Pranam: A Discriminatory Greeting?

[Guest guest]

[An truly inflammatory editorial by Chandrabhan Prasad, a Dalit

(outcaste) activist who here uses the ubiquitous Hindu

greeting "Pranam" as Exhibit A in his argument that "all Indian

languages ought to be destroyed" in favor of English. I was torn

about posting it here, but finally decided that it might generate

some interesting conversation and debate -- or perhaps a much-needed

rebuttal? - DB]

 

GOODBYE, 'PRANAM'!

 

The Hindi word "pranam" is divisive, partisan, and discriminatory.

The English "good morning" is an equaliser, caste-neutral, and

emancipatory.

 

The victims of "pranam" would know the difference between pranam

and "good morning" or even "hi." While good morning or hi is all

about greeting some one, pranam is more than that. pranam is

essentially about obeisance reflecting biases of caste, age, and

gender. Dalits ought to greet non-Dalits -- in particular the

Dwijas -- with pranam. As if genetically co-related, the speech

pranam demands salutation by both the hands folded, and head a bit

down. Within Varna order, the younger ought to greet elder with

pranam, and female to male, with pranam.

 

The receiver of pranam is not expected to respond with a pranam. The

receiver of pranam is expected to bless -- "god bless you, be

happy ...." Pranam thus fixes the places of people in caste, age and

gender hierarchies. The one who offers pranam is subordinate to the

receiver of pranam.

 

The caste biases would necessarily be against thr Dalits. The gender

and age bias as inbuilt in the order of pranam too would be against

Dalits. The caste Hindus, junior in age, would not greet a Dalit

senior with pranam. Neither the male caste Hindu would greet a

female Dalit with pranam. In varna/caste value system, Dalits, the

impure, have no right to bless. The pranam therefore is not just

Hindi. The Hindi pranam is also about castes and outcastes.

 

In the world of English, good morning is reciprocated by a good

morning, hi by hi, and good bye is reciprocated by a good bye.

Caste, age and gender biases are absent.

 

The Dalit Goddess English liberates caste Hindus as well. [NOTE:

Prasad's reference to the "Goddess English" was explained in a

previous column: <http://tinyurl.com/y26b3p>] The English educated

Dalits command some element of equality from their colleagues and

friends, some salutation from their subordinates and those younger

in age.

 

With the expansion of industrialisation and urbanisation, and

affirmative actions in education and government jobs, a tiny Dalit

middle class has come into being. Howsoever small that class may be,

a new context has come into being where Dalits have earned some

space. They are no longer treated inhumanly.

 

Faced with this new social context, the non-Dalits too have to greet

the empowered Dalits. They will say "good morning" or "hi/ hello" to

their Dalit counterpart. They would prefer addressing Dalits as sir,

or friend.

 

Since English was born in a casteless society, terms such good

morning, hi/hello, sir are caste neutral. Languages remain innately

linked to the societies they are born in. Language can never be

value-free.

 

It is likely therefore that an English-speaking Indian would follow

certain English mannerisms -- dress codes, food habits, attitudes.

We can find a number of English speaking Brahmins -- the marker of

caste conservatism, eating beef and pork at ease. The Indian

language speaking Brahmin -- even a proclaimed progressive -- may

avoid eating non-vegetarian on such flimsy grounds as, "I fast this

day, you know, for health reasons."

 

No wonder any Hindi book-launch, lunch or dinner follows a food

code. The menu would invariably exclude non-vegetarian food and

drinks; P & P (potato-paneer), rosgulla and fruit juice would shame

the occasion. It is in this respect that rosgulla is casteist, and

chicken deep-fry is secular. Fruit juice is casteist, and Scotch is

secular.

 

All Indian languages are thus value-loaded. Indian languages from

Hindi to Tamil are also ambassadors of the caste order. The issue to

debate is -- should caste-order continue to predestine Indians?

Forget Dalits/Adivasis.

 

Is it in India's interest to continue with that caste order,

innately divisive, partisan, and discriminatory? And if the answer

is in the negative, should we allow Indian languages to divide

society, discriminate people, and shame this country?

