Guest guest Posted November 17, 2006 Report Share Posted November 17, 2006 I just want to remind that the foreward to this book mentions that it was written in Niz's younger days...oh the glory and innocence of youth :-) You can reread it in post #1, as it provides a perspective on him at that time.. May we all know and treasure the innocence of the child bhakta. ======================================================== THE MYSTIC The blissful mystic clearly sees the difference between his characteristics before and after realization. All that is transient has an origin in time and is subject to change and destruction, while he is free from change and can never perish. The unchanging one views the ever changing world as a game. All the characteristics of the Saint naturally spring from his experience. As there are no desires left in him, nothing in the world of sense can ever tempt him, he lives in the fearless majesty of Self-realization. He is moved to pity by the unsuccessful struggle of those tied down to bodily identity and their striving for the satisfaction of their petty interests. Even the great events of the world are just surface lines to him; the number of these lines that appear and disappear is infinite. Individuals are only the faint streaks of these lines, and only as such lines are they recognized. When the streaks vanish there remains nothing to recognize as individuals. The interval between the moment of emergence and the disappearance of a line is what is called life. The wiped out line can never be seen again. The Saint who has direct experience of all this is always happy and free from desire. He is convinced that the greatest of the sense experiences is only a momentary affair, impermanence is the very essence of these experiences; hence pain and sorrow, greed and temptation, fear and anxiety can never touch him. ============================================================= from Self Knowledge and Self Realization b Nisargadatta Maharaj http://itisnotreal.com/Self-Knowledge.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 18, 2006 Report Share Posted November 18, 2006 , <aumshanti wrote: > > > ---- Lady Joyce <shaantih wrote: > > I just want to remind that the foreward to this book mentions that it was written in Niz's younger days...oh the glory and innocence of youth :-) You can reread it in post #1, as it provides a perspective on him at that time. May we all know and treasure the innocence of the child bhakta. > > > > ======================================================== > > > > > > > > THE MYSTIC > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The blissful mystic clearly sees the difference between his characteristics before and after realization. All that is transient has an origin in time and is subject to change and destruction, while he is free from change and can never perish. The unchanging one views the ever changing world as a game. > > > > oh, the lila! > > > > All the characteristics of the Saint naturally spring from his experience. As there are no desires left in him, nothing in the world of sense can ever tempt him... snip > > mb: ...except for bidis (indian cigarettes). ;-) really? who says that smoking bidis is not a characteristic of a saint? true saints do not necesserily confirm to the customary, preconcived ideas of 'a saint'. > > > Peace and love, > > michael > BOOM!!! yosy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 18, 2006 Report Share Posted November 18, 2006 _____ [] On Behalf Of yosyx Friday, November 17, 2006 6:37 PM Re: Self Knowledge and Self Realization-7 @ <%40> , <aumshanti wrote: > > > ---- Lady Joyce <shaantih wrote: > > I just want to remind that the foreward to this book mentions that it was written in Niz's younger days...oh the glory and innocence of youth :-) You can reread it in post #1, as it provides a perspective on him at that time. May we all know and treasure the innocence of the child bhakta. > > > > ======================================================== > > > > > > > > THE MYSTIC > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The blissful mystic clearly sees the difference between his characteristics before and after realization. All that is transient has an origin in time and is subject to change and destruction, while he is free from change and can never perish. The unchanging one views the ever changing world as a game. > > > > oh, the lila! > > > > All the characteristics of the Saint naturally spring from his experience. As there are no desires left in him, nothing in the world of sense can ever tempt him... snip > > mb: ...except for bidis (indian cigarettes). ;-) really? who says that smoking bidis is not a characteristic of a saint? true saints do not necesserily confirm to the customary, preconcived ideas of 'a saint'. > > > Peace and love, > > michael > BOOM!!! yosy mb: What does he mean when he allegedly writes: "As there are no desires left in him, nothing in the world of sense can ever tempt him." What does it mean? Persons make certain proclamations about being beyond "sense temptation", yet they apparently indulge in what may be characterized as the enjoyment of "sense" objects. So I ask, "What does it mean when it is stated, ".as there are no desires left in him, nothing in the world of sense can ever tempt him."