A Brief Essay on Kundalini Shakti in teh west at- Luthar.com

November 30, 2006

Dear Friends,

I have written a brief essay on the history of the notion of Kundalini

Shakti in the West at www.luthar.com. Comments are welcome.

Harsha

--

November 30, 2006

, Harsha wrote:

>

> Dear Friends,

>

> I have written a brief essay on the history of the notion of

Kundalini

> Shakti in the West at www.luthar.com. Comments are welcome.

>

> Harsha

Namaste,

Yes Vivekananda may have mentioned it at Chicago, but I think the first

full blown intro to the West was by Sir John Woodroffe, in 'The Serpent

Power', he is as you know also known as Arther Avalon......Regards Tony.

http://users.telenet.be/ananda/jwdrf.htm

I would say that a more accurate description would be Kundalini Prana,

which is a manifestation of the Sakti.............Tony.

December 1, 2006

______

[]

On Behalf Of Harsha

Thursday, November 30, 2006 11:04 AM

; NondualitySalon;

advaitin; ;

Kundaliniyoga

A Brief Essay on Kundalini Shakti in

teh west at- Luthar.com

Dear Friends,

I have written a brief essay on the history of the notion of Kundalini

Shakti in the West at www.luthar.com. Comments are welcome.

Harsha

Dear Harsha,

Thanks for your article on Kundalini Shakti.

The revelation of the Self, the knowledge of Brahman, the actual source and

support of the entire universe, the darshan of Satchidananda, these phrases

all mean the same thing. And the actual knowledge of these conditions is

revealed through the agency of the Kundalini Shakti. Entering into and

abiding in "pure consciousness" is facilitated only through the agency of

the Kundalini Shakti.

The Kundalini Shakti is the basis of Hindu Dharma. Considering the

ubiquitous presence of Lingam / Yoni in Hindu culture leads one to

understand how the experience of the Maha Shakti by the ancient seers has

molded Hindu Spirituality. The members of the Brahmin caste, are also known

as the "twice born". In the rare case when it actually happens, this second

birth is the result of a fully awakened Kundalini. This fact is evidenced

by the wearing of the sacred thread which is actually three threads

representing Ida, Pingala and Sushumna.

Jesus the Christ is reported to have said that "You must be born again.

What is born of flesh is flesh; but what is born of Spirit is Spirit. Do

not marvel that I tell you that you must be born again." This is similar to

the idea of the Brahmin "twice born".

Sri Ramakrishna is reported to have said, "No spiritual progress is possible

without the awakening of the Kundalini."

If I had to choose between an entire lifetime abiding in the thought-free

condition, or one moment spent immersed in the awakened Shakti, the embrace

of the Divine Mother, I would choose the one moment caught in the embrace of

the Divine Mother. (Fortunately, I don't have to choose.)

Peace and Love,

michael

December 2, 2006

, "Michael Bowes"

<aumshanti wrote:

>

> ______

>

[]

> On Behalf Of Harsha

> Thursday, November 30, 2006 11:04 AM

> ; NondualitySalon;

> advaitin; ;

> Kundaliniyoga

> A Brief Essay on Kundalini

Shakti in

> teh west at- Luthar.com

>

> Dear Friends,

>

> I have written a brief essay on the history of the notion of

Kundalini

> Shakti in the West at www.luthar.com. Comments are welcome.

>

> Harsha

>

> Dear Harsha,

> Thanks for your article on Kundalini Shakti.

>

> The revelation of the Self, the knowledge of Brahman, the actual

source and

> support of the entire universe, the darshan of Satchidananda, these

phrases

> all mean the same thing. And the actual knowledge of these

conditions is

> revealed through the agency of the Kundalini Shakti. Entering into

and

> abiding in "pure consciousness" is facilitated only through the

agency of

> the Kundalini Shakti.

>

> The Kundalini Shakti is the basis of Hindu Dharma. Considering the

> ubiquitous presence of Lingam / Yoni in Hindu culture leads one to

> understand how the experience of the Maha Shakti by the ancient

seers has

> molded Hindu Spirituality. The members of the Brahmin caste, are

also known

> as the "twice born". In the rare case when it actually happens,

this second

> birth is the result of a fully awakened Kundalini. This fact is

evidenced

> by the wearing of the sacred thread which is actually three threads

> representing Ida, Pingala and Sushumna.

>

> Jesus the Christ is reported to have said that "You must be born

again.

> What is born of flesh is flesh; but what is born of Spirit is

Spirit. Do

> not marvel that I tell you that you must be born again." This is

similar to

> the idea of the Brahmin "twice born".

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

the sufi dictum states "die before you die". since

all-pervading and timeless life has no opposite, 'birth'

being the mirror relflection of 'death', it conveys the

same idea.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

> Sri Ramakrishna is reported to have said, "No spiritual progress is

possible

> without the awakening of the Kundalini."

>

> If I had to choose between an entire lifetime abiding in the

thought-free

> condition, or one moment spent immersed in the awakened Shakti, the

embrace

> of the Divine Mother, I would choose the one moment caught in the

embrace of

> the Divine Mother.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

what is the difference?

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

(Fortunately, I don't have to choose.)

>

> Peace and Love,

>

> michael

>

_()_

yosy

December 2, 2006

_____

[]

On Behalf Of yosyx

Friday, December 01, 2006 7:07 PM

Re: A Brief Essay on Kundalini

Shakti in teh west at- Luthar.com

@ <%40>

, "Michael Bowes"

<aumshanti wrote:

>

> ______

> @ <%40>

[@ <%40>

]

> On Behalf Of Harsha

> Thursday, November 30, 2006 11:04 AM

> @ <%40>

; NondualitySalon@ <NondualitySalon%40>

;

> advaitin@ <advaitin%40> s.com;

@ <%40> ;

> Kundaliniyoga@ <Kundaliniyoga%40>

> A Brief Essay on Kundalini

Shakti in

> teh west at- Luthar.com

>

> Dear Friends,

>

> I have written a brief essay on the history of the notion of

Kundalini

> Shakti in the West at www.luthar.com. Comments are welcome.

