Opinion against Astrology by prominent Astropysicist - Jayant Narlikar 24/11 p2

November 25, 2006

u can count on any no of hands this has beendone and can be done continously Dr. BV RAMAN, KN RAO have done a lot on this and RAMAN founded the ICAS which has set up chapeters all over Indianand there is a lot of research going on so too has Bharituya Vidya Bhavan too and many more. it is that u need to oepn a windo tosee the world

G B Prashant Kumar

Pl give personal data with some life events and dates, jobs, marriage, family, kids.

Services of this astrologer in the group are free, personal mail and CHAT consultations ARE CHARGEABLE!

Bharat Hindu Astrology <hinduastrology >

vedic astrology; sohamsa;

Saturday, November 25, 2006 5:17:14 PM

Re: [vedic astrology] Opinion against Astrology by prominent Astropysicist - Jayant Narlikar

Namaste Sri Hemant

I call it scientific superstition!

I agree to your concerns but instead of warring with them, we should make

efforts to put the "House of Astrology" in order.

1.By recording and categorizing research

2.By bringing and cataloging all ancient texts and modern books under one

roof.

3.By going to hospitals, schools, colleges, work places, etc to collect data

of the diseased and cataloging this birth data as per disease, work areas,

study interests, sports abilities, etc.

4. By making this information freely accessible by all astrologers.

5. By tying up with corporates for funding research in human behavior for

assessment and evaluation of work ethics and success in career.

6. By rewarding and recognizing astrologers and protecting their copyrighted

works.

Imagine a research which would have:

1. Methods and principles used.

2. References given of those principles in ancient texts

3. Reference of their use by fellow astrologers

4. Test results on 200 charts in proper tabulated form.

5. Dasha employed... citing reasons for choice of dasha

6. and so on and so forth.

7. Limitations of such a method

8. Proper conclusion on why this method worked or failed.

9. Possible Avenues of further research.

How many hands do I see up now?

Thanks and Regards

Bharat

On 11/25/06, Agnyeya <agnyeya > wrote:

>

> Dear Bharatji,

>

> While I am personally fine with people who do not understand or accept

> astrology, it pains me that one such as Mr. Narlikar, would write an article

> on the same (without proper investigation, I am sure, and without any

> supporting facts as is evident in the article.)

> The bigger problem being that such an individual's opinions are taken

> seriously and at a time when our past divine knowledge is not being

> propagated, discounting it so frivolously is hurting the human race et al.

> And therein lie my concerns.

>

> Humble Regards,

> Hemant Desai

>

> Bharat Hindu Astrology <hinduastrology@ gmail.com<hinduastrology% 40gmail.com> >

> wrote:

> Namaste Sri Hemant

>

> If one is taught to look out, one cannot look within. If one is to accept

> the waking world to be the only reality, then, 60% of our lives of

> dreaming,

> deep sleeping and day dreaming is not accounted for. If one is foolish not

> to see the whole picture and arrogant enough to misreport it, then, we

> should understand the level of a person's thinking. Why would you even

> want

> such a person to accept Astrology?

>

> Astrology is a science and beyond. To measure it terms of scientific-ness,

> would be like measuring an ocean using buckets. Such foolishness abounds

> in

> this world. Let it abound.

>

> Scientists are themselves groping in darkness. Ask them a basic question -

> "Who are you?" and watch them going mad trying to explain it.

>

> Thanks and Regards

> Bharat

>

> On 11/24/06, Agnyeya <agnyeya <agnyeya%40. com>> wrote:

> >

> > Dear All,

> >

> > Recently an article appeared in the Times of India, Mumbai edition on

> the

> > 17th Nov 2006, providing URL for the online version here (

> > http://timesofindia .indiatimes. com/articleshow/ 462734.cms) which goes on

> > to state that Astrology is irrelevant.

> > While I have come across this opinion by people before, it pains me a

> lot

> > to see when a prominent astrophyicist (a scientest at that), Jayant

> > Narlikar, has chosen to close his mind to the possibilty of Astrology,

> at a

> > time when the fundamentals of Astrology are Astronomy and Mathematics.

