to Vish/Tanmaya- Changing Poison into Nectar - Divine Mantras

November 21, 2006

Namaste Vish and Tanmaya,

thank you for this interesting discussion and I am also very

interested in what Swamiji says about the matter.

Just a thought: what Vish said, about laughing at undesirable thoughts

or emotions as they present themselves and taking their appearance as

a game, seems to me to be a valuable way to 'disarm' them. It made me

think of a story about a brother wearing a bear mask, trying to

frighten his little sister. This only worked as long as she did not

recognize her beloved brother. As soon as she saw it was him and

laughed, he took off the mask and hugged her. As we are told that

there is nothing but the Guru, surely these thoughts and emotions that

bother or scare us, are only masks. We can say 'look, you got me going

there for a while, but now I see it is You, you can show me your real

face and hug me.' Or we can run home and call our Mom,

with love,

Henny

, "inspectionconnection108"

<inspectionconnection108 wrote:

>

> Namaste Tanmaya

>

> I appreciate your comment about offering love to dark thoughts. I

sat

> and thought about it for some time, read some of the Kasyapa Sutras,

> and analyzed my recent attempts to "stop, look, and listen" when a

> thought or emotion or mood arises which takes we away from my goal.

>

> For example, there is a habit in me to become frustrated and

> emotionally agitated very quickly when things "do not go right". I

> loose control and create disharmony around me. Not life supporting.

>

> Now, as I have been "consciously watching" this thought arise and

> begin to take hold of me, over the past several weeks, I realized it

> was just an old habit, and the ego's attempt to control situations,

> rather than to accept what happened and flow with it. In plain

word,

> trust the universe rather than fight it.

>

> In that context, I could view the thought as a hateful thing, to be

> crushed and killed, or, the ego playing its game in order to keep

> control and create disharmony.

>

> So, I made the attempt to view it, and accept it, as a game, and

> laughted at it and its folly, and felt some slight love for it.

>

> This seemed to take some of the sting out of it and it subsided and

> quietness dominated that much quicker. The love felt much better

than

> self loathing and disgust and the positive energy does not "add fuel

> to the fire" of a negative emotion.

>

> Now, I cannot vouch for this being a teaching of Maa, but it came to

> me in a quiet way, as a result of the "stop, look, and listen"

> technique I have been using. So, I followed it and it felt right.

>

> Now, I am working on inserting the proper mantra when the improper

> mood arises, repeating the mantra most descriptive of the negative

> emotion, then, using the mantra representing the positive emotion.

The

> goal: to insert the positive emotion in place of the negative one.

>

> This is the technique taught in the 4th Kashyapa Sutra

>

> I will ask Swami about giving a negative thought love.

>

> Jai Maa, Jai Swami

>

> love

>

> vishweshwar

>

> , "ty_maa" <dsjames@> wrote:

> >

> > Dear Vish,

> >

> > You might want to check that one with the Guru's first: to offer

love to

> > thoughts which one recognizes to be dark, contracted, and wholly

> > negitive. I don't offer a contrary opinion--just that it would be

good

> > to check. I would love to hear the answer.

> >

> > Respectfully'

> >

> > Tanmaya

> >

> > , "inspectionconnection108"

> > <inspectionconnection108@> wrote:

> > >

> > > Namaste

> > >

> > > That is a great goal- to offer love to those thoughts which veer

us

> > > from our goal. When Maa Chandi slays the Great Ego, She sends

him to

> > > Heaven not to a lower world.

> > >

> > > With this new technique from Sutra 4, we should be able to

effectively

> > > witness one unhealthy emotions change into life supporting ones.

> > >

> > > Thanks for reminding me of the Goal

> > >

> > > Jai Maa Jai Swami

> > >

> > > love

> > > Vishweshwar

> > >

> > > , "kaliananda_saraswati"

> > > kaliananda_saraswati@ wrote:

> > > >

> > > > Namaste,

> > > >

> > > > Kasyapa Sutra 4 says ........"It is our own attachment which

makes

> > > > for cloudy judgement. It is just our ignorant attachments

which

> > > > make for a lack of discrimination. The ego is very subtle and

will

> > > > try to trick us. But by constant vigilance we can gain

control,

> > > > self-mastery, and a greater degree of efficiency. Then we

will

> > > > attempt to satisfy only those desires which will produce the

fruit

> > > > of knowledge, not the fruit of ignorance."

