Telepathic networking

[Sridas]

There are zillions of impressions frozen in hard copy just on the WWW alone which just represents one small flickering moment in eternal time. A point on a line. The wise will decipher useful impressions that assist in sravanam kirtanam Krsna smaranam.

The transcendental vibrations of Sri Chaitanya's Sankirtan search party probing deep into the layers of the mental atmosphere to retrieve and rescue us from intruding influences. Real favourable psychic radar will detect that original form in the jungle of impressions. That form that all other vibrations come from and try to serve a wave in that movement.

[bija]

Simon Peter, if you have some developed psychic awareness, it is important to take balance with it. For maintenance of good health and spiritual growth.

 

Considering that many people are unaware of developed psychic abilities, it can be quite a shock when one's consciousness moves beyond the norm. Unfortunately there may be no support network. Very few may understand, and doctors can easily make wrong diagnosis. Possibly it can be quite overwhelming, or even frightening in some cases, hence psychotic break and loss of control. Then the need for medical intervention.

 

One day maybe the pychiatric field will be able to discern spiritual emergence crisis (term coined by psychiatrists Grof&Grof) more easily. Maybe there is need for more research into the para-psychology field. In my opinion more openess needs to be developed into the field of spiritual emergence in relation to psychiatry. Psychiatry seems to be lacking in this area very much. More insight into spiritual emergence and crisis, will make for transition into more developed awareness smoother and easier, rather than the conventional treatment available at a psyche hospital.

 

So I feel it is important to develop great discernment of what is actual developed psychic awareness, or just imagination. This is important, so that we are not led into delusions or over imagination, but that the gift of heightened sensitivities can be a positive blessing for spiritual development.

 

I have a moderate interest in the field of spiritual emergence, healing and mental health. The opening of spiritual life and the journey to fullness and wholeness, seems to be an ongoing process, a very wonderful experience.

 

All the best Simon Peter....here is some reading I enjoyed today...www.easternhealingarts.com/Articles/SpiritEmerge.html

[Guest guest]

Psychosis, yes I have been psychotic, wow what a chaotic place that is, like being in a parallel universe, every spiritual experience is stronger, and I could do things then that I can't do now, and of course I have had some delusions too, like thinking I was opening the age of Aquarius, and thinking I was in Valhalla, thinking that someone would poison my medicines because I knew too much, and even thinking I was dead. When the psychosis is over the false experiences goes away, just like awakening from a dream, a long dream.

 

But there are experiences that are real too, like knowing who I have been in former lives, when this happens, I just know it is true, and these things stay, they will never go away, no matter what any psychiatrist tell me. Why shouldn't I been able to recognize myself, I know who I am and where I have been.

 

If I should listen to what the psychiatrist says, the I would have to stop meditating, forget about spirit, god, and just embrace the physical reality.

[krishnadasa]

 

---

from crystalinks.com

The pineal gland is occasionally associated with the sixth chakra (also called Ajna or the third eye chakra in yoga). It is believed by some to be a dormant organ that can be awakened to enable "telepathic" communication.

---

do you mean that my telepathic ability is imaginary, or do you mean that all who claim to have telepathic abilities are wrong?

 

I am not sure about this, but onething i can advice without proper certified direct Guru guidance(not any internet guru), there is a danger of falling into mental sickness....

 

Hari hari bol

[Guest guest]

 

No one has been able to prove telepathic abilities, and no one has been able to prove god. But if you look inside, there is where the proof is. And most people try to talk to god, and they do so with inner communication.

 

Actually, and unfortunately, neuroscientists have delved into this "inner communication" and sense of "inner bliss", and it seems it really is empty of substance as they've traced it to particular regions of the brain which are responsible for that feeling. There are neuroscientists out there who are even trying to INDUCE mystical states through electromagnetic manipulation of the brain. So how can you trust these "feelings" of inner bliss or communication with "God" when it turns out that this is probably nothing more than some change in brain chemistry?

 

I just don't see where there is room for God when there is absolutely no hard proof for the soul, and the basis of the belief in mystical states of God communion is also pretty much undermined.

[Guest guest]

 

I believe there are cases of legitimate telepathy - some can actually "hear" the vibrations in the ether (akhasa) left by our thoughts because their consciousness is so advanced it can focus on these subtle vibrations. there are cases of at least occasional telepathy between twins or other family members in times of great stress. but these are rare.

 

in your case I simply have zero indication that what you are saying is anything more than fiction or your imagination.

 

Do you have any links? I'm curious as to these instances as well.

 

The problem however, with telepathy and various other supernatural phenomena is that most of them can be explained away under most circumstances. For instance, it's not necessary for a person to be telepathic in seeing that a person that they're talking to is unhappy, or undergoing abuse or whatever even though the person they're talking to has never mentioned or never consciously indicated anything was wrong in their lives. People give way more information than they consciously know. Only some of that information is verbal, the rest is through their body language, facial expressions, what they're wearing, what they're doing, etc. And there are a few people who pick up on all these various signals (still an impressive, but unfortunately materialistic and therefore mundane ability), and appear psychic. They may not even consciously know this is what they're doing, because their subconscious processes all of this information and provides it to the conscious part of the mind in a way that may seem supernatural.