> >

> > Humble Regards,

> > Hemant Desai

> >

> > Agnyeya@ Planet Earth

> >

> > ------------ --------- --------- ---

> > Find out what India is talking about on - Answers India

> > Send FREE SMS to your friend's mobile from Messenger Version 8.

> Get

> > it NOW

> >

November 25, 2006

Namaskaar Sri Prashant

Very easy to say it has been done. Yes, by individuals it has been. But not

by collective astrology fraternity in a form an international effort.

Think again on the points given and show me if I can get archives of all

research since 1900 properly catalogued, etc.

Thanks and Regards

Bharat

On 11/25/06, Me Shubha Vela <pkgoteti > wrote:

>

> u can count on any no of hands this has beendone and can be done

> continously Dr. BV RAMAN, KN RAO have done a lot on this and RAMAN founded

> the ICAS which has set up chapeters all over Indianand there is a lot of

> research going on so too has Bharituya Vidya Bhavan too and many more. it is

> that u need to oepn a windo tosee the world

>

> G B Prashant Kumar

>

> Pl give personal data with some life events and dates, jobs, marriage,

> family, kids.

> Services of this astrologer in the group are free, personal mail and CHAT

> consultations ARE CHARGEABLE!

>

> Bharat Hindu Astrology <hinduastrology <hinduastrology%40gmail.com>

> >

> vedic astrology <vedic astrology%40>;

> sohamsa <sohamsa%40>;

> <%40>

> Saturday, November 25, 2006 5:17:14 PM

> Re: [vedic astrology] Opinion against Astrology by prominent

> Astropysicist - Jayant Narlikar

>

> Namaste Sri Hemant

>

> I call it scientific superstition!

>

> I agree to your concerns but instead of warring with them, we should make

> efforts to put the "House of Astrology" in order.

>

> 1.By recording and categorizing research

> 2.By bringing and cataloging all ancient texts and modern books under one

> roof.

> 3.By going to hospitals, schools, colleges, work places, etc to collect

> data

> of the diseased and cataloging this birth data as per disease, work areas,

> study interests, sports abilities, etc.

> 4. By making this information freely accessible by all astrologers.

> 5. By tying up with corporates for funding research in human behavior for

> assessment and evaluation of work ethics and success in career.

> 6. By rewarding and recognizing astrologers and protecting their

> copyrighted

> works.

>

> Imagine a research which would have:

> 1. Methods and principles used.

> 2. References given of those principles in ancient texts

> 3. Reference of their use by fellow astrologers

> 4. Test results on 200 charts in proper tabulated form.

> 5. Dasha employed... citing reasons for choice of dasha

> 6. and so on and so forth.

> 7. Limitations of such a method

> 8. Proper conclusion on why this method worked or failed.

> 9. Possible Avenues of further research.

>

> How many hands do I see up now?

>

> Thanks and Regards

> Bharat

>

> On 11/25/06, Agnyeya <agnyeya > wrote:

> >

> > Dear Bharatji,

> >

> > While I am personally fine with people who do not understand or accept

> > astrology, it pains me that one such as Mr. Narlikar, would write an

> article

> > on the same (without proper investigation, I am sure, and without any

> > supporting facts as is evident in the article.)

> > The bigger problem being that such an individual's opinions are taken

> > seriously and at a time when our past divine knowledge is not being

> > propagated, discounting it so frivolously is hurting the human race et

> al.

> > And therein lie my concerns.

> >

> > Humble Regards,

> > Hemant Desai

> >

> > Bharat Hindu Astrology <hinduastrology@ gmail.com<hinduastrology%

> 40gmail.com> >

> > wrote:

> > Namaste Sri Hemant

> >

> > If one is taught to look out, one cannot look within. If one is to

> accept

> > the waking world to be the only reality, then, 60% of our lives of

> > dreaming,

> > deep sleeping and day dreaming is not accounted for. If one is foolish

> not

> > to see the whole picture and arrogant enough to misreport it, then, we

> > should understand the level of a person's thinking. Why would you even

> > want

> > such a person to accept Astrology?