> > > >

> > > > Join us in offering peace and love to those thoughts and

attitudes

> > > > that veer us from our goal.

> > > >

> > > > Jai Maa

> > > >

> > > > , "inspectionconnection108"

> > > > <inspectionconnection108@> wrote:

> > > > >

> > > > > Namaste

> > > > >

> > > > > Today in our discussion group on the live chat, we discussed

an

> > > > > amazing technique for releasing ourselves from the bondage

of

> > > > > behaviors which take us away from our goal of self

realization.

> > > > > On page 39 of the Kasyapa Sutras, we discovered that

specific

> > > > mantras

> > > > > can be used to control emotions and behaviors. There are

mantras

> > > > > which correspond to specific emotions, such as sorrow, lust,

> > > > doubt, etc.

> > > > > By repeating those mantras, you gain control of the specific

> > > > emotion.

> > > > > Then, you can recite the mantra of the attitude you wish to

> > replace

> > > > > the emotion with. For example, peace, dharma, forgiveness,

> > > > abundance,

> > > > > light, pleasure, etc.

> > > > >

> > > > > For example, repeat one mala of bham, confusion, then

another mala

> > > > of

> > > > > sam, peace. In this way you can watch confusion transform

into

> > > > peace.

> > > > >

> > > > > It is so simple, so practical, and so profound. Those of us

in

> > the

> > > > > group today all took a sankalpa of watching our emotions,

and when

> > > > a

> > > > > non-life supporting emotion rears its head, we will repeat

the

> > > > mantra

> > > > > of it, then replace it with the positive attitude by

repeating

> > that

> > > > > mantra.

> > > > >

> > > > > I wish I could list all the mantras, but there are too many.

I

> > > > hope

> > > > > you can all obtain a copy of the book: Shree Maa: the Guru

and

> > the

> > > > > Goddess and try this technique.

> > > > >

> > > > > Those of us practicing this technique, will share our

discoveries

> > > > on

> > > > > line. Please join. The more of us practicing together, the

> > > > stronger

> > > > > the influence.

> > > > >

> > > > > I thank Maa and Swami for giving us this gift, another pearl

of

> > > > wisdom

> > > > > to add to string of pearls hanging around our necks.

> > > > > Please make me worthy of this gift, and increase my devotion

and

> > > > bring

> > > > > devotion to our entire Devi Mandir family, and thru our

family,

> > and

> > > > > the families of our families, bring pure devotion and peace

to

> > this

> > > > > entire Uni- Verse.

> > > > > One undivided verse, the refrain of the song of God. The

eternal

> > > > love

> > > > > song which pervades every note sung, and fills every heart

with

> > > > bliss,

> > > > > Jai Maa.

> > > > >

> > > > > Jai Maa Jai Swami

> > > > >

> > > > > love

> > > > >

> > > > > vishweshwar

> > > > >

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

November 21, 2006

Dear All,

This might evolve into a fruitful discussion and I am willing to take it

as far as you (collectively) wish.

It is a "hot" subject for several reasons, and so it would be expedient

to take it in small clearly defined steps, and not attribute to another

a view, or even, a whole belief system, which that person has not

clearly owned. To do so would be to fall into unconscious identification

with very old collective thought patterns, and their very old

relationships and dynamics. Most of which are highly unfruitful.

That said, I would like to add to the discussion the possibility that

there may be a significant difference between the quite impotent and

fleeting "thoughts" which continuously cloud one's consciousness as

compulsive "stream-of-consciousness", and with which every sadhaka must

contend, and the alleged existence of great collective thought-forms,

which would be samashties, or collectives, of enormous chunks of human

emotional, or vital energy (accumulated during the entire evolution of

human experience) of, for instance, fear, pain, killing rage, jealousy,

etc.

In the case of the latter, they would not be like human beings,

possessing a soul, many layers of very mixed life experience, and all

that the psychologists east and west study, and hence be redeemable by

compassion love, a second chance, and proper training. Rather, they

would be mere slivers of consciousness associated with powerful

energetic "bodies" , living in some "space" invisible to us, but not far

away, and (very much like a virus-computer or biological-) driven by a

simple program; not someone you could talk to beyond its subject of

interest.