>

> Harsha

>

> Dear Harsha,

> Thanks for your article on Kundalini Shakti.

>

> The revelation of the Self, the knowledge of Brahman, the actual

source and

> support of the entire universe, the darshan of Satchidananda, these

phrases

> all mean the same thing. And the actual knowledge of these

conditions is

> revealed through the agency of the Kundalini Shakti. Entering into

and

> abiding in "pure consciousness" is facilitated only through the

agency of

> the Kundalini Shakti.

>

> The Kundalini Shakti is the basis of Hindu Dharma. Considering the

> ubiquitous presence of Lingam / Yoni in Hindu culture leads one to

> understand how the experience of the Maha Shakti by the ancient

seers has

> molded Hindu Spirituality. The members of the Brahmin caste, are

also known

> as the "twice born". In the rare case when it actually happens,

this second

> birth is the result of a fully awakened Kundalini. This fact is

evidenced

> by the wearing of the sacred thread which is actually three threads

> representing Ida, Pingala and Sushumna.

>

> Jesus the Christ is reported to have said that "You must be born

again.

> What is born of flesh is flesh; but what is born of Spirit is

Spirit. Do

> not marvel that I tell you that you must be born again." This is

similar to

> the idea of the Brahmin "twice born".

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

the sufi dictum states "die before you die". since

all-pervading and timeless life has no opposite, 'birth'

being the mirror relflection of 'death', it conveys the

same idea.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Yes please, go ahead - die. I shall not stop you.

And we will know when it is done without your words speaking.

> Sri Ramakrishna is reported to have said, "No spiritual progress is

possible

> without the awakening of the Kundalini."

>

> If I had to choose between an entire lifetime abiding in the

thought-free

> condition, or one moment spent immersed in the awakened Shakti, the

embrace

> of the Divine Mother, I would choose the one moment caught in the

embrace of

> the Divine Mother.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

what is the difference?

mb: Unfortunately you don't know.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

(Fortunately, I don't have to choose.)

>

> Peace and Love,

>

> michael

>

_()_

yosy

December 2, 2006

, "Michael Bowes"

<aumshanti wrote:

>

> _____

>

[]

> On Behalf Of yosyx

> Friday, December 01, 2006 7:07 PM

>

> Re: A Brief Essay on

Kundalini

> Shakti in teh west at- Luthar.com

>

> @ <%40>

> , "Michael Bowes"

> <aumshanti@> wrote:

> >

> > ______

> > @ <%40>

>

> [@ <%40>

> ]

> > On Behalf Of Harsha

> > Thursday, November 30, 2006 11:04 AM

> > @ <%40>

> ; NondualitySalon@ <NondualitySalon%

40>

> ;

> > advaitin@ <advaitin%40> s.com;

> @ <%40>

;

> > Kundaliniyoga@ <Kundaliniyoga%40>

> > A Brief Essay on

Kundalini

> Shakti in

> > teh west at- Luthar.com

> >

> > Dear Friends,

> >

> > I have written a brief essay on the history of the notion of

> Kundalini

> > Shakti in the West at www.luthar.com. Comments are welcome.

> >

> > Harsha

> >

> > Dear Harsha,

> > Thanks for your article on Kundalini Shakti.

> >

> > The revelation of the Self, the knowledge of Brahman, the actual

> source and

> > support of the entire universe, the darshan of Satchidananda,

these

> phrases

> > all mean the same thing. And the actual knowledge of these

> conditions is

> > revealed through the agency of the Kundalini Shakti. Entering

into

> and

> > abiding in "pure consciousness" is facilitated only through the

> agency of

> > the Kundalini Shakti.

> >

> > The Kundalini Shakti is the basis of Hindu Dharma. Considering the

> > ubiquitous presence of Lingam / Yoni in Hindu culture leads one to

> > understand how the experience of the Maha Shakti by the ancient

> seers has

> > molded Hindu Spirituality. The members of the Brahmin caste, are

> also known

> > as the "twice born". In the rare case when it actually happens,

> this second

> > birth is the result of a fully awakened Kundalini. This fact is

> evidenced

> > by the wearing of the sacred thread which is actually three

threads

> > representing Ida, Pingala and Sushumna.

> >

> > Jesus the Christ is reported to have said that "You must be born

> again.

> > What is born of flesh is flesh; but what is born of Spirit is

> Spirit. Do

> > not marvel that I tell you that you must be born again." This is

> similar to

> > the idea of the Brahmin "twice born".

>

> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

> the sufi dictum states "die before you die". since

> all-pervading and timeless life has no opposite, 'birth'

> being the mirror relflection of 'death', it conveys the

> same idea.

> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

>

> Yes please, go ahead - die. I shall not stop you.

===================

hahaha "i" died long ago. (was never born, really.)

this realization is just a matter of time, my friend;

(which is only now anyway)...

=====================

>

> And we will know when it is done without your words speaking.

>

==============

who is "we"?

=============

my friend, untill you too

will realize it. this is the only certainity. whatever

experinces birth experienced death.

> > Sri Ramakrishna is reported to have said, "No spiritual progress

is

> possible

> > without the awakening of the Kundalini."

> >

> > If I had to choose between an entire lifetime abiding in the

> thought-free

> > condition, or one moment spent immersed in the awakened Shakti,

the

> embrace

> > of the Divine Mother, I would choose the one moment caught in the

> embrace of

> > the Divine Mother.

