Sri Guru is Always Manifested

[Guest guest]

 

Duh, like Sridhar Maharaja had his own ritvik system for several years and appointed his successor as ritvik in his official declaration of spiritual succession on Gaura Purnima 1986.

 

Not so long ago this ritvic system that Srila Govinda Maharaj was performing on behalf of Srila Sridhara Maharaj was FOREVER according to KB now it appears it has changed to a few years.

 

Slip of the tongue or change of conception?

It takes a humble adjusted man to admit he was wrong.

But a wise man to admit he is ignorant.

[Guest guest]

By using 'intelligence' to see that this ritvik system is just not the process for continuation of parampara.

 

Giving up being envious of the sincere & great Vaisnavas would help too!

 

 

The real question is how can anyone claim to be a fan of Sridhar Maharaja and NOT be a ritvik proponent?

[Guest guest]

The answer is very simple. What Sridhara Maharaja meant by ritvik and what you espouse are entirely different things. Post the whole declaration so Sridhara Maharaja's words and thoughts are clear to everyone. Govinda Maharaja was installed as the acharya of the matha and all initiates are his disciples, not Sridhara Maharaja's, which is according to the direct will of Sridhara Maharaja.

 

The last time I checked most ritvik proponents, including yourself, have the idea that the ritvik is an officiating priest that serves to perform the functional rituals, but the disciples view themselves not as the disciple of the ritvik, but rather of the ritviks Guru's. That is what is bogus and apasiddhantic.

[Guest guest]

The bold use of Vapuvadhi and the like doesn't nessacarily endear you to your readers nor the trashing of devotees who are diong what you may never be able to do ...24/7 seva . These devotees that follow Srila Sridhara Maharaj's express wish (Vani )to serve Srila Govinda Maharaj in Sri Chaitanya Saraswat Math are only living in their Gurus instruction. To criticise that is suicide, regardless of the adhikara of some those aspiring servitors.

 

If you are so convinced that Vaphu is of little value why did Srila Sridhara Maharaj say of Srila Prabhupad, "that wherever you are that is Vrndavan"

Doesn't that also imply that Krsna is there also, so why wouldn't devotees want to be around such a soul?

 

saksad-dharitvena samasta-sastrair uktas tatha bhavyata eva sadbhih

kintu prabhor yah priya eva tasya vande guroh sri-caranaravindam

 

"The guru is to be honored as much as the Supreme Lord because he is the most confidential servitor of the Lord. This is acknowledged in all revealed scriptures and followed by all authorities. Therefore, I offer my respectful obeisances unto the lotus feet of Sri Gurudeva."

[Guest guest]

Sridhara Maharaja gave two reasons for not wanting to preach in the west as he was asked to by his Guru Maharaja. The first was that he reasoned that there were more qualified disciples for such a service because there were disciples who spoke english more fluently. The second, more important reason, was that he wanted to be near his Guru Maharaja as it is very rare to obtain the darshana of such a rare soul. He reasoned that he should take full advantage of his Guru's presence by hearing from him regularly and that wold not be possible in a distant land. Srila Bhaktisiddhanta accepted his reasoning and was most pleased by it.

[Guruvani]

 

The answer is very simple. What Sridhara Maharaja meant by ritvik and what you espouse are entirely different things.

Sridhar Maharaja meant exactly what he said

 

 

from now he will initiate on my behalf as ritvik

He said Govinda Maharaja would give diksha on HIS behalf, not on behalf of himself!

 

 

I am giving him the full responsibility of giving Harinam, diksha, sannyasa, etc., as an Acharya of this Math on behalf of myself.

 

In the will:

 

 

thus, I hereby appoint him as my Successor Sevaite Acharya

 

Govinda Maharaja is successor as SEVAITE acharya, giving dksha ON BEHALF of Sridhar Mahajara.

[Guest guest]

In the Art of Sadhana by Srila Bhakti Pramode Puri Maharaja there is the following important quote that Guruvani will want to ignore, minimize or find fault with:

 

Speaking about the CC verse 2.22.214 sadhu-sanga nama-kirtana bhagavata-sravana..... verse

 

He said:

 

'What needs to be particularly emphasized is that service to the Vaishnava cannot be seperated from any aspect of devotional service. Thus Srila Narotamma dasa Thakura sings, chariya vaisnava-seva nistara payecche keba - 'Who has ever attained supreme beatitude without serving the Vaishnavas?' (Prema-bhakti-candrika) Without the association and service of a perfected devotee of the Lord, the person Bhagavata, no aspect of devotional service can be exercised properly.'