In any case, that's more or less the theory of collective thought-forms,

sometimes refered to as demons, sometimes as asuras, sometimes as

archetypes.

Perhaps not everyone believes in the existence of such entities, and

religious life certainly doesn't depend on such belief. Still, the

concept keeps turning up here and there, even in the modern world; for

instance, in Tolkens great trilogy (which though fictional, has worked

the subject from every angle of the human/thought-form relationship),

possibly they are an explaination of, for instance, Hitler's Germany

and, in any case, they certainly dominate the action scenes in our own

Chandi.

One question which arises in the case of one who might accept (albeit

tentatively) the objective reality of such thought-forms or asuras:

What would be the real relationship between my small bit of brief

individual aggresive reactivity, and the corresponding demon or asura

depicted in, for instance, the Chandi?

Respectfully,

Tanmaya

, "henny_v_i" <henny_v_i wrote:

>

> Namaste Vish and Tanmaya,

>

> thank you for this interesting discussion and I am also very

> interested in what Swamiji says about the matter.

> Just a thought: what Vish said, about laughing at undesirable thoughts

> or emotions as they present themselves and taking their appearance as

> a game, seems to me to be a valuable way to 'disarm' them. It made me

> think of a story about a brother wearing a bear mask, trying to

> frighten his little sister. This only worked as long as she did not

> recognize her beloved brother. As soon as she saw it was him and

> laughed, he took off the mask and hugged her. As we are told that

> there is nothing but the Guru, surely these thoughts and emotions that

> bother or scare us, are only masks. We can say 'look, you got me going

> there for a while, but now I see it is You, you can show me your real

> face and hug me.' Or we can run home and call our Mom,

>

> with love,

> Henny

, "inspectionconnection108"

> inspectionconnection108@ wrote:

> >

> > Namaste Tanmaya

> >

> > I appreciate your comment about offering love to dark thoughts. I

> sat

> > and thought about it for some time, read some of the Kasyapa Sutras,

> > and analyzed my recent attempts to "stop, look, and listen" when a

> > thought or emotion or mood arises which takes we away from my goal.

> >

> > For example, there is a habit in me to become frustrated and

> > emotionally agitated very quickly when things "do not go right". I

> > loose control and create disharmony around me. Not life supporting.

> >

> > Now, as I have been "consciously watching" this thought arise and

> > begin to take hold of me, over the past several weeks, I realized it

> > was just an old habit, and the ego's attempt to control situations,

> > rather than to accept what happened and flow with it. In plain

> word,

> > trust the universe rather than fight it.

> >

> > In that context, I could view the thought as a hateful thing, to be

> > crushed and killed, or, the ego playing its game in order to keep

> > control and create disharmony.

> >

> > So, I made the attempt to view it, and accept it, as a game, and

> > laughted at it and its folly, and felt some slight love for it.

> >

> > This seemed to take some of the sting out of it and it subsided and

> > quietness dominated that much quicker. The love felt much better

> than

> > self loathing and disgust and the positive energy does not "add fuel

> > to the fire" of a negative emotion.

> >

> > Now, I cannot vouch for this being a teaching of Maa, but it came to

> > me in a quiet way, as a result of the "stop, look, and listen"

> > technique I have been using. So, I followed it and it felt right.

> >

> > Now, I am working on inserting the proper mantra when the improper

> > mood arises, repeating the mantra most descriptive of the negative

> > emotion, then, using the mantra representing the positive emotion.

> The

> > goal: to insert the positive emotion in place of the negative one.

> >

> > This is the technique taught in the 4th Kashyapa Sutra

> >

> > I will ask Swami about giving a negative thought love.

> >

> > Jai Maa, Jai Swami

> >

> > love

> >

> > vishweshwar

> >

> > , "ty_maa" <dsjames@> wrote:

> > >

> > > Dear Vish,

> > >

> > > You might want to check that one with the Guru's first: to offer

> love to

> > > thoughts which one recognizes to be dark, contracted, and wholly

> > > negitive. I don't offer a contrary opinion--just that it would be

> good

> > > to check. I would love to hear the answer.

