euthanasia

[Guest guest]

haribol dear devotees,do any of you have any views especially kc minded as regards the above. hare krishna

[gHari]

The youth in Asia should chant Hare Krsna.

[Guest guest]

Even old folks from all parts of the world should do as gHari recommends.

 

Killing goes on without any imput from man, gods, demons, even death herself refuses to do this. All death is self-inflicted, and such "euthanasia" was created unintentionally by Lord Brahma.

 

But we dont actively take part, it will come. The excuse is that there is no quality in life, but where is the quality in healthy people? Death comes when the body can no longer work for the self. Even a veg is still hearing, so leave him alone. Who are you to determine the quality of life. Who is the desirer of suicide to determine such things.

 

No, we dont worry about death because of its certainty. We should consider birth instead, because what we miss here and now still has to be paid, karmically speaking, so if you off yourself because you dont want pain, that never ensures that the pain still wont be ther in the future. Enjoy (or suffer) as much as this form will allow.

 

haribol, ys, mahaksadasa

[Sridas]

If only souls realized that they will still be in the exact same consciousness they were.... if not worse, before they crossed from this material body to no material body. We as aspiring vaisnavas have to get it thru to the general populous that it is a change of consciousness that is needed, not a change of bodies.

[theist]

 

The youth in Asia should chant Hare Krsna.

 

 

That one rates 3 1/2 green grinners gHari. :D:D 1/2

[Jahnava Nitai Das]

Generally this is done because the person is in excessive pain. But what they fail to understand is that the exact same pain (and more) is going to be there while they remain in their subtle bodies as ghosts. They are not escaping from the pain, they are only increasing it. Thus it is a waste of time.

[theist]

This is a tough one for me guest. I can easily see how it would misused. Old parents made to feel unwanted and a subtle pressure on them to go so the kids can take over the estate.

 

People feeling depressed and not seeing anyway out. At this point what is the difference between euthanashia and suicide.

 

I am definetly opposed to anyone making that choice for others. Anyone remember a movie call Logan's Run? It was about the encapulated society in which evryone who reached 30 went through this sci-fi ritual death while the crowd cheered 'Renew"! "Renew"! The in-charge had everyone thinking that they would all come back and get new youthful bodies. Not entirely untrue by our philosophy but severly twisted

They thought they had gotten rid of old age when in fact they just rid of the aged.

 

But then again there are the cases of people, brain dead, being hooked up to breathing machines. What good is such a body to that soul? The only reason for keeping it going is the hospital may make big bucks and some would say that person is burning up some bad karma.

 

I think in extreme cases like that it may have it's place. Where exactly the line should be drawn I cannot say.

[theist]

JNdas,

 

Are you sure they would all get ghost bodies?

[Jahnava Nitai Das]

 

Are you sure they would all get ghost bodies?

These things are really impossible for any of us to know for certain. I would guess that under most circumstances where the person was just trying to avoid pain (where the body was not physically finished, as it usually is when being hooked up to life support), that their time for death had not yet come and they would dwell as ghosts. When you destroy your body prior to your alloted life finishing you are forced to wait as a ghost for your alloted time to finish. The only difference between shooting yourself in the head and taking a lethal injection is that one looks clean and painless. But both are suicide.

 

One thing we can be certain of is that pain and suffering (karmic reaction) cannot be avoided simply by ending your body. The karmic reaction will still be there and will just pick up where you left off.

[Guest guest]

 

These things are really impossible for any of us to know for certain. I would guess that under most circumstances where the person was just trying to avoid pain (where the body was not physically finished, as it usually is when being hooked up to life support), that their time for death had not yet come and they would dwell as ghosts. When you destroy your body prior to your alloted life finishing you are forced to wait as a ghost for your alloted time to finish. The only difference between shooting yourself in the head and taking a lethal injection is that one looks clean and painless. But both are suicide.

 

One thing we can be certain of is that pain and suffering (karmic reaction) cannot be avoided simply by ending your body. The karmic reaction will still be there and will just pick up where you left off.

 

I agree we cannot escape our karma and that euthansia can be a cover for suicide. But I am trying to find an example of where it would be permissable.

 

What about the example I used above of a brain dead person's body just being kept on a breathing apparatus for years on end? Would that be permissable do you think? I tend to think so.

 

I mean there are circumstances that without the gagetry of modern medicine death would have naturally occured but the body is being kept artifically alive.

[Guest guest]

that was me theist above.

[Jahnava Nitai Das]

 

What about the example I used above of a brain dead person's body just being kept on a breathing apparatus for years on end? Would that be permissable do you think? I tend to think so.