> >

> > Astrology is a science and beyond. To measure it terms of

> scientific-ness,

> > would be like measuring an ocean using buckets. Such foolishness abounds

> > in

> > this world. Let it abound.

> >

> > Scientists are themselves groping in darkness. Ask them a basic question

> -

> > "Who are you?" and watch them going mad trying to explain it.

> >

> > Thanks and Regards

> > Bharat

> >

> > On 11/24/06, Agnyeya <agnyeya <agnyeya%40. com>> wrote:

> > >

> > > Dear All,

> > >

> > > Recently an article appeared in the Times of India, Mumbai edition on

> > the

> > > 17th Nov 2006, providing URL for the online version here (

> > > http://timesofindia .indiatimes. com/articleshow/ 462734.cms) which

> goes on

> > > to state that Astrology is irrelevant.

> > > While I have come across this opinion by people before, it pains me a

> > lot

> > > to see when a prominent astrophyicist (a scientest at that), Jayant

> > > Narlikar, has chosen to close his mind to the possibilty of Astrology,

> > at a

> > > time when the fundamentals of Astrology are Astronomy and Mathematics.

> > >

> > > Humble Regards,

> > > Hemant Desai

> > >

> > > Agnyeya@ Planet Earth

> > >

> > > ------------ --------- --------- ---

> > > Find out what India is talking about on - Answers India

> > > Send FREE SMS to your friend's mobile from Messenger Version 8.

> > Get

> > > it NOW

> > >

November 25, 2006

Bharat ji,

You raise and list some very good pointers which will raise the

standard of astrology research. To their credit, I must say that

western astrologers have generally been more methodical in conducting

and documenting their researches.

I think the reason is obvious. Most of these western astro-

researchers came from backgrounds that included psychology and

teaching. They came to it with proper training, background and

experience in research methodology. I wish I could say the same for

many of the jyotishis. We see evidence of something as simple as

sampling bias in many of the tests and researches.

Please do not misunderstand me. I am not being critical of jyotishi

researchers. Most of us are working individually (those that are even

interested in research) with hardly enough resources to do what we

are doing and quite a few of us are not even full time astrologers. A

collaborative approach as you have suggested is a good answer and

then if external support and funding is made available then the cart

will really roll. The few institutions that start or started in the

past very quickly become afflicted by politics and territoriality --

such being human nature. Generally, when the primary founder passes

on or becomes retired it becomes very apparent that good succession

planning had not been paid attention to.

Regarding databases -- there are so many collections floating around:

Rodden, Taeger, Steinberg, etc and there are personal collections

such as Shri KN Rao mentioned in his books or messages. He had

personally collected thousands of data each with several events and

other traits. Imagine how valuable it would be if all these thousands

of charts could be combined into one Super-database! But that would

never happen until the database owners/custodians want it to happen

and talk to the other custodians!

Until then, we can do our best and your guidelines given earlier in

this thread should be placed by each jyotishi researcher next to his

or her computer.

RR

vedic astrology, "Bharat Hindu Astrology"

<hinduastrology wrote:

>

> Namaskaar Sri Prashant

>

> Very easy to say it has been done. Yes, by individuals it has been.

But not

> by collective astrology fraternity in a form an international

effort.

>

> Think again on the points given and show me if I can get archives

of all

> research since 1900 properly catalogued, etc.

>

> Thanks and Regards

> Bharat

>

> On 11/25/06, Me Shubha Vela <pkgoteti wrote:

> >

> > u can count on any no of hands this has beendone and can be done

> > continously Dr. BV RAMAN, KN RAO have done a lot on this and

RAMAN founded

> > the ICAS which has set up chapeters all over Indianand there is a

lot of

> > research going on so too has Bharituya Vidya Bhavan too and many

more. it is

> > that u need to oepn a windo tosee the world

> >

> > G B Prashant Kumar

> >

> > Pl give personal data with some life events and dates, jobs,

marriage,

> > family, kids.

