Guruvani:What is the Vani of the Guru that needs to be followed for every disciple???

[krsna]

Guruvani is the instructions of Guru to each disciple specifically or generally? Each disciple may receive different instructions especially as in the matters of preaching the mission?

 

Don't you need the the guru's mercy in order to receive the guruvani? And then more mercy indeed to carry out the guruvani?

[Beggar]

...and then more mercy to realize the internal meaning of the guruvani, so our so called preaching will become real preaching.

[Guruvani]

It depends upon who your guru is.

If you have accepted Srila Prabhupada as your siksha-guru, then I would think that if you read his books in order: Bhagavad-gita, Srimad Bhagavatam, Nectar of Devotion and Sri Caitanya Caritamrita - then all the instructions you need to practice Krishna consciousness will be available.

 

The mercy of Srila Prabhupada is in the form of his books, his temples and his devotees who all help us in our approach to Krishna consciousness.

Mercy is a practical thing. Srila Prabhupada has blessed the whole world with his books.

Take the mercy. Srila Prabhupada has distributed it liberally all over the world in a practical form.

 

Still, we need some siksha gurus to teach us how to put on tilak, how to dress like a devotee and other such practical aspects of Vaishnava practice.

 

This is the practical side we learn from associating with the society of devotees.

 

Srila Prabhupada said it is up to the individual to mold his own life in such a way as he can remember Krishna always.

 

It's takes some study of the books Srila Prabhupada to understand how to do this.

 

The one instruction to be followed by all disciples is to never forget Krishna, no matter what situation you might find yourself in.

Remembering Krishna is the first sign of love.

[Beggar]

Guruvani, there are so many points that you have made that could ingite all sorts of controversies. The reason is that much of what you say is congruent with the "rtvik" conception. The opposite idea is that we need to approach a perfect Krsna Conscious Master who is presently in physical form. Because devotees have different realizations on these points the controversy will go on forever, with no resolution, no matter how many sastric quotes either side can give. I wonder what is your or anyone's intention? Why raise these points? Is it really so important that all devotees will be like minded? In a way I'm wondering about my own intentions on so many posts. I could start quoting so many slokas and purports to put forth a counter view but quite frankly, I'm worn out from the whole thing. Besides I have a very weak attraction to the Holy Name and most of the time I'm drowning in Maya. I could cry out to a living acarya, Srila Prabhupada or Srila Sridhar Maharaja or even Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Saraswati Thakur, but I only do that when I'm suffering the reactions to my attempts at enjoying this world. Most of the time I secretly conspiring to find a drop of happiness through my senses and mind.

I am so unfortunate that I want to argue endlessly about who is a real guru, who is the best guru, do we really need a living guru etc. etc. etc.

Of course, what does it really matter when I can come on these forums (oops, fellowship) and pretend to be a senior devotee situated in transcendental knowledge. I do this because I am so puffed up and callous that I find the instructions of Sri Krsna pertaining to controlling the senses and mind to be elementary and boring. I think that I'm in the line of the Rupanugas but I am resistant to Srila Rupa Goswami's first instruction in Sri Upadeshamrta, vaco vegam, manasa krodha vegam. I think that there is some way that I can circumvent it. In this way I commit so many offense in my mind and heart that I am becoming like a lost soul and ordinary sense enjoyer of this world. This is my sorry plight.

[bija]

Why is it Beggar when we get into spiritual discussion the tendency can be to 'pontificate', as has been said? And get into criticism?

 

To be honest it is a very heavy load to carry some days. So why this tendency? Is it because we are neophyte? This tendency of the mind is not a good thing? But it seems all us humans have it.

 

It would be so nice if we could openly share the joys of life, that make the spiritual journey so special. But sometimes the air of arrogance of us religious bent types is full on. Devotees discussing together their wonder of Krsna as mentioned in the Gita, could possibly be like the talk of small children. Sweet and gentle. Not puffed up with knowledge. Maybe that is why Christ said we need to be like children to enter the kingdom of God.

 

For or against rtvik...to be honest I am not interested....but when we can get on the level that we are all in this boat together(this conditioned world)...then I think we have reached common ground. Then maybe we can start sharing, and appreciate each other. And open ourselves up to simplicity.

 

One of my petty dislikes is unenlightened fundamentalism. Maybe I have been there a thousand times over...maybe a lot of Hare Krsna's have. Puffed up with knowledge with no heart function. Please forgive my offence in saying this. It is a great stumbling block it seems. Just wish we could appreciate simplicity...if we can't get it together...what hope is there.

 

No doubt on a personal level I have much to work on....dependant upon grace.