 

If India has to evolve into a good society, and the nation into a

respectable entity, all Indian languages ought to be destroyed. Only

after destruction, one can think of construction. Post-destruction,

English can liberate all. All Indians must learn to speak English by

2100. Hopefully, the coming generations will say goodbye to "pranam."

 

SOURCE: The Pioneer, New Delhi (Dehradun), India

URL: http://tinyurl.com/y26b3p

[Guest guest]

One wonders how and when words like Pranam and Namaskaram got into

conversational Indian languages.These are associated with worship.The

normal Indian greeting style is Kya Haal Hai,Kshemamaa etc.We are using

Pranaam as a substitute for good morning and the usage is

synthetic.People who are addressing superiors in colloquial language

use words like sarkar,punditji,dora etc.In fact in Rajasthani dialects

and Telugu dialects they use singular form of the verbs independently

of social differences.Indian languages are fine and egalitarian.Our

literary tradition and culture is from dialects used by

Tulsidas,Meera,Tamil saints etc.The trouble is mainly with

Hindi/Hindustani which is the sycophantic language of courts and

further meddled with after independence

[Guest guest]

Well, the Dalai Lama always pranams everybody. What does that tell you?

[Guest guest]

, "llundrub" <llundrub

wrote:

>

> Well, the Dalai Lama always pranams everybody. What does that tell

you?

>

 

It is a fallacy to believe that the English language evolved in

a society that was without some form of caste system.

In fact, anyone who even takes a cursory glance at the medival

period will know it was quite sharply divided between the peasants,

ruling classes, and monks.

Educational quality back then was generally quite poor for all,

and even as English society began to lift out of the Dark Ages, it

was still almost impossible (as far as I know) for peasants to attain

any literacy whatsoever.I am even glossing over the fact that these

people could not even own the land they had worked on for generations.

Even in our more recent history, we can look to the presence of

the caste system in even countries like America, which prides itself

as being "the land of the free and the home of the brave."

Americans generally do not seem as if they like to remember that

slavery was practiced in this nation for quite a long time, and even

the notion that slavery has been abolished isn't the whole truth.

Today, one dirty and poorly hidden secret of the American economy

is that many people in the third world are basically used as slaves

to produce goods at more affordable prices for people in the so-

called first world.

I could name out countless illustrations for the principles

above,but the idea that we do not have some semblance of caste in

such places that condemn this very practice is hypocritical and

absolutely preposterous.

Also, I am not quite sure if use of the word "sir" is entirely

equitable and "caste neutral".English is a rather flexible language,

and this can have a connotation of one being of a higher status that

someone else.Even the use of the word "mr" or "mrs" can be used in

hierarchal structures such as the educational system to denote rank

and confer respect.

In the case of the Dalits, they are probably not aware of these

differences in our language. I have noticed Indian males tend to

use "sir" a bit more in a casual way - it doesnt seem quite like how

we generally use it in the United States.

I'm no expert on this topic, but hopefully I brought up a few

points which will give others some data to expound upon.

[Guest guest]

Pranam. I do not agree that pranam is biased. It just seems that people who call themselves Dalits are theose who are biased. I agree that there was discrimination and does continue to some extent today. But, pls get over it. One should change the circumstances.

At one time, women wore the Jaanvi and recited mantras but today, only men are allowed to do so. Widows used to be able to remarry. Then, came a crappy period when they were not able to do so. Then, there were child marriages. Women are beginning to break down the walls that were put up. I don't hear them whining about the big male, brahmin conspiracy. Dalits seem to want to throw the baby out with the bathwater and that just seems plain idiotic.

With Love

Shankaree

 

 

 

 

Let my every word be a prayer to Thee,

Every movement of my hands a ritual gesture to Thee,

Every step I take a circumambulation of Thy image,

Every morsel I eat a rite of sacrifice to Thee,

Every time I lay down a prostration at Thy feet;

Every act of personal pleasure and all else that I do,

Let it all be a form of worshiping Thee."

 

>From Verse 27 of Shri Aadi Shankara's Saundaryalahari

 

 

 

All new Mail "The new Interface is stunning in its simplicity and ease of use." - PC Magazine

[Guest guest]

Ire of dalits is misdirected against brahmins.They face the most severe oppression from powerful non brahmin castes and mainly by the other backward castes.It is easy to criticise the brahnin who does not have the muscle stength to hit back. But logic fails in politics.Our tradition is exaltation of woman not oppresion.I quote from Soundarya Lahiri.

sudhaa sindhourmadhye suravitapi vatee parivrute

manidweepey nipopavanavthi chintamani gruhey

shivaakarey manchey paramashiva paryankanilayam

bhajanti tvaam dhanyaam kati chana chidananda lahireem

amidst the ocean of sweetness,surronded by the gardens of heaven,in an island of precius stones and in the house studded with the rarest and wishfulling chintamani gems,you lie on on the shape of shiva and lord paramashiva as your bed.Whoever medittates on you with focus on this supreme image of you will be blessed with waves of eternal pleasure.

