Seeing Yama

[Guest guest]

Have any of you or your relatives ever seen Yama or Yamadootas when they were close to death?. Can such a thing happen? Do good people see Vishnudootas, or is that possible only when the person is going to attain Moksha?

 

Just who are these beings who patrol every nook and corner of the world?

Are these beings witnessed only by dogs cows and other creatures? People tell me that dogs have the innate ability to witness beings from the other realm.

 

A few relatives of mine have seen beings of light on a very dark day. Could these beings of light penetrate this plane too?

 

I invite all the learned members on this forum to participate in this discussion.

[Avinash]

I have not come across any incident in which a person at the time of death claimed seeing yama or yamadootas. But I do remember an incident in which a child claimed that she was seeing her deceased mother.

 

The child died of cancer when she was only six years old. When she was only about two year old, her mother passed away. Her aunt (mother's sister) took care of her after that. She always addressed her aunt as her mother and never asked or mentioned about the mother who gave birth to her.

 

But, just before her death, she frantically told everyone to move aside. She said that her mother had come. People pointed towards her aunt and said to her, "This is your mother." She replied, "Yes, she is my mother. But my other mother has come. Do not block the way." And she was very happy that her mother had come to visit her.

[Guruvani]

I saw a documentary on TV about near-death experiences and I heard one guy telling a story about how some Yamaduta-like visions came and tried to drag him out of his body and he knew he was going to hell.

 

By some stroke of fate, he was revived and survived to tell the story.

He said that he called out to Jesus to save him as these devils were about to take him away.

Since Jesus was his idea of God, then maybe God intervened to save his soul.

 

After that experience the man became very religious and tried to mend his ways in hopes of avoiding such a fate at death next time around.

 

His descriptions of the visions were very similar to the Yamadutas described in the Puranas.

I was amazed to hear some guy actually telling a story about encountering the Yamadutas.

 

The Yamadutas are REAL!

[mahak]

yes

[sanatan]

A family member who lived what could be called a non-exemplary life died suddenly one morning, at a tragically young age, of a heart attack brought on by long-term alcoholism and hard drug use. His girl friend was with him when he passed, and told us that he had the most horrible expression on his face as he died...beyond imagination...she said she would carry the memory till the day she died.

 

The person who passed away was cruel, sarcastic, and exploititave of others as a way of life.

 

Those are the circumstances...what they signify is up to individual opinion.

[Guest guest]

There is no need to fear Yama Dharmaraj. He is a Jnani par excellence. Remember his conversation with child sage Nachiketas. How can anyone fear such a beautiful, enlightened soul? You're watching too many silly movies, I guess, which portray Yama as some kind of monster. In actuality, Yama is a strikingly handome celestial being. He is a great devotee of Lord Vishnu. Pray to Yama for knowledge, devotion, and detachment.

 

Hare Krishna! Yama Dharmaraj ki jai!

[Guruvani]

 

There is no need to fear Yama Dharmaraj. He is a Jnani par excellence. Remember his conversation with child sage Nachiketas. How can anyone fear such a beautiful, enlightened soul? You're watching too many silly movies, I guess, which portray Yama as some kind of monster. In actuality, Yama is a strikingly handome celestial being. He is a great devotee of Lord Vishnu. Pray to Yama for knowledge, devotion, and detachment.

 

Hare Krishna! Yama Dharmaraj ki jai!

 

Nobody said Yamaraja was a monster.

We are talking about the descriptions of the Yamadutas in the shastra.

[theist]

Read the experiences of one Mr. Howard Storm. A professor who mocked the very idea of God and life after death. That is until one day he took his own step into the great beyond and found himself deep into the Twilight Zone.

 

http://www.near-death.com/experiences/storm01.html

 

For his story scroll down to the index and read what is there.

 

Moral of the story; don't die an atheist.

[Guest guest]

Once in kind of a stressful situation I saw Prabhupada and Yama together. If you are aspiring devotee then Yama is nice to you like a senior godbrother. He's good-looking, too. Be nice then you'll see and experience nice things.

[Guest guest]

Yes, Yamaraja is the dearmost friend of the Vaisnava. His beauty has no bounds. His buffalo is quite red, and the noose of diamonds he carries is awesome.

 

Anything about Lord Yamaraja is quite enlivening and brings joy to the Vaisnava. As Vidura and Kingt Yudhisthira, he gives us timely instruction on how to live in this deteriorating age.