[Guest guest]

Here is the full text of the succession statement and the last will and testament of Srila Bhakti Rakshaka Sridharadeva Goswami:

 

According to the desire of my Divine Master, I have been maintaining this Disciplic Succession but it is no longer possible for me, as I am now too old and an invalid. You all know from long ago I have chosen Sriman Bhakti Sundar Govinda Maharaj and I have given him sannyasa. All my Vaishnava Godbrothers are very affectionate towards him and it is also their desire to give him this position. I have previously given to him the charge of the Math and now I am giving him the full responsibility of giving Harinam, diksha, sannyasa, etc., as an Acharya of this Math on behalf of myself.

 

Those who have any regard for me should give this respect and position to Govinda Maharaj as my successor. As much as you have faith in my sincerity, then with all sincerity I believe that he has got the capacity of rendering service in this way. With this I transfer these beads and from now he will initiate on my behalf as ritvik. The ritvik system is already involved both here and also in the foreign land. The ritvik is the representative. So if you want to take from me, and you take by his hands, then it will be as well and as good as taking from me.

 

In the Mahamandala, Sagar Maharaj and many others are also ritvik of Swami Maharaj and also myself. They may do so, but in this Math and in any Math under this Math, he will be the representative. If anyone cannot accept this, he may leave the Math rather than stay here and disturb the peace of the Math. With all my sincerity and good feelings to Guru-Gauranga, to the Vaishnavas and the Acharyas, Mahaprabhu, Pancha-Tattva, Radha-Govinda and Their Parshadas, with all my sincere prayers to Them, henceforth he will represent me in this affair beginning from today's function.

 

Now I shall go from here and he will do the necessary. On my behalf, he will give Harinama, diksha, sannyasa, and everything.

 

 

--

Last Will & Testament

"The said Sriman Bhakti Sundar Govinda Maharaj, of whom I, Srila Bhakti Rakshak Sridhar Dev-Goswami Maharaj, am the Godfather, and am by caste Gaudiya-Vaishnava Brahmin, and am by occupation a Religious Preacher and Worshipper of the Deities at the address Sri Chaitanya Saraswat Math, P.O. and Police Station Nabadwip -- the said Sriman Bhakti Sundar Govinda Maharaj, who, despite temporarily changing his formal position, was named and recognized by me as Sri Govinda Sundar Vidyaranjan and engaged by me in all the various services of the Math; and upon whom on the 6th November, 1985, I conferred the order of sannyasa whence I again named and recognized him as Sri Bhakti Sundar Govinda Maharaj; and, since he has tirelessly and whole-heartedly assisted in the duties of organizing and developing this Math and also in the duties of establishing and developing Calcutta and Hapaniya Centers, etc., and since he has arranged many donors and has provided much encouragement to even myself in the duties of managing the Math, etc., and all the above-mentioned tasks he is still performing up to this day; and since he is still naturally disposed to serve the Math and its residents, and at all times he is endeavoring for the progressive development of Sri Math, and above all, he is well-known and unanimously acclaimed as being firmly established in the philosophy of the Siddhanta [Perfect Axiomatic Truth] of Bhakti as propounded by both myself as well as by my Divine Master -- thus, I hereby appoint him as my Successor Sevaite Acharya, and President.

"In compliance with the Rules and Regulations of the aforesaid Deed, all my lawful claims, directorship, and rights will automatically be inherited by him. In all my Maths, etc., he alone shall as the Acharya, confer initiation, etc., and shall as the Sevaite [Guardian-Servitor] and President, manage all the duties of my established Temples, Ashrams, etc.

 

"Hereby, I do reveal my final desire and directives unto all my Eastern and Western lady and gentlemen disciples, as well as to the faithful souls devoted to the Divinity, that: they must respect him as the exclusive Acharya and President, and remain faithful to him and cooperate with him in the service duties of the Math.

 

"If anyone cannot honor these directives and this final desire of mine, then they shall be bound to dissociate themselves from my established Maths."

[Guruvani]

 

In the Art of Sadhana by Srila Bhakti Pramode Puri Maharaja there is the following important quote that Guruvani will want to ignore, minimize or find fault with:

 

Speaking about the CC verse 2.22.214 sadhu-sanga nama-kirtana bhagavata-sravana..... verse

 

He said:

 

'What needs to be particularly emphasized is that service to the Vaishnava cannot be seperated from any aspect of devotional service. Thus Srila Narotamma dasa Thakura sings, chariya vaisnava-seva nistara payecche keba - 'Who has ever attained supreme beatitude without serving the Vaishnavas?' (Prema-bhakti-candrika) Without the association and service of a perfected devotee of the Lord, the person Bhagavata, no aspect of devotional service can be exercised properly.'

 

Srila Prabhupada explains how to serve the spiritual master.

 

CC Adi.1, 35 purport,

 

 

There is no difference between the spiritual master's instructions and the spiritual master himself. In his absence, therefore, his words of direction should be the pride of the disciple.

 

What seems to be lost on the Vapuvadi groups is that the instructions of the spiritual master and the spiritual master himself are the same thing.

One serves the spiritual master by serving his instructions, not by loitering around his physical form under the illusion that such physical contact is the true form of service.

[Guest guest]

Please note the wording of Sridhara Maharaja. He says, 'According to the will of my divine master....'

 

In other words - all Acharyas act on behalf of their Guru - that is called disciplic succession. Just see how brilliant Sridhara Maharaja is - with one final statement he puts andend to the nonsense ritvik idea and firmly establishes the proper conception of the authentic Guru Paramapara and shows what the true 'ritvik system' is - it is synonymous with Guru Parampara. Srila Bhakti Rakshaka Sridharadeva Goswami Maharaja ki jaya!!!!!

[Guest guest]

Sri Guru does not have a 'physical' form to loiter around. Why don't you actually read the books and learn the philosophy? Sri Guru's body is completely spiritual.

[Guruvani]

 

Here is the full text of the succession statement and the last will and testament of Srila Bhakti Rakshaka Sridharadeva Goswami:

 

According to the desire of my Divine Master, I have been maintaining this Disciplic Succession but it is no longer possible for me, as I am now too old and an invalid. You all know from long ago I have chosen Sriman Bhakti Sundar Govinda Maharaj and I have given him sannyasa. All my Vaishnava Godbrothers are very affectionate towards him and it is also their desire to give him this position. I have previously given to him the charge of the Math and now I am giving him the full responsibility of giving Harinam, diksha, sannyasa, etc., as an Acharya of this Math on behalf of myself.

 

Those who have any regard for me should give this respect and position to Govinda Maharaj as my successor. As much as you have faith in my sincerity, then with all sincerity I believe that he has got the capacity of rendering service in this way. With this I transfer these beads and from now he will initiate on my behalf as ritvik. The ritvik system is already involved both here and also in the foreign land. The ritvik is the representative. So if you want to take from me, and you take by his hands, then it will be as well and as good as taking from me.

 

In the Mahamandala, Sagar Maharaj and many others are also ritvik of Swami Maharaj and also myself. They may do so, but in this Math and in any Math under this Math, he will be the representative. If anyone cannot accept this, he may leave the Math rather than stay here and disturb the peace of the Math. With all my sincerity and good feelings to Guru-Gauranga, to the Vaishnavas and the Acharyas, Mahaprabhu, Pancha-Tattva, Radha-Govinda and Their Parshadas, with all my sincere prayers to Them, henceforth he will represent me in this affair beginning from today's function.

 

Now I shall go from here and he will do the necessary. On my behalf, he will give Harinama, diksha, sannyasa, and everything.

 

 

--

Last Will & Testament

"The said Sriman Bhakti Sundar Govinda Maharaj, of whom I, Srila Bhakti Rakshak Sridhar Dev-Goswami Maharaj, am the Godfather, and am by caste Gaudiya-Vaishnava Brahmin, and am by occupation a Religious Preacher and Worshipper of the Deities at the address Sri Chaitanya Saraswat Math, P.O. and Police Station Nabadwip -- the said Sriman Bhakti Sundar Govinda Maharaj, who, despite temporarily changing his formal position, was named and recognized by me as Sri Govinda Sundar Vidyaranjan and engaged by me in all the various services of the Math; and upon whom on the 6th November, 1985, I conferred the order of sannyasa whence I again named and recognized him as Sri Bhakti Sundar Govinda Maharaj; and, since he has tirelessly and whole-heartedly assisted in the duties of organizing and developing this Math and also in the duties of establishing and developing Calcutta and Hapaniya Centers, etc., and since he has arranged many donors and has provided much encouragement to even myself in the duties of managing the Math, etc., and all the above-mentioned tasks he is still performing up to this day; and since he is still naturally disposed to serve the Math and its residents, and at all times he is endeavoring for the progressive development of Sri Math, and above all, he is well-known and unanimously acclaimed as being firmly established in the philosophy of the Siddhanta [Perfect Axiomatic Truth] of Bhakti as propounded by both myself as well as by my Divine Master -- thus, I hereby appoint him as my Successor Sevaite Acharya, and President.

"In compliance with the Rules and Regulations of the aforesaid Deed, all my lawful claims, directorship, and rights will automatically be inherited by him. In all my Maths, etc., he alone shall as the Acharya, confer initiation, etc., and shall as the Sevaite [Guardian-Servitor] and President, manage all the duties of my established Temples, Ashrams, etc.

 

"Hereby, I do reveal my final desire and directives unto all my Eastern and Western lady and gentlemen disciples, as well as to the faithful souls devoted to the Divinity, that: they must respect him as the exclusive Acharya and President, and remain faithful to him and cooperate with him in the service duties of the Math.

 

"If anyone cannot honor these directives and this final desire of mine, then they shall be bound to dissociate themselves from my established Maths."

 

The WILL is a legal document that pertains to properties and legal issues of ownership. It is not purely a spiritual matter dealing with succession as is the announcement of Sridhar Maharaja on Gaura Purnima 1986.

 

On Gaura Purnima, 1986, Sridhar Maharaja gave his announcement of spiritual succession apart from the legal issues concerning the will.

 

The announcement Sridhar Maharaja made on Gaura Purnima 1986 reflect his purely spiritual pronouncement and in my view is more important for determining his orders for succesion than is the WILL which was a legal document written up to satisfy legal issues of ownership.

 

So, like to use the legal WILL as some sort of superior document, but it really isn't.

It was a legal matter and did not deal explicitly with Sridhar Maharaja's order of succcession as did his announcement on Gaura Purnima 1986.

[Guest guest]

Prabhu Kshamabuddhi,

 

If you keep going in this direction, abusing devotees who followed Srila Sridhar Maharaj's direct instruction that we all accept Srila Govinda Maharaj as our Guru or "get out of the Math", then you will find yourself getting "dragged out of the Math" with no chance of ever entering inside. And who has said he would "drag out" people who are disturbing the devotees of the Math? Guru Maharaj said it.

 

If you commit the offence of disturbing the residents of the Math (nobody is provoking you, you are provoking this fight because of your love for this ritvik ideology), then Srila Sridhar Maharaj will do as he says he would do, and reject you utterly.

 

These are not my opinions, these are the direct words of my Guru Maharaj, Ananta Sri Vibhusita Sri Srila Bhakti Rakshak Sridar Dev Goswami Maharaj.

 

And as far as Srila Sridhar Maharaj's last words go, I can tell you a lot more about that because I was there. I arrived at the Math (for the 8th time) just ten days or so before his disappearance. I talked with him, I personally witnessed his relationship with the Math Acharya, Srila Govinda Maharaj, and I rendered personal service to him. He had asked me to bring some money to construct a wall around Govinda Kunda, because he was pained by the thought that some neophyte sannyasi had criticized him for allowing fishermen to fish in the kunda. So I sold everything I owned and came to the Math with all the money I could get, just for the purpose of constructing a wall around the kunda. What is the purpose of the wall around the boundaries of the Math? To keep outsiders out. The local fishermen are still our friends and they enter the Math to pay respects from time to time, but the big-mouth critic sannyasis are banned from ever entering the Math compound. Watch out, or you will find yourself in a similar position.

