Krishan competing with himself?

[AncientMariner]

The question that I can never completely understand in regards to Krishna Consciousness is Sankaraacarya was Lord Siva incarnated with the mission to fool the people to create unwanted population to basically begin the Kali-yuga. The ultimate culmination of the Kali-yuga is the incarnation of the Kalki-avatar some 432,000 years later. Krishna incarnated to spread the maha mantra to give people relief from the Kali-yuga and ultimately Prabhupada appeared to renew this very same mission. My question is on some level does Krishna block the Krishna Consciousness movement from becoming too successful because if it became too successful wouldn't that effectively end the Kali-yuga and make the incarnation of the Kalki-avatar unnecessary?

[Guest guest]

 

The question that I can never completely understand in regards to Krishna Consciousness is Sankaraacarya was Lord Siva incarnated with the mission to fool the people to create unwanted population to basically begin the Kali-yuga. The ultimate culmination of the Kali-yuga is the incarnation of the Kalki-avatar some 432,000 years later. Krishna incarnated to spread the maha mantra to give people relief from the Kali-yuga and ultimately Prabhupada appeared to renew this very same mission. My question is on some level does Krishna block the Krishna Consciousness movement from becoming too successful because if it became too successful wouldn't that effectively end the Kali-yuga and make the incarnation of the Kalki-avatar unnecessary?

 

WOW - interesting question. Any pandits out there who can answer this? I would like to know the answer too. Thanks.

[Gaea]

 

The question that I can never completely understand in regards to Krishna Consciousness is Sankaraacarya was Lord Siva incarnated with the mission to fool the people to create unwanted population to basically begin the Kali-yuga.

 

what do you mean, to create an "unwanted" population?

[Guest guest]

 

The question that I can never completely understand in regards to Krishna Consciousness is Sankaraacarya was Lord Siva incarnated with the mission to fool the people to create unwanted population to basically begin the Kali-yuga.

 

I have never read that Sankaraacarya was on a mission to create unwanted progeny. I always read and thought that Sankaraacarya came to bring the Buddhis majority back to the vedas through a similar concept, maybe not the whole leap for a personal God, but to atleast bring them back to the vedas.

[Hari Bhakta dasa]

Can you please provide the reference to Shankaracarya's mission being to fool people into creating unwanted progeny?

 

My understanding is that Shankaracarya's mission was to trick people back to the Vedas and to the understanding that they needed to take shelter of Lord Krishna's lotus feet. At that time Buddhism was taking over India.

 

Shankaracarya's followers have twisted his teachings to suit their needs....sound familiar.

[bhaktidd]

I remember asking something like this question of HH Tamal Krishna Gosvami, in I think 1982, Mayapur. "If due to Lord Caitanya's movement all living entities return back to Godhead, what is the need for Lord Kalki to come? He answered that Lord Kalki will just appear in another universe, and is not going to miss our universe when it is liberated. It's like one grain of sand on a beach of countless universes.

[bhaktidd]

Re: the need or purpose of Shankaracarya's advent. Lord Krsna always and only gives us exactly what we ask for. The problem is: we are not aware of HOW it is that we are asking, and then we are surprised when it shows up. The way I see it is that not a blade of grass moves without the sanction of the Lord, and everything has its purpose. Because some living entities have a need to be confused, Lord Krsna will provide them with a teacher who will confuse them.

[bhaktidd]

Why Does Lord Krsna always give us what we want? He created us to have a loving relationship with Him. Loving relationship means it must be voluntary. For it to be voluntary we must have a choice.

[bhaktidd]

And so the only relationship we have IS with Krsna, played out in our relationships with others and the choices we make. Lord Krsna lovingly and abundantly supplies us with all and more than what we need. It is only our consciousness, our choice in denying Him which cuts us off from His supply of Love and abundance in any area.

[bhaktidd]

You cannot enjoy separately from Krsna, (I do not mean the usual conception of this: if you don't surrender to Krsna He's going to give you a hard time), but I mean, IT IS NOT POSSIBLE to enjoy (good or bad) separate from Krsna, because EVERYTHING YOU ENJOY - good AND bad - you enjoy (experience) because of Him, because you asked Him for it and He is supplying it according to your consciousness.

[bhaktidd]

And so the appearance of Shankaracarya is also due to the need and asking of various living entities who want what he has to offer. This is true in every universal cycle.

[AncientMariner]

 

I have never read that Sankaraacarya was on a mission to create unwanted progeny. I always read and thought that Sankaraacarya came to bring the Buddhis majority back to the vedas through a similar concept, maybe not the whole leap for a personal God, but to atleast bring them back to the vedas.

