Nasadiya Suktham - the Creation Hymn from Rig Veda!

[Guest guest]

Dear Advaitins :

 

How 'time' appropriate that Shriman Sunder-ji should upload the

Creation hymn ( Nasadiya Suktham ) from Rig Veda Espeacially now

when there is a discussion going on Re: The Theory of Evolution and

the Vedic perspective of Creation in this group !

 

i had also referenced this hymn while discussing Pierre Teilhard de

Chardin ( post 34062) ! But of all the translations available (Ralph

Griffith, Wendy Donnigar , Raimond Pannikar etc - Pannikar's is the

best ! Thanx Sunder-ji for posting this !

 

What is so special about this hymn ? Yes ! It traces the 'origin' of

Creation - But what was there before the creation ? Nothing ;

absolutely nothing ! There was total emptiness ! No being ; no non

being ; no air , no sky ! Darkness ! Total Darkness ! then there was

Light!

 

We are now arguing about Darvin's theory of evolution and its

relevance ? but from this Suktham it is clear that everything was a

mystery - it was a mystery then , it is a mystery now!

 

Pl read these powerful lines of the hymn :

 

Who really knows? Who can presume to tell it?

Whence was it born? Whence issued this creation?

Even the Gods came after its emergence.

Then who can tell from whence it came to ?

 

As THE GREAT astronomer Scientist Carl Sagan so eloquently stated

" We are the product of 4.5 billion years of fortuitous, slow

biological evolution. There is no reason to think that the

evolutionary process has stopped. Man is a transitional animal. He

is not the climax of creation."

 

DO WE REALLY KNOW WHAT HAPPENED ? WHAT WILL HAPPEN IN THE FUTURE ?

 

"That One being, breathless, breathed by its own nature: apart from

it there was nothing else. "

 

Ken Knight , a very learned member of this forum, who presented a

brilliant series on 'mAyA in the Rig Veda' last Summer ! always

used to end his posts with this refrain "`From this Supreme Self are

all these, indeed, breathed forth.'' - i always cherish those lines

for that expains the mystery of creation !

 

Out of one Breath , many breaths came!

 

 

i would request Subbuji and other members who are well versed in

Vedas to give the 'esoteric; meaning of this great Suktham - so far

i have only studied the literal translations!

 

Meanwhile read these lines from Swami Krishnananda of the Divine

life society :

 

" This great declaration in the Nasadiya Sukta of the Rig Veda may

be compared with the big bang theory of the modern physicists. There

was one indescribable point, the nucleus of the would-be expanding

universe. That nucleus was not in space and not in time, because

space and time had not been created yet. It was a bindu, as Tantra

Sastra will tell us. It is a point, but it is not a geometrical

point which requires a space in order to locate itself. This is a

point, neither conceivable logically, nor describable geometrically;

that is why in an enigmatic manner philosophers tell us it is a

centre which is everywhere, with circumference nowhere. It is as if

this centre of a circle has become the circumference itself, and the

whole circle is centre only. Geometrically, from the Euclidian point

of view, we cannot imagine such a kind of circle. How could the

periphery, the circumference, also become the centre? Therefore,

this centre which is the pre-big bang condition is as indescribable

and enigmatic as the dark potential of the would-be creative process

presented before us by the Nasadiya Sukta of the Rig Veda in the

tenth book. "

 

http://www.swami-krishnananda.org/conscious/consc_2.html

 

Swamiji is offering an interestive perspective on the development of

Relgious Cosnciousness !

 

PLEASE READ THIS :

 

The Nasadiya Sukta- "The Supreme Being is both the Unmanifest and

the Manifest, Existence as well as Non-existence, the Supreme

Indeterminable. "

 

The Purusha-Sukta -"All this Universe is God as the Supreme Person,—

the Purusha, with thousands of heads, thousands of eyes, thousands

of limbs in His Cosmic Body. He envelops the whole cosmos and

transcends it to infinity. "

 

The Narayana-Sukta - " whatever is anywhere, visible or invisible,

all this is pervaded by Narayana, within and without. "

 

The Hiranyagarbha-Sukta of the Rig-Veda -" God manifested Himself in

the beginning as the Creator of the Universe, encompassing all

things, including everything within Himself, the collective

totality, as it were, of the whole of creation, animating it as the

Supreme Intelligence."