>

> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

> what is the difference?

>

> mb: Unfortunately you don't know.

>

================

do you? pray tell what it is?

is this the same "we" that << will know when it

is done >> speaking?

================

> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

>

> (Fortunately, I don't have to choose.)

> >

> > Peace and Love,

> >

> > michael

> >

>

> _()_

> yosy

>

yosy

December 2, 2006

_____

[]

On Behalf Of yosyx

Friday, December 01, 2006 9:59 PM

Re: A Brief Essay on Kundalini

Shakti in teh west at- Luthar.com

@ <%40>

, "Michael Bowes"

<aumshanti wrote:

>

> _____

>

> @ <%40>

[@ <%40>

]

> On Behalf Of yosyx

> Friday, December 01, 2006 7:07 PM

> @ <%40>

> Re: A Brief Essay on

Kundalini

> Shakti in teh west at- Luthar.com

>

> @ <%40>

> , "Michael Bowes"

> <aumshanti@> wrote:

> >

> > ______

> > @ <%40>

>

> [@ <%40>

> ]

> > On Behalf Of Harsha

> > Thursday, November 30, 2006 11:04 AM

> > @ <%40>

> ; NondualitySalon@ <NondualitySalon%

40>

> ;

> > advaitin@ <advaitin%40> s.com;

> @ <%40>

;

> > Kundaliniyoga@ <Kundaliniyoga%40>

> > A Brief Essay on

Kundalini

> Shakti in

> > teh west at- Luthar.com

> >

> > Dear Friends,

> >

> > I have written a brief essay on the history of the notion of

> Kundalini

> > Shakti in the West at www.luthar.com. Comments are welcome.

> >

> > Harsha

> >

> > Dear Harsha,

> > Thanks for your article on Kundalini Shakti.

> >

snip

> Yes please, go ahead - die. I shall not stop you.

===================

hahaha "i" died long ago. (was never born, really.)

this realization is just a matter of time, my friend;

(which is only now anyway)...

=====================

mb writes: Yes, yes, of course you did. So who is it that is writing your

words?

>

> And we will know when it is done without your words speaking.

>

==============

who is "we"?

=============

mb writes: Well my friend if you weren't so dead you would know who "we"

are.

Try being a little less dead. You will discover lots of beings that are

present online and in real life.

my friend, untill you too

will realize it. this is the only certainity. whatever

experinces birth experienced death.

mb writes: Yes, yes of course my friend of course, nearly any child knows

that.

> > Sri Ramakrishna is reported to have said, "No spiritual progress

is

> possible

> > without the awakening of the Kundalini."

> >

> > If I had to choose between an entire lifetime abiding in the

> thought-free

> > condition, or one moment spent immersed in the awakened Shakti,

the

> embrace

> > of the Divine Mother, I would choose the one moment caught in the

> embrace of

> > the Divine Mother.

>

> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

> what is the difference?

>

> mb: Unfortunately you don't know.

>

> > Peace and Love,

> >

> > michael

> >

>

> _()_

> yosy

>

yosy

Warm regards,

michael

December 2, 2006

, "Michael Bowes"

<aumshanti wrote:

>

> _____

>

[]

> On Behalf Of yosyx

> Friday, December 01, 2006 9:59 PM

>

> Re: A Brief Essay on

Kundalini

> Shakti in teh west at- Luthar.com

>

> @ <%40>

> , "Michael Bowes"

> <aumshanti@> wrote:

> >

> > _____

> snip

>

> > Yes please, go ahead - die. I shall not stop you.

>

> ===================

> hahaha "i" died long ago. (was never born, really.)

> this realization is just a matter of time, my friend;

> (which is only now anyway)...

> =====================

> mb writes: Yes, yes, of course you did. So who is it that is

writing your

> words?

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

who is asking? are you sure there must be

a 'someone' writing them? maybe they arise

spontaneously?

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

>

> >

> > And we will know when it is done without your words speaking.

> >

>

> ==============

> who is "we"?

> =============

>

> mb writes: Well my friend if you weren't so dead you would know

who "we"

> are.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

oh, i see... you got worms? multiple personality?

or is it just the royal form?

oh, and btw, what is the difference between "dead"

and "alive"?

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

>

> Try being a little less dead.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

is this like being a little less pregnant?

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

You will discover lots of beings that are

> present online and in real life.

>

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

oh? isn't "real life", "being present" and "beings"

expressions of one and the same?

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

>

> my friend, untill you too

> will realize it. this is the only certainity. whatever

> experinces birth experienced death.

>

> mb writes: Yes, yes of course my friend of course, nearly any

child knows

> that.

>

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

intelectual understanding is not the same as

direct, unmedited realization. knowing is not

a belief, mental exercise or acceptance. true

knowing is being. beyond beliefs, doubts etc.

"how do i know that this is so? because it is!"

(lao tse)

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

<snip>

>

>> > > If I had to choose between an entire lifetime abiding in the

> > thought-free

> > > condition, or one moment spent immersed in the awakened Shakti,

> the

> > embrace

> > > of the Divine Mother, I would choose the one moment caught in

the

> > embrace of

> > > the Divine Mother.

> >

> > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

> > what is the difference?

> >

> > mb: Unfortunately you don't know.

> >

>

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

still, my friend, you did not enlighten me

on this... so, allow me to ask you again:

what is the difference?

truth is not an experience!

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

>

> > > Peace and Love,

> > >

> > > michael

> > >

> >

> > _()_

> > yosy

> >

>

> yosy

>

> Warm regards,

>

> michael

>

^^^^^^^^^^^^

ditto, michael my friend

yosy (for real)

December 2, 2006

, Maharishi <maharishibingo

wrote:

>

> Dear Ones, Dear Michael Bowes,

>

> Indeed, Shakti is life giving and it is life. It is mystery that

reveals

> more mysteries. Who can fathom the Mother Divine, the rich Goddess

of

> celestial colors. More than anything, ultimately, She reveals Her

source to

> be the all blissful nowness ever newness that is our being where

She is the

> Self.

i usually refer to this kind of 'illuminated' talk

as "mantra-tantra-kundalini-cha-cha-cha" blah blah.