 

For instance, Srinivasa Ramanujan Iyengar was a genius mathematician who claimed that a goddess visited him in his dreams and wrote down all the numbers and proofs he was able to write, on his tongue. The man was obsessed with math, so it's possible he figured out all this information subconsciously and provided it to his conscious intellect in a way that is familiar to him.

 

There was an Indian movie recently named Lage Raho Munnabhai that had the same scenario (I got really depressed after watching the movie because of this as it pretty much really brought home the question of how authentic these supernatural perceptions really are, and as I write this I'm still in a major depression as I've come increasingly to believe they're of no worth at all because they just seem to be products of brain chemistry and nothing more), where Munnabhai sees Mahatma Gandhi and Gandhi advises him on what to do. While Munnabhai goes around claiming he can see Gandhi and Gandhi talks to him, that his atma is with Munnabhai, a psychiatrist disproves this by showing that this atma is nothing more than the result of a chemical imbalance in Munnabhai's brain by asking Munnabhai questions about Gandhi's life that the "atma" couldn't answer until Munnabhai read the answers himself.

 

Neuroscientists have shown that the "feeling" of something being true is really worthless, and shouldn't be considered proof of anything. Even if you have the most lucid experience of another world, one that seems more real than this world, it is probably nothing more than the product of some brain chemistry and not some astral travel.

 

Believe me, I really want to have faith in God, and I want to believe that mediation will bring one closer to God and give you proof of the soul, but from what I've read and observed, it's not true .

[Shakti-Fan]

 

Actually, and unfortunately, neuroscientists have delved into this "inner communication" and sense of "inner bliss", and it seems it really is empty of substance as they've traced it to particular regions of the brain which are responsible for that feeling. There are neuroscientists out there who are even trying to INDUCE mystical states through electromagnetic manipulation of the brain. So how can you trust these "feelings" of inner bliss or communication with "God" when it turns out that this is probably nothing more than some change in brain chemistry?

 

I just don't see where there is room for God when there is absolutely no hard proof for the soul, and the basis of the belief in mystical states of God communion is also pretty much undermined.

Then the only thing that you believe is that you are an electro-chemical brain. That's your choice. Sridhar Maharaja was always fond of the western philosopher Berkeley's concept that the world is in the mind rather than the idea that we are a mind floating in the world. Is it possible that the electro-chemical brain is the gross representation of our subtle experience. In other words one person thinks that the firing of the neurons in the thinking part of the brain is the reality and our subjective experience is illusion. Berkeley would say that the subjective experience is the reality and the firing of neurons is the background. Could the subjective reality become free from its representation in the cold hard physical reality? Berkeley and the Vedantists would say yes. This is really faith or sraddha, a belief that there is something inherently amazing and sublime in the very nature of our consciousness. Actually everyone has it to some degree or another otherwise they would never get out of bed in the morning. The alternative is to drive your car into a wall like Jean Paul Sarte to express the absurdity of existence. The other choice is to become a theistic existentialist. At that point it is possible to make some sense of Krsna Consciouness, otherwise not. Its your choice.

[Sridas]

 

Actually, and unfortunately, neuroscientists have delved into this "inner communication" and sense of "inner bliss", and it seems it really is empty of substance as they've traced it to particular regions of the brain which are responsible for that feeling. There are neuroscientists out there who are even trying to INDUCE mystical states through electromagnetic manipulation of the brain. So how can you trust these "feelings" of inner bliss or communication with "God" when it turns out that this is probably nothing more than some change in brain chemistry?

 

I just don't see where there is room for God when there is absolutely no hard proof for the soul, and the basis of the belief in mystical states of God communion is also pretty much undermined.

 

 

What is being missed here is that the Supreme Lord who can give the ultimate mystic telepathic exchange, does so at his own sweet will. If he chooses he will give according to your faith it is all in His control, the scientists trying to artificially induce some mystical revelation is like trying to milk a bull to get milk, it's not going to happen because there is a person at the centre of the adhoksaja plane who only responds to honest devotion not those that are trying to be Him or prove He doesn't exist, so they can pretend they are in control. What make them think he will reveal Himself to them or His treasure house of mystical ways that He awards to those who have faith in Him.

A real bhakta yogi lives in a wondrous world of reality far beyond the reaches of atheists, and the only entrance to that Kingdom is thru surrender and dedication to the King in that centre.

He gives the so called scientists a big brain to spend their whole life mentally speculating and chewing the chewed, untill one of them comes up with another theory they can all delude the blind laymen with for another 30 years. By the time it gets debunked they're usually senile from brain burnout, and everyone has forgotten them and moved on, just as they have forgetten everything, thru old age wearing down their false egos..

