Leaving the Body

December 19, 2006

Thank you. It is indeed an interesting experience to gradually find the world growing silent. I look upon this as my karma....perhaps I did not listen well enough in previous lives and so this time I will not be able to listen at all? I do not know. Perhaps it is a gift, to experience the Eternal Silence that is God, at least a little bit, before this body departs.

My case is, of course, very different from those who are born deaf, as I think in words-sounds and they, having no sounds, cannot. They dream, for example, in pictures and converse in their dreams in Sign. I suspect, but do not know, that the Mother, finding a born-deaf person who is earnestly seeking Her, will approach that person by direct apprehension, since there are not likely to be any teachers around to give them the message and reading is not everything, after all. If the Mother can come to us and give us direct experience of Her, then of course She can do so with the blind, the deaf and so on. And many deaf people, while not hearing, can pick up vibrations through the floor. If you have ever been to a deaf dance, you will find the decibel level quite deafening. LOL The dancers "hear" the rhythm via the vibrations through the floor boards.

The Hebrew scriptures have a verse that says, "Be still, and know that I am God." This does, of course, encourage us to calm down and shut out the daily busy-ness that so often distracts us, but it also speaks to an internal silence that we are to cultivate. Many great saints from different traditions have lived in silence for varying periods of time, and there must be something to it or they would not have done it.

Now, I have no idea whether or not there is such a thing as Sanskrit in Sign, but if there is, it will be exceedingly difficult, if not impossible, to find a teacher. So again, I am back to having to use English if the day comes that I try to teach someone deaf all about the Mother's mantras.

It is most helpful, by the way, to receive all the different ideas that people have on this subject. I cannot think of everything myself, and having a sympathetic group such as this one is truly wonderful

Bill

ty_maa <dsjames (AT) pghmail (DOT) com> wrote:

Dear Bill,

It is interesting that while the multitude of sadhus are struggling,

with more or less intensity and enthusiasm, to "go beyond the senses",

and thus realize God, you, whose sense of hearing is gradually

diminishing, are wondering how sadhana can continue.

Is it possible that when hearing becomes silent-along with the mind

itself, which is often considered the "sixth sense" in Indian

literature-there will be no sadhana, because there will be no need for

it?

The yogis retreat to the cave of Silence-whether it be a literal

mountain cave, or the "cave of the Heart"-because in that Silence they

experience the uninterrupted Presence of God:

"Lord, Thy Name is Silence" according to the Shruti.

"I shall become a yogi and dwell in Love's mountain cave".

Both bhaktas and jnanis chant Om (AUM). A is the waking state, U is the

dream state, M is the dreamless state. And the Silence which follows is

the transcendent state of God realization.

"How can one 'sign' to one who has been deaf from birth, the meaning of

Silence"? Probably no more difficult than the meaning of Presence, or

Divine Love. In any case it is an interesting question for one who is

the Mother's servant and minester is this lifetime.

Respectfully,

Tanmaya

, Bill Smith wrote:

>

> Fair enough. But as I am growing deafer by the day, and learning ASL

in order to communicate, what then? How do ASL people chant? I am not

being facetious, where I live there are all kinds of deaf people who

have no idea what spoken language sounds like. As my proficiency in ASL

grows, and their patience at my slowness continues, I shall want to tell

them more, possibly, about the Divine Mother and so forth. (Not all of

them have access to the internet, they wil rely on me, at least at

first.) So how does one chant in sign language?

>

> Bill

>

> inspectionconnection108 inspectionconnection108 wrote:

> Namaste Bill,

>

> Chris's statement about mantras are correct. I would add this: the

> mantras are in Sanskrit. This language is the closest representation

> of the real nature of the aspect of Divinity which they represent.

> According to Shree Maa and Swami, and countless language experts,

> Sanskrit is the purest language available. Thus, using this language,

> one can get the best results, the most power, and blessings, available

> from the sounds one produces in prayer.

> There is much written about this is the Kasyapa Sutras, within the

> book: "Shree Maa, The Guru and the Goddess", by Swami, and available

> from the Devi Mandir. Kasyapa Sutra 12 has some excellent information

> about the value of mantras.

>

> Jai Maa

>

> vish

>

, "Chris Kirner"

> wrote:

> >

> > Bill,

> >

> > I'm sure Vish will respond, but I would like to put my two-cents in

too.