 

Haribol, ys, mahaksadasa

[bija]

Yes I had an NDE twelve years ago. There was much symbolism which I have understood more as time goes by.

 

There was an entity standing before the light at the end of the tunnel. He could be described as an agent of Yamaraja maybe. I have never been so scared when I realized that I was moving toward him in the tunnel.

 

When my being was present directly before this entity I cried out to the light,'who are you?' , the reply was wonderful.

 

Several things were spoken to me by several entities and then the last words were....'it is not your time...go back'.

 

I started descending back down the tunnel and awoke. I had been unconscious for about 9-10 hours....which seemed like a very short time while in this subtle plane.

[bija]

Maybe it is not correct to discuss any more....maybe it is a personal encounter.

 

But as memory has faded over the years with most things, this occurence is as clear in my mind as it was only yesterday.

[bija]

I think what I may share is that God is very kind and gentle.

 

Kindness and gentleness are two qualities which are very beneficial for the soul and it's well being; this life should be used for developing such.

 

Benignity: kindness and graciousness.

from the latin (bene) good and (gene) birth.

[Guest guest]

My grand mother had a NDE a couple of years before she actually did pass on She said she saw her brother (a fireman) in a world like my artwork, which at the time was inspired by the mandalas in the Tibetan book of the Dead( very Yamaduta like). He was suffering in this place which was burning and he was shaking his head also telling her to go back that she didn't belong there.

 

Since she got this life extention she did a lot of service for devotees and even danced and chanted in kirtan, took prasadam, then when she actually did leave her body in hospital, although I couldn't be there, I did manage to leave some chanting tapes with the nurse who happened to have travelled through India.

As it turned out the nurse would wash her daily chanting himself to the tapes as she eventually left this world. He told us she departed peacefully. And knowing the loving soul she was I'm sure she was well looked after and would take a favourable birth in future..

[bija]

Some more thoughts on NDE.

 

From my own experience, reflection, and reading, I would say that an NDE is an intermediate state that one enters when close to death. A very subtle level of mind state.

 

I think this is why people have such profound experiences, for when one enters this more subtle mind state, through later intuition in normal consciousness, a greater awareness of one's more subtle self may arise.

 

But saying this, it is such a profound experience that it can be closer to a God experience than previously encountered in normal awareness.

 

In my particular encounter there were subtle Vaisnava, Judaeo-Christian, and Buddhist themes. The interesting nature of some of these themes though was that they were much more revealing of the traditions involved than I had know or read in normal consciousness. Ofcourse I had entered deeper into my subtle self in this state.

 

For example there is a Tibetan Buddhist text called, "Wishes for Release from the Perilous Straits of the Intermediate State, Hero Releasing from Fright" by the First Panchen Lama. The current Dalai Lama has written a commentary on this called "Advice on Dying". Basically it teaches one, High Tantra Yoga to pass through this state, to cultivate a good re-birth. In this commentary it talks about this state at one level, of being either of three colors, white, grey, or black. And particular meanings for each color. White being a pious mind state, grey intermediatory, and black being of a mind state of hatred.

 

Interestingly all three were colors were in my experience. No other colors. Also the book talks of the position of the tunnel, for example rising at an 45 degree angle, horizontal, or downward. And this also represents position of next birth.

 

So in my opinion and spiritual understanding, it is not a direct encounter with God. But this subtle mind state needs to be penetrated for final liberation.

 

What I have found of particular interest of my encounter with this subtle state is the lasting impression of it in my consciousness. And as the years have gone by, how I have understood more of its meaning. And in the last twelve months I feel a divine guidance as such. As I have expressed, to try and develop more kindness and graciousness in my life.

 

But the experience in itself is no quick fix as one might think. Life continues on with one being dependant upon grace for spiritual growth.

 

I am hesitant to discuss the finer details of the NDE as it is quite revealing to one, with developed mind culture. And also I feel that we each need to encounter in life our own journey and growth in good time.

 

I hope this is of interest and helpul in some way. The agent of Yamaraja that I saw was most frightening but turned out to be benign. As I first saw him, I also saw my fallen self very clearly. Very revealling. This was the frightening thing. A thought of what will I become.

 

In answer to my call to the white light , "who are you?", I heard a most beautiful voice to my left which came from outside of the tunnel. As it spoke, like a sound of beautiful rushing water, with a most sweet and gentle tone, it's one word was, "Original". At that time this word entered my very being. Present in the core of me. One with me, but also outside of me and different.