 

The Satarudriya or Rudra-Adhyaya of the Yajur-Veda-"All things, the

high and the low, the moving and the unmoving, the good and the bad,

the beautiful and the ugly, nay, every conceivable thing, with the

all-pervading Siva, or Rudra, as the Supreme God. "

 

Please read this article on what the upanishads have to say about

the Supreme Reality --- VERY INTERESTING COMPLILATION ! !

 

http://home.comcast.net/~surfings/Cogitation/God_Creation.htm

 

How much more simpler it is to think

 

Vasudevam Sarvam Iti !!!

[Guest guest]

Dear Saraswati-ji,

 

As I am sure you know, the Divine in many traditions has been described as

'the Circle whose centre is everywhere and circumference is nowhere.' Is

this not the immanent and transcendent aspects of the Self / Brahman? In

one sense it is in the Hearts of All. In another sense it is that which is

beyond everything - the timeless limit-less Existence.

 

Regards,

 

Peter

 

 

================

<snip>

 

Meanwhile read these lines from Swami Krishnananda of the Divine

life society :

 

" This great declaration in the Nasadiya Sukta of the Rig Veda may

be compared with the big bang theory of the modern physicists. There

was one indescribable point, the nucleus of the would-be expanding

universe. That nucleus was not in space and not in time, because

space and time had not been created yet. It was a bindu, as Tantra

Sastra will tell us. It is a point, but it is not a geometrical

point which requires a space in order to locate itself. This is a

point, neither conceivable logically, nor describable geometrically;

that is why in an enigmatic manner philosophers tell us it is a

centre which is everywhere, with circumference nowhere. It is as if

this centre of a circle has become the circumference itself, and the

whole circle is centre only. Geometrically, from the Euclidian point

of view, we cannot imagine such a kind of circle. How could the

periphery, the circumference, also become the centre? Therefore,

this centre which is the pre-big bang condition is as indescribable

and enigmatic as the dark potential of the would-be creative process

presented before us by the Nasadiya Sukta of the Rig Veda in the

tenth book. "

[Guest guest]

Peter-ji writes :

 

(As I am sure you know, the Divine in many traditions has been

described as 'the Circle whose centre is everywhere and

circumference is nowhere.' )

 

i am delighted you picked on this right away , Peter-ji!

 

I guess we really do not know who this statement is really

attributed to ( may be our Ananda-ji can throw light on the origins

of this powerful statement ) but i have read on the net it

was "Voltaire who must have gotten it from St.Augustine, and

Augustine got it from neplatonism. Moscato, a sixteenth century

Italian kabbalist, also quotes this sentence in his "The Divine

Circle", and attributes it to Hermes Trismegistus ("the Egyptian

wise man"). I cannot now find the actual first source, but it must

be something middle or neoplatonic or hermetic" - i have seen this

quoted in jungian circles too ( no pun intended) ! This was a

favorite quote of Swami Vivekananda also!

 

 

As a worshippper of the 'divine feminine' i also believe in a

circle - can Goddess be ever confined ? She has no begginning and no

end just like a circle - She is Adi and she is Anadi Shakti ! !

 

As The Svetasvatara Upanishad says, "Thou art without beginning and

beyond all time and space"

 

Sri Mahavishnu is 'anaadi-nidhanah' -the One without beginning and

without end !

 

YES! you are right . Peter- ji ,

 

( He is in the hearts of all !! In another sense it is that which is

> beyond everything - the timeless limit-less Existence.)

 

Beautiful sentiments! Thanks !

 

 

Om Namo Narayana!

[Guest guest]

ShrIgurubhyo namaH

Namaste,

 

Is there a translation of the Sayanacharya's commentary on the

NAsadIya Suktam? Even if the original is available, the text may pl.

be provided here.

 

The following was culled from some website:

 

 

The Nasadiya sukta

 

For a Western scientist like Brian Greene, the answer may appear to

be ridicules but the Indian seers since time immemorial have echoed

it as ananta i. e. infinite. This universe which is material

manifestation of the Brahman, who is an infinite being.

 

RIGVEDIC MODEL OF CREATION: nAsadIya sUkta (RV 10.129)

A few years ago, well-known cosmologist, Steven Weinberg wrote an

excellent book, "The First Three Minutes"(7). It gave the lucid

account of the events that must have occurred in the first three

minutes of the BIG BANG when the matter and space came into

existence from the primordial soup in the state of singularity. This

state of singularity was marked by the nature of the point existence

with its mass, density and energy being infinite.