>

> Love and Blessings

> Maharishi

December 2, 2006

Dear One,

And that's perfectly OK.

Love and Blessings

Maharishi

On 12/2/06, yosyx <yosyflug (AT) isdn (DOT) net.il> wrote:

>

> i usually refer to this kind of 'illuminated' talk

> as "mantra-tantra-kundalini-cha-cha-cha" blah blah.

>

December 3, 2006

_____

[]

On Behalf Of yosyx

Saturday, December 02, 2006 10:36 AM

Re: A Brief Essay on Kundalini

Shakti in teh west at- Luthar.com

@ <%40>

, "Michael Bowes"

<aumshanti wrote:

>

> _____

>

> @ <%40>

[@ <%40>

]

> On Behalf Of yosyx

> Friday, December 01, 2006 9:59 PM

> @ <%40>

> Re: A Brief Essay on

Kundalini

> Shakti in teh west at- Luthar.com

>

> @ <%40>

> , "Michael Bowes"

> <aumshanti@> wrote:

> >

> > _____

> snip

>

> > Yes please, go ahead - die. I shall not stop you.

>

> ===================

> hahaha "i" died long ago. (was never born, really.)

> this realization is just a matter of time, my friend;

> (which is only now anyway)...

> =====================

> mb writes: Yes, yes, of course you did. So who is it that is

writing your

> words?

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

who is asking? are you sure there must be

a 'someone' writing them? maybe they arise

spontaneously?

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

mb: The "One" is asking.

Yes things arise spontaneously that's why we don't have to be responsible

for anything. The freedom is nice isn't it?

>

> >

> > And we will know when it is done without your words speaking.

> >

>

> ==============

> who is "we"?

> =============

>

> mb writes: Well my friend if you weren't so dead you would know

who "we"

> are.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

oh, i see... you got worms? multiple personality?

or is it just the royal form?

mb writes: "We" are the "One" my friend.

oh, and btw, what is the difference between "dead"

and "alive"?

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

mb writes: You were the "One" who said that "you" were dead, so why don't

you tell me?

>

> Try being a little less dead.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

is this like being a little less pregnant?

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

mb writes: Exactly!!!

You will discover lots of beings that are

> present online and in real life.

>

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

oh? isn't "real life", "being present" and "beings"

expressions of one and the same?

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

mb: Yes "real life" is what you say and so much more.......

>

> my friend, untill you too

> will realize it. this is the only certainity. whatever

> experinces birth experienced death.

>

> mb writes: Yes, yes of course my friend of course, nearly any

child knows

> that.

>

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

intelectual understanding is not the same as

direct, unmedited realization. knowing is not

a belief, mental exercise or acceptance. true

knowing is being. beyond beliefs, doubts etc.

"how do i know that this is so? because it is!"

(lao tse)

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

mb: That's what I'm talking about, "realization", I responded to Harsha's

article on Kundalini. You may not have had the experience; but the Maha

Shakti delivers certain realizations to someOnes, sometimes. I'm sorry if

you don't know that, or like that, or acknowledge that. You probably just

don't know. You can't be blamed for having an erroneous opinion about

something that you've never experienced.

<snip>

>

>> > > If I had to choose between an entire lifetime abiding in the

> > thought-free

> > > condition, or one moment spent immersed in the awakened Shakti,

> the

> > embrace

> > > of the Divine Mother, I would choose the one moment caught in

the

> > embrace of

> > > the Divine Mother.

> >

> > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

> > what is the difference?

> >

> > mb: Unfortunately you don't know.

> >

>

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

still, my friend, you did not enlighten me

on this... so, allow me to ask you again:

what is the difference?

truth is not an experience!

mb: Experiences happen and they pass. There is nothing wrong in that.

What has happened is true because it occurred. What has occurred is at

least as true as anyone's philosophy. IMHO if you want to point to something

that is not "true", it would be most anyone's philosophy. I'd rather trust

an experience than a cloud of thought and a fog of supposition. The

experiences were true; but the suppositions and philosophy that springs up

around anything that is ethereal is just so much hot air.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

>

> > > Peace and Love,

> > >

> > > michael

> > >

> >

> > _()_

> > yosy

> >

>

> yosy

>

> Warm regards,

>

> michael

>

^^^^^^^^^^^^

ditto, michael my friend

yosy (for real)

Warmest regards,

michael

December 3, 2006

Dear Michael and Yosy,

Just to add a few thoughts along with your own (well, to your initial ones,

anyway).

Along with the line of 'twice born' (Brahmin) and 'die before you die'

(sufi) there is another sufi saying - I'm not sure whether its from Rumi or

his nephew:

'Each person needs to be born twice,

Once from their own mother,

And then again from their own existence'

Its interesting to reflect on this in relation to 'existence' as Sat,

Reality.

The 'die before you die' resonates deeply, and of course there are hints

here of the death of ego (and hence ignorance0 being more important than the

death of the body.

Jesus the Christ, embraces both the themes of birth and death:

"..whosoever will lose his life for My sake, the same shall save it." (Luke

9:23,24)

In the Bhagavad Gita, Krishna informs us that or true nature is beyond both

birth and death.

"Never is this One born, and never does It die; nor is it that having come

to exist, It will again cease to be.

The One is birthless, eternal, undecaying, ancient.