? ?????????????? Love and peace, michael Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 18, 2006 Report Share Posted November 18, 2006 , "Michael Bowes" <aumshanti wrote: > > _____ > > [] > On Behalf Of yosyx > Friday, November 17, 2006 6:37 PM > > Re: Self Knowledge and Self > Realization-7 > > > > @ <%40> > , <aumshanti@> wrote: > > > > > > ---- Lady Joyce <shaantih@> wrote: > > > I just want to remind that the foreward to this book mentions > that it was written in Niz's younger days...oh the glory and > innocence of youth :-) You can reread it in post #1, as it provides > a perspective on him at that time. May we all know and treasure the > innocence of the child bhakta. > > > > > > ======================================================== > > > > > > > > > > > > THE MYSTIC > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The blissful mystic clearly sees the difference between his > characteristics before and after realization. All that is transient > has an origin in time and is subject to change and destruction, while > he is free from change and can never perish. The unchanging one views > the ever changing world as a game. > > > > > > > > oh, the lila! > > > > > > > All the characteristics of the Saint naturally spring from his > experience. As there are no desires left in him, nothing in the world > of sense can ever tempt him... snip > > > > mb: ...except for bidis (indian cigarettes). ;-) > > really? who says that smoking bidis is not > a characteristic of a saint? > true saints do not necesserily confirm to the > customary, preconcived ideas of 'a saint'. > > > > > > > Peace and love, > > > > michael > > > > BOOM!!! > > yosy > > > > > > > > mb: What does he mean when he allegedly writes: > > > > "As there are no desires left in him, nothing in the world > of sense can ever tempt him." > > > > > > What does it mean? > > > that, having lost all identification, saint's apparent life is not conducted nor influenced by response to desires of any sort, which stem from identifying self with body, spirit or any other entity. > > > Persons make certain proclamations about being beyond "sense temptation", > yet they apparently indulge in what may be characterized as the enjoyment of > "sense" objects. exactly. apparently... > > > > So I ask, "What does it mean when it is stated, ".as there are no desires > left in him, nothing in the world of sense can ever tempt him."? > > > > ?????????????? > precisely what i said above; though obviously, the identifying observer attributes and interprets the saint's apparent actions according to his/her own presumptions... it is all in the eyes of the beholder. the saint has no persona to be tempted. > > > Love and peace, > > > > michael > shabat shalom to you, my friend, and all in love yosy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 18, 2006 Report Share Posted November 18, 2006 _____ [] On Behalf Of yosyx Friday, November 17, 2006 11:44 PM Re: Self Knowledge and Self Realization-7 @ <%40> , "Michael Bowes" <aumshanti wrote: > > _____ > > @ <%40> [@ <%40> ] > On Behalf Of yosyx > Friday, November 17, 2006 6:37 PM > @ <%40> > Re: Self Knowledge and Self > Realization-7 > > > > @ <%40> > , <aumshanti@> wrote: > > > > > > ---- Lady Joyce <shaantih@> wrote: > > > I just want to remind that the foreward to this book mentions > that it was written in Niz's younger days...oh the glory and > innocence of youth :-) You can reread it in post #1, as it provides > a perspective on him at that time. May we all know and treasure the > innocence of the child bhakta. > > > > > > ======================================================== > > > > > > > > > > > > THE MYSTIC > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The blissful mystic clearly sees the difference between his > characteristics before and after realization. All that is transient > has an origin in time and is subject to change and destruction, while > he is free from change and can never perish. The unchanging one views > the ever changing world as a game. > > > > > > > > oh, the lila! > > > > > > > All the characteristics of the Saint naturally spring from his > experience. As there are no desires left in him, nothing in the world > of sense can ever tempt him... snip > > > > mb: ...except for bidis (indian cigarettes). ;-) > > really? who says that smoking bidis is not > a characteristic of a saint? > true saints do not necesserily confirm to the > customary, preconcived ideas of 'a saint'. > > > > > > > Peace and love, > > > > michael > > > > BOOM!!! > > yosy > > > > > > > > mb: What does he mean when he allegedly writes: > > > > "As there are no desires left in him, nothing in the world > of sense can ever tempt him." > > > > > > What does it mean? > > > that, having lost all identification, saint's apparent life is not conducted nor influenced by response to desires of any sort, which stem from identifying self with body, spirit or any other entity. > > > Persons make certain proclamations about being beyond "sense temptation", > yet they apparently indulge in what may be characterized as the enjoyment of > "sense" objects. exactly. apparently... > > > > So I ask, "What does it mean when it is stated, ".as there are no desires > left in him, nothing in the world of sense can ever tempt him."