> > Services of this astrologer in the group are free, personal mail

and CHAT

> > consultations ARE CHARGEABLE!

> >

> > Bharat Hindu Astrology <hinduastrology<hinduastrology%

40gmail.com>

> > >

> > vedic astrology <vedic astrology%

40>;

> > sohamsa <sohamsa%40>;

> > <%40>

> > Saturday, November 25, 2006 5:17:14 PM

> > Re: [vedic astrology] Opinion against Astrology by

prominent

> > Astropysicist - Jayant Narlikar

> >

> > Namaste Sri Hemant

> >

> > I call it scientific superstition!

> >

> > I agree to your concerns but instead of warring with them, we

should make

> > efforts to put the "House of Astrology" in order.

> >

> > 1.By recording and categorizing research

> > 2.By bringing and cataloging all ancient texts and modern books

under one

> > roof.

> > 3.By going to hospitals, schools, colleges, work places, etc to

collect

> > data

> > of the diseased and cataloging this birth data as per disease,

work areas,

> > study interests, sports abilities, etc.

> > 4. By making this information freely accessible by all

astrologers.

> > 5. By tying up with corporates for funding research in human

behavior for

> > assessment and evaluation of work ethics and success in career.

> > 6. By rewarding and recognizing astrologers and protecting their

> > copyrighted

> > works.

> >

> > Imagine a research which would have:

> > 1. Methods and principles used.

> > 2. References given of those principles in ancient texts

> > 3. Reference of their use by fellow astrologers

> > 4. Test results on 200 charts in proper tabulated form.

> > 5. Dasha employed... citing reasons for choice of dasha

> > 6. and so on and so forth.

> > 7. Limitations of such a method

> > 8. Proper conclusion on why this method worked or failed.

> > 9. Possible Avenues of further research.

> >

> > How many hands do I see up now?

> >

> > Thanks and Regards

> > Bharat

> >

> > On 11/25/06, Agnyeya <agnyeya > wrote:

> > >

> > > Dear Bharatji,

> > >

> > > While I am personally fine with people who do not understand or

accept

> > > astrology, it pains me that one such as Mr. Narlikar, would

write an

> > article

> > > on the same (without proper investigation, I am sure, and

without any

> > > supporting facts as is evident in the article.)

> > > The bigger problem being that such an individual's opinions are

taken

> > > seriously and at a time when our past divine knowledge is not

being

> > > propagated, discounting it so frivolously is hurting the human

race et

> > al.

> > > And therein lie my concerns.

> > >

> > > Humble Regards,

> > > Hemant Desai

> > >

> > > Bharat Hindu Astrology <hinduastrology@

gmail.com<hinduastrology%

> > 40gmail.com> >

> > > wrote:

> > > Namaste Sri Hemant

> > >

> > > If one is taught to look out, one cannot look within. If one is

to

> > accept

> > > the waking world to be the only reality, then, 60% of our lives

of

> > > dreaming,

> > > deep sleeping and day dreaming is not accounted for. If one is

foolish

> > not

> > > to see the whole picture and arrogant enough to misreport it,

then, we

> > > should understand the level of a person's thinking. Why would

you even

> > > want

> > > such a person to accept Astrology?

> > >

> > > Astrology is a science and beyond. To measure it terms of

> > scientific-ness,

> > > would be like measuring an ocean using buckets. Such

foolishness abounds

> > > in

> > > this world. Let it abound.

> > >

> > > Scientists are themselves groping in darkness. Ask them a basic

question

> > -

> > > "Who are you?" and watch them going mad trying to explain it.