 

It filled me with such a feeling of peace, that all fear of the Yamaraja agent type entity left me.

[Avinash]

 

But as memory has faded over the years with most things, this occurence is as clear in my mind as it was only yesterday.

 

Your choice. But I personally feel that you should write your experiences somewhere. Who knows? Memory can fail anytime.

[theist]

bija, that was very fortunate for you that you had this experience prior to the final exit from this body.It obviously made a deep impression on you. Thanks for a sharing a portion with us. I agree with Avinash about writing it down, It may ever remain fresh in your mind but we are also using these fallible brains to access those memories. I would think that even writing these posts about it brought it up again in a much clearer light to you as you wrote it out. A nice excercise.

 

I believe these types of things are extremely valuable in a broader cultural sense also. It is one thing to philosophically try to convince people that the body is not the self but I believe people today will actually put more faith in hearing of others experiences.

 

A solid understanding or strong belief that we are not our physical forms will help people in the transition at death and hopefully make them more thoughtful of life after bodily death.

[Guruvani]

 

There is no need to fear Yama Dharmaraj. He is a Jnani par excellence.

 

That is an offense to Yamaraja, as Yamaraja is a devotee of the Lord.

Where do you find authority to say that Yamaraja is a Jnani?

Yamaraja is one of the twelve Mahajans who know the real purpose of religion, which is NOT to attain Mukti through Jnana.

 

 

svayambhur naradah sambhuh kumarah kapilo manuh

prahlada janako bhismo balir vaiyasakir vayam

<center> </center> Brahma, Narada, Siva, the four Kumaras, Kapiladeva, Svayambhuva Manu, Prahlada, Janaka Maharaja, Bhisma, Bali Maharaja, Sukadeva Goswami and I (Yamaraja) know the real transcendental principles of religion. (Bhag. 6.3.20)

 

 

 

Yamaraja explains this in the Bhagavat Purana

 

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TEXT

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svayambhur naradah sambhuh

kumarah kapilo manuh

prahlado janako bhismo

balir vaiyasakir vayam

<!--[if !supportEmptyParas]--> <!--[endif]-->

dvadasaite vijanimo

dharmam bhagavatam bhatah

guhyam visuddham durbodham

yam jnatvamrtam asnute

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SYNONYMS

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svayambhuh--Lord Brahma; naradah--the great saint Narada; sambhuh--Lord Siva; kumarah--the four Kumaras; kapilah--Lord Kapila; manuh--Svayambhuva Manu; prahladah--Prahlada Maharaja; janakah--Janaka Maharaja; bhismah--Grandfather Bhisma; balih--Bali Maharaja; vaiyasakih--Sukadeva, the son of Vyasadeva; vayam--we; dvadasa--twelve; ete--these; vijanimah--know; dharmam--real religious principles; bhagavatam--which teach a person how to love the Supreme Personality of Godhead; bhatah--O my dear servants; guhyam--very confidential; visuddham--transcendental, not contaminated by the material modes of nature; durbodham--not easily understood; yam--which; jnatva--understanding; amrtam--eternal life; asnute--he enjoys.

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TRANSLATION

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Lord Brahma, Bhagavan Narada, Lord Siva, the four Kumaras, Lord Kapila [the son of Devahuti], Svayambhuva Manu, Prahlada Maharaja, Janaka Maharaja, Grandfather Bhisma, Bali Maharaja, Sukadeva Gosvami and I myself know the real religious principle. My dear servants, this transcendental religious principle, which is known as bhagavata-dharma, or surrender unto the Supreme Lord and love for Him, is uncontaminated by the material modes of nature. It is very confidential and difficult for ordinary human beings to understand, but if by chance one fortunately understands it, he is immediately liberated, and thus he returns home, back to Godhead.

Yamaraja tells the Yamadutas....

Srimad Bhagavatam 6.3.22

 

etavan eva loke 'smin

pumsam dharmah parah smritah

bhakti-yogo bhagavati

tan-nama-grahanadibhih

 

SYNONYMS

etavan -- this much; eva -- indeed; loke asmin -- in this material world; pumsam -- of the living entities; dharmah -- the religious principles; parah -- transcendental; smritah -- recognized; bhakti-yogah -- bhakti-yoga, or devotional service; bhagavati -- to the Supreme Personality of Godhead (not to the demigods); tat -- His; nama -- of the holy name; grahana-adibhih -- beginning with chanting.

