Well yes and they ignore how Krsna worshipped Shiva and he himself nerrated the story of his worshipping Shiva to Yudhishthira in Mahabharata. I talked to a person from this forum and he said that it could be cooked up. lol! They don't want to believe it!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guruvani Posted July 5, 2007 Report Share Posted July 5, 2007 Vaishnavas are the majority of Hindus in India, so I would have to say that the Shaiva beliefs are in the minority. Most Hindus are Vaishnava. I have seen many thousands of Hindu coming to ISKCON temples. Shaivites are minority among Hindu. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 5, 2007 Report Share Posted July 5, 2007 Vaishnavas are the majority of Hindus in India, so I would have to say that the Shaiva beliefs are in the minority.Most Hindus are Vaishnava. I have seen many thousands of Hindu coming to ISKCON temples. Shaivites are minority among Hindu. oh give me a break! This is another iskcon false propaganda. Hindus go to any temple period. Hindus have respects for any form of God. They are not like Iskcon who won't step into a Shiva temple or not celebrate Shivratri or bash those of themselves who did. Hindus celebrate Shivratri and Krishna janamashtami with equal fervor, joy and devotion. But this may be true that Shiva followers don't do lavish rath yatras and propaganda mass picnics. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 5, 2007 Report Share Posted July 5, 2007 Vaishnavas are the majority of Hindus in India, so I would have to say that the Shaiva beliefs are in the minority.Most Hindus are Vaishnava. I have seen many thousands of Hindu coming to ISKCON temples. Shaivites are minority among Hindu. As a matter of fact, there are more Ganesh, Hanuman and Shiva Lingas in India than Krishna temples. And most Hindu temples have Krishna and Shiva idols on an equal platform. And nobody gives a crap about majority-minority scuffle as is propagate by closed minded people like yourself. And on the other hand, a majority people thing doesn't really prove superiority in any way. There is one Lion and cattle are in majority. so what? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guruvani Posted July 5, 2007 Report Share Posted July 5, 2007 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vaishnavism According to recent statistics Vaishnavas make up approximately 70% of the total of all followers of Hinduism <sup id="_ref-0" class="reference">[1]</sup> with the vast majority of these being in India. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 5, 2007 Report Share Posted July 5, 2007 Well yes and they ignore how Krsna worshipped Shiva and he himself nerrated the story of his worshipping Shiva to Yudhishthira in Mahabharata. I talked to a person from this forum and he said that it could be cooked up. lol! They don't want to believe it!! Guys thanks for all the good posting about Hinduism and how misleading these ISKCONIs are,take look at my posting about the Great Lord Ganapathi son of the Adhidevata(oldest God)Maheswara and you can see for yourself how misleading these guys are trying to be,disguising themselves as Theist,they just trash talk Hindu GODS and glorify only Krsna(note their own naming of him)and its getting to divide Hindus(atleast in USA) I cant stand when people call Shiva Demi GOD,he is the most worshipped Diety in India and Trinity of GODS are never compared and degraded by uplifting one and putting down the other except by these people.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guruvani Posted July 5, 2007 Report Share Posted July 5, 2007 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 5, 2007 Report Share Posted July 5, 2007 Vaishnavas are the majority of Hindus in India, so I would have to say that the Shaiva beliefs are in the minority.Most Hindus are Vaishnava. I have seen many thousands of Hindu coming to ISKCON temples. Shaivites are minority among Hindu. Guruvani,you are american and did you ever been to India,dont tell us Hindus which god is most worshiped and which faith is more followed in India. Quit lieing and stop these false propaganda against our Great religion,we Hindus are tolerant but do not mis use it and mislead people. From where did you come up with the statistics of Shaivaites being Minorities among Hindus,if you think that way then come to India and say this and see what the reaction is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guruvani Posted July 5, 2007 Report Share Posted July 5, 2007 Siva meditating on Lord Sankarsana his ishta-devata. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 5, 2007 Report Share Posted July 5, 2007 wikipedia - vaishnavism... lol ok. not that wikipedia can change Hinduism and its culture by giving its judgement, but Did know that Narayan came to this earth and in his major Vaishnava avataras worshipped Lord shiva? Vaman Avatara, Ram Avatara, Krsna avatara.. Very good I say. Jai shri Krishna! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 5, 2007 Report Share Posted July 5, 2007 Yea well said,i was shocked when Desis who live in USA also start talking like that and call Shiva the number one devotee of Vishnu and all gods as Demigods etc...i mean how fast can people be brainwashed if a foreigner tells them something..All Hindus who feel like us lets keep in touch and share our funny ISKCON stories...email me at mvenky_99@ dot com... Yes i cant believe how someone can be so close minded and read Prabupada for 10 hrs and wait for their tickets to GOLOKA..Guruvani and co must be really bored and over the hill to follow such a lifestyle..feel sorry for them.. I also agree with the Guest who said that we Hindus go to any Hindu temple and not restrict ourselves to just Shiva or Vishnu and the truth is the 1000s of gods we have had so many puranas that not just the Dasavathara but their leelas are more interesting,like Shivas thiruvilayadal(divine plays)are great too,but these guys claim its all krsna pasttimes that we are part of. I guess they keep adding to this by their creativity from time to time Om Namah Shivayah Jai Sree Ram Jai Mata Dee yes they get this Prabhuji Mataji thing and saying stuff like DemiGod and being offensive. But Its only one way offense. I mean they can offend Hindus and shiva and Gods, but if you don't agree with them, they tell you its offensive and Vaishnava aparadha etc scare tactic. One direct disciple of Prabhupada even told me that it is very offensive to put Lord Shiva next to Krishna on an altar!! I said what? lol! We've been doing that all our lives! And Krsna never came in my dream to say anything against it! Its pretty much control thing and very judgmental society. I don't think a truly spiritual society can be like that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 5, 2007 Report Share Posted July 5, 2007 You guys are thinking on the mental platform. God is not someone that you can project according to your whims and fancies. God is GOD no matter what your agenda is. So I'm sorry to say that your limited brain capability may tell you that all Gods are one but it is not a fact. yes they get this Prabhuji Mataji thing and saying stuff like DemiGod and being offensive. But Its only one way offense. I mean they can offend Hindus and shiva and Gods, but if you don't agree with them, they tell you its offensive and Vaishnava aparadha etc scare tactic. One direct disciple of Prabhupada even told me that it is very offensive to put Lord Shiva next to Krishna on an altar!! I said what? lol! We've been doing that all our lives! And Krsna never came in my dream to say anything against it! Its pretty much control thing and very judgmental society. I don't think a truly spiritual society can be like that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 5, 2007 Report Share Posted July 5, 2007 yes please do email me,actually when i created the thread on Ganapathi today my intention was to remind us Hindus that we dont have to just be quiet and let the false propaganda continue,i was glad that lot of people joined me in it and showed in the best possible way how knowledgable we Hindus are when it comes to religion,we are the most open minded and oldest religion in history,Advaitam,Shanmatham and most Shaivaite Puranas are so great that it shows GOD as not only so kind but also the most closest to us and not a dictator. For example these ISKCONis bash Shiva,if they think for a moment even the pure devotees of Shiva were living like GODs,ex Ravana,then imagine the powers of Shiva himself. All Hindus keep emailing we will also form our groups and remind our fellow Hindus not to fall into the Monotheistic mode of worship.And yea there is lot more fun to exchange stories... I have lived in USA for 10 years and last 3 or 4 years i came across ISKCONis(Indians) and they were sooooooooooooo funny. One guy was telling me Lord Krishna had 60000 wives etc...it was hilarious.. Yes it was nice of you to voice these concerns. And glad there are still mroe people reading and writing in the forum and not just Hare Krsnas. I've nothing against Krishna worship. Its wonderful. And its part of hindu culture. But if you read their philosophy, you will know that they hardly think that Hindus are any knowledgeable unless they can defeat them in their way of Vedantik counter reasoning with with quotes on quotes. And the trick is that they accept only quotes from Bhagwatam and Gita and a few parts of PadmaPurana. And only those parts that are acceptable to them and only the version of Gita and Bhagwatam translated and purported by Prabhupada. Nothing else! If you quote Shiva mahapurana or Devi Bhagwat or Shiv samhita, they will reject that as "Tamsik" and not acceptable and meant for people with "low intelligence". What's more, not everything is acceptable from Gita too. And not everything acceptable that Lord Krishna said. So there are many bhed-bhav and double standards in everything from philosophy to practical. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 6, 2007 Report Share Posted July 6, 2007 No one can imagine Krishna's happiness and no one can imagine the opposite of it. Same for his knowledge. They are all infinitely increasing. This is his acintya-shakti. No one can ever possess it or else in this condition they are to be known as the Supreme Person. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 6, 2007 Report Share Posted July 6, 2007 No one can imagine Krishna's happiness and no one can imagine the opposite of it. Same for his knowledge. They are all infinitely increasing. This is his acintya-shakti. No one can ever possess it or else in this condition they are to be known as the Supreme Person. Ya ya right,then how the hell did you know about all this?If no one knows then maybe it doesnt even exists. No one can imagine how big Shivas happiness is No one can imagine how big Murugas happiness is The list will go on.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 7, 2007 Report Share Posted July 7, 2007 Ya ya right,then how the hell did you know about all this?If no one knows then maybe it doesnt even exists. No one can imagine how big Shivas happiness is No one can imagine how big Murugas happiness is The list will go on.. Yes well said!! There is a lot of speculation and double standards in this cult. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guliaditya Posted February 16, 2008 Report Share Posted February 16, 2008 Respected All, What was the conclusion drawn???? Yours Aditya Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suchandra Posted February 16, 2008 Report Share Posted February 16, 2008 Respected All, What was the conclusion drawn???? Yours Aditya Dear Aditya, welcome at audarya-fellowship, what conclusion was drawn? Something like, the influence of the material energy cannot touch Lord Vishnu as she touches Lord Brahmā and Lord Śiva. Therefore it is said that Lord Vishnu is transcendental to the material qualities. The incarnations of the material qualities—Lord Śiva and Lord Brahmā—are under the jurisdiction of the external energy. Lord Vishnu, however, is different. In the mantras of the Rig Veda it is said, om tad vishnoh paramam padam (Rig Veda-samhitā 1.22.20). The words paramah padam indicate that Lord Vishnu is transcendental to the material qualities. Because Lord Vishnu is not within the jurisdiction of the material qualities, He is always superior to the living entities who are controlled by the material energy. This is one of the differences between the Supreme Lord and the living entities. Lord Brahmā is a very powerful living entity, and Lord Śiva is even more powerful. Therefore Lord Śiva is not accepted as a living entity, but at the same time Lord Śiva is not considered to be on the level of Lord Vishnu. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LoveroftheBhagavata Posted February 16, 2008 Report Share Posted February 16, 2008 Therefore Lord Śiva is not accepted as a living entity, but at the same time Lord Śiva is not considered to be on the level of Lord Vishnu. Still, Lord Sadashiva is God in all respects and has His eternal dhama beyond the mahat-tattva, and this is communicated to us by none other than our sambandha-acarya, Srila Sanatana Gosvamipada, in his magnum opus, the Brhad-Bhagavatamrta. Sanatana Gosvami himself went to pay his obeisances to Chakaleshvara Shiva at Manasi-Ganga on a daily basis. Of course, Krishna is Svayam-Bhagavan, and I accept that without giving a toss as to whether my faith is confirmed by others or not. And I reckon that most Gaudiya devotees should adopt this sort of attitude, instead of frittering valuable time and energy arguing pointlessly. The Internet can be a useful resource for us all to increase our sraddha, not to behave like kanistha adolescents shouting at the top of their voices stuff such as: "My God is more powerful than yours." As a matter of fact, this doesn't befit folks who profess to be following Mahaprabhu. Let those who want to wallow in this brand of baseness indulge themselves to their hearts' content, but let us, for our part, evince an iota of maturity in not permitting ourselves to embarrass our sampradaya through such. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
new---new Posted February 16, 2008 Report Share Posted February 16, 2008 hare krishna suchandra ...... if you dont mind can you please change you signature to hare ram hare ram ram ram hare hare ..... because there is a difference between ram and rama ..... and as far as i remember ..prabhupada always chanted ram and not rama.... but then i just checked one of his audios ...... perhaps you have more .... please check it for yourself .....ofcourse in bhakti any thing is allowed ....but better to follow the guru..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suchandra Posted February 16, 2008 Report Share Posted February 16, 2008 hare krishna suchandra ...... if you dont mind can you please change you signature to hare ram hare ram ram ram hare hare ..... because there is a difference between ram and rama ..... and as far as i remember ..prabhupada always chanted ram and not rama.... but then i just checked one of his audios ...... perhaps you have more .... please check it for yourself .....ofcourse in bhakti any thing is allowed ....but better to follow the guru..... No, on the path of bhakti-yoga not anything is allowed, and no, you're wrong again, it is written Rama not Ram. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hare_Krishna Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
new---new Posted February 16, 2008 Report Share Posted February 16, 2008 so be it.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shakti-Fan Posted February 16, 2008 Report Share Posted February 16, 2008 No, on the path of bhakti-yoga not anything is allowed, and no, you're wrong again, it is written Rama not Ram. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hare_Krishna No matter what mundane authorities have written, whether it is written Rama or Ram is arbitrary like whether maharaja is spelled like this or like - maharaj. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guliaditya Posted February 18, 2008 Report Share Posted February 18, 2008 As per my view both are supreme i.e. Lord Vishnu & Lord Shiva. In what sense I have told, I will elaborate it. Lord Vishnu/Narayana is undoubtedly supreme personality. No boy equal or greater. All the scriptures, acharyas, have concluded this. Lord Shiva on other hand is the Supreme devotee of Lord Narayana. It is also confirmed in all the scriptures. In my opinion every person irrespective of sampradaya should pay his/her obeisance to Lord Shiva & then worship Lord Narayana. Below are the quotes which are told by Lord Shiva only. ekam sastram devaki-putra-gitam eko devo devaki-putra eva eko mantras tasya namani yani karmapy ekam tasya devasya seva This one shloka is sufficient to validate my both the points. Pls forgive me for any offense Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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