> > >

> > > Respectfully'

> > >

> > > Tanmaya

> > >

> > > , "inspectionconnection108"

> > > <inspectionconnection108@> wrote:

> > > >

> > > > Namaste

> > > >

> > > > That is a great goal- to offer love to those thoughts which veer

> us

> > > > from our goal. When Maa Chandi slays the Great Ego, She sends

> him to

> > > > Heaven not to a lower world.

> > > >

> > > > With this new technique from Sutra 4, we should be able to

> effectively

> > > > witness one unhealthy emotions change into life supporting ones.

> > > >

> > > > Thanks for reminding me of the Goal

> > > >

> > > > Jai Maa Jai Swami

> > > >

> > > > love

> > > > Vishweshwar

> > > >

> > > > , "kaliananda_saraswati"

> > > > kaliananda_saraswati@ wrote:

> > > > >

> > > > > Namaste,

> > > > >

> > > > > Kasyapa Sutra 4 says ........"It is our own attachment which

> makes

> > > > > for cloudy judgement. It is just our ignorant attachments

> which

> > > > > make for a lack of discrimination. The ego is very subtle and

> will

> > > > > try to trick us. But by constant vigilance we can gain

> control,

> > > > > self-mastery, and a greater degree of efficiency. Then we

> will

> > > > > attempt to satisfy only those desires which will produce the

> fruit

> > > > > of knowledge, not the fruit of ignorance."

> > > > >

> > > > > Join us in offering peace and love to those thoughts and

> attitudes

> > > > > that veer us from our goal.

> > > > >

> > > > > Jai Maa

> > > > >

> > > > > , "inspectionconnection108"

> > > > > <inspectionconnection108@> wrote:

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Namaste

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Today in our discussion group on the live chat, we discussed

> an

> > > > > > amazing technique for releasing ourselves from the bondage

> of

> > > > > > behaviors which take us away from our goal of self

> realization.

> > > > > > On page 39 of the Kasyapa Sutras, we discovered that

> specific

> > > > > mantras

> > > > > > can be used to control emotions and behaviors. There are

> mantras

> > > > > > which correspond to specific emotions, such as sorrow, lust,

> > > > > doubt, etc.

> > > > > > By repeating those mantras, you gain control of the specific

> > > > > emotion.

> > > > > > Then, you can recite the mantra of the attitude you wish to

> > > replace

> > > > > > the emotion with. For example, peace, dharma, forgiveness,

> > > > > abundance,

> > > > > > light, pleasure, etc.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > For example, repeat one mala of bham, confusion, then

> another mala

> > > > > of

> > > > > > sam, peace. In this way you can watch confusion transform

> into

> > > > > peace.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > It is so simple, so practical, and so profound. Those of us

> in

> > > the

> > > > > > group today all took a sankalpa of watching our emotions,

> and when

> > > > > a

> > > > > > non-life supporting emotion rears its head, we will repeat

> the

> > > > > mantra

> > > > > > of it, then replace it with the positive attitude by

> repeating

> > > that

> > > > > > mantra.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > I wish I could list all the mantras, but there are too many.

> I

> > > > > hope

> > > > > > you can all obtain a copy of the book: Shree Maa: the Guru

> and

> > > the

> > > > > > Goddess and try this technique.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Those of us practicing this technique, will share our

> discoveries

> > > > > on

> > > > > > line. Please join. The more of us practicing together, the

> > > > > stronger

> > > > > > the influence.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > I thank Maa and Swami for giving us this gift, another pearl

> of

> > > > > wisdom

> > > > > > to add to string of pearls hanging around our necks.

> > > > > > Please make me worthy of this gift, and increase my devotion

> and

> > > > > bring

> > > > > > devotion to our entire Devi Mandir family, and thru our

> family,

> > > and

> > > > > > the families of our families, bring pure devotion and peace

> to

> > > this

> > > > > > entire Uni- Verse.