? > > > > ?????????????? > precisely what i said above; though obviously, the identifying observer attributes and interprets the saint's apparent actions according to his/her own presumptions... it is all in the eyes of the beholder. the saint has no persona to be tempted. > > > Love and peace, > > > > michael > shabat shalom to you, my friend, and all in love yosy mb: Shalom to you as well my friend. I have read your words and I understand what you mean. I knew it and understood it before your reply was written. I understood it because it is the same worn out explanation for why an alleged sage says one thing yet does another. It's the same reasoning that I have used with mySelf. My only point is that imho the "sages" would seem "cooler" to me if they just didn't talk about how far beyond temptation of sense objects that they are. Why do I care that they are beyond the temptation of the sense objects. Why do I care that they have no desires? Do you care that they are beyond temptation? Krishna sported with the Gopis. The Pandava brothers were all married simultaneously to the same woman. Rama was going to kill his own wife because she might have been tainted by Ravana (fortunately Hanuman talked some sense into him). David and Solomon of the Bible were both master womanizers. J. Krishnamurti, Yogi Bhajan, Sri Yogiraj Swami Satchidananda, and Ramesh are/were womanizers too. St. Peter denied Jesus to save his own skin. Rajneesh was a dope head and Chogyam Trungpa was a drunk. A very high percentage of the catholic priests at my high school were definitely, liars, child molesters, drunks and psychopaths. I could go on and on. I myself am as bad as anyone else. I don't care. I don't have a persona. I'm not doing anything or doing anyone (at least not at the moment). My point and my question is: Why is it necessary for certain preachers, yogis, jnanis, swamis and various satsang teachers / givers to proclaim that they are free from desire and temptation of the sense objects? Why bring it up? Why write it down? I believe that the subject is always broached because human beings inherently know that certain activities and behaviors cause HARM and PAIN and SUFFERING. And most of us do not want to cause HARM and PAIN and SUFFERING. I believe that most of us really want peace and health and love. The teacher, the sage is actually supposed to be promoting peace and not promoting suffering, conflict and misunderstanding. People are interested in spirituality because they want a more harmonious existence. To promote harmony the teacher may preach transcendence. Can we transcend the suffering and pain? Sure we can. I do. That's my excuse for my behavior. I have transcended it. I am actually pure consciousness and all of this is just a "dream" that I'm hanging out in. I'm not doing anything. I am the eternal witness. I am unborn and undying. Nothing really matters for there is NoThing. I'm a very high guy, etc., etc., etc. Just ask my ex-wife, she'll tell ya. But why would anyone ever question my behavior? I don't question my own? After all, it's only an illusion, a dream. And finally - Yes, it is true, I too am free from desire. I'll tell you my secret. I just participate in whatever activity that I am presented with before the impulse has a chance to become desire. :-) Shalom, Salaam, Peace, Love and Warmest Regards to All, michael Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 18, 2006 Report Share Posted November 18, 2006 As I understand Nissy, action is of the body and the Jnani responds as a matter of natural action without attachment to result. Another way of saying this is that the Jnani does what he does because he does it. Layman John , "Michael Bowes" <aumshanti wrote: > mb: What does he mean when he allegedly writes: > > > > "As there are no desires left in him, nothing in the world > of sense can ever tempt him." > What does it mean? > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 19, 2006 Report Share Posted November 19, 2006 _____ [] On Behalf Of John Logan Saturday, November 18, 2006 3:35 PM Re: Self Knowledge and Self Realization-7 As I understand Nissy, action is of the body and the Jnani responds as a matter of natural action without attachment to result. Another way of saying this is that the Jnani does what he does because he does it. Layman John Hi John, ".does what he does because he does it." I guess that goes for all of us...... @ <%40> , "Michael Bowes" <aumshanti wrote: > mb: What does he mean when he allegedly writes: > > > > "As there are no desires left in him, nothing in the world > of sense can ever tempt him." > What does it mean? > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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