Official Ramakanta vs. IRM discussion thread

[Guest guest]

Posted by Yaduraja Nov 06, 2006:

 

Dear Ramakanta prabhu,

PAMHO, AGTSP,

You pompously boast:

 

> Yes, I refuse to speculate.

 

So you obviously have no firm information on exactly when, where and how

Srila Prabhupada authorised his replacement as ISKCON’s sole diksa guru.

Neither does the GBC so you are in very ‘eminent’ company on that one.

 

> This is fuzzy because you did not explain what you mean by "physically

> present before" and "physically meet". Do you mean that their gross

> material bodies must touch each other, or what?

 

Your position on this is not just fuzzy, but completely self-contradictory.

You need to decide whether or not the guru must be physically present on the

same planet as the disciple in order to deliver him.

 

If he does, then obviously none of Srila Prabhupada’s disciples, and

certainly no followers of those disciples, can currently be delivered. In

which case what is the point in this debate, since whoever is right, no-one

is going to be delivered anyway!!!

 

once again this is the IRM’s position:

 

"Srila Prabhupada remains within this material universe, though not

necessarily in the physical presence of his disciples, in order to continue

delivering them so they can be ‘transferred to the spiritual sky’."

 

The above is free from speculation since it is consistent with Srila

Prabhupada’s teachings, and hence his mercy.

 

Regarding the following quote:

 

"My Guru Maharaja used to say like that, that "Finish this business in this

life. Don't delay for the next life." He was telling also that "Don't give

me trouble again to come here to deliver you." That is the responsibility of

spiritual master. Spiritual master responsibility is to take the disciple to

Krsna, until he is able to do, to help him, to help him, to help him. That

is the verdict of the sastras. Just like Bilvamangala Thakura. His spiritual

master delivered him, taking the shape of a prostitute. So these stories are

there." (Lecture on SB 6.3.18, Feb 11, 1971)

 

You ask:

 

> If the spiritual master does not have to be present (incarnated) on the

> same planet as his disciple to deliver his disciple, as you claim, then

> why did Srila Prabhupada quote his Guru Maharaja saying that he has to

> come here?

 

If your challenge had any merit then obviously no-one connected to ISKCON,

in any way shape or form, for the last three decades could have been be

delivered, since, so far as we are aware, Srila Prabhupada has not been on

this particular planet for that entire period.

 

Please clarify if this is your position, why should I be the only person who

has the decency to answer questions?

 

You previously challenged even this notion-that Srila Prabhupada is

physically absent from this planet- (not realising that either way we must

still follow the July 9th directive) such was your utter confusion during

your previous speculative period- (up till your last post) -thankfully now

behind us.

 

In the quote you gave could you please tell me the exact geographical

location the word ‘here’ refers to, without speculating, since you don't do

that any more?

 

Best wishes

Ys

Yadu