Not untill they research the real science of the Absolute Truth will they understand some of the deeper mysteries of this thing we call life and those telepathic chanells that connect individuals in this world.

Some mystic powers you may find connected to the brain but real revelation will be found in the sweet heart of His devotee.

[Sridas]

Wonder of Wonders

Srila BR Sridhara Maharaj

Just the realization of your own soul, can suffice to create a sensation of wonder in your mental plane for real spiritual life, enough to outweigh all the immeasurable so called wonders of this material world, like going to the moon, or any such aspiration within this material sphere. By the help of your pure intelligence you can rise up to the level where your very soul exists, and it alone will sufficiently purify. That can give a glimpse of a new world, whose comparison can never be compared within this scientific world of trash, however astonishing it may be.

Without proper attention to learning the alphabet from abcd, we cannot hope to have the pleasure of reading a full novel and entering the story.

atmaramas ca munayo

nirgrantha apy urukrame

kuruanty-ahaitukam bhaktim

itham-bhua-guno harih

So many experts have labored hard to understand their soul. Even with self realization it is still difficult to go up. Even they are captured by the charm of their own existence, as we are charmed by this body and its food, the liberated souls are also charmed by their own souls’ position and do not want anything else, atmaram. But there is a superior world made of stuff far finer than that which we are composed. Generally that so-called spiritualist is thinking there can’t be anything higher than this position we’re in, it is all imaginary and speculation. But those who are really from that land, when they come here as agents, with their help we can pass to that other world. We should always try to keep in front of us the model of our great master and Lord Mahaprabhu and those others who are showing us the way. How all those highly qualified stalwarts are approaching towards Vrndavan with such heartfelt reverence and respect. We can’t touch how wonderful it is.

 

 

 

ascaryavat pasyati kascid enam

ascaryavad vadati tathaiva canyah

ascaryavac cainam anyah srinoti

srutvapy enam veda na caiva kascit

(Bg. 2.29)

 

The unintelligible, charming conception of that high plane will give some particular divine type of prospect that will at once turn all your material prospects into trash. Even if you come back, it still won't have any real influence upon you. Such is the realization of the atma; what to speak of Paramatma: that is more and more laudable and desirable.

Evam buddheh param . is the atma. In the beginning, with the help of your reason concentrate even for a second there. Your inquisitive ego may even for a second meet with your real self- jahi satrum. maha-baho, kama-rupam durasadam - then all the charm for material pleasure, both gross and subtle, will bid you adieu for ever.

[Guest guest]

 

Then the only thing that you believe is that you are an electro-chemical brain. That's your choice. Sridhar Maharaja was always fond of the western philosopher Berkeley's concept that the world is in the mind rather than the idea that we are a mind floating in the world. Is it possible that the electro-chemical brain is the gross representation of our subtle experience. In other words one person thinks that the firing of the neurons in the thinking part of the brain is the reality and our subjective experience is illusion. Berkeley would say that the subjective experience is the reality and the firing of neurons is the background. Could the subjective reality become free from its representation in the cold hard physical reality? Berkeley and the Vedantists would say yes. This is really faith or sraddha, a belief that there is something inherently amazing and sublime in the very nature of our consciousness. Actually everyone has it to some degree or another otherwise they would never get out of bed in the morning. The alternative is to drive your car into a wall like Jean Paul Sarte to express the absurdity of existence. The other choice is to become a theistic existentialist. At that point it is possible to make some sense of Krsna Consciouness, otherwise not. Its your choice.

 

 

You seem to be confused. I'm not making a CHOICE to believe that there is no God. Why do you think I'm in such a depression or that I keep saying I want to believe in God? I still try to meditate, though I've lost faith in the process as it is easy to become deluded into believing there is something there when it's not. Every time I even get close to stilling the mind, any time I even come close to feeling that there is a God, my mind jars me out of that state because I don't want to be deluded into thinking something's there when it isn't. I've written about my state of mind many times on this forum and my attempts to find peace and a sense of spiritual well-being.

 

Can you tell me there is a reason supported by some kind of evidence for NOT thinking I'm merely made of matter, and that my consciousness is not merely the product of electrochemical reactions of the brain? If so, I'm all ears. I believed in God not too long ago, that mystical states of awareness were authentic and science as of yet had no way to account for them. But then I became aware of the research dealing with God and the brain, and that pretty much dispelled my reasoning for belief in God. Science has accounted for why we believe in God (as you stated above, it's so we can survive, it's an evolutionary trait); science has also accounted for mystical states of awareness, they've found the part of the brain responsible for this, and it turns out the mind isn't still after all, it still functions during this period (certain regions of it anyway), and it can be stimulated to induce mystical states of awareness; science has furthermore disproved these mystical states of awareness as anything more than flights of fancy (as far as I know there has been no evidence to SUPPORT the possibility of astral projection or any other such notions which would make someone believe in the soul, however if you have heard of such cases again, I'm all ears). In the end what's left? What reason can I hold on to for believing in the soul? Even if God came down and blessed me, I'd have to doubt the validity of that experience simply from what I know. I can't just blindly accept something, no matter how much I want it to be, if I have knowledge of reasons why it probably really isn't.

