Self Knowledge and Self Realization-7 / michael

[Guest guest]

, "Michael Bowes"

<aumshanti wrote:

>

> _____

>

>

[]

> On Behalf Of yosyx

> Friday, November 17, 2006 11:44 PM

>

> Re: Self Knowledge and Self

> Realization-7

>

 

<courtesy snip>

 

> >

> > mb: What does he mean when he allegedly writes:

> >

> >

> >

> > "As there are no desires left in him, nothing in the world

> > of sense can ever tempt him."

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > What does it mean?

> >

> >

> >

>

> that, having lost all identification, saint's

> apparent life is not conducted nor influenced

> by response to desires of any sort, which stem

> from identifying self with body, spirit or any

> other entity.

>

> >

> >

> > Persons make certain proclamations about being beyond "sense

> temptation",

> > yet they apparently indulge in what may be characterized as the

> enjoyment of

> > "sense" objects.

>

> exactly. apparently...

>

> >

> >

> >

> > So I ask, "What does it mean when it is stated, ".as there are no

> desires

> > left in him, nothing in the world of sense can ever tempt him."?

> >

> >

> >

> > ??????????????

> >

>

> precisely what i said above; though obviously,

> the identifying observer attributes and interprets

> the saint's apparent actions according to his/her

> own presumptions... it is all in the eyes of the

> beholder. the saint has no persona to be tempted.

>

> >

> >

> > Love and peace,

> >

> >

> >

> > michael

> >

>

> shabat shalom to you, my friend, and all

>

> in love

> yosy

>

>

>

>

>

> mb: Shalom to you as well my friend.

>

> I have read your words and I understand what you mean. I knew it

and

> understood it before your reply was written. I understood it

because it is

> the same worn out explanation for why an alleged sage says one

thing yet

> does another.

 

 

 

i do not buy that. imo, a 'sage', or simply 'a mentsh'

is someone whose words and actions are in total harmony.

 

 

 

It's the same reasoning that I have used with mySelf.

>

> My only point is that imho the "sages" would seem "cooler" to me if

they

> just didn't talk about how far beyond temptation of sense objects

that they

> are. Why do I care that they are beyond the temptation of the sense

> objects. Why do I care that they have no desires?

>

> Do you care that they are beyond temptation?

 

 

 

frankly, i couldn't care less.

 

 

>

> Krishna sported with the Gopis. The Pandava brothers were all

married

> simultaneously to the same woman. Rama was going to kill his own

wife

> because she might have been tainted by Ravana (fortunately Hanuman

talked

> some sense into him). David and Solomon of the Bible were both

master

> womanizers. J. Krishnamurti, Yogi Bhajan, Sri Yogiraj Swami

Satchidananda,

> and Ramesh are/were womanizers too. St. Peter denied Jesus to save

his own

> skin. Rajneesh was a dope head and Chogyam Trungpa was a drunk. A

very

> high percentage of the catholic priests at my high school were

definitely,

> liars, child molesters, drunks and psychopaths. I could go on and

on.

>

> I myself am as bad as anyone else. I don't care. I don't have a

persona.

> I'm not doing anything or doing anyone (at least not at the moment).

>

 

 

lol

 

 

> My point and my question is: Why is it necessary for certain

preachers,

> yogis, jnanis, swamis and various satsang teachers / givers to

proclaim that

> they are free from desire and temptation of the sense objects? Why

bring it

> up? Why write it down?

 

 

 

hehe it is a good publicity stunt, isn't it? "the holy

should live from their holyness", as nasrudin says. they

have to make a living...

 

 

>

> I believe that the subject is always broached because human beings

> inherently know that certain activities and behaviors cause HARM

and PAIN

> and SUFFERING. And most of us do not want to cause HARM and PAIN

and

> SUFFERING. I believe that most of us really want peace and health

and love.

> The teacher, the sage is actually supposed to be promoting peace

and not

> promoting suffering, conflict and misunderstanding. People are

interested

> in spirituality because they want a more harmonious existence.

>

 

 

yes, most people. but there is also a rarest breed of

real seekers of truth, for truth sake.

 

 

 

> To promote harmony the teacher may preach transcendence. Can we

transcend

> the suffering and pain? Sure we can. I do. That's my excuse for my

> behavior. I have transcended it. I am actually pure consciousness

and all

> of this is just a "dream" that I'm hanging out in. I'm not doing

anything.

> I am the eternal witness. I am unborn and undying. Nothing really

matters

> for there is NoThing. I'm a very high guy, etc., etc., etc. Just

ask my

> ex-wife, she'll tell ya.

>

> But why would anyone ever question my behavior? I don't question

my own?

> After all, it's only an illusion, a dream.

>

> And finally - Yes, it is true, I too am free from desire. I'll

tell you my

> secret. I just participate in whatever activity that I am

presented with

> before the impulse has a chance to become desire. :-)

>

 

 

lol great! i'm sure we'll get along fine.

 

 

 

> Shalom, Salaam, Peace, Love and Warmest Regards to All,

>

> michael

>

 

 

My love is never ugly…

 

I am a lover of truth.

Even if she

Appears old

And ugly

And

Short-tempered.

 

Even when she hurts

And scorns

And nags.

 

Her arrows

And strikes

Are thousands times sweeter

Than hottest kisses

Of the most delightful

Lie.

 

_()_

yosy