[Guruvani]

 

Guruvani, there are so many points that you have made that could ingite all sorts of controversies. The reason is that much of what you say is congruent with the "rtvik" conception. The opposite idea is that we need to approach a perfect Krsna Conscious Master who is presently in physical form. Because devotees have different realizations on these points the controversy will go on forever, with no resolution, no matter how many sastric quotes either side can give. I wonder what is your or anyone's intention? Why raise these points? Is it really so important that all devotees will be like minded? In a way I'm wondering about my own intentions on so many posts. I could start quoting so many slokas and purports to put forth a counter view but quite frankly, I'm worn out from the whole thing. Besides I have a very weak attraction to the Holy Name and most of the time I'm drowning in Maya. I could cry out to a living acarya, Srila Prabhupada or Srila Sridhar Maharaja or even Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Saraswati Thakur, but I only do that when I'm suffering the reactions to my attempts at enjoying this world. Most of the time I secretly conspiring to find a drop of happiness through my senses and mind.

I am so unfortunate that I want to argue endlessly about who is a real guru, who is the best guru, do we really need a living guru etc. etc. etc.

Of course, what does it really matter when I can come on these forums (oops, fellowship) and pretend to be a senior devotee situated in transcendental knowledge. I do this because I am so puffed up and callous that I find the instructions of Sri Krsna pertaining to controlling the senses and mind to be elementary and boring. I think that I'm in the line of the Rupanugas but I am resistant to Srila Rupa Goswami's first instruction in Sri Upadeshamrta, vaco vegam, manasa krodha vegam. I think that there is some way that I can circumvent it. In this way I commit so many offense in my mind and heart that I am becoming like a lost soul and ordinary sense enjoyer of this world. This is my sorry plight.

 

Let's just put aside each other's personal failings here and discuss the philosophy of Krishna consciousness.

We are here to discuss Krishna consciousness, not to examine each other's private lives and disqualify siddhantic conclusions because they might be spoken by a devotee of lower standards.

 

Because we are envious, we like to try and disqualify what a person says if that person is of a lower standard, even if what he says is correct.

 

Instead of discussing philosophy, we get all up into each other's private lives and try to find something to smear in their face and put them down and disqualify them.

 

Our puny sadhana and profiling as higher devotees is not really a qualification.

Let's just discuss what Srila Prabhupada wrote in his books and not get too concerned about the private lives of each other.

 

If you can't discuss and debate the philosophy without trying to take advantage with personal attacks on devotees, then that only says that we are defending our positions with BS instead of shastric evidence.

 

I have spent probably 6 hours today studying deeply certain portions of Srila Prabhupada's books.

Does that count for anything?

 

There are many days I spend at least 6 or eight hours studying over and over important verses that I want to understand deeply.

 

I might not do it all, but I have a deep interest in Krishna consciousness.

 

The mercy of Gaura-Nitai extends even to the fallen.

 

What I am doing is setting here reading Srila Prabhupada' books online, then popping in and out of the forum for discussion.

I have been setting here all evening studying the books of Srila Prabhupada.

 

I have spent probably 3 hours on one chapter of CC.

 

I don't just read Srila Prabhupada's books........

I meditate on them.

[Beggar]

 

If you can't discuss and debate the philosophy without trying to take advantage with personal attacks on devotees, then that only says that we are defending our positions with BS instead of shastric evidence.

I thought that I was making a personal attack on my mind. There I go thinking again.

 

The mercy of Gaura-Nitai extends even to the fallen.

 

Our only hope.

[Guruvani]

 

Guruvani, there are so many points that you have made that could ingite all sorts of controversies. The reason is that much of what you say is congruent with the "rtvik" conception.

 

Look, ISKCON should either promote the ritvik system or promote a genuine diksha guru parampara instead of an official guru parampara that is nothing but formal ceremony.

 

The diksha guru is the person who first initiates a devotee with the Maha-mantra.

In most cases, that would not be the official GBC stamped guru.

 

I'm all for a true diksha guru system, but not the fake, formal, superficial, official guru system that the GBC supports.

 

If we are going to follow a formal, official guru system, then a ritvik system is probably better than the phoney diksha guru club in ISKCON today.

 

Let's either recognize the true diksha gurus who are giving the Maha-mantra and relevant instructions to new devotees, or follow the ritvik system which is a better formal system than the falldown specialists of ISKCON.

 

I don't think the Swami setting on the big seat should get credit for making devotees who were actually made by the rank-and-fle preachers of ISKCON.

[Beggar]

 

 

Triage

BY: JAGABANDHU DASA (The

Sampradaya Sun)

 

 

Oct 29, FORT WHITE, FLORIDA (SUN) —

I see dead people. And dying people. Suffering and sad people. Everywhere. Others are disposed to pre-occupy the mind with considerations of ecclesiastical authority and who shall wield such absolute might. And who will yield to It. Meanwhile, countless suffering souls meet with unfortunate ends without having the Fortunate Confluence of Mahaprabhu's Munificent Influence and Supremely Auspicious Association with the Holy Sound Vibration of Sri Hari.