> > > > > > One undivided verse, the refrain of the song of God. The

> eternal

> > > > > love

> > > > > > song which pervades every note sung, and fills every heart

> with

> > > > > bliss,

> > > > > > Jai Maa.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Jai Maa Jai Swami

> > > > > >

> > > > > > love

> > > > > >

> > > > > > vishweshwar

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

November 22, 2006

Tanmaya,

I think the relationship is that our small agressive or depressive

thoughts feed it. It is a collective energy force that has it's own

kind of synergy and influence. We might feel this for instance when

walking into a house where there has been a lot of grief or violence.

Many cultures have methods for cleansing such thought forms but their

reality, while unseen by most, can be felt by many....effecting moods,

and patience, and such. We get pulled by them but also can contribute

to them by indulging in our own little outbursts or ruminations.

Jai Maa

Sadhu Maa

, "ty_maa" <dsjames wrote:

>

> Dear All,

>

> This might evolve into a fruitful discussion and I am willing to take it

> as far as you (collectively) wish.

>

> It is a "hot" subject for several reasons, and so it would be expedient

> to take it in small clearly defined steps, and not attribute to another

> a view, or even, a whole belief system, which that person has not

> clearly owned. To do so would be to fall into unconscious identification

> with very old collective thought patterns, and their very old

> relationships and dynamics. Most of which are highly unfruitful.

>

> That said, I would like to add to the discussion the possibility that

> there may be a significant difference between the quite impotent and

> fleeting "thoughts" which continuously cloud one's consciousness as

> compulsive "stream-of-consciousness", and with which every sadhaka must

> contend, and the alleged existence of great collective thought-forms,

> which would be samashties, or collectives, of enormous chunks of human

> emotional, or vital energy (accumulated during the entire evolution of

> human experience) of, for instance, fear, pain, killing rage, jealousy,

> etc.

>

> In the case of the latter, they would not be like human beings,

> possessing a soul, many layers of very mixed life experience, and all

> that the psychologists east and west study, and hence be redeemable by

> compassion love, a second chance, and proper training. Rather, they

> would be mere slivers of consciousness associated with powerful

> energetic "bodies" , living in some "space" invisible to us, but not far

> away, and (very much like a virus-computer or biological-) driven by a

> simple program; not someone you could talk to beyond its subject of

> interest.

>

> In any case, that's more or less the theory of collective thought-forms,

> sometimes refered to as demons, sometimes as asuras, sometimes as

> archetypes.

>

> Perhaps not everyone believes in the existence of such entities, and

> religious life certainly doesn't depend on such belief. Still, the

> concept keeps turning up here and there, even in the modern world; for

> instance, in Tolkens great trilogy (which though fictional, has worked

> the subject from every angle of the human/thought-form relationship),

> possibly they are an explaination of, for instance, Hitler's Germany

> and, in any case, they certainly dominate the action scenes in our own

> Chandi.

>

> One question which arises in the case of one who might accept (albeit

> tentatively) the objective reality of such thought-forms or asuras:

>

> What would be the real relationship between my small bit of brief

> individual aggresive reactivity, and the corresponding demon or asura

> depicted in, for instance, the Chandi?

>

> Respectfully,

>

> Tanmaya

>

November 22, 2006

Dear Sadhumaa,

Thank you; I always admire your sober and balanced views. You seem to

be taking a sort of middleground between a subjective and objective

understanding of obstructive forces which in spiritual practice we are

attempting to purify.

And that also helps to clarify for me the subject which I really want to

ask about: not so much an examination of the troublesome negatives in

our sadhana, but as to whether the use of Chandipath is generally

understood by members as an objective, or macrocosmic activity, or

one dealing with subjective sadhana and purification, ie. as a microsmic

exercise.

I believe that in the East, the majority of Chandi sadhakas are thinking

in terms of objective Gods and

asuras. And perhaps in the West, most are relating to the Chandi in

terms of more personal or microcosmic psychology, purification, and

spiritual advancement.

I confess that when I read the posts advocating that one offer love to

the negative "thoughts", alarm bells went off throughout my whole body,

and a flashing red light spelled our "DANGER!", similar to what I would

feel if a hypothetical twelve year old daughter were to announce to me

one day that "I have been playing with a ouiji board and I just love the

new friend that comes to me then".