 

Shankaree Ramatas <shankaree > wrote:

Pranam. I do not agree that pranam is biased. It just seems that people who call themselves Dalits are theose who are biased. I agree that there was discrimination and does continue to some extent today. But, pls get over it. One should change the circumstances.

 

At one time, women wore the Jaanvi and recited mantras but today, only men are allowed to do so. Widows used to be able to remarry. Then, came a crappy period when they were not able to do so. Then, there were child marriages. Women are beginning to break down the walls that were put up. I don't hear them whining about the big male, brahmin conspiracy. Dalits seem to want to throw the baby out with the bathwater and that just seems plain idiotic.

 

With Love

 

Shankaree

 

Let my every word be a prayer to Thee,

Every movement of my hands a ritual gesture to Thee,

Every step I take a circumambulation of Thy image,

Every morsel I eat a rite of sacrifice to Thee,

Every time I lay down a prostration at Thy feet;

Every act of personal pleasure and all else that I do,

Let it all be a form of worshiping Thee."

 

>From Verse 27 of Shri Aadi Shankara's Saundaryalahari

 

 

 

All new Mail "The new Interface is stunning in its simplicity and ease of use." - PC Magazine

[Guest guest]

Many thanks to Shankaree, Ethel, Venkat Bhasksr, Llundrub and Sitam

Subba for your thoughtful and enlightening comments on this topic;

it is much appreciated.

 

There was an article in the Times of India today, further discussing

this topic -- it's written by a sociologist who actually met and

talked with Chandrabhan Prasad, the Dalit activist who started this

whole "get rid of Indian languages" idea. It's an interesting read:

 

**********

 

WHY DALITS WANT ENGLISH

 

NEW DELHI (November 10, 2006): When Dalit writer Chandrabhan Prasad

hosted a birthday celebration for Thomas Macaulay on October 25 it

seemed to many Delhiites a clever attention-getting gimmick.

 

Add to this a "Dalit Goddess of English" to underscore the turn away

from tradition and it seemed simply another act of defiance.

 

Guest Ashis Nandy, described by one journalist as "aghast," could

only urge a love for the mother tongue, source of all poetry and

remembrance; Dalits, he urged, needed to recover the memory of their

forebearers. But Prasad had his rationale.

 

Why the goddess? Because babies, he pointed out, were often shown a

picture of a goddess at birth, with mantras whispered in their ear.

 

Instead they should hear A-B-C-D and see the image of a global

English woman, looking somewhat like a Statue of Liberty with a

floppy hat, springing out of a map of India and taking her stance on

a computer.

 

And all of his Dalit guests, at least, agreed. They have found the

rather hip image, painted by Shant Swaroop Baudh, to be a compelling

symbol of their aspirations. Why English?

 

Not because it is sacred or somehow holy, but because it is a

language of access and power, a key to the world stock of knowledge

and the wealth and success that depends on this.

 

"English the Dalit goddess is a world power today", claims Prasad;

it is about emancipation; it is a mass movement against the caste

order.

 

Over a century ago, Savitribai Phule, wife of social revolutionary

Jotirao Phule, had written the same thing, saying in a

poem, "shudras and ati-shudras (Dalits) now have the right to

education, and through English casteism can be destroyed and

Brahmanical teaching can be hurled away".

 

Dalits still believe this. Dalits are, of course, not the only ones

to seek the entry to a world heritage that English knowledge

provides.

 

Street kids and intellectuals are discovering, are enthusiastic

about learning English. Maharashtra state began English from first

standard because of political pressure: Rural people want the

language for their children, and even look to English-medium schools

when they can afford them.

 

Dalit intellectuals like Prasad endorse this. "For complete

emancipation Dalit/Adivasi parents ought to give English education —

if necessary working more hours, borrowing money, selling off

jewellery, even mortgaging properties", he emphasises, and it is

becoming a widely shared sentiment. This was in fact Macaulay's

point.

 

He is remembered by the elite with some horror for saying that a

single shelf of Shakespeare was worth more than all the Sanskrit and

Arabic literature of the east.

 

But the most telling argument in his well-argued "Minute on

Education" was that whereas the British had to give scholarships to

children to study in Sanskrit and Arabic, people even then were

ready to pay for English education.

 

Intellectuals like Nandy have expressed concern about the mother

tongue. In fact, most Dalits might like the mother tongue to become

English, as it has become the mother tongue of African Americans,

who have mastered it so well that the creation of spontaneous poetry

(rap) is their art form, and who give birth to most of the new words

(slang) coming into the language.