> > >

> > > Thanks and Regards

> > > Bharat

> > >

> > > On 11/24/06, Agnyeya <agnyeya <agnyeya%40.

com>> wrote:

> > > >

> > > > Dear All,

> > > >

> > > > Recently an article appeared in the Times of India, Mumbai

edition on

> > > the

> > > > 17th Nov 2006, providing URL for the online version here (

> > > > http://timesofindia .indiatimes. com/articleshow/ 462734.cms)

which

> > goes on

> > > > to state that Astrology is irrelevant.

> > > > While I have come across this opinion by people before, it

pains me a

> > > lot

> > > > to see when a prominent astrophyicist (a scientest at that),

Jayant

> > > > Narlikar, has chosen to close his mind to the possibilty of

Astrology,

> > > at a

> > > > time when the fundamentals of Astrology are Astronomy and

Mathematics.

> > > >

> > > > Humble Regards,

> > > > Hemant Desai

> > > >

> > > > Agnyeya@ Planet Earth

> > > >

> > > > ------------ --------- --------- ---

> > > > Find out what India is talking about on - Answers India

> > > > Send FREE SMS to your friend's mobile from Messenger

Version 8.

> > > Get

> > > > it NOW

> > > >

November 25, 2006

Namaste Sri Rohiniji

Please call me Bharat only. I am much younger to you.

This is just a vision I shared, like I keep sharing other things. I applaud

individuals and organizations who have tried to do this. Maybe one of us

will rise to the occasion and start something that would make it

"International Library and Research Center of Vedic/Hindu Astrology".

Imagine the possibilities of collective learning. Imagine one day, a Vedic

Astrologer who only specializes in predicting and giving remedial measures

for eye problems of a certain kind - Like, Vedic Astrologer -

Opthalmology(Retina).

I am letting my brain run wild. I wonder if I would care to follow it.

I thank you for your kind remarks and I guess it is perfectly fine to be

self critical.

Thanks and Regards

Bharat

On 11/26/06, Rohiniranjan <rohini_ranjan (AT) hotmail (DOT) com> wrote:

>

> Bharat ji,

>

> You raise and list some very good pointers which will raise the

> standard of astrology research. To their credit, I must say that

> western astrologers have generally been more methodical in conducting

> and documenting their researches.

>

> I think the reason is obvious. Most of these western astro-

> researchers came from backgrounds that included psychology and

> teaching. They came to it with proper training, background and

> experience in research methodology. I wish I could say the same for

> many of the jyotishis. We see evidence of something as simple as

> sampling bias in many of the tests and researches.

>

> Please do not misunderstand me. I am not being critical of jyotishi

> researchers. Most of us are working individually (those that are even

> interested in research) with hardly enough resources to do what we

> are doing and quite a few of us are not even full time astrologers. A

> collaborative approach as you have suggested is a good answer and

> then if external support and funding is made available then the cart

> will really roll. The few institutions that start or started in the

> past very quickly become afflicted by politics and territoriality --

> such being human nature. Generally, when the primary founder passes

> on or becomes retired it becomes very apparent that good succession

> planning had not been paid attention to.

>

> Regarding databases -- there are so many collections floating around:

> Rodden, Taeger, Steinberg, etc and there are personal collections

> such as Shri KN Rao mentioned in his books or messages. He had

> personally collected thousands of data each with several events and

> other traits. Imagine how valuable it would be if all these thousands

> of charts could be combined into one Super-database! But that would

> never happen until the database owners/custodians want it to happen

> and talk to the other custodians!

>

> Until then, we can do our best and your guidelines given earlier in

> this thread should be placed by each jyotishi researcher next to his

> or her computer.

>

> RR

>

> vedic astrology <vedic astrology%40>,

> "Bharat Hindu Astrology"

> <hinduastrology wrote:

> >

> > Namaskaar Sri Prashant

> >

> > Very easy to say it has been done. Yes, by individuals it has been.

> But not

> > by collective astrology fraternity in a form an international

> effort.

> >

> > Think again on the points given and show me if I can get archives

> of all

> > research since 1900 properly catalogued, etc.