 

 

TRANSLATION

Devotional service, beginning with the chanting of the holy name of the Lord, is the ultimate religious principle for the living entity in human society.

 

 

[Guest guest]

A Bhakta is also a Jnani. It is inclusive.

 

 

That is an offense to Yamaraja, as Yamaraja is a devotee of the Lord.

Where do you find authority to say that Yamaraja is a Jnani?

Yamaraja is one of the twelve Mahajans who know the real purpose of religion, which is NOT to attain Mukti through Jnana.

 

 

svayambhur naradah sambhuh kumarah kapilo manuh

prahlada janako bhismo balir vaiyasakir vayam

<center> </center> Brahma, Narada, Siva, the four Kumaras, Kapiladeva, Svayambhuva Manu, Prahlada, Janaka Maharaja, Bhisma, Bali Maharaja, Sukadeva Goswami and I (Yamaraja) know the real transcendental principles of religion. (Bhag. 6.3.20)

 

 

 

[ svayambhur naradah sambhuh

kumarah kapilo manuh

prahlado janako bhismo

balir vaiyasakir vayam

 

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svayambhuh--Lord Brahma; naradah--the great saint Narada; sambhuh--Lord Siva; kumarah--the four Kumaras; kapilah--Lord Kapila; manuh--Svayambhuva Manu; prahladah--Prahlada Maharaja; janakah--Janaka Maharaja; bhismah--Grandfather Bhisma; balih--Bali Maharaja; vaiyasakih--Sukadeva, the son of Vyasadeva; vayam--we; dvadasa--twelve; ete--these; vijanimah--know; dharmam--real religious principles; bhagavatam--which teach a person how to love the Supreme Personality of Godhead; bhatah--O my dear servants; guhyam--very confidential; visuddham--transcendental, not contaminated by the material modes of nature; durbodham--not easily understood; yam--which; jnatva--understanding; amrtam--eternal life; asnute--he enjoys.

TRANSLATION

Lord Brahma, Bhagavan Narada, Lord Siva, the four Kumaras, Lord Kapila [the son of Devahuti], Svayambhuva Manu, Prahlada Maharaja, Janaka Maharaja, Grandfather Bhisma, Bali Maharaja, Sukadeva Gosvami and I myself know the real religious principle. My dear servants, this transcendental religious principle, which is known as bhagavata-dharma, or surrender unto the Supreme Lord and love for Him, is uncontaminated by the material modes of nature. It is very confidential and difficult for ordinary human beings to understand, but if by chance one fortunately understands it, he is immediately liberated, and thus he returns home, back to Godhead.

 

Yamaraja tells the Yamadutas....

 

 

[Guruvani]

 

A Bhakta is also a Jnani. It is inclusive.

please cite authoritative reference to prove that point.

 

your un-substantiated statements that are not backed-up by shastric reference have no weight in proper discussion of siddhanta.

 

A Jnani does not accept the personality of Godhead as being above the impersonal Brahman.

A Jnani believes that Krishna is just a great living entity, but not the Supreme Absolute Truth.

How can a Bhakta then be a Jnani as well?

 

For a Bhakta, to attain impersonal Mukti is considered a Hellish existence away from the Lord.

Jnana is a distant vague view of reality.

A Bhakta has passed beyond Jnana, never to return.

 

Quite plainly put, a Jnani thinks that the impersonal Brahman is higher than the personality of Godhead.

It is impossible to be Jnani and Bhakta both.

 

There are some Jnanis that have some bhakti, but they think Bhakti will them attain sayujya-mukti.

But, pure Bhaktas are not Jnanis.

[Guest guest]

It is common sense. Jnana means knowledge. Are Bhaktas devoid of knowledge? No, they aren't. Therefore jnani is included in Bhakta.

 

 

please cite authoritative reference to prove that point.

 

your un-substantiated statements that are not backed-up by shastric reference have no weight in proper discussion of siddhanta.

 

A Jnani does not accept the personality of Godhead as being above the impersonal Brahman.

A Jnani believes that Krishna is just a great living entity, but not the Supreme Absolute Truth.

How can a Bhakta then be a Jnani as well?

 

For a Bhakta, to attain impersonal Mukti is considered a Hellish existence away from the Lord.

Jnana is a distant vague view of reality.

A Bhakta has passed beyond Jnana, never to return.

