krsna Posted December 2, 2006 Report Share Posted December 2, 2006 Tamal Krsna Goswami Murti Manifest by Rasik das on chakra.org Posted November 28, 2006 "He reasons ill who says that vaisnavas die Whilst thou art living still in sound! They die to live and in living try To spread the Holy Name around!" To honor the passing of this great vaisnava, as well as to offer solace to his devoted disciples, we are pleased to announce that the murti form of Tamal Krsna Goswami has finally manifest. Being requested by some of his disciples, we have just finished producing this sculpture of remarkable likeness in expression and features. Some disciples have already received their murti and feel themselves once again reunited with their gurudeva. Photos can be emailed upon request. Those interested in ordering a murti are invited to contact us at: rasiksekdas@ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shakti-Fan Posted December 2, 2006 Report Share Posted December 2, 2006 I'm sorry, but I just can't handle this. I don't believe that TKG was qualified to be put in a "samadhi" next to Srila Prabhupada. How do you spell rigamortis. Rigamortis: RIGAMORTIS. Rigamortis then no samadhi. No samadhi then no murti. Sorry but reality defeats fantasy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guruvani Posted December 2, 2006 Report Share Posted December 2, 2006 Where will it end? Before it's over there will be a hundred samadhis of ISKCON gurus covering the samadhi of Srila Prabhupada. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beggar Posted December 2, 2006 Report Share Posted December 2, 2006 In 1986 the GBC came within a fraction of an inch (or a few centimeters) of ousting the remaining members of the Original 11 Appointed Guru Club. If there was perhaps one more vote in that way then we there would have been no question that Tamal would be in such a "samadhi". This is a clear indication that ISKCON never had the courage to fully break with the travesty of the 11 gurus. This enabled the legacy of hypocrisy and corruption to continue on and it is still going on. All the leaders in ISKCON including the so-called reformers have become tainted by this. Their only hope is to strongly speak out about these things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guruvani Posted December 2, 2006 Report Share Posted December 2, 2006 One of the BIGGEST issues in ISKCON today is also Jayapataka Swami setting on a throne in Mayapur. the GBC needs to get him off that throne back down to Earth where he belongs. Talk about the residue from zonal acharya days? Jayapataka in Mayapura is the king of zonal acharyas and is alive and well. Clearly, he makes followers just with the image he projects setting on that throne in Mayapur Chandrodaya Mandir. He creates followers with image instead of substance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suchandra Posted December 2, 2006 Report Share Posted December 2, 2006 One of the BIGGEST issues in ISKCON today is also Jayapataka Swami setting on a throne in Mayapur.the GBC needs to get him off that throne back down to Earth where he belongs. Talk about the residue from zonal acharya days? Jayapataka in Mayapura is the king of zonal acharyas and is alive and well. Clearly, he makes followers just with the image he projects setting on that throne in Mayapur Chandrodaya Mandir. He creates followers with image instead of substance. But isnt that all locked down in the ISKCON constitution? How and by whom new GBC members are appointed or in case someone deviated - by whose vote a GBC man is replaced? What about when the whole GBC board is not any more following the precise ISKCON constitution, who is supposed to correct that situation? How can it be that the GBC board has whatsoever no implemented control-instance? If this is actually the case this is a quite questionable system which can be clearly labeled as totalitarian dictatorship and such a system should be brought to the attention of human rights orgs as highly susceptible to corruption and be changed so that GBC members have to be elected/re-elected approx. every third year by the temple presidents who themselves are elected by the temple members. Wasnt this the main reason for inventing the election systems because in kali-yuga 99% of totalitarian leaders are unqualified and cheat their own people? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guruvani Posted December 2, 2006 Report Share Posted December 2, 2006 But isnt that all locked down in the ISKCON constitution? How and by whom new GBC members are appointed or in case someone deviated - by whose vote a GBC man is replaced? What about when the whole GBC board is not any more following the precise ISKCON constitution, who is supposed to correct that situation? How can it be that the GBC board has whatsoever no implemented control-instance? If this is actually the case this is a quite questionable system which can be clearly labeled as totalitarian dictatorship and such a system should be brought to the attention of human rights orgs as highly susceptible to corruption and be changed so that GBC members have to be elected/re-elected approx. every third year by the temple presidents who themselves are elected by the temple members. Wasnt this the main reason for inventing the election systems because in kali-yuga 99% of totalitarian leaders are unqualified and cheat their own people? I think you answered your own question there and the point is of strategic importance in getting ISKCON reformed and functional again. These points are the life of ISKCON dynamics. Without this process and system, then we end up with tyrants and despots in control of ISKCON. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suchandra Posted December 3, 2006 Report Share Posted December 3, 2006 I think you answered your own question there and the point is of strategic importance in getting ISKCON reformed and functional again.These points are the life of ISKCON dynamics. Without this process and system, then we end up with tyrants and despots in control of ISKCON. I never saw the original text written by Prabhupada, anyone has the link? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theist Posted December 3, 2006 Report Share Posted December 3, 2006 Too much iconography I think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guruvani Posted December 3, 2006 Report Share Posted December 3, 2006 For sure, Murti worship should be reserved for siddha bhaktas, not for sadhakas with very controversial issues surrounding them. This is just another thing to foster contempt and controversy within the Krishna consciousness movement and there is already too much of that going around already. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theist Posted December 3, 2006 Report Share Posted December 3, 2006 Guruvani, Now all the other disciples of their gurus are probably going to feel they have to do this to keep up. I hope not but.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guruvani Posted December 3, 2006 Report Share Posted December 3, 2006 Guruvani,Now all the other disciples of their gurus are probably going to feel they have to do this to keep up. I hope not but.... and it is only fair that other disciples of other ISKCON gurus be allowed the same standard. so, that is why it should never have been allowed to happen in the first place. if it is good for one then it is good for all. they should remove the murti to some other place, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 3, 2006 Report Share Posted December 3, 2006 Remove from where? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beggar Posted December 3, 2006 Report Share Posted December 3, 2006 ...they should remove the murti to some other place, Do you mean that they should remove the "samadhi"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guruvani Posted December 4, 2006 Report Share Posted December 4, 2006 Do you mean that they should remove the "samadhi"? I think they should. Sadhaka devotees should not be given the honor of siddhas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 4, 2006 Report Share Posted December 4, 2006 I think they should. Sadhaka devotees should not be given the honor of siddhas. apani achari dharma apare sikhao eita sidhanta gita bhagabate kaya heeeee u people talking this thing why why how meny round u chantting a day .and talking about qalifaed not qalifaed .this is not ur duty .dont make more ofense and just chant .hari boll purandara108@ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 4, 2006 Report Share Posted December 4, 2006 I'm sorry, but I just can't handle this. I don't believe that TKG was qualified to be put in a "samadhi" next to Srila Prabhupada. How do you spell rigamortis. Rigamortis: RIGAMORTIS. Rigamortis then no samadhi. No samadhi then no murti. Sorry but reality defeats fantasy. baisnav aparadha is very very denger dont do this muslim people kiling cow they are more better then u becase they never duing baisnav aparadha hari boll purandaracharya@.co.in Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kulapavana Posted December 4, 2006 Report Share Posted December 4, 2006 the entire guru murti business has a very weak shastric base. if you look at how our tradition makes a distinction between idolatry and the worship of the Lord in his arca vigraha it is quite plain that guru murti worship is on a slippery slope to idolatry. the story of the thread is a perfect illustration of that problem. our tradition (Jiva Goswami's Bhakti-sandarbha) justifies the worship of guru's shoes on the left side of the Deity, not the worship of guru's murti form. there are some exceptions (like the murti of Ramanujacharya where - according to tradition - acharya Ramanuja invested his potency, but these are exceedingly rare prior to modern times. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beggar Posted December 4, 2006 Report Share Posted December 4, 2006 the entire guru murti business has a very weak shastric base. if you look at how our tradition makes a distinction between idolatry and the worship of the Lord in his arca vigraha it is quite plain that guru murti worship is on a slippery slope to idolatry. the story of the thread is a perfect illustration of that problem. our tradition (Jiva Goswami's Bhakti-sandarbha) justifies the worship of guru's shoes on the left side of the Deity, not the worship of guru's murti form. there are some exceptions (like the murti of Ramanujacharya where - according to tradition - acharya Ramanuja invested his potency, but these are exceedingly rare prior to modern times. One time I was in an ISKCON community and I was at a householders home. The lady who had young children was chastising her naked 2 yr old son. She stood there with one of her feet squarely planted on top of a picture of Krsna which was on the cover of BTG. (There were BTGs and "Krsna" coloring books all over the floor) She yelled at her son, "Oh Prabhu what are you doing you rascal! Quantity vs quality. Next in the year 2025, 100 murtis of ISKCON gurus in every ISKCON temple. the rule: One man one vote and every deceased guru must have a murti in every ISKCON temple. What's to stop it? The princible is already established. The precedent