> >

> > Thanks and Regards

> > Bharat

> >

> > On 11/25/06, Me Shubha Vela <pkgoteti wrote:

> > >

> > > u can count on any no of hands this has beendone and can be done

> > > continously Dr. BV RAMAN, KN RAO have done a lot on this and

> RAMAN founded

> > > the ICAS which has set up chapeters all over Indianand there is a

> lot of

> > > research going on so too has Bharituya Vidya Bhavan too and many

> more. it is

> > > that u need to oepn a windo tosee the world

> > >

> > > G B Prashant Kumar

> > >

> > > Pl give personal data with some life events and dates, jobs,

> marriage,

> > > family, kids.

> > > Services of this astrologer in the group are free, personal mail

> and CHAT

> > > consultations ARE CHARGEABLE!

> > >

> > > Bharat Hindu Astrology <hinduastrology<hinduastrology%

> 40gmail.com>

> > > >

> > > vedic astrology<vedic astrology%40><vedic astrology%

> 40>;

> > > sohamsa <sohamsa%40><sohamsa%40gro

> ups.com>;

> > > <%40><%40>

> > > Saturday, November 25, 2006 5:17:14 PM

> > > Re: [vedic astrology] Opinion against Astrology by

> prominent

> > > Astropysicist - Jayant Narlikar

> > >

> > > Namaste Sri Hemant

> > >

> > > I call it scientific superstition!

> > >

> > > I agree to your concerns but instead of warring with them, we

> should make

> > > efforts to put the "House of Astrology" in order.

> > >

> > > 1.By recording and categorizing research

> > > 2.By bringing and cataloging all ancient texts and modern books

> under one

> > > roof.

> > > 3.By going to hospitals, schools, colleges, work places, etc to

> collect

> > > data

> > > of the diseased and cataloging this birth data as per disease,

> work areas,

> > > study interests, sports abilities, etc.

> > > 4. By making this information freely accessible by all

> astrologers.

> > > 5. By tying up with corporates for funding research in human

> behavior for

> > > assessment and evaluation of work ethics and success in career.

> > > 6. By rewarding and recognizing astrologers and protecting their

> > > copyrighted

> > > works.

> > >

> > > Imagine a research which would have:

> > > 1. Methods and principles used.

> > > 2. References given of those principles in ancient texts

> > > 3. Reference of their use by fellow astrologers

> > > 4. Test results on 200 charts in proper tabulated form.

> > > 5. Dasha employed... citing reasons for choice of dasha

> > > 6. and so on and so forth.

> > > 7. Limitations of such a method

> > > 8. Proper conclusion on why this method worked or failed.

> > > 9. Possible Avenues of further research.

> > >

> > > How many hands do I see up now?

> > >

> > > Thanks and Regards

> > > Bharat

> > >

> > > On 11/25/06, Agnyeya <agnyeya > wrote:

> > > >

> > > > Dear Bharatji,

> > > >

> > > > While I am personally fine with people who do not understand or

> accept

> > > > astrology, it pains me that one such as Mr. Narlikar, would

> write an

> > > article

> > > > on the same (without proper investigation, I am sure, and

> without any

> > > > supporting facts as is evident in the article.)

> > > > The bigger problem being that such an individual's opinions are

> taken

> > > > seriously and at a time when our past divine knowledge is not

> being

> > > > propagated, discounting it so frivolously is hurting the human

> race et

> > > al.

> > > > And therein lie my concerns.

> > > >

> > > > Humble Regards,

> > > > Hemant Desai

> > > >

> > > > Bharat Hindu Astrology <hinduastrology@

> gmail.com<hinduastrology%

> > > 40gmail.com> >

> > > > wrote:

> > > > Namaste Sri Hemant

> > > >

> > > > If one is taught to look out, one cannot look within. If one is

> to

> > > accept

> > > > the waking world to be the only reality, then, 60% of our lives

> of

> > > > dreaming,

> > > > deep sleeping and day dreaming is not accounted for. If one is

> foolish

> > > not

> > > > to see the whole picture and arrogant enough to misreport it,

> then, we

> > > > should understand the level of a person's thinking. Why would

> you even

> > > > want

> > > > such a person to accept Astrology?