 

Resentment against the vernaculars, which Prasad called "linguistic

evils", is also widely expressed — "No one knows how to curse me as

well as in Tamil", as one Dalit militant claimed. English cannot

become the mother tongue of the masses.

 

But Macaulay's argument was not directed against the vernaculars;

the outmoded literature he referred to was that of the Vedas and

Upanishads, not the bhakti poetry and oral traditions which are the

living heritage of the people.

 

On the contrary, he emphasised that the vernaculars would also need

to be enriched by English — not filled with Sanskritised forms, as

they continue to be.

 

Another reason for Dalits to prefer English is that the vernaculars

have been colonised by Sanskrit for thousands of years.

 

In Marathi, for instance, the first major Marathi-English

dictionary, that was done by a young British missionary named

Molesworth working with pandits, involved a battle over inserting

Sanskritised words versus Persian-derived and desi words.

 

Tukaram, the 17th century Kunbi poet, still considered the greatest

living Marathi writer, used numerous "prakrit" and local forms

which, under pandit pressure, were noted in the dictionary

as "poetic, vulgar".

 

Poetic and vulgar could very well define the essence of Dalit

culture. In fact, there is a need for a major effort still to de-

Sanskritise the vernaculars, to remove the Brahmanic nasals still

inserted, and take out some of the joint consonants.

 

For example, mass pronunciation in most Indian languages for

thousands of years has been "Baman" and not "Brahman."

 

Dalits though might do well to remember that there can in fact be

more than one mother tongue, that English need not be a Brahmanic

expression or the "King's English" but their language, incorporating

their words, their expressions, their concerns. English and the

Indian vernaculars can be enriched by each other.

 

Jotirao Phule himself argued for learning to read and write in the

mother tongue, in English and in Persian, then the elite language of

India, the literary language.

 

In his Memorial to the Education Commission in 1882, he argued for

both mass education and higher education, criticising the so-called

Brahman-run "indi-genous schools", bemoaning the predominance of

Brahmans in education and employment, and stressing that teachers

themselves should come from the masses of "shudras and ati-shudras".

All of these problems remain, but so do the aspirations to overcome

them.

 

[The writer, Gail Omvedt, is a sociologist. ]

 

SOURCE: The Times of India

URL: http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/articleshow/372570.cms

 

**********

 

, venkat bhasksr

<sitam_subba wrote:

>

> Ire of dalits is misdirected against brahmins.They face the most

severe oppression from powerful non brahmin castes and mainly by the

other backward castes.It is easy to criticise the brahnin who does

not have the muscle stength to hit back. But logic fails in

politics.Our tradition is exaltation of woman not oppresion.I quote

from Soundarya Lahiri.

>

> sudhaa sindhourmadhye suravitapi vatee parivrute

> manidweepey nipopavanavthi chintamani gruhey

> shivaakarey manchey paramashiva paryankanilayam

> bhajanti tvaam dhanyaam kati chana chidananda lahireem

>

> amidst the ocean of sweetness,surronded by the gardens of

heaven,in an island of precius stones and in the house studded with

the rarest and wishfulling chintamani gems,you lie on on the shape

of shiva and lord paramashiva as your bed.Whoever medittates on you

with focus on this supreme image of you will be blessed with waves

of eternal pleasure.

>

>

>

>

>

>

> Shankaree Ramatas <shankaree wrote:

> Pranam. I do not agree that pranam is biased. It just

seems that people who call themselves Dalits are theose who are

biased. I agree that there was discrimination and does continue to

some extent today. But, pls get over it. One should change the

circumstances.

>

> At one time, women wore the Jaanvi and recited mantras but today,

only men are allowed to do so. Widows used to be able to remarry.

Then, came a crappy period when they were not able to do so. Then,

there were child marriages. Women are beginning to break down the

walls that were put up. I don't hear them whining about the big

male, brahmin conspiracy. Dalits seem to want to throw the baby out

with the bathwater and that just seems plain idiotic.

>

> With Love

>

> Shankaree

>

> Let my every word be a prayer to Thee,

> Every movement of my hands a ritual gesture to Thee,

> Every step I take a circumambulation of Thy image,

> Every morsel I eat a rite of sacrifice to Thee,

> Every time I lay down a prostration at Thy feet;

> Every act of personal pleasure and all else that I do,

> Let it all be a form of worshiping Thee."

>

> From Verse 27 of Shri Aadi Shankara's Saundaryalahari

>

>

>

> All new Mail "The new Interface is stunning in its

simplicity and ease of use." - PC Magazine

>

>