Guest guest Posted November 11, 2006 Report Share Posted November 11, 2006 Om Datta Guru Dear Margaret, I was sent host of mails yesterday from a friend, she directed me to Joni Patry's article which might be useful for many (pls see below) Regards SJ Time Changes As an astrologer for over 25 years, I remember calculating charts in the 70s. This is something most astrologers have no remembrance of doing. For those who have calculated charts by hand, they have an understanding of the astronomical reasons for movement, time, and space. There is something in the process of the calculations that somehow gave you impressions of the individual you were preparing to read. By the time the chart preparation was complete, you felt you already knew the person. It was like a meditation that gave you insights into the soul of the client before you met them. Even though this sounds very tempting, believe me, I do not want to go back to calculating charts again, but I am glad I experienced it. [Time changes in an astrological chart are critical] <http://www.acclaimimages.com/_gallery/_pages/0001-0301-0623-0253.html> As a student I remember my teacher always warning me to be very careful with the time changes of the states that begin with the letter "I". They called it the "astrologer's nightmare". Before the log rhythms, longitude and latitude books we always had to refer to Doris Chase Doane's Time Changes in the USA or the World. This always was the very first step. Now we trust our computer programs to have this all checked out for us. I am writing this article because of the problems with time changes especially with the state of Illinois. I feel it is my duty to inform new students to errors that can be avoided by this specific information. A student of mine was born in Chicago in 1957 in August. I had done her Western chart previously years prior to this discovery. I checked and there was Daylight savings time, good, I did my careful checking before starting her calculations. Her reading was so accurate and uncanny that she became a student wanting to understand how such detailed predictions could have been made based on her birth details. As I immersed myself in the study of Vedic astrology she had her chart done by the many teachers I sponsored at by center. They had given her readings that gave her incredible hope and anticipation for a bright future. I predicted the same based on the fact that she has a Sun and Mars conjunction in the first house in Leo, and she was about to enter her Sun dasha, leaving a final difficult dasha of Venus. She had been on a downward spiral for sometime and couldn't wait for this needed positive change. The minute she entered her Sun dasha she lost everything. She lost her job, financial security, house, car and relationship. I couldn't understand why a dasha of a planet in its own sign (Sun in Leo) with Mars (yoga karaka) in the first house, in major raja and dhana yogas would cause her to loose everything. I thought, how was the Western chart analysis so accurate? I knew something was wrong so I went to my Time Changes Book I've had for over 25 years and here is what I found for the state of Illinois: "Prior to July 1, 1959, United States Standard Time was used in reckoning the date and time occurrence in the preparation of official certificates of births, stillbirths and deaths, regardless of whether or not Daylight Savings Time, War Time, or any other advanced time, by whatever term known, was in effect. On July 1, 1959 by Act of the General Assembly of the State of Illinois, the period between 2:00a.m.on the last Sunday in October, is known as State Standard Time, and is one hour in advance of the United States Standard Central Time. During the above period of time, reckoning of the date and time of occurrence in the preparation of official vital records is on State Standard Time." (Time Changes in the USA by Doris Chase Doane) This was a separate note in the back of the book. In other words when there was Daylight Savings Time it was still recorded in Standard Time. Computer programs will have it in Daylight Savings Time because it was in effect, but they do not make the adjustment that was made in recording the birth time. This is very clear with the state of Illinois. The state of Indiana is more ambiguous: "The time is recorded in the legal time in that area at the time of the event. There are no statutes in this state dealing with "time". The time of birth is considered confidential information and may be released only by court order." Iowa says: "Hour is recorded in the prevailing time at the date of the event" Sounds clear, but I've was warned to watch out for all these states in particular. Idaho states there was no legislation on the matter of the hour of birth being recorded for many years. Idaho as a Western state probably does not follow the same rules, but because it begins with the letter "I" I included it here. At any event if a client feels the reading doesn't fit you need to be suspicious of error in the birth time. It is wise to pay careful attention when the state begins with the letter "I". As for my student I finally figured out when I adjusted her time to Standard time it gave her