> >

> > All of the practices we learn at the feet of Shree Maa and Swamiji

> > involve the use of Sanskrit mantras. There is a reason for this

beyond

> > simple tradition. All of these mantras have specific subtle

vibrations

> > that resonate with powers of spiritual activity and consciousness,

> > both within and without.

> >

> > Certainly there is power in prayer of any kind, in any language, but

> > with the use of mantra we get, not only the intentions of our heart

> > and the results of the connection that creates, but an additional

> > impetus toward divinity beyond what we are presently capable of

alone.

> >

> > The use of mantra is kind of like downloading the library of

divinity

> > into your unconscious. You take your seat, repeat the mantras, and

> > they slowly open up within like beautiful flowers smiling for God

> alone.

> >

> > All of the universe is present within each of us. This is the

> > experience of the sages. Yet this is not our experience. There is so

> > very much that is beyond us, not only in the sphere of action, but

in

> > the ability to grasp, to comprehend, even imagine. Mantras help us

to

> > accomplish that which we are incapable of at the moment. Where we

> > cannot imagine, they Know, and they invariably bring us to that

place

> > where we will Know too.

> >

> > Believe me, I know how foreign and twisty and long and difficult,

even

> > Gayatri mantra seems at first. When I first learned Gayatri I

thought

> > I'd really accomplished something! Actually I had, though not in the

> > limited way I'd imagined. Gayatri is one of the most powerful

mantras

> > there is, and it is accessible to everyone. Gayatri mantra is a part

> > of me, and I am forever changed by what Gayatrimata (Mother Gayatri)

> > has given me (not that I am aware, even yet, of all that is). Each

> > time we repeat a mantra with faith we are changed in some way.

> >

> > Really, you can do this. Begin at the beginning; learn one mantra

and

> > practice it. Then learn another. There is a process that opens up

with

> > faith and practice. Most of the pujas (worship ceremonies) and other

> > books published for the mandir have a guide to pronunciation in them

> > somewhere. It's not too difficult to get the hang of. Soon you'll be

> > working out the correct pronunciation of most things yourself.

> >

> > In the beginning the mantra seems like a collection of meaningless

and

> > difficult sounds. Soon, if one has faith in God and in the mantra,

> > something happens beyond simple familiarity and the mantra becomes

> > easy, soon, enjoyable. Then you begin to notice subtle changes in

> > state when you practice; perhaps you become a little more loving, or

> > perhaps a little more aware, perhaps your mind becomes a little less

> > centered in yourself. Soon the mantra becomes a special friend, and

> > there is enjoyment, as well as the feeling of discipline, in the

> > recitation of it.

> >

> > As mantra shakti begins to open up within as the result of reciting

> > one mantra it imparts the ability to learn and benefit from other

> > mantras too. If you have faith in and love for a gurudeva the

effects

> > are multiplied. Sooner than you might think you will find even a

large

> > book filled from front to back with mantras, like the Chandi Path,

> > within the realm of possibility for you. Really, you have only to

make

> > the effort and let God and guru do the rest. Mantra sadhana is

really

> > beautiful.

> >

> > Here is Gayatri written out:

> >

> > Om bhur bhuva svaha

> > Tat Savitur varenyam

> > Bargo devasya dimahi

> > Diyo yo nah

> > Prachodayat

> >

> > Here is a link to a video presentation of the folks at the Devi

Mandir

> > starting the Yajna fire. There is a good recording of a group

> > repetition of Gayatri at the beginning when someone (who is that?)

is

> > trying to get fire with a stick. It might be better than the one you

> > have (just in case).

> >

> > Here's the link:

> > http://www.shreemaa.org/drupal/node/339

> >

> > Jai Maa!

> > Chris

> >

> > , Bill Smith wrote:

> > >

> > > Namaste

> > >

> > > Your kindness never fails to impress. Let me take a look at the

> > website again and see what I can see on my own first. I have a cd of

> > the Gayatra mantra but find the pronunciation difficult. At 58 and

> > being slighly deaf, I wonder if I chant in English....is that

> > acceptable? There are translations on the web....Or else I can write

> > it out phonetically and hope for the best.

> > >

> > > Bill

> > >

> > > inspectionconnection108 wrote:

> > > NAMASTE

> > >

> > > Bill, I do have the answers for you from Swami. These are the

prayers

> > > and process to follow when one passes.

> > > I posted the following questions to Swami and he answered each

one.

> > >

> > > Vish question: Is there value in chanting mantras, reading texts

> > > aloud?, for an unconscious person as they are dying? even before?