It is not killed when the body is killed" (Bh. Gita 2: 20)

A few verses earlier we hear that not only is our real nature beyond birth

and death, but that which appears unreal has no real existence or being at

all.

"Of the unreal there is no being; the real has no nonexistence.

The nature of both of these, indeed, has been realised by the seers of

Truth." ( Bh. Gita 2: 16)

Hence Ramana Maharshi spells it out even more clearly in the following

passage:

"The fact is that there is neither birth nor death." (Talk 17)

Regards,

Peter

"Experience is something you don't get until just after you need it" (anon)

December 3, 2006

, "Michael Bowes"

<aumshanti wrote:

>

> _____

>

[]

> On Behalf Of yosyx

> Saturday, December 02, 2006 10:36 AM

>

> Re: A Brief Essay on

Kundalini

> Shakti in teh west at- Luthar.com

>

> @ <%40>

> , "Michael Bowes"

> <aumshanti@> wrote:

> >

> > _____

> >

> > @ <%40>

>

> [@ <%40>

> ]

> > On Behalf Of yosyx

> > Friday, December 01, 2006 9:59 PM

> > @ <%40>

>

> > Re: A Brief Essay on

> Kundalini

> > Shakti in teh west at- Luthar.com

> >

> > @ <%40>

> > , "Michael Bowes"

> > <aumshanti@> wrote:

> > >

> > > _____

>

> > snip

> >

> > > Yes please, go ahead - die. I shall not stop you.

> >

> > ===================

> > hahaha "i" died long ago. (was never born, really.)

> > this realization is just a matter of time, my friend;

> > (which is only now anyway)...

> > =====================

> > mb writes: Yes, yes, of course you did. So who is it that is

> writing your

> > words?

>

> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

> who is asking? are you sure there must be

> a 'someone' writing them? maybe they arise

> spontaneously?

> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

>

> mb: The "One" is asking.

*************************

lol thre is no "one" asking. all containing,

timeless, 'all-knowing' - who is asking whom?

*************************

>

> Yes things arise spontaneously that's why we don't have to be

responsible

> for anything.

***********************

"the resuts of our actions are there to chase

us long after we forgot what prompted them"

(f.nietzche, from memory)

the consequences of all actions return to their

origin. as they say in idf, "not knowing the law

does not prevent punishment". cause and effect

are one.

knowing or not, "we" are fully responsible for all.

**************************

The freedom is nice isn't it?

**************

oh yes!

**************

>

> >

> > >

> > > And we will know when it is done without your words speaking.

> > >

> >

> > ==============

> > who is "we"?

> > =============

> >

> > mb writes: Well my friend if you weren't so dead you would know

> who "we"

> > are.

>

> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

> oh, i see... you got worms? multiple personality?

> or is it just the royal form?

>

> mb writes: "We" are the "One" my friend.

>

***********************

hehe as stated, the "one" does not exists...

"one" versus what?

**********************

>

> oh, and btw, what is the difference between "dead"

> and "alive"?

> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

>

> mb writes: You were the "One" who said that "you" were dead, so

why don't

> you tell me?

********************

no, michael amigo, i never said that. i said that

i died. there is a difference, but do not worry.

this you will find out for sure. memento mori!

********************

>

> >

> > Try being a little less dead.

>

> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

> is this like being a little less pregnant?

> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

>

> mb writes: Exactly!!!

>

> You will discover lots of beings that are

> > present online and in real life.

> >

>

> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

> oh? isn't "real life", "being present" and "beings"

> expressions of one and the same?

> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

>

> mb: Yes "real life" is what you say and so much more.......

>

******************

oh yes... "truth is something i never said, nor

will i ever" (mulla nasrudin)

******************

>

> >

> > my friend, untill you too

> > will realize it. this is the only certainity. whatever

> > experinces birth experienced death.

> >

> > mb writes: Yes, yes of course my friend of course, nearly any

> child knows

> > that.

> >

>

> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

> intelectual understanding is not the same as

> direct, unmedited realization. knowing is not

> a belief, mental exercise or acceptance. true

> knowing is being. beyond beliefs, doubts etc.

>

> "how do i know that this is so? because it is!"

> (lao tse)

> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

>

> mb: That's what I'm talking about, "realization", I responded to

Harsha's

> article on Kundalini. You may not have had the experience; but the

Maha

> Shakti delivers certain realizations to someOnes, sometimes.

***********************

the true always is; the untrue never has existence"

(the bhagawadgita)

************************

I'm sorry if

> you don't know that, or like that, or acknowledge that. You

probably just

> don't know. You can't be blamed for having an erroneous opinion

about

> something that you've never experienced.

>

*********************

hahaha assumptions, my friend, assumptions...

as it happenes, i had a whole game of 'kundalini'

experiences in the late seventies of last century.

(luckily avoided hospitalization and/or commitment,

thanks to good friends).

oh, and do not be sorry. better just do not repeat

whatever it is that made you sorry...

******************

>

> <snip>

> >

>

> >> > > If I had to choose between an entire lifetime abiding in the

> > > thought-free

> > > > condition, or one moment spent immersed in the awakened

Shakti,

> > the

> > > embrace

> > > > of the Divine Mother, I would choose the one moment caught in

> the

> > > embrace of

> > > > the Divine Mother.

> > >

> > > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

> > > what is the difference?

> > >

> > > mb: Unfortunately you don't know.

> > >

> >

>

> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

> still, my friend, you did not enlighten me

> on this... so, allow me to ask you again:

> what is the difference?

>

> truth is not an experience!

>

> mb: Experiences happen and they pass. There is nothing wrong in

that.

>

**************

right.

**************

> What has happened is true because it occurred. What has occurred

is at

> least as true as anyone's philosophy. IMHO if you want to point to

something

> that is not "true", it would be most anyone's philosophy. I'd

rather trust

> an experience than a cloud of thought and a fog of supposition.

