Vishnu (as in Brahma, Vishnu and Mahesh) and VIshnu (also known as Narayan)

[Guest guest]

Hi again,

 

I have spoken to many learned scholars (Vedanta Acharayas) and different acharyas give different answers to the following question.

 

Is VIshnu (the preserver) in the trimurti Brahma, Vishnu and Shiva the same as VIshnu known also as Narayan. Some scholars say they are one and the same and others say they are different.

 

The ones who say they are NOT the same say that the VIshnu in the trimurti is a devta and is equal in status to Brahma and Shiva. Lord Vishnu, also known in the Vedas as Krsna, Narayan, is the causes of all causes, 'neti neti' as described by the Vedas.

 

The ones who say they are the same say that there is only one Vishnu, whos consort is Lakshmi and that Vishnu is the preserver in the trimurti, and that Brahma was born from the navel of this Vishnu.

 

Has anyone delved deep into the our Vedas, Shastras where this is clarified? My personal belief is the first one, i.e they are different.

 

Any comments?

[Gaea]

 

Hi again,

 

I have spoken to many learned scholars (Vedanta Acharayas) and different acharyas give different answers to the following question.

 

Is VIshnu (the preserver) in the trimurti Brahma, Vishnu and Shiva the same as VIshnu known also as Narayan. Some scholars say they are one and the same and others say they are different.

 

The ones who say they are NOT the same say that the VIshnu in the trimurti is a devta and is equal in status to Brahma and Shiva. Lord Vishnu, also known in the Vedas as Krsna, Narayan, is the causes of all causes, 'neti neti' as described by the Vedas.

 

The ones who say they are the same say that there is only one Vishnu, whos consort is Lakshmi and that Vishnu is the preserver in the trimurti, and that Brahma was born from the navel of this Vishnu.

 

Has anyone delved deep into the our Vedas, Shastras where this is clarified? My personal belief is the first one, i.e they are different.

 

Any comments?

 

Ragudas,

 

I haven't delved that deeply into scripture but I know the answers to these questions can be found succintly in the Srimad Bhagvatham. Prabhupada's commentries explain these things - perhaps someone can direct you to the right verses here? As far as i know, all forms of Visnu are Visnu-tattva, which means they are not on the same level as Brahma - they are eternal.

 

Different people have different opinions, even with the same translations of the verses. I am also confused with this stuff but i've put it to rest for now - just gonna try to develope love first, understanding of intracacies later.

[Guest guest]

I RECEIVED THIS A WHILE AGO

 

> While reading Prabhupada's translation of

> the Bhagavad Gita, I have read about three

> different Vishnus (Karanodakashayi Vishnu,

> Garbhodakashayi Vishnu, and Kshirodakashayi

> Vishnu). Could you please explain the

> difference between these three Vishnus?

 

The word Vishnu actually refers to a category known as Vishnu-tattva,

or the category of God. There are many definitions of the name Vishnu,

but the basic is "He who has entered everywhere", in reference to

God's omnipresence as the paramatma. Within the category of

Vishnu-tattva are included all of the unlimited incarnations and

expansions of God.

 

There are some expansions that also bear the particular name "Vishnu",

three of which you have mentioned, the Kshirodakashayi Vishnu,

Garbhodakashayi Vishnu, and the Karanadakashayi Vishnu (Maha Vishnu).

 

The Karanodakashayi Vishnu (Maha Vishnu) is the first Purusha avatar

who is lying on the causal ocean (karana-udaka). From him the

innumerable universes manifest as he exhales. And into Him the

universes are destroyed as He inhales.

 

He expands into each universal shell as the Garbhodakashayi Vishnu.

This Vishnu is lying on the universal waters that originate from His

persperation, and which fill the universe half way. In his navel is a

lake, and from that lake grows a lotus stem. Lord Brahma is born

within that lotus. Inside the stem of the lotus are the fourteen

planetary systems.

 

This Vishnu expands as Kshirodakashayi Vishnu who resides in Shveta

Dvipa on the milk ocean. This planet is actually a Vaikuntha planet

that the Lord manifests within the material universe. In reality it is

more like a window through the material covering, which allows one to

see a portion of the spiritual realm. It is an eternal abode, and it

continues to exist even after the destruction of the universe.

 

This third purusha avatara is whom we commonly refer to as Vishnu in

reference to the trinity - Brahma, Vishnu and Shiva. It is this form

of Vishnu who expands as paramatma within everyone's heart.