> > >

> > > Swami : Absolutely. So much we can charge the atmosphere and

> > > environment with spiritual energy, so great is the benefit to the

soul

> > > in transition. Just as we prefer a spiritual environment for

> > > meditation because it is more conducive to a materially charged

> > > environment, in the same way we will want to make the environment

> > > conducive for one's transition.

> > > >

> > > Vish question: Will this help them transition? What is best

mantra?

> > > text?

> > > >

> > > Swami: The best mantra is Gayatri. Also Mahamrityunjaya is

> > > recommended. There is no circumstance in which greater wisdom will

not

> > > be regarded.

> > > >

> > > Vish question: Also, need help in describing the practice of the

> > > Shraddha, ceremony. How many days performing the mantra? What is

> > > best mantra? When to have the final celebration?

> > >

> > > Swami: The Shraddha is a memorial ceremony in honor of the

departed.

> > > It can be celebrated for 10, 12, 15, or 30 days after the

transition,

> > > and thereafter three times a year for life: on the anniversary of

> > > passing, at the time of Mahalaya, and at Diwali.

> > >

> > > Again Gayatri mantra is the customary japa.

> > >

> > > Bill, if you need those mantras, I can type them out. Let me know.

> > > They are in the Chandi, and Advanced Shiva Puja books. Also, Shree

> > > Maa has made a CD of Her chanting the Mahamrityunjaya mantra, over

and

> > > over. It is also on the web site. Also, you can call me at 707 255

> > > 3383 from 8-110 pm daily, Pacific time, and I can read them aloud

for

> > > you if you cannot find them on the web site.

> > >

> > > NOTE: MAA HAS SAID IT IS VERY POWERFUL TO PLAY THE CD OVER AND

OVER.

> > > IT PURIFIES AND PROTECTS THE HOME AND ITS OCCUPANTS.

> > >

> > > Jai Maa Jai Swami

> > >

> > > love vishweshwar

> > >

> > > , Bill Smith wrote:

> > > >

> > > > Hi again. I am sorry if I am beating this to a pulp....I just

> > > looked over the FAQ's at the website and under General

Philosophical

> > > Things there was a note from Swami saying that if one slips into

coma

> > > for some reason, and does so while meditating on the Divine

Mother,

> > > then you stay in that meditation. Since I do not know any reason

for

> > > doubting that, I shall take his word for it. The point seems to be

> > > that we are to focus on the Divine every waking moment.

> > > >

> > > > The other side of this coin comes from a prayer by the English

St

> > > Richard of Chichester, who, before going into battle, prayed as

> follows:

> > > >

> > > > "Dear Lord, I am going to be very busy this day. If I should

have

> > > occasion, while fighting, to forget Thee, pray do not Thou forget

me."

> > > >

> > > > Richard seems to have covered all the bases, and I am not being

> > > facetious when I say that. The issue is too important for that.

> > > >

> > > > Warmly

> > > >

> > > > Bill

> > > >

> > > > inspectionconnection108 wrote:

> > > > Namaste

> > > >

> > > > Bill. good morning, You are welcome. This question is important

for

> > > > us all. Swami will help us. In our tradition, there are prayers

the

> > > > family member, or friend, performs for the departed soul

immediately

> > > > after they leave the body. The prayers are performed for a

specific

> > > > amount of days, in order to help the soul reach the highest

> planes of

> > > > consciousness. I have performed them for several friends and

family

> > > > members who have passed. I performed them daily for 9 days. The

> > > > experience was very profound.

> > > > As Swami has reported, the soul is given a boost by our prayers,

> > > > helping them rise high. In addition, we also ask the departing

> soul to

> > > > send divine energy back to Earth to help us evolve. The higher

the

> > > > soul rises, the more powerful the energy, so the effect on our

> > > > evolution in greater.

> > > > In our tradition, we maintain our relationship with the

departed,

> > > > especially the ancestors, daily. In our daily prayers, we thank

the

> > > > ancestors for their sacrifices, as their efforts brought us to

the

> > > > place we are today, and we ask them to send their energy to us

on

> > > > Earth. Our energy, helps them, and their energy helps us.

> > > > We can discuss the specific prayers, and other details if you

are

> > > > interested, in the future.

> > > >

> > > > I hope this helps.