***********

of course.

***********

The

> experiences were true; but the suppositions and philosophy that

springs up

> around anything that is ethereal is just so much hot air.

>

*******************

yes. but attachment to experiences etc is still an

attachment. and truth/realization is not something

that comes and goes. i repeat: truth is not an

experience.

*******************

>

> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

>

> >

> > > > Peace and Love,

> > > >

> > > > michael

> > > >

> > >

> > > _()_

> > > yosy

> > >

> >

> > yosy

> >

> > Warm regards,

> >

> > michael

> >

>

> ^^^^^^^^^^^^

> ditto, michael my friend

>

> yosy (for real)

>

> Warmest regards,

>

> michael

>

***********

_()_

yosy

December 3, 2006

yes indeed, peter. thank you for your comments.

@}->'->,--

yosy

, "Peter" <not_2 wrote:

>

> Dear Michael and Yosy,

>

> Just to add a few thoughts along with your own (well, to your

initial ones,

> anyway).

>

> Along with the line of 'twice born' (Brahmin) and 'die before you

die'

> (sufi) there is another sufi saying - I'm not sure whether its

from Rumi or

> his nephew:

>

> 'Each person needs to be born twice,

> Once from their own mother,

> And then again from their own existence'

>

> Its interesting to reflect on this in relation to 'existence' as

Sat,

> Reality.

>

> The 'die before you die' resonates deeply, and of course there are

hints

> here of the death of ego (and hence ignorance0 being more important

than the

> death of the body.

>

> Jesus the Christ, embraces both the themes of birth and death:

>

> "..whosoever will lose his life for My sake, the same shall save

it." (Luke

> 9:23,24)

>

> In the Bhagavad Gita, Krishna informs us that or true nature is

beyond both

> birth and death.

>

> "Never is this One born, and never does It die; nor is it that

having come

> to exist, It will again cease to be.

> The One is birthless, eternal, undecaying, ancient.

> It is not killed when the body is killed" (Bh. Gita 2: 20)

>

> A few verses earlier we hear that not only is our real nature

beyond birth

> and death, but that which appears unreal has no real existence or

being at

> all.

>

> "Of the unreal there is no being; the real has no nonexistence.

> The nature of both of these, indeed, has been realised by the seers

of

> Truth." ( Bh. Gita 2: 16)

>

> Hence Ramana Maharshi spells it out even more clearly in the

following

> passage:

>

> "The fact is that there is neither birth nor death." (Talk 17)

>

> Regards,

>

> Peter

>

> "Experience is something you don't get until just after you need

it" (anon)

>

December 4, 2006

This topic has been discussed many times on this web site and the

content in the archives is recommended for perusal and study.

The essay was incomplete in my opinion as it fails to point out the

real difficulty in the west for such yoga practices - the lack of

controlled environments including a teacher competent to handle the

side effects on the part of the follower. In most cases in India there

is an enormous history of such practices and ashrams are established

where the practitioner is isolated usually from ordinary culture. It

is not a good thing to have a Kundalini Awakening experience in the

middle of downtown traffic. Such a person could easily end up in a

mental institution or hospital as the result of observers believing

that the person is having a psychotic break or an epileptic fit when

that is not what is happening at all.

We see many mature yogis and "gurus" who have come to the west and

been overcome with, as Ramakrisha pointed out, the effects of gold and

women. Abuses of followers are too numerous to mention here.

More importantly the "guide" must be competent to handle not only the

effects of KA but must be able to guide and support the student in

dealing with the student's "interpretation" of what has transpired,

and must be able to "stay with" the KA experiencer until they are

properly grounded to be able to function in the world. Ramana Maharshi

left to himself in the US for instance probably would have died

because there was no cultural understanding to even recognize his

accomplishment enough to feed, clothe and tend to his medical needs

until he stablized.

Let me give an example from a related cultus. I was present, living in

a boarding house in Washington DC and occupied by numereous students

of Scientology in the early day, when one of the advanced students

suddenly went completely "CLEAR". I was shocked to see him nude,

wandering the halls, babbling like an infant. He was "clear" all

right, his memory and consciousness had been wiped clean. This was in

the early days and now more is known of such things so the students

are more isolated from the modern world until they stabilize. In his

case he was quickly moved to a safe apartment area with senior members

who took care of him, but it was about ten days before he regained

speech and clothes. It was over a month before he could take care of

himself. Not every "Clear" went through the same "trip" the same way

but they realized that being "Clear" was not the goal, it was a step

in a process which has been defined in much better detail now.

I am not saying that KA would produce such an event, but it easily

could. The point is whatever the phenomena produced by KA it then must

be integrated into the continuing life of the person who must learn to

balance what has been awakened with what is to be lived in their life.

Let me give another and more controversial example: Rajneesh or as he

is now known Osho. He had a classic development and KA. He integrated

the results and had profound development which released great

knowledge and led to the establishment of a large movement - but ....

such knowledge and development did not mean balance, integration,

grounding or maturity. He became obsessed with "demonstrating" the

power of acquisition (17 or more Rolls Royces for instance just to

prove a point). He developed processess which lead to damage to

followers resulting in a requirement for serious medical attention;

and which also lead to the breakup of many marriages. He lost control

of his movement which ended up in the hands of violent and power-mad

senior lieutenants who tried to take over a whole city in Oregon,

threatened to lace the water supply with LSD, and who actually

poisoned Rajneesh.

The point: KA and resulting developments are not the end and goal, it

is a step in a process. Curiously and wisely I believe that Ramana

Maharshi intuitively recognized the problems and established a safer

process more suitable to the temper and culture of those in the west

and which leads to essentially the same place. The resulting

realizations may in fact lead to KA in a natural course without all

the potential drama associated with forcing techniques used without

proper controls. And the result is that one is led to essentially the

same place as the full KA process.

