Has bureaucracy spoiled ISKCON?

[Guruvani]

Srila Prabhupada was very concerned that the GBC would become a bureaucracy and spoil ISKCON. He voiced his concern serveral times.

 

The questions here is whether or not the GBC has become a bureaucracy and spoiled everything Srila Prabhupada wanted ISKCON to represent?

 

 

Krishna Consciousness Movement is for training men to be independently thoughtful and competent in all types of departments of knowledge and action, not for making bureaucracy. Once there is bureaucracy the whole thing will be spoiled. There must be always individual striving and work and responsibility, competitive spirit, not that one shall dominate and distribute benefits to the others and they do nothing but beg from you and you provide. No. - Letter to Karandhara, 12/22/72

 

 

I made the GBC to give me relief, but if you do like this, then where is the relief.? It is anxiety for me. This is the difficulty, that as soon as one gets power, he becomes whimsical and spoils everything. What can I do? - Letter to Hansadutta, 9/12/74

 

So, IF the GBC HAS become a bureaucracy, then everything is spoiled and ISKCON has departed from the orders of Srila Prabhupada and essentially become useless or worse.

Worse than useless would mean actually doing a disservice to Srila Prabhupada and making so much disturbance in his name.

 

ISKCON seems to be hopelessy mired in the muck of GBC bureaucracy and there seems to be no light at the end of the tunnel.

[Beggar]

 

ISKCON seems to be hopelessy mired in the muck of GBC bureaucracy and there seems to be no light at the end of the tunnel.

I completely disagree. I think that the GBC bureaucracy is hoplessly mired in the muck of ISKCON (post-Prabhupada lila). And there is a light at the end of the tunnel. In fact its time to put away my laptop and catch the subway.

[Guruvani]

 

I completely disagree. I think that the GBC bureaucracy is hoplessly mired in the muck of ISKCON (post-Prabhupada lila). And there is a light at the end of the tunnel. In fact its time to put away my laptop and catch the subway.

 

 

If there is a subway to enlightenment, then where is it at and how much does it cost?

I didn't know that the path to enlightenment required a subway pass?

 

Life in the big city?

Living like moles and gophers traveling in tunnels under the ground?

 

Where is that tunnel to Krishna?

How much is the ticket?

[gHari]

More sour grapes. Change your diet. It's just boring.

[bolo_hare_krsna]

 

More sour grapes. Change your diet. It's just boring.

 

agreed....agreeed....agreed.....

 

 

as for the author of this thread...ISKCON is srila prabhupadas body....not my words...

[Guest guest]

I agree. The administrators should do something about this. The ritviks should take their grievances some place else. It's getting tiring.

 

 

More sour grapes. Change your diet. It's just boring.

[Guest guest]

Iskcon is Sirla Prabhupada's body? Does than include all the abuses that happen within Iskcon?

 

This is fundamentalism....

[Guest guest]

What do you mean "ISKCON is Srila Prabhupada's body"? Define Iskcon. Devotee have different ideas as to what Iskcon is.

[Beggar]

Have lawyers, judges, justices, doctors, psychiatrists and psychologists shaped the development of the bureaucracy of GBC ISKCON in the U.S.?

[Guruvani]

 

Have lawyers, judges, justices, doctors, psychiatrists and psychologists shaped the development of the bureaucracy of GBC ISKCON in the U.S.?

There is no excuse.

To take the Sankirtan movement of Mahaprabhu and represent it as some misguided, out-of-control bureacratic quagmire is just detestable.

 

My point on this topic is that Srila Prabhupada made it clear that if the GBC became a bureacuracy that they will spoil everything.

 

The GBC did become a bureaucracy and DID spoil everything.

 

So, now leading disciples need to break away from the bureacracy and execute the orders of Srila Prabhupada without intervention or interruption by the bureacracy.

 

Let the bureacracy die an ignominious death and let the true successor of Srila Prabhupada continue the mission.

 

The leading disciples of Srila Prabhupada need to crawl out of the baby crib and do some preaching of their own.

[Beggar]

When you have assets such as real estate and large bank balances you are always subject to the possibility of lawsuits. Given the proven misbehavior of ISKCON's officers and agents there have been several significant lawsuits of which we are all aware. In the aftermath of large legal losses ISKCON has had to conform to the law. Civil cases in the American and British systems are very often decided by expert witnesses who are PHds, MDs ect. Thus the psychiatrists and psychologists now have a big sway over contemporary, overcentalized, bureaucratic ISKCON. In fact why don't you take one of Dhira Govinda's Satvatove Seminars then you'll be right in step with New Age Phds. Maybe Dr. Wolf can help you cure your GBC phobia.:)

[bolo_hare_krsna]

 

Iskcon is Sirla Prabhupada's body? Does than include all the abuses that happen within Iskcon?