is already there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kulapavana Posted December 4, 2006 Report Share Posted December 4, 2006 Next in the year 2025, 100 murtis of ISKCON gurus in every ISKCON temple. the rule: One man one vote and every deceased guru must have a murti in every ISKCON temple. What's to stop it? The princible is already established. The precedent is already there. it gives me no pleasure to speak against what many see as a "proper glorification" of one's guru, but we are entering a completely uncharted territory. you will find no reference whatsoever to guru murti worship in the shastras, but there are literally thousands of references to Lord Vishnu's murti worship all over the shastras. it is bad enough that many people on the outside view the elaborate worship of gurus in our temples as a typical symptom of a cult mentality - add the guru murti dimension to it and we are way out there on the fringe of respectable spirituality. because our GV tradition places so much emphasis on emotional and personal justifications, devotees have no problem stretching the philosophy and extrapolating new "siddhanta" out of traditional knowledge, especially if the precedent - or what they see as precedent - is established by a contemporary guru. that is a real problem for us Gaudiyas. apasidhantas galore... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theist Posted December 4, 2006 Report Share Posted December 4, 2006 [url="http://chakra.org/announcements/devoteeads.html"] by Rasik das on chakra.org Posted November 28, 2006 To honor the passing of this great vaisnava, as well as to offer solace to his devoted disciples, we are pleased to announce that the murti form of Tamal Krsna Goswami has finally manifest. Being requested by some of his disciples, we have just finished producing this sculpture of remarkable likeness in expression and features. Some disciples have already received their murti and feel themselves once again reunited with their gurudeva. One should feel united with his guru through the vani of that guru. Not this "buy a murti and then feel united" business. And business is a word worth considering. I don't believe the merchant mentality has any place in such an area as this, and I do believe that is what is happening. I could be wrong but I am such a cynic I can't help but project a dismall future for this type of activity. Next there may be people making the murti mold in advance anticipating the passing of the other guru's. You know like newspapers have premade bio's and obituaries ready for the press the moment some big man dies. I think better to keep a nice picture of your teacher and emphasize the continued connection through his teachings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hari Bhakta dasa Posted December 4, 2006 Report Share Posted December 4, 2006 Srila Prabhupada gave permission for his murti to be placed in the temples. "The photos of my murti are very nice. The murti of the Spiritual Master should be treated as good as the Deity. Saksad-dharitvena samasta-sastrair, uktas tatha bhavyata eva sadbhih/kintu prabhor yah priya eva tasya, The guru should be treated as good as God. This is stated in all the sastras. The difference is that God is master-God and guru is servant-God. So the installation ceremony for such a murti should be similar to that done for other Deities. All Temples can have this Deity if they like." Srila Prabhupada letter Mayapur, January 29, 1976 Did he ever give permission for others to do the same? Did he even give permission for the pictures of these other gurus to be placed on the altars? I find this whole thing most distressing. So many deviations, so many changes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kulapavana Posted December 4, 2006 Report Share Posted December 4, 2006 Did he ever give permission for others to do the same? Did he even give permission for the pictures of these other gurus to be placed on the altars? these are interesting points, but the principles of verification of anyone's activity is guru, sadhu, and shastra. that is what sets legitimate Vaishnava sampradayas apart from the rest of the "guru crowd" India is famous for. If you are willing to give that up for an exceptionally powerful acharya, you enter the slippery slope of unverified activities becoming part of the tradition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sanatan Posted December 4, 2006 Report Share Posted December 4, 2006 I heard from a reliable source that Tamal Krishna Maharaja stated specifically in his written will and related instructions that no murtis of himself were to be offered for public sale or displayed in public after his passing. Even though his death was sudden, he had survived a very serious operation for prostate cancer a couple of years before and had written his will and other final wishes at that time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 4, 2006 Report Share Posted December 4, 2006 Next in the year 2025, 100 murtis of ISKCON gurus in every ISKCON temple. the rule: One man one vote and every deceased guru must have a murti in every ISKCON temple. What's to stop it? The princible is already established. The precedent is already there. Actually, it's against ISKCON law for there to be a murti of any other Guru besides Srila Prabhupada installed in the temple (except one exception which was already installed before the passing of the law). The murti is there for the disciples of Tamal Krishna Goswami, not for the general public. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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