 

The system of the Lord's incarnations is that all incarnations come

through the form of Kshirodakashayi Vishnu in Shveta Dvipa. Lord

Brahma along with the devas stand on the shore of the milk ocean and

pray to the Lord to incarnate. They are not able to see the Lord, but

Lord Brahma receives confirmation from within his heart.

 

Factually there is no difference between one Vishnu form and another,

as they all belong to the same category of Vishnu-tattva - the Supreme

Person. Krishna is not a different personality from Rama, and Rama is

not a different personality from Narayana. They are one and the same.

The only difference is in what they choose to manifest to their

devotees.

 

We can understand this from a simple example. A man is having a wife

and children. When the man is addressed by the wife, he acts in a

particular way. When the child approaches the father, he acts in yet

another way. And when the workers under him approach him, he responds

in a completely different way. Thus one personality is taking three

forms according to the people whom he is interacting with. The office

manager is not a different person from the husband, nor from the

father, yet they act completely different. The supreme category of

Vishnu-tattva takes different appearances according to the mood of the

devotees approaching him. There is no higher and lower capacity among

the expansions and forms of God. But some forms of God choose to

withhold certain aspects of their oppulences.

 

Yours in service,

 

Jahnava Nitai Das,

Bhaktivedanta Ashram &

Bhaktivedanta International Charities

[Guest guest]

 

I RECEIVED THIS A WHILE AGO

 

> While reading Prabhupada's translation of

> the Bhagavad Gita, I have read about three

> different Vishnus (Karanodakashayi Vishnu,

> Garbhodakashayi Vishnu, and Kshirodakashayi

> Vishnu). Could you please explain the

> difference between these three Vishnus?

 

The word Vishnu actually refers to a category known as Vishnu-tattva,

or the category of God. There are many definitions of the name Vishnu,

but the basic is "He who has entered everywhere", in reference to

God's omnipresence as the paramatma. Within the category of

Vishnu-tattva are included all of the unlimited incarnations and

expansions of God.

 

There are some expansions that also bear the particular name "Vishnu",

three of which you have mentioned, the Kshirodakashayi Vishnu,

Garbhodakashayi Vishnu, and the Karanadakashayi Vishnu (Maha Vishnu).

 

The Karanodakashayi Vishnu (Maha Vishnu) is the first Purusha avatar

who is lying on the causal ocean (karana-udaka). From him the

innumerable universes manifest as he exhales. And into Him the

universes are destroyed as He inhales.

 

He expands into each universal shell as the Garbhodakashayi Vishnu.

This Vishnu is lying on the universal waters that originate from His

persperation, and which fill the universe half way. In his navel is a

lake, and from that lake grows a lotus stem. Lord Brahma is born

within that lotus. Inside the stem of the lotus are the fourteen

planetary systems.

 

This Vishnu expands as Kshirodakashayi Vishnu who resides in Shveta

Dvipa on the milk ocean. This planet is actually a Vaikuntha planet

that the Lord manifests within the material universe. In reality it is

more like a window through the material covering, which allows one to

see a portion of the spiritual realm. It is an eternal abode, and it

continues to exist even after the destruction of the universe.

 

This third purusha avatara is whom we commonly refer to as Vishnu in

reference to the trinity - Brahma, Vishnu and Shiva. It is this form

of Vishnu who expands as paramatma within everyone's heart.

 

The system of the Lord's incarnations is that all incarnations come

through the form of Kshirodakashayi Vishnu in Shveta Dvipa. Lord

Brahma along with the devas stand on the shore of the milk ocean and

pray to the Lord to incarnate. They are not able to see the Lord, but

Lord Brahma receives confirmation from within his heart.

 

Factually there is no difference between one Vishnu form and another,

as they all belong to the same category of Vishnu-tattva - the Supreme

Person. Krishna is not a different personality from Rama, and Rama is

not a different personality from Narayana. They are one and the same.

The only difference is in what they choose to manifest to their

devotees.

 

We can understand this from a simple example. A man is having a wife

and children. When the man is addressed by the wife, he acts in a

particular way. When the child approaches the father, he acts in yet

another way. And when the workers under him approach him, he responds

in a completely different way. Thus one personality is taking three

forms according to the people whom he is interacting with. The office

manager is not a different person from the husband, nor from the

father, yet they act completely different. The supreme category of

Vishnu-tattva takes different appearances according to the mood of the

devotees approaching him. There is no higher and lower capacity among

the expansions and forms of God. But some forms of God choose to

withhold certain aspects of their oppulences.

 

Yours in service,

 

Jahnava Nitai Das,

Bhaktivedanta Ashram &

Bhaktivedanta International Charities

 

a beautiful person