 

 

It says in the introduction in Srila Prabhupada's Srimad Bhagavatam First Canto Part One, page 25 in my book:

 

"The Lord further added that the Mayavada philosophy taught by Sripada Sankaraacarya is an imaginary explanation of the Vedas, but it had to be taught by him (Sankaraacarya) because he was ordered to teach it by the Personality of Godhead. In the Padma Purana it is stated that the Personality of Godhead ordered His Lordship Siva to deviate the human race from Him (the Personality of Godhead). The Personality of Godhead was to be covered so that people would be encouraged to generate more and more population. His Lordship Siva said to Devi: "In the Kali-yuga, I shall preach the Mayavada philosophy, which is nothing but clouded Buddhism, in the garb of a brahmana."

 

I guess technically it doesn't say it creates unwanted population but I am assuming since nearly 99% of the people born in the Kali-yuga don't undergo that spiritual cleansing ceremony basically everyone in the Kali-yuga is unwanted population of course I could be wrong on that, don't know for sure. But here is a description of the people of the Kali yuga provided by Prabhupada:

 

 

Bhaktivedanta VedaBase: Śrīmad Bhāgavatam 1.18.45

tadārya-dharmaḥ pravilīyate nṛṇāḿ

varṇāśramācāra-yutas trayīmayaḥ

tato 'rtha-kāmābhiniveśitātmanāḿ

śunāḿ kapīnām iva varṇa-sańkaraḥ

SYNONYMS

tadā — at that time; ārya — progressive civilization; dharmaḥ — engagement; pravilīyate — is systematically vanquished; nṛṇām — of humankind; varṇa — caste; āśrama — orders of society; ācāra-yutaḥ — composed in a good manner; trayī-mayaḥ — in terms of the Vedic injunction; tataḥ — thereafter; artha — economic development; kāma-abhiniveśita — fully absorbed in sense gratification; ātmanām — of men; śunām — like dogs; kapīnām — like monkeys; iva — thus; varṇa-sańkaraḥ — unwanted population.

 

TRANSLATION

At that time the people in general will fall systematically from the path of a progressive civilization in respect to the qualitative engagements of the castes and the orders of society and the Vedic injunctions. Thus they will be more attracted to economic development for sense gratification, and as a result there will be an unwanted population on the level of dogs and monkeys.

 

PURPORT

It is foretold herein that in the absence of a monarchical regime, the general mass of people will be an unwanted population like dogs and monkeys. As the monkeys are too sexually inclined and dogs are shameless in sexual intercourse, the general mass of population born of illegitimate connection will systematically go astray from the Vedic way of good manners and qualitative engagements in the castes and orders of life.

 

The Vedic way of life is the progressive march of the civilization of the Āryans. The Āryans are progressive in Vedic civilization. The Vedic civilization's destination is to go back to Godhead, back home, where there is no birth, no death, no old age and no disease. The Vedas direct everyone not to remain in the darkness of the material world but to go towards the light of the spiritual kingdom far beyond the material sky. The qualitative caste system and the orders of life are scientifically planned by the Lord and His representatives, the great ṛṣis. The perfect way of life gives all sorts of instruction in things both material and spiritual. The Vedic way of life does not allow any man to be like the monkeys and dogs. A degraded civilization of sense gratification and economic development is the by-product of a godless or kingless government of the people, by the people, and for the people. The people should not, therefore, begrudge the poor administrations they themselves elect.

[bhaktidd]

I guess then the real question would be: Why would Lord Krsna want to cause Lord Shiva, as Shankaracarya, to delude people so that unwanted progeny comes as a result of that? Why would Krsna want to create unwanted progeny?

[bhaktidd]

And the answer would have to be: because there are always souls who fall down to this material existence in order to deny Krsna, so that they can attempt to enjoy, thinking themselves to be the cause of their enjoyment. So there needs to be unwanted progeny to accommodate the variety of these souls' consciousness.

[bhaktidd]

my question is: what makes you think Krsna is blocking Himself?

[Gaea]

 

Hindus have come to believe that they will be saved (given Moksha) simply by doing Japas etc. They have lost fear of bad karma.

 

Hindus, or i think you're more specifically talking about Vaishanavas believe they will be saved by loving God and having faith. I truly hope they don't think its simply 16 rounds a day. Also, losing fear of bad karma is a good thing but only if you're placing it all at the feet of God. Basically the lesson is this: Love God with all your heart and soul. Do your duty and leave the result to Him. If Prabhupada has managed to teach this to at least one person, be he in the west or india, then some civislisation has been brought to the world.

[AncientMariner]

 

my question is: what makes you think Krsna is blocking Himself?

 

 

Looks like some posts from this topic have been removed. But in one of them I think finally found the answer to my question through the supersoul or something but it finally makes sense to me at least this answer does. Krishna isn't blocking the success of the Krishna Consciousness Movement. He knows the Kalki-avatar is going to come because he knows all of the desires etc. of all the jivas incarnating in the Kali-yuga and he realizes that the majority of them are going to either ignore or oppose the Krishna Consciousness movement so eventually despite the good efforts of all past and future acaryas the human population is going to become so degraded that the Kalki-avatar will eventually become necessary no matter what happens.