[Guest guest]

 

What is being missed here is that the Supreme Lord who can give the ultimate mystic telepathic exchange, does so at his own sweet will. If he chooses he will give according to your faith it is all in His control, the scientists trying to artificially induce some mystical revelation is like trying to milk a bull to get milk, it's not going to happen because there is a person at the centre of the adhoksaja plane who only responds to honest devotion not those that are trying to be Him or prove He doesn't exist, so they can pretend they are in control. What make them think he will reveal Himself to them or His treasure house of mystical ways that He awards to those who have faith in Him.

A real bhakta yogi lives in a wondrous world of reality far beyond the reaches of atheists, and the only entrance to that Kingdom is thru surrender and dedication to the King in that centre.

He gives the so called scientists a big brain to spend their whole life mentally speculating and chewing the chewed, untill one of them comes up with another theory they can all delude the blind laymen with for another 30 years. By the time it gets debunked they're usually senile from brain burnout, and everyone has forgotten them and moved on, just as they have forgetten everything, thru old age wearing down their false egos..

Not untill they research the real science of the Absolute Truth will they understand some of the deeper mysteries of this thing we call life and those telepathic chanells that connect individuals in this world.

Some mystic powers you may find connected to the brain but real revelation will be found in the sweet heart of His devotee.

 

How can you be so sure the scientists are wrong? What's your reasoning for this? Is it simply wishful thinking? Or do you have real reasons for believing the way you do? I sincerely wish I had a reason for believing in God, but I don't have any reasons left.

 

As for your statement that scientists cannot induce mystical experiences, that is what they're doing already. Some test subjects have had mystical experiences, while others haven't, but the problem is that some had those experiences, and they were INDUCED. And how do you explain people who aren't honest spiritual seekers who indulge in drugs and have mystical experiences as well? Where does God come into all of this?

[Guest guest]

 

How can you be so sure the scientists are wrong? What's your reasoning for this? Is it simply wishful thinking? Or do you have real reasons for believing the way you do? I sincerely wish I had a reason for believing in God, but I don't have any reasons left.

 

As for your statement that scientists cannot induce mystical experiences, that is what they're doing already. Some test subjects have had mystical experiences, while others haven't, but the problem is that some had those experiences, and they were INDUCED. And how do you explain people who aren't honest spiritual seekers who indulge in drugs and have mystical experiences as well? Where does God come into all of this?

[gramo]

Miracles are based on the principle of the concentration of the mind. The mind has immense powers. It derives its power from the Atman or the Supreme Soul. The mind is a collection of thoughts. The mind’s energy is dissipated by worry, evil thoughts, cares, anxieties and lack of Brahmacharya. If you can control the immense amount of power which the mind possesses, through concentration and sublime thoughts, you will acquire Siddhis or the power to do supernatural actions. The eight major Siddhis are greatest miracles performed by the Raja Yogins. There are various minor Siddhis also. Siddhis come during the practice of concentration. They are by-products of concentration. You will have to shun them ruthlessly. If you fall a victim to these Siddhis, you cannot reach the goal. The Siddhis performed by Raja Yogins are true. They cannot change the molecules of an object. They can draw their supply from the cosmic source, ether and create any kind of object through their Yogic power. A Jnani performs miracles through the power of Satsankalpa (pure willing). A Raja Yogi does miracles through Samyama (Dharana, Dhyana and Samadhi combined).

 

By doing Samyama on the sun, the Yogi gets the knowledge of the fourteen worlds.

By doing Samyama on the moon, he gets the knowledge of the regions of stars.

By doing Samyama on the Pole Star, comes the knowledge of the movements of the stars.

By doing Samyama on the strength of elephants and others, he gets strength equal to those beings.

By doing Samyama on the form of the body and checking the power of comprehension, he is able to make the body disappear or dematerialise.

By doing Samyama on the appearance, etc., of others, the Yogi gets a knowledge of their mind.

By doing Samyama on the Moment, he gets discrimination.

By doing Samyama on the relation of the ear and ether, the Yogi gets the powers of clairaudience.

By practising Samyama on the relation between ether and the body, the Yogi attains extreme lightness of the body and the ability to travel through space.

By Samyama on the three modifications of the mind, comes the knowledge of the past and future.

Samyama on Samskaras gives him knowledge of births.

Samyama on the senses gives mastery over them.

By practising Samyama on the distinctive relation between Sattva and Purusha, he gets the powers of omnipotence and omniscience.

 

Samyama on the inner light gives him the knowledge of the subtle, the obscured and the remote. Samyama on one’s own Self gives the Yogi clairaudience, higher touch, clairvoyance, higher taste and higher smell through intuition. By intuition he gets all knowledge. Real Yogins perform miracles to convince their disciples of the existence of transcendental things and God. They will not perform miracles on the platform.