 

This is fundamentalism....

 

to answer your question and the question of the other "guest" regarding the statement that "ISKCON is Srila Prabhupada's body".... srila prabhupada said this himself....and obviously, if someone in ISKCON is deviating from principles and is not practicing krsna consciousness but absorbed in material bodily consciousness (tamas, rajas, sattvic, what have you) then clearly this is not what srila prabhupada wanted and therefore it is not representative of srila prabhupada's ISKCON movement...to say that a few bad apples and their adverse, subversive behavior not in accordance with krsna consciousness is the ruination of the transcendental hare krsna movement (ISKCON) is absurd...that would be like saying a a foul smell that permeates the air fouls the entire world's supply of oxygen...or a little pollution in the ocean is the destruction of the entire ocean...apply a farthing of logic please...

thank you

hare krsna

[Guest guest]

<q>apply a farthing of logic please...</q>

 

How can an organisation be the body of a guru? "Srila Prabhupada says..."

What context did he say it? In jest? In seriousness? metaphorically? It's so easy to throw out a statement prefixed with "Srila Prabhupada says..."

 

Is the GM the body of Srila Bhaktisiddhanta? If yes for Srila Prabhupada, then the answer must be yes for Srila Bhaktisiddhanta.

 

Therefore all the-don't-find-fault-with-ISKCON arguments mentioned above must by logic be applied to the GM. Are then the anti GM statements that have come out of ISKCON over many decades offensive to the "body" of Srila Bhaktisiddhanta?

 

Should the anti GM comments be removed from Srila Prabhupada's book since the GM must be Srila Bhaktisiddhanta's body?

 

The history of the schisms within the original GM are little different from the schisms within Iskcon.

 

Some devotees get upset when Iskcon is attacked, but the same devotees will attack the GM.

[Guest guest]

 

<q>apply a farthing of logic please...</q>

 

How can an organisation be the body of a guru? "Srila Prabhupada says..."

What context did he say it? In jest? In seriousness? metaphorically? It's so easy to throw out a statement prefixed with "Srila Prabhupada says..."

 

Is the GM the body of Srila Bhaktisiddhanta? If yes for Srila Prabhupada, then the answer must be yes for Srila Bhaktisiddhanta.

 

Therefore all the-don't-find-fault-with-ISKCON arguments mentioned above must by logic be applied to the GM. Are then the anti GM statements that have come out of ISKCON over many decades offensive to the "body" of Srila Bhaktisiddhanta?

 

Should the anti GM comments be removed from Srila Prabhupada's book since the GM must be Srila Bhaktisiddhanta's body?

 

The history of the schisms within the original GM are little different from the schisms within Iskcon.

 

Some devotees get upset when Iskcon is attacked, but the same devotees will attack the GM.

 

actually srila prabhupada said it in all seriousness, and i even if sid in jest or "metaphor", it is still sadhu, sastra, guru...also, it is so easy to subtly and even grossly insult iskcon and devotees by prefacing ones every argument with..."please dont quote srila prabhupada....please do not say 'srila prabhupada said' just because it doesnt fit my hidden agenda of ulterior motives"....i mean why are people so afraid of "srila prabhupada said" statements? i find them relishable and nectarean unless of course an individual is quoting his divine grace out of context, or to justify non-krsna conscious actions....this " stop saying 'srila prabhupada said' movement is sad....in fact we should all hear more and more what srila prabhupada said, wrote, spoke and taught for all of humanity....

and just as an aside.....of course a gurus body of work including his organization (as you said bhaktisiddhantas gaudiya math) are non-different from the guru himself...which is why srila prabhupada explained many times that ISKCON is his body, but to say srila prabhupada was wrong to protect his young and innocent devotees from contamination, mis-teachings prevalent among his godbrothers and then to suggest removing this advice from his books is ludicrous and, to say the least, mildly offensive...and the fault is not with ISKCON--how many times does this rudimentary idea need to be explained?--but with individuals within ISKCON who may not be following principles, acting asiddhantically (if i may coin a term) and behaving not in krsna consciousness but in bodily consciousness....

 

hare krsna

[Kulapavana]

It is easy to criticize others. Every effort is covered by some degree of fault and controversy. Are you just sitting on your can criticizing others for sport? What have YOU done for Prabhupada LATELY, other than badmouthing others who do some service to him, regardless of how faulty it may seem to you?

 

yes, GBC has a checkered history of performance, but please be specific as to what is the problem, and what may be the solution.

 

demands like: "dont be mired in bureaucracy" are mere cheap populist slogans with zero meaning. the same people who shout such slogans complain that there is no oversight over GBC fundraising and spending policies and conveniently forget that oversight IS the same bureaucracy they complain about it is just plain faultfinding on every level.