> > > >

> > > > Jai Maa Jai Swami

> > > >

> > > > love

> > > >

> > > > vishweshwar

> > > >

> > > > Vishweshwar, Bill Smith

> > > > wrote:

> > > > >

> > > > > Wow! Many thanks for your kindness in this regard. It is a

> question

> > > > I have long wondered about since I have been at some many

deathbeds

> > > > (not to be dramatic) over the years. And in our society, as we

all

> > > > know, most of us die in hospital, hooked up to who knows how

many

> > > > machines, with lots of distractions and no peace. A tough

> environment

> > > > in which to be composed.

> > > > >

> > > > > I await the swami's thoughts with keen interest. Again, thank

you

> > > > for taking trouble with this for me.

> > > > >

> > > > > Bill

> > > > >

> > > > > inspectionconnection108 wrote:

> > > > > Namaste Bill

> > > > >

> > > > > I sent a copy of your e mail to Swami for a reply. Either he

> > will post

> > > > > directly, or I will forward to you upon receipt.

> > > > >

> > > > > It is a powerful question, one which needs Swami's response.

> > > > >

> > > > > Jai Maa Jai Swami

> > > > >

> > > > > love

> > > > >

> > > > > vishweshwar

> > > > >

> > > > > , Bill Smith wrote:

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Namaste:

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Ok, here goes with question number one. I have heard, for a

long

> > > > > time now, all about the importance of one's last, dying

thoughts

> > > > > before we depart this body. It seems to me that this assumes

> we are

> > > > > reasonably conscious when we do the departing, that is to say,

> have

> > > > > some control over our minds. But almost everyone I have ever

> > seen die

> > > > > did so after a long period of unconsciousness and coma. Who

> has any

> > > > > idea of what, if anything, was going on in their minds then?

> And how

> > > > > can I, if I am the one in that situation, which likely willbe

> > the case

> > > > > one day, be told to form the proper thoughts for a proper

death,

> > so to

> > > > > speak? It would seem to me that the last thoughts I had before

> > losing

> > > > > consciousness and going into coma are the only ones I can be

> > > > > responsible for....

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Bill

> > > > > >

> > > > > > inspectionconnection108 wrote:

> > > > > > Namaste

> > > > > >

> > > > > > From the Devi Mandir publication: "Before Becoming This",

page

> > 198,

> > > > > > Swami says:

> > > > > >

> > > > > > "We all come back each lifetime. In fact, we don't even go

> away.

> > > > > > Energy never dies; it only changes form. Kinetic energy

becomes

> > > > > > potential energy, and potential energy becomes kinetic.

> > > Consciousness

> > > > > > never dies. Consciousness is eternal. Each individual is

made of

> > > > > > consciousness and energy. If the consciousness doesn't die

> and the

> > > > > > energy doesn't die, what dies? If there is not a death,

there

> > can't

> > > > > > be a rebirth. There is one continuous transformation.

> > Consciousness

> > > > > > and energy are constantly changing forms. You were small

> when you

> > > > > > were a young child, now you are older, someday you will

> leave this

> > > > > > form, and the energy and consciousness will leave this form.

> What

> > > > > > dies? What was born? The Atma, individual soul, is one with

the

> > > > > > Paramatma, universal soul. The space inside the container is

> > exactly

> > > > > > the same as the space outside the container. The only

difference

> > > > > > between the two is the definition that is created by the

> > container.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > The energy of that container will move into a new container.

> > And the

> > > > > > space within the container will move into a new container.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > The soul never had a form. The soul is the same as the

> space. The

> > > > > > space is the same inside and outside. When the body

> dissolves, the

> > > > > > container dissolves. The awareness is one with the universal

> > > > > > awareness, the world soul, the Paramatma, the Supreme soul.

> > Now here

> > > > > > comes a new container that encompasses another piece of that

> > soul.

> > > > > > Certainly, all the samskaras, all of the tendencies laden

with

> > that

> > > > > > soul and that container, are coming into manifestation as a

new

> > > > > > container of that same consciousness.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Samkaras are tendencies, attitudes, a propensity to manifest

> in a

> > > > > > certain way.