 

All miracles are performed through the power of the Yogi’s Satsankalpa. He is one with the Cosmic Will which creates, sustains and dissolves this universe, just as the single Sankalpa of the Supreme Being...“I am One, may I become many”...at once materialised into this vast universe.

Some are born Siddhas. Sri Dattatreya was a born Siddha. He created a woman and a bottle of wine by his Yogic power to get away from the disturbing crowd. Some exhibit small miracles with the help of some disembodied spirit. These are nothing. These have nothing to do with spirituality. Drinking nitric acid, swallowing nails, chewing snakes and glass pieces, walking over fire are not the real Siddhis of spiritual Yogins. They have nothing to do with Yoga. They are performed by charlatans to collect money. Even educated people are deceived by looking at these performances. Beware of cheap miracle-mongers. Do not be duped.

Miracles have been caused by prayer. God has always granted the fervent prayers of faithful devotees. The greatest miracle is faith.

 

Mantras have great power. Sound can be converted into light and form. Certain mystic formulae have tremendous power. When a man has been stung by a scorpion, the Mantravadi recites a Mantra, and the man is relieved of the pain! Is this not a miracle? This is the power of the Mantra. That power has been further augmented by the spiritual power of the great Yogis who have chanted the Mantra and attained Siddhi in it. The faith of the Sadhaka who takes to that Mantra now acts as a key to release its divine force. To convert water into wine is not difficult. But it is difficult to transform worldly-minded people into divine beings and put them in the path of Yoga. This is the greatest miracle.

 

Miracles there have been for ages and will continue to be till the end of the world. Miracles are astounding only for the layman. For Yogins, these are simple things. They are not extraordinary. For those who know the principles and the laws of Yoga, who have controlled nature, they are common occurrences.

[Guest guest]

Jaya gramo! thanks so much for your post on the siddhis, I realised a lot from reading it.

 

-Savitri.

[Shakti-Fan]

 

Can you tell me there is a reason supported by some kind of evidence for NOT thinking I'm merely made of matter, and that my consciousness is not merely the product of electrochemical reactions of the brain? If so, I'm all ears. I believed in God not too long ago, that mystical states of awareness were authentic and science as of yet had no way to account for them. But then I became aware of the research dealing with God and the brain, and that pretty much dispelled my reasoning for belief in God. Science has accounted for why we believe in God (as you stated above, it's so we can survive, it's an evolutionary trait); science has also accounted for mystical states of awareness, they've found the part of the brain responsible for this, and it turns out the mind isn't still after all, it still functions during this period (certain regions of it anyway), and it can be stimulated to induce mystical states of awareness; science has furthermore disproved these mystical states of awareness as anything more than flights of fancy (as far as I know there has been no evidence to SUPPORT the possibility of astral projection or any other such notions which would make someone believe in the soul, however if you have heard of such cases again, I'm all ears). In the end what's left? What reason can I hold on to for believing in the soul? Even if God came down and blessed me, I'd have to doubt the validity of that experience simply from what I know. I can't just blindly accept something, no matter how much I want it to be, if I have knowledge of reasons why it probably really isn't.

You say, "science has furthermore disproved these mystical states of awareness as anything more than flights of fancy". If your whole supposition is true then wouldn't any state of consciouness be a "flight of fancy"? Let's borrow from science fiction; suppose you are already disembodied. You brain is floating in a saline solution in some scientist's laboratory and he/she is creating experiences for you, Mr. Brain by using probes and chemicals in an expert way. In this case the experience of Mr. Brain is Experience A. But what about Mr. Scientist, by definition he is merely an electro-chemical brain also, so he is Experience B. Although Experience B is manipulating and creating Experience A perhaps he is just dreaming that he is doing this and that Experience B is being controlled by another mad scientist, who's electro-chemical brain impulses is known as Experience C. This could go on ad-finitum, why not? But is it possible that there is a Super-Brain existing somewhere, controlling the entire scene? Sounds absurd in a way, but I am showing you in a sense the theistic line of thought. Ultimately the soul or Super Soul cannot be revealed by logical argument to anyone. He is for Himself and by Himself (the Super Soul). If he choses to reveal Himself and the nature of our exitense to anyone, it is ultimately up to His/Her sweet will. But if we have no faith in our own experience then why bother? In your case and the case of all who are struggling with atheistic thought, including myself, we have to understand that its all thoughts. Yes, we have to believe that consciousness is the background and basis of thoughts, not electro-chemical impulses. At least we can suspend the atheistic thoughts temporarily and at least believe theorectically in consciouness and have a primitive faith in our own experience. Then at least our minds will be somewhat open and receptive to the possiblity of spiritual realization. So actually the bottom line is that there is no objective proof of this is really possible. The argument can and will go on for eternity. When we hear Guru Maharaja say, "It is possible!", then that vibration resonates within us and creates a kind of joy in our existence. But ultimately is really comes down to a choice. A minute use of free will. The Theistic Vedantists believe that it is do to something called sukriti. Some merit coming from the past, that enables us to percieve this choice either consciously or unconciously. But tarko pratistha srutayo na bhinnam, no real logical argument will suffice. All you can do is try to temporarily suspend your judgements based on experience and submissvely hear about Krsna from a self realized soul. I don't believe that anything more can be said.

