Official Ramakanta vs. IRM discussion thread

[Guest guest]

Posted by Yaduraja on Nov 29, 2006:

 

Dear Ramakanta Prabhu,

PAMHO. AGTSP!

I thought you had proudly announced you were not going to speculate!

 

You wrote:

 

> All these statements are directed to his initiated disciples. You wrongly

> assume that they apply to everyone.

 

This is speculation. These statements are also given in his books which

would apply to everyone. The books were meant to be distributed to everyone,

not just Srila Prabhupada's original disciples, did you not know that?:

 

> Such association with Krsna and the Spiritual Master should be association

> by vibration not physical presence. That is real association.

> (Elevation to Krsna Consciousness, (BBT 1973), Page 57 )

>

> Such association with Krsna and the Spiritual Master should be association

> by vibration not physical presence. That is real association.

> (Elevation to Krsna Consciousness, (BBT 1973), Page 57 )

>

> There are two ways of association - by vani and by vapuh. Vani means words

> and vapuh means physical presence. Physical presence is sometimes

> appreciable and sometimes not, but Vani continues to exist eternally.

> Therefore, one must take advantage of the Vani, not the physical presence.

> (CC, Antya 5 Conclusion )

>

> It is sometimes misunderstood that if one has to associate with persons

> engaged in devotional service, he will not be able to solve the economic

> problem. To answer this argument, it is described here that one has to

> associate with liberated persons not directly, physically, but by

> understanding, through philosophy and logic, the problems of life.

> (SB 3:31:48 )

>

> Reception of spiritual knowledge is never checked by any material

> condition. (SB (1987)Ed) 7.7.1.)

>

> The potency of transcendental sound is never minimised because the

> vibrator is apparently absent.

> (SB 2.9.8.)

>

> If there is no chance to serve the spiritual master directly, a devotee

> should serve him by remembering his instructions. There is no difference

> between the spiritual masters instructions and the spiritual master

> himself. In the absence therefore, his words of direction should be pride

> of the disciple.

> (CC(1975 Ed) Adi 1.35)

>

> He lives forever by his divine instructions, and the follower lives with

> him. (SB(1962 Ed) Preface)

>

> The spiritual master by his words, can penetrate into the heart of the

> suffering person and inject knowledge transcendental which alone can

> extinguish the fire of material existence.

> (SB(1987 Ed) 1.7.22)

 

To prove to everyone that you are not speculating can you now produce a

statement from Srila Prabhupada that says:

 

‘the statements in my books regarding the irrelevance of the physical

presence of the spiritual master only apply to my initiated disciples’...

 

....or is this the product of a tiny pea brain?

 

> Of course, the physical presence of the guru might be immaterial, but only

> after initiation.

 

This is speculation. Do you have a statement from Srila Prabhupada that

says:

 

‘the physical presence of the guru is only immaterial after the initiation

ceremony?’ ...

 

or is this the product of a tiny pea brain?

 

you ask:

 

> Why did Srila Prabhupada go to New York and other cities, if his physical

> presence was not required there to initiate and deliver disciples, as you

> claim?

 

The question you need to answer is:

 

'why did Srila Prabhupada NOT attend scores of initiation ceremonies if his

physical presence was absolutely required at the point of initiation as you

claim?'

 

> Your statement remains fuzzy because you did not write for what the

> physical presence is not required.

 

I am simply repeating Srila Prabhupada's statements, as above. The fact that

you do not appear to appreciate them is a very worrying sign.

 

Transmission of knowledge is the main constituent of the process of diksa,

and that does not require the physical presence of the guru.

 

Come over from the 'dark side' Ramakanta prabhu!

Best wishes

Ys

Yadu