 

On the very similar lines there is a Rigvedic hymn that elaborates

the phenomenon of creation. The hymn title is nAsadIya sUkta (RV

10.129.1-7). The description in the hymn runs almost parallel with

the BIG BANG description step by step. Modern science is

yet to delve in the state of existence before BIG BANG. However the

first two stanzas of the hymn describe the state of primordial

existence.

 

According to the nAsadIya sUkta:

 

1. In the beginning there existed a state beyond description or

definition. It was neither sat, i.e., existence marked by name and

form, neither asat i.e. not existing.

2. There did neither exist the time nor space.

3. There was none to be enveloped nor enveloping entity.

4. There was neither death nor deathlessness.

5. There was neither day nor night.

6. The primordial existence breathed within itself, by its own law.

7. There was nothing beyond itself.

Above points are dealt in the first 2 stanzas of the hymn. Here the

vedic seer has gone a step ahead of the modern science. He states

that the primordial existence was breathing within itself. What does

it mean? Did it vibrate within itself, possibly within

dimensions that measured less than the Plank length of 10-33 cm and

before an event of less than Plank time of 10-43 sec under the Plank

tension of 1039 tons.

 

Modern cosmology is still grappling with the problem of nature of

primordial existence or phenomenon at the core of the black hole.

Once the black hole core nature is understood the primordial

existence could possibly be extrapolated. According to the

string theory, it needs additional dimensions beyond the four

dimensional existence of the relativistic universe to define the

quantum primordial singularity.

 

When the BIGBANG occurred:

8. There was darkness hidden by darkness. This refers it the dark

matter of neutrinoes that the modern cosmologists predict.

9. Vibrations (salilam) were concealed within.

10. It came into being instantaneously.

11. It came into being out of enormous heat (tapas tat mahinA).

12. It came into being from the state of indefinable existence in to

defined state.

13. Light stretched out criss-crossing the whole existence.

14. There were impregnators the seeding materials that led to the

formation of sat with name and form.

15. A cord extended that connected the ends together.

16. There were mighty forces that came into being.

17. It was covered with emptiness.

18. There was impulse beneath.

19. There was giving forth (output) above.

20. It came into being out of the desire that germinated the whole

program of creation (kAmastadagre samavartatAdhi).

 

Above points are derived from the comments made by

a) Windy Doniger O' Flaherty(8)

b) V. Madhusudan Reddy(9)

c) Pt. Sitaramashastri Kurundkar, my revered Guru(10)

 

The perception of the ultimate truth leading to the unique

phenomenon of creation of universe could not be expressed without

giving analogies. The vedic seer gave the analogy of unfathomable

depths of water - gahanam gabhIram – while expressing the primordial

state of matter. In order to clarify that there existed no time, the

statement made is - na rAtryA anha AsIt i.e. there existed neither

night nor day. The primordial turbulance is described as salilam.

 

The `Nasadiya Sukta' is perhaps the most scientific description of

the ultimate Reality as well as of the projection of the phenomenal

world. It makes the relative and the Absolute, nature and Spirit,

the twin aspects of that one Reality and shows that men of wisdom

(kavayah), who had controlled their senses, found out the ultimate

cause of this world (which appears to be real) in their own hearts

(hridi) through concentrated intellects (manisha).

 

Pranams to all,

subbu

Om Tat Sat

[Guest guest]

advaitin, "subrahmanian_v"

<subrahmanian_v wrote:

>

> ShrIgurubhyo namaH

> Namaste,

>

> Is there a translation of the Sayanacharya's commentary on the

> NAsadIya Suktam? Even if the original is available, the text may

pl.

> be provided here.

 

 

The sanskrit original is at:

 

http://tinyurl.com/y26pkz pp. 178-192

 

 

 

Title Sayana's commentary on The Rigveda

Author1 Pashupati Nath Shastri

Author2

Subject Sanskrit literature

Language sanskrit

Barcode 1990010087956

Year 1921

[Guest guest]

advaitin, "advaitins" <advaitins wrote:

> The sanskrit original is at:

>

> http://tinyurl.com/y26pkz pp. 178-192

>

>

>

> Title Sayana's commentary on The Rigveda

> Author1 Pashupati Nath Shastri

> Author2

> Subject Sanskrit literature

> Language sanskrit

> Barcode 1990010087956

> Year 1921

>

 

Namaste,

Many thanks for the link. It will take some time to read it fully

and assimilate the purport. The Commentator has cited many PANini

sUtras in the course of the commentary. The commentary is Advaitic

in nature.

 

Regards,

subbu

Om Tat Sat