> > > > > > Those tendencies maintain some continuity from lifetime to

> > > lifetime.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > As Swami has stated, all the sadhana we have performed in

our

> > life,

> > > > > > prepares us for the last thoughts we have in our body. If we

> have

> > > > > > been chanting the Holy Names of God for many years, then

> > > naturally our

> > > > > > mind will dwell on those mantras as we leave the body. Those

> > are the

> > > > > > thoughs we want to have as we leave the body. Then as we

> begin our

> > > > > > next life, we will begin from that lofty plateau.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Jai Maa Jai Swami

> > > > > >

> > > > > > love

> > > > > >

> > > > > > vishweshwar

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Please visit us online at http://www.ShreeMaa.org

> > > > > >

December 19, 2006

Hi Bill,

Please don't feel I'm trying to push you into anything you don't want

to do. If you don't feel led toward the Sanskrit, I'm sure God will

bless you no matter how you practice. As you said, God certainly does

speak English, and the doing is the most important thing.

I have read some good things about the use of the Jesus prayer and the

growth of meditation practice in the church. It is very heartening to me.

Jai Maa!

Chris

, Bill Smith <biggerblat wrote:

>

> Thank you for you reply. As I stated in a previous posting, I have

mantras on cd and listen to them, and believe I can find them

phonetically on the net. There are lots of sites. As for having to get

the pronunciation exactly right, I shall do the best I can. There is a

Hindu monastery in California with whom I correspond once in a while,

and I asked them this same question about pronunciation and they said

that God speaks English too, and not to worry about it. The point

seemed to be to chant, and not dither around about it, which is easy

enough to do. I have, of course, chanted for years, using the Jesus

Prayer and following the breathing techniques as taught by the monks

on Mt Athos in the Hesychist tradition.

>

> Bill

>

> Chris Kirner <chriskirner1956 wrote:

> Bill,

>

> I'm sure Vish will respond, but I would like to put my two-cents in too.

>

> All of the practices we learn at the feet of Shree Maa and Swamiji

> involve the use of Sanskrit mantras. There is a reason for this beyond

> simple tradition. All of these mantras have specific subtle vibrations

> that resonate with powers of spiritual activity and consciousness,

> both within and without.

>

> Certainly there is power in prayer of any kind, in any language, but

> with the use of mantra we get, not only the intentions of our heart

> and the results of the connection that creates, but an additional

> impetus toward divinity beyond what we are presently capable of alone.

>

> The use of mantra is kind of like downloading the library of divinity

> into your unconscious. You take your seat, repeat the mantras, and

> they slowly open up within like beautiful flowers smiling for God

alone.

>

> All of the universe is present within each of us. This is the

> experience of the sages. Yet this is not our experience. There is so

> very much that is beyond us, not only in the sphere of action, but in

> the ability to grasp, to comprehend, even imagine. Mantras help us to

> accomplish that which we are incapable of at the moment. Where we

> cannot imagine, they Know, and they invariably bring us to that place

> where we will Know too.

>

> Believe me, I know how foreign and twisty and long and difficult, even

> Gayatri mantra seems at first. When I first learned Gayatri I thought

> I'd really accomplished something! Actually I had, though not in the

> limited way I'd imagined. Gayatri is one of the most powerful mantras

> there is, and it is accessible to everyone. Gayatri mantra is a part

> of me, and I am forever changed by what Gayatrimata (Mother Gayatri)

> has given me (not that I am aware, even yet, of all that is). Each

> time we repeat a mantra with faith we are changed in some way.

>

> Really, you can do this. Begin at the beginning; learn one mantra and

> practice it. Then learn another. There is a process that opens up with

> faith and practice. Most of the pujas (worship ceremonies) and other

> books published for the mandir have a guide to pronunciation in them

> somewhere. It's not too difficult to get the hang of. Soon you'll be

> working out the correct pronunciation of most things yourself.

>

> In the beginning the mantra seems like a collection of meaningless and

> difficult sounds. Soon, if one has faith in God and in the mantra,

> something happens beyond simple familiarity and the mantra becomes

> easy, soon, enjoyable. Then you begin to notice subtle changes in

> state when you practice; perhaps you become a little more loving, or

> perhaps a little more aware, perhaps your mind becomes a little less

> centered in yourself. Soon the mantra becomes a special friend, and

> there is enjoyment, as well as the feeling of discipline, in the

> recitation of it.

>

> As mantra shakti begins to open up within as the result of reciting

> one mantra it imparts the ability to learn and benefit from other

> mantras too. If you have faith in and love for a gurudeva the effects

> are multiplied. Sooner than you might think you will find even a large

> book filled from front to back with mantras, like the Chandi Path,

> within the realm of possibility for you. Really, you have only to make

> the effort and let God and guru do the rest. Mantra sadhana is really

> beautiful.

