Official Ramakanta vs. IRM discussion thread

[Guest guest]

Posted by Yaduraja on Nov 08, 2006:

 

Dear Ramakanta prabhu,

PAMHO, AGTSP,

 

I had written:

 

"So you obviously have no firm information on exactly when, where and how

Srila Prabhupada authorised his replacement as ISKCON’s sole diksa guru."

 

To which you enquire:

 

> And what (regarding your point c) do you conclude from that?

 

The fact that you have no idea how, when and where Srila Prabhupada

authorised his replacement means you, like us, are ONLY sure that he

established himself as the sole diksa guru for ISKCON in 1966, and that the

GBC have offered no evidence showing how they were authorised to ever change

that situation.

 

Without evidence authorising a change to this status quo then point c)

remains intact. Yet despite this glaringly obvious fact- that you have no

idea of any evidence constituting an alternative to point c)- you have

wasted over a year trying to challenge Srila Prabhupada’s status as the sole

diksa guru for ISKCON, and many years prior to that totally disobeying that

status quo by promoting Haricash. Perhaps you should follow the following

good advice:

 

Prabhupada: Then why you are speaking? You do not know. Don’t talk.

(laughter) Then you learn. If you do not know, then you learn who knows.

Don’t talk.

 

I am very happy to see that you are now trying to curtail your tendency to

speculate by at least attempting to remove gross self-contradictions from

your argumentation:

 

> Anyway, here is again my position:

>

> "Srila Prabhupada cannot deliver disciples on this planet without being

> present (incarnated) on this planet (not necessarily during the whole

> lifetime of his disciples)."

 

Of course the first half of the above is still contradicted by the words in

parenthesis, unless your position is that every single one of Srila

Prabhupada's estimated 10,000 disciples was transferred to the spiritual sky

on or before November 14th 1977.

 

Since the words:

 

> (not necessarily during the whole lifetime of his disciples)

(Ramakanta das)

 

Come after:

 

> "Srila Prabhupada cannot deliver disciples on this planet without being

> present (incarnated) on this planet..."

(Ramakanta das)

 

and since you wrote:

 

> So in case you did not realize it, my later statement supersedes my

> earlier statement

 

I shall take it for now that you really agree with the IRM (unless you wish

to argue that what we see as Srila Prabhupada's original disciples, milling

around various ISKCON facilities, are actually some type of optical illusion

since they were already transferred to the spiritual sky in 1977).

 

If Srila Prabhupada does not need to be physically present on the same

planet as his disciple for ‘the whole lifetime of his disciple’ then this

means the guru does not necessarily have to be physically present in order

to deliver his disciples by transferring them back to the spiritual sky. In

which case you agree with us. So there is obviously no need to continue with

this point since, as it stands, it has no possible impact on the debate. You

NOW agree that Srila Prabhupada can deliver disciples by transferring them

back to the spiritual sky even if they ‘outlive' him.

 

Best wishes

Ys

Yadu