However, even though we are still awaiting Swamiji's comments, I an able

to see that for one who is thinking entirely in terms of the subjective

application of Chandipath, such a view is perfectly reasonable, and

probably effective as well.

Thank you again for your post.

Respectfully,

Tanmaya

, "Sadhu Maa" <sadumaa wrote:

>

> Tanmaya,

> I think the relationship is that our small agressive or depressive

> thoughts feed it. It is a collective energy force that has it's own

> kind of synergy and influence. We might feel this for instance when

> walking into a house where there has been a lot of grief or violence.

> Many cultures have methods for cleansing such thought forms but their

> reality, while unseen by most, can be felt by many....effecting moods,

> and patience, and such. We get pulled by them but also can contribute

> to them by indulging in our own little outbursts or ruminations.

> Jai Maa

> Sadhu Maa

>

> , "ty_maa" dsjames@ wrote:

> >

> > Dear All,

> >

> > This might evolve into a fruitful discussion and I am willing to

take it

> > as far as you (collectively) wish.

> >

> > It is a "hot" subject for several reasons, and so it would be

expedient

> > to take it in small clearly defined steps, and not attribute to

another

> > a view, or even, a whole belief system, which that person has not

> > clearly owned. To do so would be to fall into unconscious

identification

> > with very old collective thought patterns, and their very old

> > relationships and dynamics. Most of which are highly unfruitful.

> >

> > That said, I would like to add to the discussion the possibility

that

> > there may be a significant difference between the quite impotent and

> > fleeting "thoughts" which continuously cloud one's consciousness as

> > compulsive "stream-of-consciousness", and with which every sadhaka

must

> > contend, and the alleged existence of great collective

thought-forms,

> > which would be samashties, or collectives, of enormous chunks of

human

> > emotional, or vital energy (accumulated during the entire evolution

of

> > human experience) of, for instance, fear, pain, killing rage,

jealousy,

> > etc.

> >

> > In the case of the latter, they would not be like human beings,

> > possessing a soul, many layers of very mixed life experience, and

all

> > that the psychologists east and west study, and hence be redeemable

by

> > compassion love, a second chance, and proper training. Rather, they

> > would be mere slivers of consciousness associated with powerful

> > energetic "bodies" , living in some "space" invisible to us, but not

far

> > away, and (very much like a virus-computer or biological-) driven by

a

> > simple program; not someone you could talk to beyond its subject of

> > interest.

> >

> > In any case, that's more or less the theory of collective

thought-forms,

> > sometimes refered to as demons, sometimes as asuras, sometimes as

> > archetypes.

> >

> > Perhaps not everyone believes in the existence of such entities, and

> > religious life certainly doesn't depend on such belief. Still, the

> > concept keeps turning up here and there, even in the modern world;

for

> > instance, in Tolkens great trilogy (which though fictional, has

worked

> > the subject from every angle of the human/thought-form

relationship),

> > possibly they are an explaination of, for instance, Hitler's Germany

> > and, in any case, they certainly dominate the action scenes in our

own

> > Chandi.

> >

> > One question which arises in the case of one who might accept

(albeit

> > tentatively) the objective reality of such thought-forms or asuras:

> >

> > What would be the real relationship between my small bit of brief

> > individual aggresive reactivity, and the corresponding demon or

asura

> > depicted in, for instance, the Chandi?

> >

> > Respectfully,

> >

> > Tanmaya

> >

>

November 22, 2006

Tanmaya,

One more analogy related to this. Besides what has been already said,

I do think that when early in the process of trying to make a change

in a long standing thinking or reaction pattern we are more vulnerable

to the influence of the thought energy forms around us. One might

think of it like when an alcoholic is early in the process of sobriety

or when someone is trying to give up overeating sweets....early in the

process we are more vulnerable to the enviroment, to what our friends

are doing, to what is placed in front of us...it is harder to resist

that drink or sweet for inastance. After some time when we have

detoxed from the old pattern and gotten our feet under us more so that

we are consciously making different choices it might be easier for us

to be exposed to things while not getting pulled by them.

Moral of the story, when early in the process of changing a habit take

some time to the best of our ability to not get exposed to others or

media that would reinforce that habit. I think this combined with the

japa might help jump start new patterns.