[bija]

 

Although Experience B is manipulating and creating Experience A perhaps he is just dreaming that he is doing this and that Experience B is being controlled by another mad scientist, who's electro-chemical brain impulses is known as Experience C. This could go on ad-finitum, why not? But is it possible that there is a Super-Brain existing somewhere, controlling the entire scene? quote by Shakti-fan

 

This anaology of a super-brain is a good one and deserves some contemplation. Just because mystical phenomena appears on certain parts of the brain in scans, does not fully disripute the inter-connectedness of things on a grander scale.

 

I think the doubts expressed by harerama-guest could possibly be reduced somewhat by: a full re-imagining of what God is. By going beyond the bounds of what we have previously conceived of what God is. By opening up our heart afresh to new possibilty, to new thought.

 

 

 

Anyway, getting back to this analogy of a super-brain. I think many of us have encountered phenomena which cannot be readily explained, or maybe just explained away as co-incidence. But when co-incidences happen a lot, one starts to wonder! Here is an example:

 

Some years ago I was a backpacker. I had been on the road a couple of years. Early in my travels I had the good fortune of staying with some very open, spiritual people in Missouri, USA, for about a week. These people were very intuitive and progressive in their thinking. About a year and a half later I ended up travelling back to the USA, so oneday I decided to give them a telephone call. I had not conversed with them since my initial stay with them. When they answered the phone they were amazed, as just a minute before, memories of me had entered their consciousness and they were at that moment having conversation about me.

 

I know this does not prove any thing of the big picture in itself, but when such occurences similar to this happen time and time again, you just have to question...is there an over-soul, inter-connecting all things.

 

It would be great to hear others stories and co-incidences. I know in my life there have been many.

 

Sometimes with loss of faith and extreme doubts we need to open up ourself to new possibility. Maybe that God is something totally different than the box I tried to put (Him) in. Maybe we cannot get a glimpse of such newness and freshness except by grace, but at least if we look in the new direction, our consciousness can begin to move in that area.

[Shakti-Fan]

Suppose consciousness itself is an entity with an existence that is only reflected in brain activity. Wouldn't it be possible that every thought, every perception of every being still exists beyond the shackles of relative time? Some call this the Akashic records. According to Wikipedia, "Akashic records (Akash is a Sanskrit word meaning "sky", "space" or "aether") are said to be a collection of mystical knowledge that is stored in the aether; i.e. on a non-physical plane of existence." Different mystics like Edger Cayce have been allegedly been able to tap into the Akashic record(s). But could the Record(s) know Itself, like some kind of universal super computer? The Vedantists already have a concept in place which would explain this phenomena called brahman. The Theistic Vedantist refer to it as para brahman or param brahman, Supreme Brahman. Could the Supreme Brahman have personal qualities?, but that is whole new issue. One man posed to Srila Sridhar Maharaja: "If the infinite can be known by the finite, he is not infinite." To which Srila Sridhar Maharaj replied,

"If the infinite cannot reveal himself to finite, he is not infinite!"

 

 

[Guruvani]

 

The Vedantists already have a concept in place which would explain this phenomena called brahman.

 

 

 

 

Brahman is not a "phenomena".

Phenomena is something that can be known through sense perception.

Brahman cannot be known by sense perception.

 

<cite>American Heritage Dictionary</cite> - Cite This Source <!-- google_ad_region_start=def --> phe·nom·e·non (f-nm-nn, -nn) Pronunciation Key

n. pl. phe·nom·e·na (-n)

1. An occurrence, circumstance, or fact that is perceptible by the senses.

[Shakti-Fan]

 

Brahman is not a "phenomena".

Your right its a noumenon.

[bija]

webster dictionary: phenomenon: a remarkable or unusual person, thing, or appearance.

 

webster thesarus: phenomenon: appearance, circumstance, curiosity, episode, event, fact, happening, incident, marvel, miracle, occurence, prodigy, rarity, sensation, sight, spectacle, wonder.

[Sridas]

 

How can you be so sure the scientists are wrong? What's your reasoning for this? Is it simply wishful thinking? Or do you have real reasons for believing the way you do? I sincerely wish I had a reason for believing in God, but I don't have any reasons left.

 

As for your statement that scientists cannot induce mystical experiences, that is what they're doing already. Some test subjects have had mystical experiences, while others haven't, but the problem is that some had those experiences, and they were INDUCED. And how do you explain people who aren't honest spiritual seekers who indulge in drugs and have mystical experiences as well? Where does God come into all of this?

