Official Ramakanta vs. IRM discussion thread

[Guest guest]

Dear Yaduraja Prabhu, PAMHO. AGTSP!

 

 

> You ask an intelligent question at last:

 

Why did I have to ask it three times until you realized that it is an

intelligent question?

 

 

> > Is the initiation ceremony the initiation itself?

>

> No, it is a formality that marks the beginning of the process of diksa

> which may take many lifetimes,

 

Then why do you conclude

 

'for the initiation (not the initiation ceremony) the physical presence of

the diksa guru is not required'

 

from

 

'the diksa guru does not have to be physically present at the initiation

ceremony'?

 

And please at once back up by a quote your claim that diksa is a process

which may take many lifetimes.

 

 

> "Diksa actually means *initiating* a disciple *with transcendental

> knowledge* by which he becomes freed from all material contamination."

> (Madhya-lila, 4:112, Purport)

 

This is not the only definition of diksa given by Srila Prabhupada. Another

definition is for example:

 

"So diksa means the initiation to begin transcendental activities." (SB

6.1.15, lecture, Feb 22, 1973)

 

Do you really think you can learn the science of initiation simply by

reading some statements here and there without the guidance of a spiritual

master who can correct you if you misunderstood it?

 

 

> ‘Does the spiritual master have to be physically present to impart

> ‘transcendental knowledge’- the definition of diksa’?

 

Please at once back up by a quote your claim that the definition of diksa is

to impart transcendental knowledge. Srila Prabhupada did no use the term

"impart knowledge" in connection with diksa. Therefore I remove "the

definition of diksa" from your question.

 

Yes, the spiritual master has to be physically present in the material

universe to impart transcendental knowledge. (You also said this.)

 

 

> Obviously if he did then none of Srila Prabhupada’s original disciples

> have had a diksa guru for nearly 30 years.

 

Generally, whenever you use a word like "clearly", "obviously",

"undoubtedly", then it is speculation. These words are often used when

something is unclear and doubtful, but the author simply doesn't know how to

make the point convincingly.

 

 

> So do you accept that Srila Prabhupada can still impart ‘transcendental

> knowledge’ to disciples, yes or no will be fine?

 

This question has nothing to do with initiation (see above). So the question

should be "can Srila Prabhupada still *initiate* a disciple [on this planet]

with 'transcendental knowledge'?"

 

I don't know if Srila Prabhupada is currently physically present on the

earth in another body.

 

 

So far you did not present one single statement by Srila Prabhupada

explicitly saying that for the initiation the physical presence of the diksa

guru is not required, as you claim.

 

And you are unable to answer several questions.

 

So who is defeated?

 

Just one more question: Why did Narottama das Thakur not take initiation

from Rupa Gosvami?

 

 

ys Ramakanta dasa