a Virgo Ascendant/Lagna, shifting her Leo Sun/Mars to the 12th house. Now her Sun dasha made perfect sense. She entered into a dasha of the 12th house ruler (Sun) with the ruler of the 8th (Mars). This was an entirely different picture and did indicate a most difficult period of her life with great losses, and this is exactly what happened. Another important lesson gained here is the question of the "self fulfilling prophecy". Many have asked me; when you tell someone that life will improve isn't that a "self fulfilling prophecy" and people will make it happen? My answer now is a confident "No". My student was convinced she would experience good effects, and she couldn't wait for the change. She believed it wholeheartedly. But the belief and expectation did not create the "self-fulfilling prophecy". Furthermore I realized why the Western chart reading was so accurate, because with the Daylight Savings Time it gave me the Virgo Ascendant/Lagna I got with the corrected Vedic chart. If I had corrected the time for this chart I would not have given the same reading. I recently had a chart reading for someone born in Chicago during the summer in Daylight Savings Time before 1959, and I made the necessary adjustments. Meaning I manually took off the Daylight Savings Time the computer program automatically included. The reading went right on target. I felt confident as an astrologer knowing I had the necessary information needed to make accurate predictions. I thought to call my software provider to ask if they were aware of this dilemma, and they informed me all they are aware of is when there was Daylight Savings Time, not the gory details as to how it is recorded. As a matter of fact they were the ones that recommended that I write this article informing students of this problem. I think all these details should be included in programs such as it being listed as Daylight Savings Time/Recorded Standard Time, and the appropriate time automatically inserted. Astrologers that are not initiated in the process of calculating charts by hand are not usually trained the way we were, and expect the computer programs to insert all the minor discrepancies that we were trained to look for. I hope that by writing this article it will help many future astrologers avoid the many pitfalls and problems we seasoned astrologers have experienced. That is why we are paving the way for our future astrologers. , "Marg" <margie9 wrote: > > Dear Sunil > I think there might be a daylight saving , but perhaps Manjunath would kindly confirm what daylight saving he has used if any? > best wishes > M > - > suniljohn_2002 > > Friday, November 10, 2006 1:25 PM > Re: Rumsfield True Data > > > > Sorry for the typo, instead of 50, it should be 60 age in point a) > > SJ > > , "jjnet2000_in" jjnet2000_in@ > wrote: > > > > > > Om Datta Guru > > > > Dear Alan, > > > > Namaskar > > > > This is re the data posted by your kind self of his year of birth to > be > > 1947, is this from any reliable source > > > > a) He looks much older than 50, which would be if he is born 1947 > > > > b) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Donald_Rumsfield > > <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Donald_Rumsfield> gives its as 1932 born > > > > If anyone knows of any other data running kindly give feedback. > > > > On KNR site the data apparently might be 1932 if I am not wrong but > then > > he is using Sagi lagna, might be an error from his software I think > > since Shri Jyoti, Kala & Goravani all are giving for 1932 birth as Sc > 17 > > degs > > > > http://www.journalofastrology.com/ARTICLES/end_of_rumsfieldisms_10.htm > > > <http://www.journalofastrology.com/ARTICLES/end_of_rumsfieldisms_10.htm> > > > > Ur feedback would be most helpful > > > > Regards, > > > > Sunil John > > > > P.S: For reference quoting ur mail below > > > > > > > > However, using birth details of 17:40 hrs 9 July 1947 Chicago > > > Illinois to give a scorpio ascendant with natal Rahu/ketu in 4/10 > > > this would bring transit Rahu back to its Natal 4/10 axis. > > > > > > , McCrindle Alan alan@ wrote: > > > > > > Sateesh, > > > > > > My software must be a bit out - I still have True Rahu at 29 57. > > > > > > However there appears to be more than Rahu involved. Have a look at > > > Transit Saturn, Vimshottari and 4 other transit planets including > the > > > 10th lord in the12th. > > > > > > However, using birth details of 17:40 hrs 9 July 1947 Chicago > > > Illinois to give a scorpio ascendant with natal Rahu/ketu in 4/10 > > > this would bring transit Rahu back to its Natal 4/10 axis. > > > > > > Note further, that Transit Saturn entered his 10th house on 1st > > > November 2006 and at zero degrees and 23 minutes is now exactly > > > conjunct his natal Jupiter. > > > > > > In Vimshottari this birth time gives him Merc/Ven/Sun/Jup > > > > > > We would expect 10th and 8th house activation for a career end with > a > > > possible 5th house/lord (5th being 8th from the 10th) , 12th house, > > > (12th being the end of anything), and 9th house/lord - (9th is 12th > > > from the 10th). 