> > > >

> > > > Astrology is a science and beyond. To measure it terms of

> > > scientific-ness,

> > > > would be like measuring an ocean using buckets. Such

> foolishness abounds

> > > > in

> > > > this world. Let it abound.

> > > >

> > > > Scientists are themselves groping in darkness. Ask them a basic

> question

> > > -

> > > > "Who are you?" and watch them going mad trying to explain it.

> > > >

> > > > Thanks and Regards

> > > > Bharat

> > > >

> > > > On 11/24/06, Agnyeya <agnyeya <agnyeya%40.

> com>> wrote:

> > > > >

> > > > > Dear All,

> > > > >

> > > > > Recently an article appeared in the Times of India, Mumbai

> edition on

> > > > the

> > > > > 17th Nov 2006, providing URL for the online version here (

> > > > > http://timesofindia .indiatimes. com/articleshow/ 462734.cms)

> which

> > > goes on

> > > > > to state that Astrology is irrelevant.

> > > > > While I have come across this opinion by people before, it

> pains me a

> > > > lot

> > > > > to see when a prominent astrophyicist (a scientest at that),

> Jayant

> > > > > Narlikar, has chosen to close his mind to the possibilty of

> Astrology,

> > > > at a

> > > > > time when the fundamentals of Astrology are Astronomy and

> Mathematics.

> > > > >

> > > > > Humble Regards,

> > > > > Hemant Desai

> > > > >

> > > > > Agnyeya@ Planet Earth

> > > > >

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November 25, 2006

Om Shri Gurave Namah!

Dear Rohini Ranjan jee, Bharat jee,and other members, Namaskar!

This is indeed a very good project in right direction, as far as Jyotish is concerned, in the past also the majority of the scientific community believed that vedic astrology is a form of pseudoscience and felt that it had no academic standing of any worth.

"The introduction of Vedic astrology as a 'scientific discipline' to be pursued as a subject of study in universities in India, was severely criticized by many scientists

A statement signed by many eminent Indian scientists read, "We the members of the Indian scientific community feel that the proposal by the UGC to introduce Vedic Astrology (Jyotir Vigyan) and Vastushastra in Indian universities is a giant leap backwards, undermining whatever scientific credibility our country may have so far achieved. We request the UGC to abandon this ill judged course of action."

Romila Thapar, the eminent historian claimed that, "to call astrology 'scientific knowledge' and to say that this 'important science needs to be exported to the world' is to make fun of scientific knowledge, for, however important astrology may claim to be, its fundamentals are not in conformity with scientific knowledge".

These kind of objections will continue to be raised, when ever we( Including me) try to give Jyotish some kind of scientific standing, and as I am a scientist myself in chemistry, and I have been involved in research and development of pharmaceuticals for almost 15 years now( In India and canada) I feel that this objection is not with out a cause or some kind of prejudice but some times it is a simple political policy, a real scientist (not a political one) wants everything with empirical proofs, and when we take astrology this is almost impossible to prove it empirically with present available methods, so we need to create methods first.

But then again there is psychology: A scientific study of human mind, this is approved everywhere and is in application by many doctors with out any empirical proofs etc, believe me, there are so many theories, by sigmund freud, Carl jung ( Started Astropsychology) or many others, I do, not think they were checked or validated for their authenticity, but are being used or applied in society, and money is being earned out of it, the reason for its propogation, even though it does not have much scientific proof is, psychology is a very good tool in the hands of politicians and other power mongers, any one standing against them are pushed in to this area called psychotherapy etc. but jyotish can not be used in such a way, Jyotish is a faith, it is a personal experience, it is unique, it is spiritual, it is something more than just chemical and biological,something devine, it is vast, it can not be defined with few available equations, equations need to be devised, because

never there was any need for such an endeavour.