 

May we be reminded that Srila Saraswati Thakur declared that the only thing lacking in the world was Hari-katha or real Krishna Consciousness.

 

Mahaprabhu tells us that we must wake up! And then wake others up! Serve the high souls and then I will develop a real taste for Harinam. I will then become consumed by helping other jivas by giving them this taste for Sri Nam Prabhu. This is real Krishna Consciousness. And It's for all souls. Not just some fortunate few (who grow fewer by the day.)

 

Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakur sings that the Holy Name is not just for a certain class of people, but rather for all people, for all time. There is nothing else. If I don't to this particular conviction, my actual inner progress will be slow and uncertain.

 

May we consider Srila Saraswati Thakur's admonitions about over-reliance on administrative and institutional legislative solutions in the apparently feeble ongoing attempts to govern, check or control the Divine Flow of Mahaprabhu's Mission of Mercy.

 

Srila A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada perfectly instructs all souls for all time that it is not a question of my guru, or your guru or anyone else's guru. Sri Guru is not a sectarian consideration but rather one of universal application. There is only one guru, manifest in an infinity of forms for the intrinsic eternal benefit of all jivas. Sri Guru is not constrained by anything but the Divine Will. And by the Supreme Lord's Grace, Sri Guru may become manifest to any soul, anywhere, anytime.

 

From the Scriptures we can know that based on real inner hankering for actual deeper meaning and the subsequent genuinely inquisitive spirit of the jiva, God provides the facility of a real teacher, Sri Guru. Asking progressively pertinent questions of Sri Guru is a rare moment for the subjective evolution of the jiva's consciousness. Really listening to the answers is rarer still.

 

At first, we were seekers of Truth. And so by God's Grace, we met Sri Guru. May we again become such earnest seekers and Sri Guru will again manifest, by God's Grace.

 

No doubt, Sri Guru had disagreements with his spiritual siblings. May we remember that he emphasized that it was only over varying methods of mixing and spreading Krishna Consciousness. He perfectly demonstrated as the Perfect Teacher for all souls for all time, that rather than wasting time arguing the various points of ecclesiastical administrative authority, he felt the great need to fulfill the two-fold obligation of both serving His Divine Master and reaching out to the countless suffering souls, forgetful of their own intrinsic Divine essence. He risked everything to do so. His real followers will naturally follow suit.

 

From Mahabharata we can know that the only news is that all are rushing into the jaws of Death. Again and again. The real Vaishnavas by dint of real inner awakenment, are perpetually prepared to continually risk everything to create a positive revolution in the consciousness of the countless souls suffering in this dire predicament. Can you hear their screams? Or shall we merely harden our hearts in a spiritually sterile vault impervious to anything but selfish concerns, fraught with oblivious disdain to the great pain of the suffering jivas?

 

Please consider that when the Hare Krishna movement became the Hare Krishna "religion", the real spiritual dynamism necessary for continued forward motion was stopped and it became a cult (defined by thoughtlessness, as are all "cults"), mired in bureaucratic boondoggles and internecine administrative power struggles, much to the great loss of the world. Alas.

 

Again. Sri Guru said this. And Sri Guru said that. What did He mean?

 

Humbly,

 

Jagabandhu Das

 

[Shakti-Fan]

 

Look, ISKCON should either promote the ritvik system or promote a genuine diksha guru parampara instead of an official guru parampara that is nothing but formal ceremony...

 

If we are going to follow a formal, official guru system, then a ritvik system is probably better than the phoney diksha guru club in ISKCON today.

 

 

Srila Sridhar Maharaja (Conversation 1982)

Krishna consciousness is the cause of Krishna consciousness.

And we have to get help from the sadhu who has got Krishna

Consciousness within them. Just as, from one candle another candle

may be lit. A candle cannot produce light from within, but it is to be

lit from another candle – it is something like that. We are to awaken

our buried Krishna consciousness, which is covered by ‘anyabhilasa-

karmma-jnana’ (fruit-seeking, selfish work, the result of the attempt

to satisfy material desires, both fleeting and ‘organized’; and the

search for philosophical/spiritual knowledge, devoid or independent of

devotional service.); so, that light, that association, will come to help

the sleeping Krishna Consciousness within us, and our consciousness

will arise from it’s sleep and show itself, as it is. So, the method is

that: to take sadhu-sangha – krsna-bhakti janma-mula, haya sadhu-

sangha – association with the sadhu, devotee of Krishna, is the root-

cause of Krishna consciousness.