7th house/lord may also come into play as a second > > > career house (10th from the 10th) > > > > > > Look at how these house and lords are represented in the dasha > bhukti > > > sequence! > > > > > > Mercury is 8th and 11th lord in 9th > > > Venus is 7th and 12th lord in the 8th, 12 houses from the dasha lord > > > mercury > > > Sun is 10th lord in the 8th, cj the maha dash lord venus > > > Jupiter is 2nd and 5th lord in the 10th > > > > > > Its a bit much taking timing down to the 4th level without any > > > rectification or confirmation that it can be used to predict other > > > events in his life. But a bit of fun anyway. > > > > > > > > > Alan McCrindle > > > The Yoga Place > > > Level 1, 374 Darling Street > > > Balmain, NSW, 2041 > > > Tel: 9555-7544 > > > Mobile: 0417-655-601 > > > http://www.yogaplace.com.au > > > > > > > > > On 09/11/2006, at 6:53 AM, Sateesh Batas wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > The Nodal change of sign that occured 3 hours back (True Nodes and > > > > Lahiri ayanamsa) seems to have done in Mr. Rumsfeld bang exact > when > > > > Rahu/Ketu moved into Aquarius/Leo. > > > > > > > > ======== > > > > > > > > > > http://news./s/ap/20061108/ap_on_go_ca_st_pe/rumsfeld_resigns > > > > > > > > Bush says Rumsfeld is stepping down > > > > By DAVID ESPO and LIZ SIDOTI, Associated Press Writers 13 minutes > > ago > > > > > > > > WASHINGTON - Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld stepped down as > > > > defense secretary on Wednesday, one day after midterm elections in > > > > which opposition to the war in Iraq contributed to heavy > Republican > > > > losses. > > > > > > > > > > > > President Bush said he would nominate Robert Gates, a former CIA > > > > director, to replace Rumsfeld at the Pentagon. > > > > > > > > Asked whether his announcement signaled a new direction in the war > > > > that has claimed the lives of more than 2,800 U.S. troops, Bush > > > > said, "Well, there's certainly going to be new leadership at the > > > > Pentagon." > > > > Bush lavished praise on Rumsfeld, who has spent six stormy years > at > > > > his post. The president disclosed he met with Gates last Sunday, > > > > two days before the elections in which Democrats swept to control > > > > of the House and possibly the Senate. > > > > Last week, as he campaigned to save the Republican majority, Bush > > > > declared that Rumsfeld would remain at the Pentagon through the > end > > > > of his term. > > > > Rumsfeld, 74, was in his second tour of duty as defense chief. He > > > > first held the job a generation ago, when he was appointed by > > > > President Ford. > > > > Whatever confidence Bush retained in Rumsfeld, the Cabinet > > > > officer's support in Congress had eroded significantly. Rep. Nancy > > > > Pelosi (news, bio, voting record), D-Calif., the House speaker-in- > > > > waiting, said at her first postelection news conference that Bush > > > > should replace the top civilian leadership at the Pentagon. > > > > And Senate Majority Leader Bill Frist, who had intervened in the > > > > past to shore up Rumsfeld, issued a statement saying, "Washington > > > > must now work together in a bipartisan way - Republicans and > > > > Democrats - to outline the path to success in Iraq." > > > > The Pentagon offered no date for Rumsfeld's departure. > > > > Gates, 63, has served as the president of Texas A&M University > > > > since August 2002, and as the university's interim dean of the > > > > George Bush School of Government and Public Service from 1999 to > > 2001. > > > > The school is home to the presidential library of Bush's father. > > > > Gates is a close friend of the Bush family, and particularly the > > > > first President Bush. > > > > He served as deputy national security adviser from 1989 to 1991 > and > > > > then as CIA director during the first Iraq war, from 1991 until > > 1993. > > > > Gates joined the CIA in 1966 and is the only agency employee to > > > > rise from an entry level job to the 7th floor director's office. > He > > > > served in the intelligence community for more than a quarter > > > > century, under six presidents. > > > > Bush has considered Gates for jobs before, including in 2005 when > > > > he was searching for a candidate to be the nation's first national > > > > intelligence director. > > > > His nomination must be confirmed by the Senate. > > > > Rep. Ike Skelton (news, bio, voting record), D-Mo., who is > expected > > > > to chair the House Armed Services Committee next year, said > > > > Rumsfeld's resignation "presents an important opportunity for our > > > > country to begin a new policy direction in Iraq and in the war on > > > > terrorism." > > > > He encouraged the Bush administration to take advantage of the > > > > fresh start. > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 11, 2006 Report Share Posted November 11, 2006 Dear Sunil Thanks for this, and for the link. I agree with everything she says, especially about the meditative process of calculating a chart by hand and 'evolving' an insight into the person, until you knew more than even the planets could tell you. My tutors told me that calculating a chart is half the process and sharpens the intuition, it is the science, while the interpretation is the art that is borne of completing