 

 

I can taste the eternal reality I'm experiencing, it may not nessacarily be transferrable to you if you can't accept it as real, as Shakti is pointing out, but my experience is confirmed by previous saints, sastra and my own heart and they offer a far better, sweeter prospect, solution and conclusions than the dry logic of the so called scientists. Now if you even like to call that auto-suggestion or that I've been re-programmed, I don't mind, I'm free to choose who's account of reality I embrace, in my case the higher taste of Anandam is coming from my Master, and the more I surrender to that account which is considered transcendental, the deeper and clearer that reality crystalizes in my consciousness, the further east we go the more west is left behind. In this case the tasteless relative truths of most scientists.

 

Our beliefs can change just as one changes clothes. Whereas knowledge descending thru the agents of divinity remains consistent and has done for thousands of years, and it is not just theoretical it is practical, tangible and offers the taste of anandam that can't be denied. This is ultimately the measuring stick! How free from suffering will these discoveries make us? What degree of blissfullness and inner fullfillment will we taste from our objective and your trust in them. Certain scientists may be able to eventually manipulate the brain or central nervous system to feel relatively good, but what about when the person goes back out and performs sinful activity or commits crimes, using human embryos for stem cell research or killing animals for their experiments and the populous followers their example, condoning their ignorance because they can't see or realize what life is, will the scientists then also manipulate their conscience to not feel remorse, beyond the reactionary world of Karma.

The scientists can't control all the other aspects of what rests in our consciouness, nor can they conquer death, only the transcendentalist can help us in these areas. All the scientist can do at best is imitate that which already exists but they can't create existence. It will remain a mystery to them untill grace allows them to recognize their own existance and where it springs from, then they'll become a spiritualist, some are actually making this true quantum leap, others are wavering and yet others may be stuck in the mud with the amoebas for thousands of years, or swinging from one misconceived tree of knowledge to another.

By manipulating the material elements many scientists appear to be performing some miraculous wonders to the uninitiated, but it is very much down in the pits lower end of mystic perfection.

Doubts can be healthy in spiritual life just as they can in material life up to a certain point where Faith, Knowledge then revelation or realization take their place. To start with Faith can extend along way in the infinite, not that mature faith ever withdraws from us just that it becomes more tangible, more real, not just blind or a show to convince others. At that stage we need the help of the sadhus who stand as lighthouses on our treachurous journey thru dark and uncertain waters.

Thru vapu or vani or both if possible meaning their affectionate presence or their instruction and guidance. It's a methodical process we follow. By being in their company.... sadhu sanga and serving the sadhu according to ones capacity or by merely following the instructions that are given as guideposts on the path our heart slowly becomes cleansed, and when that stage is reached then the Lord within plus his wondrous ways start to become more visible in various forms according to the individual.

By getting the Creator you also get the creation.

Everything doesn't usually jump out at you instantly, it's gradual but progressive, like mountain climbing one step at a time you just have to be patient. I don't know how old you are but if you want it enough you'll find the strength to perservere and He will respond to your call, in His time.

By calling for the help and strength of Nityananda Prabhu in kirtan and prayer, appealing with sincere humility the Truth won't be denied. Mind you there are a lot of jivas these days knocking on heavens door so you still may have to stand in line. But if you want in to the party enough you may have to wait awhile, so what will you do? go away.!

 

My spiritual master had A personal visitation of Nityananda Prabhu after many years practice from birth, telling him to get out and give the mercy to others in need, and thereby you will increase your capitol. So it comes down to give and get. If we are generous with what we have received so much conviction will come you'll be rolling on the ground in ecstacy you won't be needing a sign to convince you.

Distribute prasadam or holy literature, talk to all about that great mesiah Sri Chaitanya. Chant Dayal Nitai.... Bhaja Gauranga Kaha Gauranga Laha Gauranga Nama and They will soon increase your confidence. Let go of the mind and replace your thoughts with Nitai-Gauranga-Jaya Satchinandana Gaura Hari, visit the holly places.... do parikram in the foot steppes of the saints, be charitable and kind to little old ladies. It'll all help to dissipate the clouds of depression.

 

Regarding the drug induced experiences the Vedas talk of soma revealing certain dimentions especially on the subtle astral plains, that may well bring new experience to ones consciousness but once again what value is it to our eternal wellfare, we may well be attracted to wanting it just as we want objects of the senses and mind in this gross physical world, but does that mean we really need it. If we accept Krsna 's word He says it's all indirect or misdirected worship of Him. And really a waste of the precious time we have in our hand.

 

Excuse me if I'm breaking the interesting flow of some of the other contributions on this thread but I had to respond to your question further back.

[Guruvani]

 

webster dictionary: phenomenon: a remarkable or unusual person, thing, or appearance.

 

webster thesarus: phenomenon: appearance, circumstance, curiosity, episode, event, fact, happening, incident, marvel, miracle, occurence, prodigy, rarity, sensation, sight, spectacle, wonder.