In a case like that, it could be that they are artificially extending the life of the body. But I don't want to be the one to decide any of that. Because there are miracle cases of people comming out of comas after 20 years, so it is really difficult to try to decide. Over all it is everyone's duty to try to protect others' lives, rather than end them. In that sense I would prefer to err on the side of protecting life, than on the side of removing life. I can imagine greedy relatives would misuse this opportunity to unplug the person from life support just to get an inheritance. In kali yuga it is difficult to have a decision based solely on the wellfare of the individual. The doctors will be happy if they live forever, as long as they pay their monthly bills. And the relatives will be waiting for the person to die to grab their money.

 

There is also an uncommon Vedic system of fasting till death, which seems a little more sattvic in comparison to medically assisted suicide. When you fast till death, you usually live for months if you continue taking water. So it isn't just a matter of an abrupt rash decision to end everything. You have 3 or 4 months to meditate on what you are doing and to stop at any time.

 

With a lethal injection, once you did it there's no turning back. It may have just been a passing depression, or a moment of insanity.

 

Two weeks ago there was some guru in Bihar who was burried alive in "jiva samadhi". His disciples claimed he had ordered them to put him in samadhi while living, and they even filmed it with hundreds of villagers coming to worship him and pay respects as he was lowered into the pit and burried. The police wanted to exhume the body to see if he had been poisoned or forced into being burried, but the villagers were objecting saying the film showed he went along with it. I never found out what finally was decided.

[Guest guest]

JN DAS,

 

Could you tell us more on the Vedic System of Fasting? Is it true that a person can live 4 months just drinking water?

[theist]

 

In a case like that, it could be that they are artificially extending the life of the body. But I don't want to be the one to decide any of that. Because there are miracle cases of people comming out of comas after 20 years, so it is really difficult to try to decide. Over all it is everyone's duty to try to protect others' lives, rather than end them. In that sense I would prefer to err on the side of protecting life, than on the side of removing life. I can imagine greedy relatives would misuse this opportunity to unplug the person from life support just to get an inheritance. In kali yuga it is difficult to have a decision based solely on the wellfare of the individual. The doctors will be happy if they live forever, as long as they pay their monthly bills. And the relatives will be waiting for the person to die to grab their money.

 

There is also an uncommon Vedic system of fasting till death, which seems a little more sattvic in comparison to medically assisted suicide. When you fast till death, you usually live for months if you continue taking water. So it isn't just a matter of an abrupt rash decision to end everything. You have 3 or 4 months to meditate on what you are doing and to stop at any time.

 

With a lethal injection, once you did it there's no turning back. It may have just been a passing depression, or a moment of insanity.

 

That makes alot of sense.

 

 

Two weeks ago there was some guru in Bihar who was burried alive in "jiva samadhi". His disciples claimed he had ordered them to put him in samadhi while living, and they even filmed it with hundreds of villagers coming to worship him and pay respects as he was lowered into the pit and burried. The police wanted to exhume the body to see if he had been poisoned or forced into being burried, but the villagers were objecting saying the film showed he went along with it. I never found out what finally was decided.

 

OMG!!! This is where the police shoud have some backbone and just exhume the body. With modern forensics they can determine so much. Man, what craziness.

[Guruvani]

I often think that if I live to a ripe old age that I will just shut down all sensory activity, reduce eating and drinking to an absolute minimum and chant a minimum of 64 rounds a day until I can leave my body in a mystic trance.

By cutting off all sensory activity and directing consciousnese inward, the yogi can enter samadhi and leave his body at will.

 

As long as I can rememeber in my life as a devotee, that has been my plan for reaching old age.

 

Not to starve or die of thirst, but to achieve trance and leave the body in mystic yoga.

I think it can be done.

Certainly, trance and mystic yoga cannot be acheived living a social life in an institution.

Retiring to a bhajan kutir and going into samadhi.

That is my plan.

 

Not to wait till I am too old and invalid, but when I still have some faculties about me.

 

Of course, I was a yogi before I was a devotee, so my yogic conceptions are still there as part of my retirement plan.

[Jahnava Nitai Das]

 

Is it true that a person can live 4 months just drinking water?

 

It is a very common practice amongst Jains in India to fast till death while taking water. I have seen many times it comes in the newspaper that such and such person has been fasting for 90 days or 100 days. I haven't studied it in detail, but base it only on the newspaper reports that come regularly.

[AncientMariner]

 

It is a very common practice amongst Jains in India to fast till death while taking water. I have seen many times it comes in the newspaper that such and such person has been fasting for 90 days or 100 days. I haven't studied it in detail, but base it only on the newspaper reports that come regularly.

 

 

I would have thought the Jains would light a forrest fire and then walk into the forrest fire and get burnt up. I wonder why they try to fast until death I thought they were the ones imitating Lord Rsabhadeva.