 

Quite plainly put, a Jnani thinks that the impersonal Brahman is higher than the personality of Godhead.

It is impossible to be Jnani and Bhakta both.

 

There are some Jnanis that have some bhakti, but they think Bhakti will them attain sayujya-mukti.

But, pure Bhaktas are not Jnanis.

[bija]

 

I would think that even writing these posts about it brought it up again in a much clearer light to you as you wrote it out. A nice excercise. quote by Theist

It bought up much in my mind. I will take Avinash's advice and write things down eventually.

 

So the question now is really what to do with the mind...I am sure it needs to be developed by deep meditation, for me, by chanting holy names and remembering form, qualities, and pastimes of the Lord. To spiritualize the mind and at least have a better birth, or who knows I really hope oneday to enter the spiritual realm. Jaiva Dharma would be the ultimate guide book for me.

 

Theist, at the time I had the NDE I had no real faith in God. I used to pray, go to temples, churches, etc...but I did not know if he was real or not.

 

My consciousness was at a stage of pure body consciousness, and I had very little realization of the mind. Basically my mind would just take me here and there as I was fully identified as this body. Fortunate that things have changed somewhat in my consciousness now.

 

I do not fear death anymore and in some way feel things will be ok next time.

 

I do feel as consciousness develops we need to spiritualize our whole self. In the conditioned state we can have very subtle mental states, awareness, and visions. etc....and these are a real phenomenon...but I would rather have vision of GaurangaKrsna everywhere...to be able to go to Sri Navadwipa Dhama and see the reality. So subtle mind states may be fun for a while....but still they are a cause of bondage....the key is to spiritualize everything whilst at the same time realizing I am not this body..I am not this mind. In fact anything without relation to Krsna is maya.

 

Oh yeah....and one more thing Theist....thanks for your open heart and for being a friend. I thought maybe I shared to much yesterday. Good to know there is some progressives out there.

[Guruvani]

 

It is common sense. Jnana means knowledge. Are Bhaktas devoid of knowledge? No, they aren't. Therefore jnani is included in Bhakta.

 

And Vijnana is realized knowledge.

Devotees have Vijnana, not Jnana.

 

Jnana is knowledge that Brahman is the underlying reality of existence.

Vijnana is knowing that Krishna is the basis of the Brahman and that Brahman is his bodily effulgence.

 

Srila Prabhupada:

 

A Kṛṣṇa conscious person has realized knowledge, by the grace of Kṛṣṇa, because he is satisfied with pure devotional service. By realized knowledge, one becomes perfect. By transcendental knowledge one can remain steady in his convictions, but by mere academic knowledge one can be easily deluded and confused by apparent contradictions

 

 

Vijñāna refers to specific knowledge of the spirit soul's constitutional position and his relationship to the Supreme Soul. It is explained thus in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam (2.9.31):jñānaḿ parama-guhyaḿ me

yad vijñāna-samanvitam

sa-rahasyaḿ tad-ańgaḿ ca

gṛhāṇa gaditaḿ mayā

"The knowledge of the self and Supreme Self is very confidential and mysterious, but such knowledge and specific realization can be understood if explained with their various aspects by the Lord Himself." Bhagavad-gītā gives us that general and specific knowledge of the self. The living entities are parts and parcels of the Lord, and therefore they are simply meant to serve the Lord. This consciousness is called Kṛṣṇa consciousness. So, from the very beginning of life one has to learn this Kṛṣṇa consciousness, and thereby one may become fully Kṛṣṇa conscious and act accordingly.

 

[Nrsinghadev]

There was a painter named Zdzislaw Beksinski, who judging by his work, seemed to have had some sort of psychic link with a hellish dimension. Here are two paintings which to me fit the descriptions of the Yamadutas. Notice the "dogs":

http://www.gnosis.art.pl/iluminatornia/sztuka_o_inspiracji/zdzislaw_beksinski/zdzislaw_beksinski_1985_4.jpg

http://www.gnosis.art.pl/iluminatornia/sztuka_o_inspiracji/zdzislaw_beksinski/zdzislaw_beksinski_1978.jpg

 

Just type in his last name in google or images and see hell.

[theist]

Creeepy. Yeah imagine the mind that can stand to paint such things. I view such images and slasher horror films as hell seeping onto Earth. All such descent of the world starts on the subtle mental platform and then gradually makes it's presence known in gross material society.