In short, KA can go several places: ego-mania, power domination,

knowledge without balance, love and bliss without grounding - OR it

can lead to spiritual maturity filled with LOVE beyond "little self"

and a life of benefit and blessing to self and others.

Kundalini is just Shakti awakened, and Shakti is just energy and

power; wisdom is required to direct it properly!

LOVE IS NOT ENOUGH - Wisdom is also required to express it well.

Namaste!

Layman John Logan

, Harsha wrote:

>

> Dear Friends,

>

> I have written a brief essay on the history of the notion of Kundalini

> Shakti in the West at www.luthar.com. Comments are welcome.

>

> Harsha

>

> --

>

December 4, 2006

_____

[]

On Behalf Of yosyx

Sunday, December 03, 2006 4:36 PM

Re: A Brief Essay on Kundalini

Shakti in teh west at- Luthar.com

@ <%40>

, "Michael Bowes"

<aumshanti wrote:

>

> _____

>

> @ <%40>

[@ <%40>

]

> On Behalf Of yosyx

> Saturday, December 02, 2006 10:36 AM

> @ <%40>

> Re: A Brief Essay on

Kundalini

> Shakti in teh west at- Luthar.com

>

> @ <%40>

> , "Michael Bowes"

> <aumshanti@> wrote:

> >

> > _____

> >

> > @ <%40>

>

> [@ <%40>

> ]

> > On Behalf Of yosyx

> > Friday, December 01, 2006 9:59 PM

> > @ <%40>

>

> > Re: A Brief Essay on

> Kundalini

> > Shakti in teh west at- Luthar.com

> >

> > @ <%40>

> > , "Michael Bowes"

> > <aumshanti@> wrote:

> > >

> > > _____

>

> > snip

> > > > Peace and Love,

> > > >

> > > > michael

> > > >

> > >

> > > _()_

> > > yosy

> > >

> >

> > yosy

> >

> > Warm regards,

> >

> > michael

> >

>

> ^^^^^^^^^^^^

> ditto, michael my friend

>

> yosy (for real)

>

> Warmest regards,

>

> michael

>

***********

_()_

yosy

mb writes: And there you have it ladies and gentlemen, the luminous

truths of spirituality explained in such a way that everyone can love them

and understand them.

;-)

Love and Peace,

michael

December 4, 2006

______

Michael Bowes [aumshanti (AT) cox (DOT) net]

Monday, December 04, 2006 1:35 AM

''

RE: A Brief Essay on Kundalini

Shakti in teh west at- Luthar.com

______

[]

On Behalf Of yosyx

Sunday, December 03, 2006 4:36 PM

Re: A Brief Essay on Kundalini

Shakti in teh west at- Luthar.com

, "Michael Bowes"

<aumshanti wrote:

>

> _____

>

[]

> On Behalf Of yosyx

> Saturday, December 02, 2006 10:36 AM

>

> Re: A Brief Essay on

Kundalini

> Shakti in teh west at- Luthar.com

>

> @ <%40>

> , "Michael Bowes"

> <aumshanti@> wrote:

> >

> > _____

> >

> > @ <%40>

>

> [@ <%40>

> ]

> > On Behalf Of yosyx

> > Friday, December 01, 2006 9:59 PM

> > @ <%40>

>

> > Re: A Brief Essay on

> Kundalini

> > Shakti in teh west at- Luthar.com

> >

> > @ <%40>

> > , "Michael Bowes"

> > <aumshanti@> wrote:

> > >

> > > _____

>

> > snip

> > > > Peace and Love,

> > > >

> > > > michael

> > > >

> > >

> > > _()_

> > > yosy

> > >

> >

> > yosy

> >

> > Warm regards,

> >

> > michael

> >

>

> ^^^^^^^^^^^^

> ditto, michael my friend

>

> yosy (for real)

>

> Warmest regards,

>

> michael

>

***********

_()_

Yosy

mb writes: And there you have it ladies and gentlemen, the luminous

truths of spirituality explained in such a way that everyone can love them

and understand them.

;-)

Love and Peace,

michael

December 4, 2006

A request to Michael and Yosy,

I appreciate some people aren't bothered by reading the last six mails of

replies just to get to the bottom of a mail where the sender eventually adds

a one liner, or in your two cases sometimes its only a " " My

preference would be if this were not the case, and for people to edit

replies, especially in Michael's last reply - of which the first half of

the repeats were *only* the message headers from the previous replies. At

least cut these off guys. Thanks.

I've left all of these message headers below, as I received them in the last

mail. In case what I have said isn't clear.

Best wishes,

Peter

==================================

______

Michael Bowes [aumshanti (AT) cox (DOT) net <aumshanti%40cox.net> ]

Monday, December 04, 2006 1:35 AM

'

<%27%40> '

RE: A Brief Essay on Kundalini

Shakti in teh west at- Luthar.com

______

<%40>

[

<%40> ]

On Behalf Of yosyx

Sunday, December 03, 2006 4:36 PM

<%40>

Re: A Brief Essay on Kundalini

Shakti in teh west at- Luthar.com

<%40> , "Michael Bowes"

<aumshanti wrote:

>

> _____

>

<%40>

[

<%40> ]

> On Behalf Of yosyx

> Saturday, December 02, 2006 10:36 AM

>

<%40>

> Re: A Brief Essay on

Kundalini

> Shakti in teh west at- Luthar.com

>

> @ <%40>

> , "Michael Bowes"

> <aumshanti@> wrote:

> >

> > _____

> >

> > @ <%40>

>

> [@ <%40>

> ]

> > On Behalf Of yosyx

> > Friday, December 01, 2006 9:59 PM

> > @ <%40>

>

> > Re: A Brief Essay on

> Kundalini

> > Shakti in teh west at- Luthar.com

> >

> > @ <%40>

> > , "Michael Bowes"

> > <aumshanti@> wrote:

> > >

> > > _____

>

> > snip

> > > > Peace and Love,

> > > >

> > > > michael

> > > >

> > >

> > > _()_

> > > yosy

> > >

> >

> > yosy

> >

> > Warm regards,

> >

> > michael

> >

>

> ^^^^^^^^^^^^

> ditto, michael my friend

>

> yosy (for real)

>

> Warmest regards,

>

> michael

>

***********

_()_

Yosy

mb writes: And there you have it ladies and gentlemen, the luminous

truths of spirituality explained in such a way that everyone can love them

and understand them.