the science systematically. On some levels I do miss calculating by hand which I always had to do in the sixties, seventies and eighties, but nowadays of course it easier with a computer, and faster, and some of the insights are lost. the obvious advantage of having done charts by hand is that you know where all the errors will be in a computer calculation. I never trust progs fully, and always check with a variety of 'old' charts I do trust calculations for, to see how far out the prog is when I first get the programme. With regard to zone times and daylight savings, over twenty years ago before computers and astro progs, I once took a week checking data for a lady who was born in Prussia, in a town which had changed its name due to Russian invasion, and for which I had no data. I had to travel several times into the city central library to do research on geography, history, war victors, as well as daylight time changes during the war, and how changes in the meridians affected this, before I could be confident of my data-----before attempting to see which time of day she was born, as she only had a date and place! The next learning curve was when she, delighted with the accuracy of the reading which I taped for her as I read, asked me to type it all up for her neatly!!! What would you have replied I wonder? - jjnet2000_in Saturday, November 11, 2006 6:32 AM Rumsfield True Data/DST & Joni Patry Om Datta Guru Dear Margaret, I was sent host of mails yesterday from a friend, she directed me to Joni Patry's article which might be useful for many (pls see below) Regards SJ Recent Activity a.. 9New Members Visit Your Group Mail Drag & drop With the all-new Mail Beta Y! Messenger Instant smiles Share photos while you IM friends. New business? Get new customers. List your web site in Search. . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 13, 2006 Report Share Posted November 13, 2006 Om Datta Guru Dear Margaret, Net was down, sorry for delay in reply. Yes u are so right calculating by hand is most essential and even KNR has written about it, that by the time one does it the planets are like speaking to u. A gentleman I know called Srikant from mumbai refuses to see every chart by the software, he just calculates minimum once a week even if he is busy, which is a good practice. The Prussia story that u wrote was most inspiring. > The next learning curve was when she, delighted with the accuracy of the reading which I taped for her as I read, asked me to type it all up for her neatly!!! What would you have replied I wonder? Ohh I would have typed it out since I love typing & have the fastest fingers around ) but want to learn how to do it with only the left hand as in the Bond movie ) best SJ , "Marg" <margie9 wrote: > > Dear Sunil > Thanks for this, and for the link. > > I agree with everything she says, especially about the meditative process of calculating a chart by hand and 'evolving' an insight into the person, until you knew more than even the planets could tell you. > > My tutors told me that calculating a chart is half the process and sharpens the intuition, it is the science, while the interpretation is the art that is borne of completing the science systematically. > > On some levels I do miss calculating by hand which I always had to do in the sixties, seventies and eighties, but nowadays of course it easier with a computer, and faster, and some of the insights are lost. the obvious advantage of having done charts by hand is that you know where all the errors will be in a computer calculation. I never trust progs fully, and always check with a variety of 'old' charts I do trust calculations for, to see how far out the prog is when I first get the programme. > > With regard to zone times and daylight savings, over twenty years ago before computers and astro progs, I once took a week checking data for a lady who was born in Prussia, in a town which had changed its name due to Russian invasion, and for which I had no data. I had to travel several times into the city central library to do research on geography, history, war victors, as well as daylight time changes during the war, and how changes in the meridians affected this, before I could be confident of my data-----before attempting to see which time of day she was born, as she only had a date and place! > > The next learning curve was when she, delighted with the accuracy of the reading which I taped for her as I read, asked me to type it all up for her neatly!!! What would you have replied I wonder? > > - > jjnet2000_in > > Saturday, November 11, 2006 6:32 AM > Rumsfield True Data/DST & Joni Patry > > > > Om Datta Guru > > Dear Margaret, > > I was sent host of mails yesterday from a friend, she directed me to > Joni Patry's article which might be useful for many (pls see below) > > Regards > > SJ > > > Recent Activity > a.. 9New Members > Visit Your Group > Mail > Drag & drop > > With the all-new > > Mail Beta > > Y! Messenger > Instant smiles > > Share photos while > > you IM friends. > > New business? > Get new customers. > > List your web site > > in Search. > . > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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