Karma...

[Guest guest]

I have been reading Srila Prabhupada's books. He states that karma from a past life will effect our next life. My question is one regarding child abuse. This question also has been a source of debate for the child abuse claims against ISKCON. When a child or children are physically, sexually or emotionally abused, would Prabhupada and Krishna consciousness outright blaim the child for karma from his/her past life? This question is essential for my further interest in Krishna consciousness. Please respond.

[Guruvani]

 

I have been reading Srila Prabhupada's books. He states that karma from a past life will effect our next life. My question is one regarding child abuse. This question also has been a source of debate for the child abuse claims against ISKCON. When a child or children are physically, sexually or emotionally abused, would Prabhupada and Krishna consciousness outright blaim the child for karma from his/her past life? This question is essential for my further interest in Krishna consciousness. Please respond.

 

 

Really though, we have to look at things from a perspective that God works in mysterious ways and many times put his devotees into suffering, painful and trying situations for the purpose of purifying them.

In that case, many things that happen to people, souls or devotees is not really KARMA as much as it is the mercy of God trying wrench us free from the material attachment.

 

Maybe these were devotees in their past lives that had to come back because of material attachment and Krishna put them in this situation to spoil their attempts at enjoying this material body in this material world.

 

So, karma?

It doesn't have to be.

It might very well just be the causeless mercy of the Lord that many times comes in a very bitter pill.

 

My guess is that they just got a very painful lesson in the futility of resisting the mercy of Krishna.

It wasn't karma.

It was the mercy of the Lord, as hard to understand as this might be.

[theist]

 

I have been reading Srila Prabhupada's books. He states that karma from a past life will effect our next life. My question is one regarding child abuse. This question also has been a source of debate for the child abuse claims against ISKCON. When a child or children are physically, sexually or emotionally abused, would Prabhupada and Krishna consciousness outright blaim the child for karma from his/her past life? This question is essential for my further interest in Krishna consciousness. Please respond.

Karma is involved in everything. I was emotionally abused by my parents who even neglected to give me proper meals as I grew up. I still carry some scars from that period but now as an adult I can see Krsna's grace in that I have no familial attachments at all in this world. We need to see the whole picture and that is difficult.

 

But just because karma is involved is no excuse for the offender. The offender had that desire, the victim had that karma and Supersoul brought them together. The victim has now paid on his karmic debt while the offender has built a future of abuse for himself.

 

This principle is true in every facet of life, a cause generates an effect which becomes a cause bringing on another effect. Like a chain with iron links binding us to this world of birth and death.

 

Such an offender must be punished by the state and citizens must be protected from the offender. As mere humans we are not in a position to excuse anyone's atrocities on another as "just karma". We leave those considerations to the big boys who work with karmic results and we stick to the human side of things.

 

Please don't make any decisions on if to advance in Krsna consciousness or not on the basis of the scandalous actions of a few demons dressed up as holy men. Just because a wolf may enter to flock dressed as a sheep is no reason not to join or remain in the flock. It's the wolves that must be run off.

[bhaktidd]

 

Really though, we have to look at things from a perspective that God works in mysterious ways and many times put his devotees into suffering, painful and trying situations for the purpose of purifying them.

 

Dear Guruvani, it is preaching like this, which I have heard many times throughout my 27 years as an initiated ISKCON devotee, which confuses devotees and makes them feel like they have no control over what's going to happen to them when they surrender to Krsna.

 

"If I surrender to Krsna, He might make something really terrible happen to me, just to purify me. So maybe I'd better not surrender to Him."

 

Lord Krsna only and always gives us exactly what we ask for. The only problem is, we don't know how it is that we are doing our "asking".

 

Lord Krsna says, "as they surrender to Me, I reward them accordingly".

Therein lies the answer of our asking.

 

Our ONLY relationship is with Krsna. We can either accept Him or reject Him, and all we receive is due to grades of our acceptance or rejection.

 

When devotees use terminology like: "mysterious ways", it makes it sound like Lord Krsna did something to the living entity which was not in direct relationship to how the living entity related to the Lord. This is actually against Krsna's own teachings.

 

We surrender to Krsna with our consciousness, with our prana, our very being. That is why Krsna says: "Whatever state of being one remembers when he quits his body, that state he will attain without fail."

 

So the answer is that Krsna is not punishing anyone, if there is any punishing to be done, you have asked for it previously (perhaps in a past life) through your consciousness. In effect you are punishing yourself. The only thing Lord Krsna can be "accused" of, is setting the whole system in place, other than that, we do it to ourselves.

 

This in no way can excuse anyone for performing atrocious activities upon others. One cannot consider oneself Krsna's agent, and use that as an excuse to cause others to suffer.

 

And it is not that we become callous, and say: "oh well, he/she had it coming to him/her".

 

Yes, it is Krsna's mercy that we are in an eternal relationship with Him. But He does NOT cause our suffering. We do.

In fact, He promises us shelter:

"Abandon all varieties of religion and just surrender unto Me. I shall deliver you from all sinful reactions. Do not fear."

 

So here He promises us that when we fully surrender to Him, knowing Him to be the source of our existence and the supplier of all our needs, He takes away the reactions of all our consciousness mess-ups.

 

He doesn't say: "surrender unto Me and I'll make sure that I'll give you some suffering so you can be purified", He says: "I will reward you accordingly."

 

That means:

if I relate to God by expressing envy in any of my dealings with anyone (remember our ONLY relationship is with Him, also played out through our relationships with others), He will return our envy with situations through which we will have to again experience envy of others.

 

...an eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth...

 

that's why: violence begets violence,

hate begets hate, feeling like a victim begets more feeling like a victim, feelings of lack produce more lack,

 

BUT if I surrender with Love, He returns Love.

 

If we study the gita carefully, we come to understand that God, Krsna, has established a Perfect and Fair system of existence.

 

There IS NO mystery, there IS NO guess work.

It is all very clear.

And that's why the learned sage is peaceful.

He/She is totally at peace, knowing that all is just the way it is supposed to be. There is no more of this: "Why did God do this to me?" stuff, because you will know that Krsna only and ALWAYS gives us exactly what we have asked for in our vibrations.

 

What you VIBRATE (in your state of being, your consciousness) is REPAID.

[theist]

I am contemplating the idea that within the often painful and confusing karmic reactions to our past lies Krsna's grace and our problem is in how we receive it.

 

The example from my own childhood is my example (miserable, horrible dysfuntional parents etc.) has forced me to be more dependent on Krsna.

 

Now there is a lower nature way of experiencing this which is to be filled with resentment and anger (which I have been most of my life and traces yet linger) towards my parents and let my consciousness stew in that miserable condition.

 

Or take the higher natures perception that sees the hand of God behind everything. And as Krsna is all good and the Supreme Benfactor and Well Wisher of everyone if His hand is in it then His grace must be also.

 

The more of Krsna's grace I can perceive the less anger and resentment I feel which allows me to learn forgiveness. Anger and resentment do not sit in the same heart along side forgiveness.

 

As we forgive we let go of the attachments of attraction and aversion. This also frees me from the need to play out anymore future life drama's where I am the bad parent and they are my unforunate children.

 

Forgiveness is in my own best interest. And how can I sincerely expect the Lord to forgive me if I am unwillingly to forgive others as well.

 

So I have the great oppurtunity of learning forgiveness placed upon me and placed there by the grace of Krsna. How could I learn this if I had no reason to forgive anyone? It is a hard and painful lesson.

 

Krsna's Grace does not always come in the form of giant plate of Mahaprasadam. That is always Grace but there are other forms. Krsna says if His devotee is too attached to money He will take it away so His devotee surrenders more and more. That is painful but certainly grace.

 

It is just so much harder to accept in our own lives than in a verse from the Bhagavatam but what happens in our own lives is where the real lessons take place and the verses in the scripture are there to enlighten us as to how we can go through it all in a Krsna conscious fashion.