;-)

Love and Peace,

michael

December 4, 2006

Dear Peter,

I left them there on purpose. I'm sorry that you were inconvenienced.

michael

_____

[]

On Behalf Of Peter

Monday, December 04, 2006 5:30 AM

RE: A Brief Essay on Kundalini

Shakti in teh west at- Luthar.com

A request to Michael and Yosy,

I appreciate some people aren't bothered by reading the last six mails of

replies just to get to the bottom of a mail where the sender eventually adds

a one liner, or in your two cases sometimes its only a " " My

preference would be if this were not the case, and for people to edit

replies, especially in Michael's last reply - of which the first half of

the repeats were *only* the message headers from the previous replies. At

least cut these off guys. Thanks.

I've left all of these message headers below, as I received them in the last

mail. In case what I have said isn't clear.

Best wishes,

Peter

==================================

______

Michael Bowes [aumshanti (AT) cox (DOT) <aumshanti%40cox.net> net

<aumshanti%40cox.net> ]

Monday, December 04, 2006 1:35 AM

'@ <%27%40>

<%27%40> '

RE: A Brief Essay on Kundalini

Shakti in teh west at- Luthar.com

______

@ <%40>

<%40>

[@ <%40>

<%40> ]

On Behalf Of yosyx

Sunday, December 03, 2006 4:36 PM

@ <%40>

<%40>

Re: A Brief Essay on Kundalini

Shakti in teh west at- Luthar.com

@ <%40>

<%40> , "Michael Bowes"

<aumshanti wrote:

>

> _____

>

> @ <%40>

<%40>

[@ <%40>

<%40> ]

> On Behalf Of yosyx

> Saturday, December 02, 2006 10:36 AM

> @ <%40>

<%40>

> Re: A Brief Essay on

Kundalini

> Shakti in teh west at- Luthar.com

>

> @ <%40>

> , "Michael Bowes"

> <aumshanti@> wrote:

> >

> > _____

> >

> > @ <%40>

>

> [@ <%40>

> ]

> > On Behalf Of yosyx

> > Friday, December 01, 2006 9:59 PM

> > @ <%40>

>

> > Re: A Brief Essay on

> Kundalini

> > Shakti in teh west at- Luthar.com

> >

> > @ <%40>

> > , "Michael Bowes"

> > <aumshanti@> wrote:

> > >

> > > _____

>

> > snip

> > > > Peace and Love,

> > > >

> > > > michael

> > > >

> > >

> > > _()_

> > > yosy

> > >

> >

> > yosy

> >

> > Warm regards,

> >

> > michael

> >

>

> ^^^^^^^^^^^^

> ditto, michael my friend

>

> yosy (for real)

>

> Warmest regards,

>

> michael

>

***********

_()_

Yosy

mb writes: And there you have it ladies and gentlemen, the luminous

truths of spirituality explained in such a way that everyone can love them

and understand them.

;-)

Love and Peace,

michael

December 4, 2006

, "Peter" <not_2 wrote:

>

> A request to Michael and Yosy,

>

> I appreciate some people aren't bothered by reading the last six

mails of

> replies just to get to the bottom of a mail where the sender

eventually adds

> a one liner, or in your two cases sometimes its only a " " My

> preference would be if this were not the case, and for people to

edit

> replies, especially in Michael's last reply - of which the first

half of

> the repeats were *only* the message headers from the previous

replies. At

> least cut these off guys. Thanks.

>

> I've left all of these message headers below, as I received them in

the last

> mail. In case what I have said isn't clear.

>

> Best wishes,

>

> Peter

> ==================================

>

yes, peter, you are right. i usually perform

a <courtesy snip> for this reason... but in the

present exchange it seemed to me that the

whole exchange is relevant to it's natural flow,

( included), and thus submitted you, friends,

to this slight inconvenience... and hope it

was worth the effort. i enjoyed this dance a lot.

(in spite of the repeated headers, which as an

afterthought could be easily cut indeed...)

thank you.

______

> Michael Bowes [aumshanti <aumshanti%

40cox.net> ]

>

> > >

> > > @ <%40>

> > > , "Michael Bowes"

> > > <aumshanti@> wrote:

> > > >

> > > > _____

> >

> > > snip

>

> > > > > Peace and Love,

> > > > >

> > > > > michael

> > > > >

> > > >

> > > > _()_

> > > > yosy

> > > >

> > >

> > > yosy

> > >

> > > Warm regards,

> > >

> > > michael

> > >

> >

> > ^^^^^^^^^^^^

> > ditto, michael my friend

> >

> > yosy (for real)

> >

> > Warmest regards,

> >

> > michael

> >

>

> ***********

>

> _()_

> Yosy

>

> mb writes: And there you have it ladies and gentlemen, the

luminous

> truths of spirituality explained in such a way that everyone can

love them

> and understand them.

>

> ;-)

>

> Love and Peace,

> michael

>

A Brief Essay on Kundalini Shakti in teh west at- Luthar.com

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