Let me add few more lines, few years back there was a talk of IQ ( Intelligence Quotient), everywhere( Always it starts in west first, then scientists in India catch up), IQ become a routine, then came EQ, again from west, then people started finding out their EQ's( Emotional quotient) , there were so many scientists talking about it, I knew since I was a regular visiter to these institutions, and now it is SQ, ( Spiritual quotient), again it is from west, but this time they are pointing towards east, because, SQ has been with us for a long long time, not as a term, but as a practise, but scientists in india will wait for the green flag from the west, then they will talk about it very rhetorically as if it is something very new and discovered by them. I hope you are getting where I am going, we in india ( including all the great scientists) are so used to this behaviour or attitude that, even if India is leading in research in superconductivity, we wait for the west to

catch up and tell us what to do next, so please do not blame the scientists for there observations about astrology and also please do not wait for their approval, because they in turn will be waiting for approval from some western scientist. :-)

In case of cancer research, all the scientist in the west are taking U turns now, I hope our Indian Scientist will also do so, because they have reached dead ends, and now they are formulating food or nutrient based therapies for cancer and also they claim it is working. so my dear scientist in India, working in this field are they aware that nutirient based therapies were there in every homes in India, my grandmother was an expert, but our scientists are busy running after some western scientific journal to get some publishing, so that they can get some promotion. All this is a viscious cycle, in india and in west also.

One good example I would like to give is about a french professor, I am sorry I forgot his name, I read his book few years back, his job in france was to teach people that Astrology was superstition etc.he wanted to prove that all members of a elite medical association in france have different astrological configurations, to prove it, he took charts of all the member doctors of a top medical association in France, he tabulated, year of birth, month of birth, day of birth, he did not find anything but when he tabulated, time of birth, to his astonishment he found that in almost all the charts of member doctors, Mars and saturn was in certain combination, he repeated this with sports persons in Germany, US, and he later called it as Mars effect, which makes a person a exemplary sportsman or women etc. and after this experience he started teaching astrology as a science.:-)

This is a personal experience, unless this will happen, it is difficult for even a non scientific person to accept astrology as a science, leave alone a scientist. I think there is a kind of fear in the hearts of many scientists and astrologers, scientist: because they do not want to be linked with something which is superstitious, they are unaware that there are more astro based books and authors in west then in India, my colleagues in canada were very much like our scientists in India, but slowly I found out everyone had a confidential brush with astrology, palmistry, or Tarot, but they did not want to come in to open because society has not yet recognised astrology as a respectable scientific descipline.

Politics is the basis of anything that happens in this modern world, it is not important if it is scientifically worth or not, so please do not worry about our misdirected scientists and policy makers, start this project as a independent effort, prove it that it is infact a scientific knowledge, but please do it with utmost devotion, safeguard the decorum of jyotish as prescribed by our saints Paracara etc., points raised by Bharat jee are good, then see the same scientist will be running around with a emerald on his finger. I want to see this happening.:-)

We should worry about astrologers more than scientists, if you have proof, it is very easy to convince a scientist, but to convince a astrologer, my goodness, how are you going to do this?

I raised few issues regarding astrology in some forums, my quest was for truth and some scientific understanding, but I was rudely told by many astrologers in various forums : quote

" Why worry about how to grow bananas or peanuts, you should just eat them, if this is the argument astrologers are putting forward, I am afraid, we will have more people standing against us then with us.

Astrologers fear is loss of their credibilities and income, if any, if such an endeavour is taken up, so they want everything to remain under wraps, so just eat what you get, why do you ask questions?

I am chemist but I understand Intution, I understand how a gemstone works, I am a palmist, I understand Jyotish, I feel God's presence everywhere, but how do I prove to anybody empirically and why should I. I think God wants to remain anonymous!

Though I am doing things independently, but if something starts, I am a go for it.

May god bless our scientists with some wisdom and astrologers with some courage!

Om tat sat!

Om Namah Shivaya!

Surya Ianala

Rohiniranjan <rohini_ranjan (AT) hotmail (DOT) com> wrote: