Iran and - the new Nazism.

[Bhakta Don Muntean]

"Iran opened a conference on Monday to examine the Holocaust and question whether Nazi Germany used gas chambers to kill Jews...The conference was inspired by President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad..."

 

 

http://ca.news./s/reuters/061211/world/international_iran_holocaust_dc

 

 

Yup - me thinks he's going to hell...

[Guest guest]

 

"Iran opened a conference on Monday to examine the Holocaust and question whether Nazi Germany used gas chambers to kill Jews...The conference was inspired by President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad..."

Yup - me thinks he's going to hell...

 

Since these people in Iran never witnessed what actually happened why would they want to report about it? Just another newspaper hoax to start a war.

If Germans would be Nazis why are there presently 2 million Jewish people living there? They seem to enjoy living in Germany more than those living in Israel isnt it?

Just read: "Article Attacking Israel: Which Rabbi Wrote It?", at

thejewishweek.com/news/newscontent.php3?artid=11445

[Bhakta Don Muntean]

 

Since these people in Iran never witnessed what actually happened why would they want to report about it? Just another newspaper hoax to start a war.

 

Yes - that appears to be the situation...a war to induce their islamic revolution.

[Sephiroth]

Islam going to perish ... and people like Ahmednijab is going to kill it.

 

People like him, Osama bin Laden and Saddam Hussein will show the warmongering side of Islam to the World and the World will turn its face away from the 14th Century crap. Then Islam will perish.

[Guest guest]

 

Since these people in Iran never witnessed what actually happened why would they want to report about it? Just another newspaper hoax to start a war.

If Germans would be Nazis why are there presently 2 million Jewish people living there? They seem to enjoy living in Germany more than those living in Israel isnt it?

Just read: "Article Attacking Israel: Which Rabbi Wrote It?", at

thejewishweek.com/news/newscontent.php3?artid=11445

 

This is not actually correct, in total there is a 50% proportion of immigrants in Germany which has in total 100 million residents and about 4 million Jewish people live there. Of course 98% of the immigrants have obtained German citizenship and dont show up as immigrants. Also most of the 12 million Muslims have obtained German citizinship. In sum the term "Germany" is just an empty label without any meaning - it is nothing but a multi-national state like Australia/New Zealand. Since many people in US still call Germany - "Nazi Germany" they should consider that they call the 4 million Jewish people living in Germany also Nazis.

[Kulapavana]

"Iran and - the new Nazism"

 

I suggest you look up the word nazism in the dictionary and see if it applies to Iran. Is Iran a national socialist state? you are just spreading fake propaganda using big words most people dont understand but associate with evil. your guru Goebbels would have been proud...

[Bhakta Don Muntean]

 

"Iran and - the new Nazism"

 

I suggest you look up the word nazism in the dictionary and see if it applies to Iran. Is Iran a national socialist state? you are just spreading fake propaganda using big words most people dont understand but associate with evil. your guru Goebbels would have been proud...

 

...you know darn well what i mean - as one example - the president of iran accepts the protocals of the elders of zion as some factual historical zionist document - [just like you do?!] and - why do so many islamists ascribe to "socialism" as a means to buy the palestinian and lebanese populations?

[theist]

 

"Iran opened a conference on Monday to examine the Holocaust and question whether Nazi Germany used gas chambers to kill Jews...The conference was inspired by President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad..."

 

 

http://ca.news./s/reuters/061211/world/international_iran_holocaust_dc

 

 

Yup - me thinks he's going to hell...

 

I agree he is going to hell and that may be where he came from. His mission here seems to be bringing hell to earth.

[Kulapavana]

<TABLE><TBODY><TR><TD vAlign=top>Source: bbc</TD></TR><TR><TD> </TD><TD vAlign=top>Published: December 12, 2006 </TD></TR><TR><TD> </TD><TD vAlign=top></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><!-- -->Why are Jews attending a conference on the Holocaust in Tehran at which star guests include deniers of the genocide? Clue: they also want an end to the Israeli state.

 

A handful of Orthodox Jews have attended Iran's controversial conference questioning the Nazi genocide of the Jews - not because they deny the Holocaust but because they object to using it as justification for the existence of Israel. With their distinctive hats, beards and side locks, these men may, to the untrained eye, look like any other Orthodox believers in Jerusalem or New York. But the Jews who went to Tehran are different.

 

Some of them belong to Neturei Karta (Guardians of the City), a group of a few thousand people which views Zionism - the movement to establish a Jewish national home or state in what was Palestine - as a "poison" threatening "true Jews".

 

A representative, UK-based Rabbi Aharon Cohen, told the conference he prayed "that the underlying cause of strife and bloodshed in the Middle East, namely the state known as Israel, be totally and peacefully dissolved". In its place, Rabbi Cohen said, should be "a regime fully in accordance with the aspirations of the Palestinians when Arab and Jew will be able to live peacefully together as they did for centuries".

[Kulapavana]

<TABLE><TBODY><TR><TD vAlign=top>Source: My Way News</TD></TR><TR><TD> </TD><TD vAlign=top>Published: December 12, 2006 Author: MATTI FRIEDMAN</TD></TR><TR><TD> </TD><TD vAlign=top></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><!-- Oy Vey! Olmert puts his foot in it... now all the vorld knows about our secret nukes! -->JERUSALEM (AP) - A slip of the tongue by Prime Minister Ehud Olmert about Israel's nuclear policy ballooned into a domestic crisis Tuesday for the Israeli leader, who came under criticism from across the political spectrum.

 

In an interview with a German television station broadcast Monday, Olmert appeared to list Israel among the world's nuclear powers, violating the country's long-standing policy of not officially acknowledging that it has atomic weapons.

 

Asked by the interviewer about Iran's calls for the destruction of Israel, Olmert replied that Israel has never threatened to annihilate anyone.

 

"Iran openly, explicitly and publicly threatens to wipe Israel off the map," Olmert said. "Can you say that this is the same level, when you are aspiring to have nuclear weapons, as America, France, Israel, Russia?"

 

Israel, which foreign experts say has the sixth-largest nuclear arsenal in the world, has stuck to a policy of ambiguity on nuclear weapons for decades, refusing to confirm or deny whether it has them.

 

The comments came days after incoming Defense Secretary Robert Gates, in testimony to a Senate committee, identified Israel as a nuclear power.

[suchandra]

 

<TABLE><TBODY><TR><TD vAlign=top>Source: My Way News</TD></TR><TR><TD></TD><TD vAlign=top>Published: December 12, 2006 Author: MATTI FRIEDMAN</TD></TR><TR><TD></TD><TD vAlign=top></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><!-- Oy Vey! Olmert puts his foot in it... now all the vorld knows about our secret nukes! -->JERUSALEM (AP) - A slip of the tongue by Prime Minister Ehud Olmert about Israel's nuclear policy ballooned into a domestic crisis Tuesday for the Israeli leader, who came under criticism from across the political spectrum.

 

In an interview with a German television station broadcast Monday, Olmert appeared to list Israel among the world's nuclear powers, violating the country's long-standing policy of not officially acknowledging that it has atomic weapons.

 

Asked by the interviewer about Iran's calls for the destruction of Israel, Olmert replied that Israel has never threatened to annihilate anyone.

 

"Iran openly, explicitly and publicly threatens to wipe Israel off the map," Olmert said. "Can you say that this is the same level, when you are aspiring to have nuclear weapons, as America, France, Israel, Russia?"

 

Israel, which foreign experts say has the sixth-largest nuclear arsenal in the world, has stuck to a policy of ambiguity on nuclear weapons for decades, refusing to confirm or deny whether it has them.

 

The comments came days after incoming Defense Secretary Robert Gates, in testimony to a Senate committee, identified Israel as a nuclear power.

 

Nuclear weapons in the Holy Land - what else could cause God's wrath to bring bad luck upon this place?

[Guest guest]

<b>Olmert's nuclear slip-up sparks outrage in Israel</b>

Phillipe Naughton – Times Online December 12, 2006

 

Ehud Olmert, the Israeli Prime Minister, faced calls for his resignation today after admitting - in an apparent slip of the tongue - that Israel has got nuclear weapons.

 

But Israeli officials tried to push the cat back into the bag, denying that Mr Olmert had made any such admission and falling back on the Jewish state's policy of "nuclear ambiguity".

 

Widely considered the Middle East’s sole nuclear power, Israel has for decades refused to confirm or deny whether it possesses the atomic bomb. Mr Olmert appeared to break that taboo in an interview with a German television station as he began a visit to Berlin.

 

"We never threatened any nation with annihilation," Mr Olmert, speaking in English, told the N24 Sat1 station.

 

"Iran openly, explicitly and publicly threatens to wipe Israel off the map. Can you say that this is the same level, when they are aspiring to have nuclear weapons, as France, America, Russia and Israel?"

 

Mr Olmert’s spokeswoman, Miri Eisin, was quick to deny that the Prime Minister had admitted to Israel having nuclear weapons, saying that "Israel will not be the first country to introduce nuclear weapons to the region."

 

Israel's Negev nuclear research centre has been capable of creating nuclear-grade weapons material since the early 1960s, but has never been subject to inspection by the International Atomic Energy Agency.

 

The IAEA has said, however, that it considers Israel "to be a state possessing nuclear weapons" and proliferation experts reckon that it could have more than 100 devices.

 

Israel's policy of silence also allows it to skirt a US ban on funding countries that proliferate weapons of mass destruction and collect about $2 billion a year in military and other aid.

 

Mr Olmert's blunder came less than a week after Israeli officials rounded on Robert Gates, the incoming US Defence Secretary, for making the same slip-up during his Senate confirmation hearings.

 

"The staggering comments of Ehud Olmert only serve to reinforce the doubts on his capacity to remain Prime Minister," said Yossi Beilin, a leftist MP.

 

Yuval Steinitz, from the opposition Likud bloc, Yuval Steinitz called on Mr Olmert to step down after having made "an irresponsible slip which puts into question a policy that dates back almost half a century".

 

Meanwhile, observers warned that Mr Olmert’s statement threatened to undercut efforts by Israel and the West to prevent Iran from pursuing its nuclear programme, which Tehran says is for civilian purposes and the West fears is a cover for acquiring atomic weapons.

 

Mordechai Vanunu, who served 18 years in jail after blowing the whistle on Israel’s nuclear program in 1986, welcomed the comment.

 

"Olmert’s remark is nothing new, but it is a good thing that Israel decided to make it public," he told AFP.

 

"The world should now not only talk about Iran but also about Israel as a nuclear threat that has to be dealt in order to make a nuclear-free Middle East and bring peace."

 

In scrambling to contain the damage, Israeli officials said that Mr Olmert’s slip would not change the decades-old policy of silence on the country's nuclear capacity.

 

"I support the policy of ambiguity and I don’t see Olmert’s statement as a declaration that Israel has nuclear weapons," said Benjamin Ben-Eliezer, the Infrastructure Minister. "I would suggest that all those who want to talk about the issue, for God’s sake and for the sake of Israel’s security, stop it."

 

A senior Government official added: "This is a real slip of the tongue which was not planned. It is embarrassing for Israel particularly when it is dealing with such a sensitive issue. But this does not change a thing. Our policy stays the same."

[Bhakta Don Muntean]

 

<table><tbody><tr><td valign="top">Source: bbc</td></tr><tr><td> </td><td valign="top">Published: December 12, 2006 </td></tr><tr><td> </td><td valign="top"></td></tr></tbody></table><!-- -->Why are Jews attending a conference on the Holocaust in Tehran at which star guests include deniers of the genocide? Clue: they also want an end to the Israeli state.

 

A handful of Orthodox Jews have attended Iran's controversial conference questioning the Nazi genocide of the Jews - not because they deny the Holocaust but because they object to using it as justification for the existence of Israel. With their distinctive hats, beards and side locks, these men may, to the untrained eye, look like any other Orthodox believers in Jerusalem or New York. But the Jews who went to Tehran are different.

 

Some of them belong to Neturei Karta (Guardians of the City), a group of a few thousand people which views Zionism - the movement to establish a Jewish national home or state in what was Palestine - as a "poison" threatening "true Jews".

 

A representative, UK-based Rabbi Aharon Cohen, told the conference he prayed "that the underlying cause of strife and bloodshed in the Middle East, namely the state known as Israel, be totally and peacefully dissolved". In its place, Rabbi Cohen said, should be "a regime fully in accordance with the aspirations of the Palestinians when Arab and Jew will be able to live peacefully together as they did for centuries".

 

 

Neturei Karta...a very small and radical group - one that has failed to understand many things - with the result being that they are on side with the terroirists in the dissolution of Israel....and what a lack of class for them to go to Iran for such a gathering of hate mongers.

[Bhakta Don Muntean]

 

Nuclear weapons in the Holy Land - what else could cause God's wrath to bring bad luck upon this place?

 

...doing NOTHING as the islamic revolution gains total control over the region....

[Bhakta Don Muntean]

 

Olmert's nuclear slip-up sparks outrage in Israel

Phillipe Naughton – Times Online December 12, 2006

 

Ehud Olmert, the Israeli Prime Minister, faced calls for his resignation today after admitting - in an apparent slip of the tongue - that Israel has got nuclear weapons.

 

But Israeli officials tried to push the cat back into the bag, denying that Mr Olmert had made any such admission and falling back on the Jewish state's policy of "nuclear ambiguity".

 

Widely considered the Middle East’s sole nuclear power, Israel has for decades refused to confirm or deny whether it possesses the atomic bomb. Mr Olmert appeared to break that taboo in an interview with a German television station as he began a visit to Berlin.

 

"We never threatened any nation with annihilation," Mr Olmert, speaking in English, told the N24 Sat1 station.

 

"Iran openly, explicitly and publicly threatens to wipe Israel off the map. Can you say that this is the same level, when they are aspiring to have nuclear weapons, as France, America, Russia and Israel?"

 

Mr Olmert’s spokeswoman, Miri Eisin, was quick to deny that the Prime Minister had admitted to Israel having nuclear weapons, saying that "Israel will not be the first country to introduce nuclear weapons to the region."

 

Israel's Negev nuclear research centre has been capable of creating nuclear-grade weapons material since the early 1960s, but has never been subject to inspection by the International Atomic Energy Agency.

 

The IAEA has said, however, that it considers Israel "to be a state possessing nuclear weapons" and proliferation experts reckon that it could have more than 100 devices.

 

Israel's policy of silence also allows it to skirt a US ban on funding countries that proliferate weapons of mass destruction and collect about $2 billion a year in military and other aid.

 

Mr Olmert's blunder came less than a week after Israeli officials rounded on Robert Gates, the incoming US Defence Secretary, for making the same slip-up during his Senate confirmation hearings.

 

"The staggering comments of Ehud Olmert only serve to reinforce the doubts on his capacity to remain Prime Minister," said Yossi Beilin, a leftist MP.

 

Yuval Steinitz, from the opposition Likud bloc, Yuval Steinitz called on Mr Olmert to step down after having made "an irresponsible slip which puts into question a policy that dates back almost half a century".

 

Meanwhile, observers warned that Mr Olmert’s statement threatened to undercut efforts by Israel and the West to prevent Iran from pursuing its nuclear programme, which Tehran says is for civilian purposes and the West fears is a cover for acquiring atomic weapons.

 

Mordechai Vanunu, who served 18 years in jail after blowing the whistle on Israel’s nuclear program in 1986, welcomed the comment.

 

"Olmert’s remark is nothing new, but it is a good thing that Israel decided to make it public," he told AFP.

 

"The world should now not only talk about Iran but also about Israel as a nuclear threat that has to be dealt in order to make a nuclear-free Middle East and bring peace."

 

In scrambling to contain the damage, Israeli officials said that Mr Olmert’s slip would not change the decades-old policy of silence on the country's nuclear capacity.

 

"I support the policy of ambiguity and I don’t see Olmert’s statement as a declaration that Israel has nuclear weapons," said Benjamin Ben-Eliezer, the Infrastructure Minister. "I would suggest that all those who want to talk about the issue, for God’s sake and for the sake of Israel’s security, stop it."

 

A senior Government official added: "This is a real slip of the tongue which was not planned. It is embarrassing for Israel particularly when it is dealing with such a sensitive issue. But this does not change a thing. Our policy stays the same."

 

 

....oh by the way - this posting is off-topic don't ya know...

[Guest guest]

 

....oh by the way - this posting is off-topic don't ya know...

 

"Iran and Nazism", what the heck does this have anything to do with a Vaishnava forum?

OFF TOPIC!

[mahak]

This is world events forum, anytyhing goes here, however misguided.

 

I sure wish that folks woulkd realize the implications of their desires to rid the world of calamity. We see a nutcase in leader4ship, sao we want to kill all those who are under such oppression, while the leader often has protection. Just look at the monster Pinochet, who was allowed to die of natural causes. The Shah, Pol Pot, these guys are never one of the skeletons buried in mass graves they cause. Ahmadinajack is the same way. Hes a demon for sure, but how many innocents will die because of him. Iran is not my enemy, I have solidarity with all these folks.

 

America is not my enemy, Israel is not my enemy, Islam is not my enemy, but the leaders will surely make us all die a horrible death.

 

mahak

[suchandra]

 

This is world events forum, anytyhing goes here, however misguided.

 

I sure wish that folks woulkd realize the implications of their desires to rid the world of calamity. We see a nutcase in leader4ship, sao we want to kill all those who are under such oppression, while the leader often has protection. Just look at the monster Pinochet, who was allowed to die of natural causes. The Shah, Pol Pot, these guys are never one of the skeletons buried in mass graves they cause. Ahmadinajack is the same way. Hes a demon for sure, but how many innocents will die because of him. Iran is not my enemy, I have solidarity with all these folks.

 

America is not my enemy, Israel is not my enemy, Islam is not my enemy, but the leaders will surely make us all die a horrible death.

 

mahak

 

Our Vienna Rabbi Moishe Aryeh Friedman joins the Iran meeting and somehow causes quite some agitation among many.

 

Iran meeting questions Holocaust and gas chambers

 

Mon Dec 11, 2006 2:37 PM GMT

 

By Parisa Hafezi

 

Rabbi Moishe Aryeh Friedman

 

TEHRAN (Reuters) - Iran staged a conference on Monday to debate the Holocaust and question whether Nazi Germany used gas chambers, prompting charges it was encouraging the denial of the killing of 6 million Jews from 1933 to 1945. The leader of the powerful anti-Zionist Viennese Jewish ultra-orthodox sect, Rabbi Moishe Aryeh Friedman, has made headlines for himself once again. Last time he did it by associating with neonazi Holocaust deniers. The Rabbi, whose credentials have been questioned, has formed an alliance with the Hamas. According to an article in Ha'aretz:

 

STOCKHOLM, Sweden - Palestinian Authority Refugee Minister Atef Adwan and Austrian orthodox rabbi Moishe Arye Friedman pledged Friday to work to build ties between Hamas and anti-Zionist Jews.

 

Adwan, of Hamas, and Friedman told The Associated Press their meeting in the Swedish capital heralded a "joint coalition" between their groups.

 

Adwan also said the two hoped their meeting would lead to plans for humanitarian aid to flow from Friedman's congregation in Vienna to the West Bank.

 

Friedman flew to Stockholm from Vienna on Thursday to meet Adwan, who has been on a weeklong visit to Sweden, attending a conference on Palestinian refugees and meeting Swedish lawmakers.

 

Friedman said his congregation would "do everything in practical terms to help the Palestinian people," including sending money and food to the West Bank.

 

"We will support them in ways that others have failed to do," Friedman said, but declined to give details.

 

Friedman is chief rabbi for hundreds of anti-Zionist orthodox Jews in Vienna but is shunned by Austria's 7,000-member Israelite Religious Community because of views that are repudiated by most Jews and also, in some cases, embraced by far-rightists.

 

Friedman also denies Israel's right to exist and has said Zionist Jews share the blame for the Holocaust, which he sees as punishment for straying from God's path....

 

While few Jews share Friedman's views, Adwan said he hoped the meeting would "send a message ... that we can in fact live with each other. That [Jews] can accept the Palestinians as their mates, as their friends and as their neighbors, and we will accept them as the same."

 

...

 

Friedman also announced plans for a conference of more than 100 Muslim, Jewish and Christian religious leaders in Vienna in June, during the week that U.S. President George W. Bush visits the Austrian capital for a U.S.-European Union summit..

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

What part of the above is the most maddening? For me it is:

 

 

 

Friedman also denies Israel's right to exist and has said Zionist Jews share the blame for the Holocaust, which he sees as punishment for straying from God's path....

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Perhaps Friedman is our punishment for not obeying the injunction "And ye shall expunge the evil from within thy midst," (uvaiarta hara metochacha) beginning with Friedman.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Ami Isseroff

 

 

 

 

Guests at the government-run event, titled "Review of the Holocaust: Global Vision", included Westerners who have cast doubt on the Holocaust -- some of them from countries that have made it a crime to deny it happened -- as well as a few Jews.

 

"The aim of this conference is not to deny or confirm the Holocaust," Foreign Minister Manouchehr Mottaki said. "Its main aim is to create an opportunity for thinkers who cannot express their views freely in Europe about the Holocaust."

 

 

The two-day conference at a Foreign Ministry institute was inspired by President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, who since coming to power in August 2005 has sparked international condemnation by terming the Holocaust a "myth" and calling Israel a "tumour".

Ahmadinejad has said he wants to encourage scholarly debate and examine the justification for Israel's creation.

American David Duke, a former Ku Klux Klan leader, praised Iran. "There must be freedom of speech, it is scandalous that the Holocaust cannot be discussed freely," he said. "It makes people turn a blind eye to Israel's crimes against the Palestinian people."

"SICK" Israel, the United States and a leader of Iran's own 25,000-strong Jewish community condemned the conference. Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Olmert called it "a sick phenomenon that shows the depth of hatred of the fundamentalist Iranian regime". Continued

[Sephiroth]

 

"Iran and - the new Nazism"

 

I suggest you look up the word nazism in the dictionary and see if it applies to Iran. Is Iran a national socialist state? you are just spreading fake propaganda using big words most people dont understand but associate with evil. your guru Goebbels would have been proud...

 

And I could suggest you look up on history of Nazism and what Hitler preached in 1930s to the point of starting war with Poland and the rest of the Europe by 1939. You WILL find similiarities between Adolf Hitler and Ahmednijab. Hell ... it is not so far if we consider Ahmadnijab to be reincarnation of Hitler.

 

Nazism started with a political and patriotism tone to it - same way Ahmednijab does it. Hitler used the Great Depression of 1920s to pushed Germans into being anti-Semantic toward Jews who were better in term of Economic and Social.

 

Those twisted Patrotism gave way to violence, hatred and fear (that Jews will take over) and become a full-fledged war in 1939.

 

And the same way Ahmednijab have threanten the U.N now, it is the same way Hitler showed off the UN back then as well, stating that it is political things and that UN have no business interfering with Germany's political actions.

[Bhakta Don Muntean]

 

And I could suggest you look up on history of Nazism and what Hitler preached in 1930s to the point of starting war with Poland and the rest of the Europe by 1939. You WILL find similiarities between Adolf Hitler and Ahmednijab. Hell ... it is not so far if we consider Ahmadnijab to be reincarnation of Hitler.

 

Nazism started with a political and patriotism tone to it - same way Ahmednijab does it. Hitler used the Great Depression of 1920s to pushed Germans into being anti-Semantic toward Jews who were better in term of Economic and Social.

 

Those twisted Patrotism gave way to violence, hatred and fear (that Jews will take over) and become a full-fledged war in 1939.

 

And the same way Ahmednijab have threanten the U.N now, it is the same way Hitler showed off the UN back then as well, stating that it is political things and that UN have no business interfering with Germany's political actions.

 

Yes it's quite...simple for the simple - difficult for the twisted...

[Bhakta Don Muntean]

 

Our Vienna Rabbi Moishe Aryeh Friedman joins the Iran meeting and somehow causes quite some agitation among many.

 

Iran meeting questions Holocaust and gas chambers

 

Mon Dec 11, 2006 2:37 PM GMT

 

By Parisa Hafezi

 

Rabbi Moishe Aryeh Friedman

 

TEHRAN (Reuters) - Iran staged a conference on Monday to debate the Holocaust and question whether Nazi Germany used gas chambers, prompting charges it was encouraging the denial of the killing of 6 million Jews from 1933 to 1945. The leader of the powerful anti-Zionist Viennese Jewish ultra-orthodox sect, Rabbi Moishe Aryeh Friedman, has made headlines for himself once again. Last time he did it by associating with neonazi Holocaust deniers. The Rabbi, whose credentials have been questioned, has formed an alliance with the Hamas. According to an article in Ha'aretz:

 

[...]

 

Friedman is chief rabbi for hundreds of anti-Zionist orthodox Jews in Vienna but is shunned by Austria's 7,000-member Israelite Religious Community because of views that are repudiated by most Jews and also, in some cases, embraced by far-rightists.

Friedman also denies Israel's right to exist and has said Zionist Jews share the blame for the Holocaust, which he sees as punishment for straying from God's path. ...

 

So that is very sad indeed! About five years back I used to think that the neturei karta was a good thing - however - as i learned more about their very limited understandings [and other stuff too] I had to come to understand that the neturei karta are extremists too.

 

*These noted orthodox followers are interpreting that they cannot return to Jerusalem to renew the State - without the messiah. But they should embrace the renewed State - for the following reasons and - more.

 

The children of Ephraim were as archers handling the bow, that turned back in the day of battle. [Psalms 78.9]

 

So best to be not now - like them then.

 

In that day, saith the LORD, will I assemble her that halteth, and I will gather her that is driven away, and her that I have afflicted; And I will make her that halted a remnant, and her that was cast far off a mighty nation; and the LORD shall reign over them in mount Zion from thenceforth even for ever. [Micah 4.6-7]

 

Of course the messiah that is expected - shall not be seen through any second advent of Jesus - because Jesus isn't the prophetically expected messiah - the 'why not' part of that - is a whole other discussion .

 

So it should be noted that the expected messiah [a complex subject matter] - is a human being - not God - not an incarnation [partial or otherwise] he isn't a demigod - he isn't a 'supernatural' nor divine being at all. - though he is 'different' - in that he has a 'general soul' or - a 'slightly universal' soul.

 

He doesn't have magic powers. Like in the days of old - God shall work the wonders - during the messianic age.

 

So what are a few points about this - in the Prophetic tradition.

 

But they shall sit every man under his vine and under his fig-tree; and none shall make them afraid; for the mouth of the LORD of hosts hath spoken. For let all the peoples walk each one in the name of its god, but we will walk in the name of the LORD our God for ever and ever. [Micah 4.4-5]

 

In that quote we see that the messianic age - shall be multi-faith.

 

But thou, Beth-lehem Ephrathah, which art little to be among the thousands of Judah, out of thee shall one come forth unto Me that is to be ruler in Israel; whose goings forth are from of old, from ancient days. Therefore will He give them up, until the time that she who travaileth hath brought forth; then the residue of his brethren shall return with the children of Israel. [Micah 5.1-2]

 

In that quote we see that the messiah's maternal roots could be traced to this place [Beth-lehem]. To say 'which art little to be among the thousands of Judah' indicates that this was an obscure place - not a place of greatness.

 

It is a misnomer that he is to be born in Beth-lehem - clearly the texts confirm he is born among the exiles.

 

In saying 'out of thee shall one come forth unto Me that is to be ruler in Israel; whose goings forth are from of old, from ancient days' confirms that he has been reincarnating toward this point for a long time - 'whose goings forth are from of old, from ancient days'.

 

We also see that Beth-lehem shall not be a part of a State of Israel 'until the time that she who travaileth hath brought forth' or - he is born - the text says 'Therefore will He give them up' - so is he talking about Beth-lehem - the Hebrew people in exile [and thus Jursalem] or - both?

 

The full point is 'Therefore will He give them up, until the time that she who travaileth hath brought forth; then the residue of his brethren shall return with the children of Israel' - so 'them' indentifies - both those in exile and - Beth-lehem.

 

So they 'shall return' to where - to an already renewed and infant State or - to just a geographical location or - both?

 

We must consider that were it not for Jesus and the Faith surronding him - Beth-lehem would certainly have become a nearly deserted and forgotten place [by the time messiah is born somewhere in the exile] and - for Hebrews it [was] is an 'obscure place' a place of 'no mention'.

 

So we have to then ask - when did Beth-lehem again become part of a State of Israel?

 

It was on June 05, 1967 - so 'He [will] give them up, until the time that she who travaileth hath brought forth and - that then should indicate that - he must have to be born just prior to that event.

 

Consider 'He [will] give them up until the time that she who is to give birth has given birth' - the word 'until' is important - so they are no longer 'given up' right after he is born and - if the messiah is to [alone] accomplish all this - how would he do so - as an infant child? So the use of 'until' means that as soon as he is born - no more position of being 'given up' or seperated from the renewed State.

 

We can also add that the formal reclamation of all of Jerusalem could/would also coincide with this noted event:

 

Now why dost thou cry out aloud? Is there no King in thee, is thy Counsellor perished, that pangs have taken hold of thee as of a woman in travail? [Micah 4.9]

 

After that - there is this description in Zechariah 1.14-17:

 

...so the angel that spoke with me said unto me: 'Proclaim thou, saying: Thus saith the LORD of hosts: I am jealous for Jerusalem and for Zion with a great jealousy; and I am very sore displeased with the nations that are at ease; for I was but a little displeased, and they helped for evil. Therefore thus saith the LORD: I return to Jerusalem with compassions: My house shall be built in it, saith the LORD of hosts, and a line shall be stretched forth over Jerusalem. Again, proclaim, saying: Thus saith the LORD of hosts: My cities shall again overflow with prosperity; and the LORD shall yet comfort Zion, and shall yet choose Jerusalem.

 

So that part - 'I am jealous for Jerusalem and for Zion with a great jealousy; and I am very sore displeased with the nations that are at ease; for I was but a little displeased, and they helped for evil.' - that means that God is angry at the nations of the world for it's treatment of His exiled because He was 'but a little displeased' and yet the nations after the exile were to have 'helped for evil' [or helped forward the afflications] and they were 'at ease' with doing so - thus God says 'I am jealous for Jerusalem and for Zion with a great jealousy' - so when we see fruition of the Micah 5.1-2 events we see that God permits all of Jerusalem to be again under an Israeli State.

 

The State of Israel was first reclaimed after WWII - after the well known last general pogrom [directly under the Nazis and other's indirectly] came to an end - as noted in that quote God thinks that the world could have done more to prevent so much loss and instead they were 'at ease' with the Nazis - for too long - and God sanctioned this renewal - but - with this renewed State - there was a line as it were through [dividing] Jerusalem - until 1967.

 

It should be mentioned that many propagandists have taken Zechariah 14.2 - 'For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle; and the city shall be taken, and the houses rifled, and the women ravished; and half of the city shall go forth into captivity, but the residue of the people shall not be cut off from the city.' - to mean that there shall be a future war there and 'the residue of the people shall not be cut off from the city' - but this not so - as that was fulfilled in 30 C.E. - with the Exile - it should be noted that Muslim rulers later allowed the reestablishment of a Jewish community in Jerusalem thus 'the residue of the people [that] shall not be cut off from the city' means that even after the exile the people were being enabled by God - for a return to a former status as a State or - the end of the Exile!

 

In text 3-4 we read that sometime after the exile comes "The Day of the Lord" - we note this point in texts three and four:

 

Then shall the LORD go forth, and fight against those nations, as when He fighteth in the day of battle. And His feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleft in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, so that there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south.

So God indeed left mercy and an open door through this 'residue of the people [that] shall not be cut off from the city' - so that means that at some point [after the 30 C.E. exile] - the residue of the exile again comes to Jerusalem.

 

Additionally - if the world ends up in a sorry state over this point - there may well come this 'vist' - that produces a mountain dividing earthquake - so - in text 7 we read - And there shall be one day which shall be known as the LORD'S, not day, and not night; but it shall come to pass, that at evening time there shall be light. - of course we 'everyone' have choices - that impact everything.

 

So to the point again - there must have been a State of Israel - already in existence and intended by God - before the time of his birth - as noted by 'then the residue of his brethren shall return with the children of Israel' - it means that there is a State for him and his family and 'the children of Israel' to return to.

 

So yes these are my humble interpretations but - it could well be that he is already here - what aspects of the future of the State of Israel [and the world] are to be impacted by his appearance - is another discussion.

 

One thing is sure - whenever it is that he is born - there must have been a State of Israel - already in existence and intended by God [with a securing of Beth-lehem and [all of] Jerusalem with the timing of his birth] - before the time of his birth - as noted by 'then the residue of his brethren shall return with the children of Israel' - it means that there is already a State for him and 'the residue of his family' and 'the children of Israel' to return to.

 

We can see within this last quote [and through the other's so far] that there is a clear allusion to an exisiting Jerusalem and State - to the seeming surprise of God [and the remant of the people who later begin to return] some time before messiah is born - further - we've seen that God is to show-up in anger - which is noted as being - directed toward the nations - for their helping forward the afflictions of His exiled - when He was 'only a little displeased' - so - at the end of the last and worst pogrom [nazi] God indeed 'showed up' to reclaim Jerusalem and - as expected and 'planned' - He was 'surprised' to see some of His exiled - already there and - because He was sore displeased with the nations - for their 'at ease' adventures in the continual pogroms - He was pleased with finding some remant of His exiled there and He thus began the process - for messiah to be born and - coinciding it with the removal of the dividing-line through Jerusalem:

 

And the word of the LORD of hosts came, saying: 'Thus saith the LORD of hosts: I am jealous for Zion with great jealousy, and I am jealous for her with great fury. Thus saith the LORD: I return unto Zion, and will dwell in the midst of Jerusalem; and Jerusalem shall be called The city of truth; and the mountain of the LORD of hosts The holy mountain. Thus saith the LORD of hosts: There shall yet old men and old women sit in the broad places of Jerusalem, every man with his staff in his hand for very age. And the broad places of the city shall be full of boys and girls playing in the broad places thereof. Thus saith the LORD of hosts: If it be marvellous in the eyes of the remnant of this people in those days, should it also be marvellous in Mine eyes? saith the LORD of hosts. [Zechariah 8.1-6]

 

So later - when the House of The Lord is reestablished by the Lord [and ONLY by the direct efforts of messiah not just the State itself can do this - and it musn't be through violence] - we note this point:

 

Take with you words, and return unto the LORD; say unto Him: 'Forgive all iniquity, and accept that which is good; so will we render for bullocks the offering of our lips. [Hosea 14.3]

 

One sad part of this is that messsiah's appearance shall be marked with spurious claims by others - that he is the anti-christ/al-dajjal.

 

* http://www.audarya-fellowship.com/forums/world-review/412156-orthodox-jews-demand-end-zionist-atrocities-middle-east.html

 

So I wonder if Rabbi Moishe Aryeh Friedman really understands these things and if he doesn't - why not?

[Bhakta Don Muntean]

 

"Iran and Nazism", what the heck does this have anything to do with a Vaishnava forum?

OFF TOPIC!

 

- this is the "World Review" thread - not the "Vaishnava Review" thread...

[Kulapavana]

 

You WILL find similiarities between Adolf Hitler and Ahmednijab... ()...And the same way Ahmednijab have threanten the U.N now, it is the same way Hitler showed off the UN back then as well, stating that it is political things and that UN have no business interfering with Germany's political actions.

 

suuure... I have seen the same lame "logic" when people compared Bush to Hitler and US to the Third Reich this is all pure propaganda BS.

[Bhakta Don Muntean]

 

suuure... I have seen the same lame "logic" when people compared Bush to Hitler and US to the Third Reich this is all pure propaganda BS.

The president of iran has more in common [than not] with hitler [than the average hate monger] and - so do you too. At least when it comes to them bent views on jews and their religion etc., you know it and - so do the others who follow these discussions...

 

[Bhakta Don Muntean]

http://www.honestreporting.com/a/demandAccuracy.asp