 

Then let's look at origins of the word.

 

 

[Late Latin<tt> phaenomenon</tt>, from Greek<tt> phainomenon</tt>, from neuter present participle of<tt> phainesthai</tt>, to appear. See<tt> bh-</tt>¹ in Indo-European Roots.]

 

The original latin form of the word means "to appear".

 

A phenomena is something that appears before our sense perception.

 

Brahman doesn't appear in the world of sense perception. Therefore, it is not a phenomena.

 

 

So, is Brahman noumena?

Let's see...

 

 

[German, from Greek<tt> nooumenon</tt>, from neuter present passive participle of<tt> noein</tt>, to perceive by thought, from<tt> nous</tt>, mind.]<hr align="left" width="25%">noumen·al (-m-nl) adj

 

Even noumena is perceived by thought in the mind, so Brahman is not noumena either.

 

Brahman is spirit and as such can only be percieved with the spiritul soul proper and not in the eyes or the mind.

[bija]

Good investigating Guruvani. Best to leave the finer details of the english language to the scholarly...

 

 

Brahman is spirit and as such can only be percieved with the spiritul soul proper and not in the eyes or the mind. quote by Guruvani

 

Not getting caught up with words and all that....

 

How do we the soul proper perceive Brahman or ParaBrahman?

Maybe an answer to this question would be of assistance to us in our search to find God whilst in this world?

 

How do we perceive the spiritual reality? What relationship does the soul proper have with these senses for use in devotional service? These can all be spiritualized can't they?.....a sincere question here...your thoughts would be appreciated.

[bija]

Just finished typing this out firstly for my own benefit and for others also.

 

Maybe by reflecting on this introduction, oneday we may deeply perceive what all this actually means.

 

All this answers my above post (#49)...so from here the journey begins. A lifetime(s) journey.

 

Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakura explains this introduction in the rest of his Sri Krsna Samhita.

 

 

From first page of Srila Bhaktivinoda’s Sri Krsna Samhita

The four original Bhagavatam verses

jnanam parama-guhyam me

Knowledge about Me as described

In the scriptures is very confidential

---------

yavan aham

I myself in my eternal form

 

***direct perception of the Absolute Truth***

aham evasam evagre nanyad yat sad-asat param

pascad aham yad etac ca yo vasisyeta so smy aham

Brahma, it is I, the Personality of Godhead, who was existing before the creation, when there was nothing but Myself. Nor was there the material nature, the cause of this creation. That which you see now is also I, the Personality of Godhead, and after annihilation what remains will also be I, the Personality of Godhead. (1)

********************************************************************

yad vijnana-samanvitam

It has to be realized

-----------------------------

yatha-bhavo

My transcendental existence

 

***Indirect perception of the Absolute Truth****

rte rtham yat pratiyeta na pratiyeta catmani

tad vidyad atmano mayam yathabhaso yatha tamah

O Brahma, whatever appears to be of any value, if it is without relation to Me, has no reality. Know it as my illusory energy, that reflection which appears to be in darkness. (2)

**********************************************************************

sarahasyam

With devotional service

 

-----------------------------

yad-rupa-guna-karmakah

My color, qualities, and activities

 

****The activities of the living entities and the Supreme Lord, known as

the science of love****

yatha mahanti bhutani bhutesuccavacesv anu

pravistany apravistani tatha tesu na tesv aham

O Brahma, please know that the universal elements enter into the cosmos and at the same time do not enter into the cosmos, similarly, I Myself also exist within everything created, and at the same time I am outside of everything (3)

****************************************************************

tad-angam ca

The necessary paraphernalia

for that process

 

--------------------------------

.

tathaiva tattva-vijnanam

By factual realization

 

***The confidential science of devotional service****

etavad eva jijnanam tattva-jijnasunatmanah

anvaya-vyatirekabhyam yat syat sarvatra sarvada

A person who is searching after the Supreme Absolute Truth, the Personality of Godhead, must certainly search for it up to this, in all circumstances, in all space and time, and both directly and indirectly. (4)

**********************************************************************

grahana gaditam maya

You may take it up carefully

astu te mad-anugrahat

Let it be awakened within you

Out of My causeless mercy

************************************************************************

[Shakti-Fan]

 

 

 

Even noumena is perceived by thought in the mind, so Brahman is not noumena either.

 

Brahman is spirit and as such can only be percieved with the spiritul soul proper and not in the eyes or the mind.

 

These are only words borrowed by the crude English language from other slightly less crude European origins. In a way noumena means the opposite of phenomena. Therefore if percieved it would be perceived with consciousness by some kind of revelation rather than through the senses and mind. These words are only tools to convey thoughts. We are speaking and writing in a rather barbaric tongue. I know; How can one write with the "tongue"? Because I am using the word figuratively rather than literally. Remember Srila Sridhar Maharaja's axiom: "As denotation increases, connotation decreases. And, as connotation increases denotation decreases." This takes place on all levels of thought.