 

It is also a fact that I have personally, physically ejected people from the Math who were causing a disturbance. That also is something I have been required to do. I was of course doing whatever seva is given to me as my responsibility. I was given the seva in 1982 of a guard at the Math, and after all I am his direct initiated disciple, and thus if it is necessary to use force then I will do as I have to -- even at the risk of going to hell for offending someone. I know what hell is, and I have some experience of heaven also. But I do not know the destination of someone who abuses the dedicated devotees of Srila Sridhar Maharaj who are living at his Math. I know what my duty is - my duty is to serve the senior Vaishnavas. My duty is to do whatever I was directed to do by Guru Maharaj. Even at the risk of upsetting people it is my duty to follow the direct instructions of my Guru. Guru Maharaj is very merciful but he was also hard like a thunderbolt too, sometimes. I have seen him in that mood. If you had seen him in that mood then you would have known him a whole lot better. Of course it is not my position to say to anyone "you are rejected by Guru Maharaj". But knowing him as I do, and having seen that he exommunicated one man (Bhakti Rasika Acharya Swami) after hearing my report about the activities of that man, I believe you should carefully think twice before writing any more inflamatory messages and posting them on public internet bulletin boards.

 

Muralidhar Dasadhikari

[Guruvani]

 

Sri Guru does not have a 'physical' form to loiter around. Why don't you actually read the books and learn the philosophy? Sri Guru's body is completely spiritual.

 

that is false.

 

If you ever bothered to read the books of Srila Prabhupada, you would find reference to the "physical form" of the guru many times.

 

 

I think that His Divine Grace Bhaktisiddhānta Sarasvatī Ṭhākura is always seeing my activities and guiding me within my heart by his words. As it is said in Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, tene brahma hṛdā ya ādi-kavaye. Spiritual inspiration comes from within the heart, wherein the Supreme Personality of Godhead, in His Paramātmā feature, is always sitting with all His devotees and associates. It is to be admitted that whatever translation work I have done is through the inspiration of my spiritual master, because personally I am most insignificant and incompetent to do this materially impossible work. I do not think myself a very learned scholar, but I have full faith in the service of my spiritual master, His Divine Grace Śrīla Bhaktisiddhānta Sarasvatī Ṭhākura. If there is any credit to my activities of translating, it is all due to His Divine Grace. Certainly if His Divine Grace were physically present at this time, it would have been a great occasion for jubilation, but even though he is not physically present, I am confident that he is very much pleased by this work of translation. He was very fond of seeing many books published to spread the Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. Therefore our society, the International Society for Krishna Consciousness, has been formed to execute the order of Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu and His Divine Grace Śrīla Bhaktisiddhānta Sarasvatī Ṭhākura.

[Guruvani]

 

Prabhu Kshamabuddhi,

 

If you keep going in this direction, abusing devotees who followed Srila Sridhar Maharaj's direct instruction that we all accept Srila Govinda Maharaj as our Guru or "get out of the Math", then you will find yourself getting "dragged out of the Math" with no chance of ever entering inside. And who has said he would "drag out" people who are disturbing the devotees of the Math? Guru Maharaj said it.

 

If you commit the offence of disturbing the residents of the Math (nobody is provoking you, you are provoking this fight because of your love for this ritvik ideology), then Srila Sridhar Maharaj will do as he says he would do, and reject you utterly.

 

These are not my opinions, these are the direct words of my Guru Maharaj, Ananta Sri Vibhusita Sri Srila Bhakti Rakshak Sridar Dev Goswami Maharaj.

 

And as far as Srila Sridhar Maharaj's last words go, I can tell you a lot more about that because I was there. I arrived at the Math (for the 8th time) just ten days or so before his disappearance. I talked with him, I personally witnessed his relationship with the Math Acharya, Srila Govinda Maharaj, and I rendered personal service to him. He had asked me to bring some money to construct a wall around Govinda Kunda, because he was pained by the thought that some neophyte sannyasi had criticized him for allowing fishermen to fish in the kunda. So I sold everything I owned and came to the Math with all the money I could get, just for the purpose of constructing a wall around the kunda. What is the purpose of the wall around the boundaries of the Math? To keep outsiders out. The local fishermen are still our friends and they enter the Math to pay respects from time to time, but the big-mouth critic sannyasis are banned from ever entering the Math compound. Watch out, or you will find yourself in a similar position.

 

It is also a fact that I have personally, physically ejected people from the Math who were causing a disturbance. That also is something I have been required to do. I was of course doing whatever seva is given to me as my responsibility. I was given the seva in 1982 of a guard at the Math, and after all I am his direct initiated disciple, and thus if it is necessary to use force then I will do as I have to -- even at the risk of going to hell for offending someone. I know what hell is, and I have some experience of heaven also. But I do not know the destination of someone who abuses the dedicated devotees of Srila Sridhar Maharaj who are living at his Math. I know what my duty is - my duty is to serve the senior Vaishnavas. My duty is to do whatever I was directed to do by Guru Maharaj. Even at the risk of upsetting people it is my duty to follow the direct instructions of my Guru. Guru Maharaj is very merciful but he was also hard like a thunderbolt too, sometimes. I have seen him in that mood. If you had seen him in that mood then you would have known him a whole lot better. Of course it is not my position to say to anyone "you are rejected by Guru Maharaj". But knowing him as I do, and having seen that he exommunicated one man (Bhakti Rasika Acharya Swami) after hearing my report about the activities of that man, I believe you should carefully think twice before writing any more inflamatory messages and posting them on public internet bulletin boards.

 

Muralidhar Dasadhikari

Yeah, in the same statement where Sridhar Maharaja appointed Govinda Maharaja as ritvik, he made that statement.

So, you have your interpretation, but Sridhar Maharaja appointed Govinda Maharaja as ritvik and then said if anybody does not accept that, then they should leave the Matha rather than make disturbance.

 

Now, you fellas like to turn all that around and use to support your anti-ritvik prejudices.

 

 

With this I transfer these beads and from now he will initiate on my behalf as ritvik. The ritvik system is already involved both here and also in the foreign land. The ritvik is the representative. So if you want to take from me, and you take by his hands, then it will be as well and as good as taking from me. In the Mahamandala, Sagar Maharaj and many others are also ritvik of Swami Maharaj and also myself. They may do so, but in this Math and in any Math under this Math, he will be the representative. If anyone cannot accept this, he may leave the Math rather than stay here and disturb the peace of the Math.

 

 

so, look at it all in context prabhu.

Sridhar Maharaja appoints Govinda Maharaja as ritvik and then in the next sentence he says....

 

 

 

If anyone cannot accept this, he may leave the Math rather than stay here and disturb the peace of the Math.

[Guest guest]

 

The opinion of the neophyte gang loitering around the Matha doesn't mean anything.

The orders and instructions of Sridhar Maharaja is what really matters.

 

 

There are very few who live in the Math, their service takes them to so many other places, even Srila Govinda Maharaj is only there for major celebrations.

But it behoovs belief that you claim to know the heart and hence the wishes of Srila Sridhara Maharaj more than those who are constantly engaged in actually fullfilling his every desire.

 

And you also have to understand how Sri Chaitanya Sawaswat Math is a conceptual Ideal of audarya dispensation and service to the will of Sri Chaitanya through to Srila Bhakti Siddanta Saraswati and at the same time being the geographical centre of worship to Sri Sri Guru-Gauranga-Gandarvika Govindasundarajui in a mahamandala of service around this planet.

On a list of priorities serving Srila Govinda Maharaj in Sri Sri Radha Govinda's Math is at the top. #1 on SSM's wish list, Why?

Because EVERYTHING else will come from that.

It's so simple but you just don't get it, like those you have got it.

 

 

The highest Aim of Life

 

Disciple: If you are in the Holy succesion of the Rupanuga servitors, how can I please you.

Srila Sridhar Maharaj: Whatever I am for, if you do that. Krsna is for Himself and we are for Him and when also you take the same line, for which we are trying to use our energy wholesale, if you will join that, He will be pleased. What I am doing, I like that others will also follow, my life is simply meant to do for Him. Naturally I like that others will follow the same route, that is natural everywhere. Sri Chaitanya mana siksa, what Sri Chaitanya wants us to do, my Gurudev Srila Bhaktisiddanta Saraswati Thakur also wants to do, and in accordance others will like to work for that line and I also like that others will follow that direction my Gurudev gave, that is Radha Krsna consciousness. So we must try also to reach the domain where Radharani is serving Her most beloved Sri Krsna, that we consider to be our highest goal, and we consider that everyone should accept it as their Summon bonnum - their highest aim in life, where Rasaraj Mahabhava ecstacy personified are pleased, where the appreciator and the servitor of that ecstacy in its highest conception are also pleased. If you aspire to follow that which is the most faultless, purist conception of life. Divine loving service is the highest zenith of purity, and we want to prepare everyone for that cause, their most intense loving service. The purity depends on the intensity of sacrifice, and love proper is that which is based on sacrifice, pure Love for the perfect cause, Absolute good. And there are various practical ways of translating that service.

[Guruvani]

SB 3.31.48

"one has to associate with liberated persons NOT DIRECTLY, PHYSICALLY, BUT BY UNDERSTANDING, THROUGH PHILOSOPHY AND LOGIC, THE PROBLEMS OF LIFE.

[Guruvani]

 

680818SB.MON Lectures

Prabhupada: Oh, that you should not think. If... The words... There are two conceptions: the physical conception and the vibration conception. So physical conception is temporary. The vibration conception is eternal. Just like we are enjoying or we are relishing the vibration of Krsna's teachings. So by vibration He is present. As soon as we chant Hare Krsna or chant Bhagavad-gita or Bhagavata, so He is present immediately by His vibration. He's absolute. Therefore try to remember His words of instruction; you'll not feel separation. You'll feel that He is with you. So we should associate by the vibration, and not by the physical presence. That is real association. Sabdad anavrtti. By sound. Just like we are touching Krsna immediately by sound. Sound vibration. SO WE SHOULD GIVE MORE STRESS ON THE SOUND VIBRATION, EITHER OF KRSNA OR OF THE SPIRITUAL MASTER. THEN WE'LL FEEL HAPPY AND NO SEPARATION

[Guruvani]

Prabhupada used the term PHYSICAL PRESENCE....

 

 

Although according to material vision His Divine Grace Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Thakura Prabhupada passed away from this material world on the last day of December, 1936, I still consider His Divine Grace to be always present with me by his vani, his words. There are two ways of association--by vani and by vapu. Vani means words, and vapu means physical presence. PHYSICAL PRESENCE IS SOMETIMES APPRECIABLE AND SOMETIMES NOT, BUT VANI CONTINUES TO EXIST ETERNALLY. THEREFORE WE MUST TAKE ADVANTAGE OF THE VANI, NOT THE PHYSICAL PRESENCE. Bhagavad-gita, for example, is the vani of Lord Krsna. Although Krsna was personally present five thousand years ago and is no longer physically present from the materialistic point of view, Bhagavad-gita continues.

[Guest guest]

47

 

Krsna is situated in everyone's heart as the caittya-guru, the spiritual master within. When He is kind to some fortunate conditioned soul, He personally gives Him lessons so he can progress in devotional service, instructing the person as the Supersoul within and the spiritual master without.

 

49

 

By associating with a devotee, one awakens his faith in devotional service, one's dormant love for Krsna awakens, and thus one's material conditioned existence comes to an end.

 

51

 

Unless one is favored by a pure devotee, one cannot attain the platform of devotional service. To say nothing of krsna-bhakti, one cannot even be relieved from the bondage of material existence.

 

54

 

The verdict of all revealed scriptures is that by even a moment's association with a pure devotee, one can attain all success.

 

55

 

The value of a moment's association with a devotee of the Lord cannot be compared even to the attainment of the heavenly planets or liberation from matter, and what to speak of worldly benedictions in the form of material prosperity, which is for those who are meant for death.

 

83

 

The root cause of devtional service to Lord Krsna is association with advanced devotees. Even when one's dormant love for Krsna awakens, association with devotees is still most essential.

 

114

 

I shall say something about the various practices of devotional service, which is expanded in so many ways. I wish to speak briefly of the essential practices

 

115

 

On the path of regulative devotional service, one must observe the following items: (1) One must accept a bona fide spiritual master. (2) ONe must accept initiation from him. (3) One must serve him. (4) ONe must receive instructions from teh spritual master in order to learn devotional service. (5) One must follow in the footsteps of the previous acharyas and follow the directions given by the spiritual master.

 

131

 

One should taste the meaning of Srimad Bhagavatam in the association of devotees, and one should associate with the devotees who are more advanced than oneself and who are endowed with a similar type of affection for the Lord.

[Guruvani]

VAPU MEANS "PHYSICAL BODY"!

 

 

690113LE.LA Lectures

...vani and vapu, and vapu means the physical body, and vani means the vibration. So we are not concerned about the physical body. Not concerned means... We are concerned, of course, because the spiritual master, those who are acaryas, their body is not considered as materiel. Arcye sila-dhir gurusu nara-matir. Just like the statue of Krsna, to consider that "This is a stone..." Similarly, arcye sila-dhir gurusu na... Gurusu means those who are acaryas, to accept their body as ordinary man's body, this is denied in the sastras. SO ALTHOUGH A PHYSICAL BODY IS NOT PRESENT, THE VIBRATION SHOULD BE ACCEPTED AS THE PRESENCE OF THE SPIRITUAL MASTER, VIBRATION. WHAT WE HAVE HEARD FROM THE SPIRITUAL MASTER, THAT IS LIVING.

[Guest guest]

 

look at it all in context prabhu.

 

When I arrived at the Math just before his departure, Guru Maharaj was lying on his couch and his body was golden, the colour of turmeric. He was in samadhi, like an avadhoot, and sometimes he would say things to us - but only in Bengali. He lost the interest to speak in English in the last days.

 

I sat on the floor beside his couch. Krishnamayi, Nimai, Badri and Gaurkrishna were present. Chatting with Guru Maharaj and keeping him company. He was jolly. He made a joke about Australia - where is it? He made me realize then that the huge continent of Australia is a dream when someone sees things from the absolute conception.

 

Srila Govinda Maharaj arrived.

 

Gaurkrishna said, Govinda Maharaj is here.

 

Guru Maharaj sat up like a he was suddenly charged full of electric energy. Guru Maharaj said, "Govinda Maharaj, where are you?". Guru Maharaj was blind at this stage of his life. Govinda Maharaj said, "here". Then they started having a very jolly discussion. I couldn't follow all the words in Bengali. Only part of what was said was understandable. It was clear to me however that Guru Maharaj was excited that Govinda Maharaj was doing everything to manage the Math and that everything was being done beautifully.

 

So, if you want to know the <b>context</b> of what Guru Maharaj was meaning, when he appointed Srila Govinda Maharaj as the Math Acharya, then I can tell you something about that. What I have talked about here is just a matter of ten minutes events. I remember the other events that unfolded after that, too.

 

And I also remember that in regards to this sikh philosophy of Ritvik vada, Guru Maharaj said, "we are not sikhs".

[Guruvani]

 

 

And I also remember that in regards to this sikh philosophy of Ritvik vada, Guru Maharaj said, "we are not sikhs".

 

Oh, I see.

We are only Sikhs as long as the guru is physically present, but after he passes we aren't Sikhs anymore?

 

It's interesting how people seem to forget that the "LIVING RITVIK" system is only a half a degree different from "post-samadhi ritvik" and that no acharya in the Sampradaya every used ritviks before Srila Prabhupada.

 

The "ritvik" during the life of the acharya is a major departure from the tradition and is only seperated from the "post-samadhi" ritvik system by an arbitray line drawn by the imaginations of men.

 

As Sridhar Maharaja said, it is the will of the Vaishnava that gives authority to anything.

If an acharya wanted to establish a permanent ritvik system in his Matha or mission, then he certainly has the authority to do that and there is no scriptural injunction that prohibits an acharya from doing that.

[Guest guest]

 

no acharya in the Sampradaya every used ritviks before Srila Prabhupada.

 

 

 

On the order of Prabhupada Sri Bhakti Siddhanta Saraswati Thakura, the lady Miss Daisy Cecilia Bowtell was given diksa by the ritvik process in 1936. The ritvik, in that case, was Bon Maharaj.

[Guruvani]

 

On the order of Prabhupada Sri Bhakti Siddhanta Saraswati Thakura, the lady Miss Daisy Cecilia Bowtell was given diksa by the ritvik process in 1936. The ritvik, in that case, was Bon Maharaj.

 

there is no evidence that Srila Saraswati Thakur used the term ritvik.

 

Maybe he authorized Bon Maharaja to give diksha to that woman, but nobody can prove that Srila Saraswati Thakur ever referred to that as "ritvik".

 

any evidence?

I didn't think so.