>

> Here is Gayatri written out:

>

> Om bhur bhuva svaha

> Tat Savitur varenyam

> Bargo devasya dimahi

> Diyo yo nah

> Prachodayat

>

> Here is a link to a video presentation of the folks at the Devi Mandir

> starting the Yajna fire. There is a good recording of a group

> repetition of Gayatri at the beginning when someone (who is that?) is

> trying to get fire with a stick. It might be better than the one you

> have (just in case).

>

> Here's the link:

> http://www.shreemaa.org/drupal/node/339

>

> Jai Maa!

> Chris

>

> , Bill Smith wrote:

> >

> > Namaste

> >

> > Your kindness never fails to impress. Let me take a look at the

> website again and see what I can see on my own first. I have a cd of

> the Gayatra mantra but find the pronunciation difficult. At 58 and

> being slighly deaf, I wonder if I chant in English....is that

> acceptable? There are translations on the web....Or else I can write

> it out phonetically and hope for the best.

> >

> > Bill

> >

> > inspectionconnection108 wrote:

> > NAMASTE

> >

> > Bill, I do have the answers for you from Swami. These are the prayers

> > and process to follow when one passes.

> > I posted the following questions to Swami and he answered each one.

> >

> > Vish question: Is there value in chanting mantras, reading texts

> > aloud?, for an unconscious person as they are dying? even before?

> >

> > Swami : Absolutely. So much we can charge the atmosphere and

> > environment with spiritual energy, so great is the benefit to the soul

> > in transition. Just as we prefer a spiritual environment for

> > meditation because it is more conducive to a materially charged

> > environment, in the same way we will want to make the environment

> > conducive for one's transition.

> > >

> > Vish question: Will this help them transition? What is best mantra?

> > text?

> > >

> > Swami: The best mantra is Gayatri. Also Mahamrityunjaya is

> > recommended. There is no circumstance in which greater wisdom will not

> > be regarded.

> > >

> > Vish question: Also, need help in describing the practice of the

> > Shraddha, ceremony. How many days performing the mantra? What is

> > best mantra? When to have the final celebration?

> >

> > Swami: The Shraddha is a memorial ceremony in honor of the departed.

> > It can be celebrated for 10, 12, 15, or 30 days after the transition,

> > and thereafter three times a year for life: on the anniversary of

> > passing, at the time of Mahalaya, and at Diwali.

> >

> > Again Gayatri mantra is the customary japa.

> >

> > Bill, if you need those mantras, I can type them out. Let me know.

> > They are in the Chandi, and Advanced Shiva Puja books. Also, Shree

> > Maa has made a CD of Her chanting the Mahamrityunjaya mantra, over and

> > over. It is also on the web site. Also, you can call me at 707 255

> > 3383 from 8-110 pm daily, Pacific time, and I can read them aloud for

> > you if you cannot find them on the web site.

> >

> > NOTE: MAA HAS SAID IT IS VERY POWERFUL TO PLAY THE CD OVER AND OVER.

> > IT PURIFIES AND PROTECTS THE HOME AND ITS OCCUPANTS.

> >

> > Jai Maa Jai Swami

> >

> > love vishweshwar

> >

> > , Bill Smith wrote:

> > >

> > > Hi again. I am sorry if I am beating this to a pulp....I just

> > looked over the FAQ's at the website and under General Philosophical

> > Things there was a note from Swami saying that if one slips into coma

> > for some reason, and does so while meditating on the Divine Mother,

> > then you stay in that meditation. Since I do not know any reason for

> > doubting that, I shall take his word for it. The point seems to be

> > that we are to focus on the Divine every waking moment.

> > >

> > > The other side of this coin comes from a prayer by the English St

> > Richard of Chichester, who, before going into battle, prayed as

follows:

> > >

> > > "Dear Lord, I am going to be very busy this day. If I should have

> > occasion, while fighting, to forget Thee, pray do not Thou forget me."

> > >

> > > Richard seems to have covered all the bases, and I am not being

> > facetious when I say that. The issue is too important for that.

> > >

> > > Warmly

> > >

> > > Bill

> > >

> > > inspectionconnection108 wrote:

> > > Namaste

> > >

> > > Bill. good morning, You are welcome. This question is important for

> > > us all. Swami will help us. In our tradition, there are prayers the

> > > family member, or friend, performs for the departed soul immediately

> > > after they leave the body. The prayers are performed for a specific

> > > amount of days, in order to help the soul reach the highest

planes of

> > > consciousness. I have performed them for several friends and family

> > > members who have passed. I performed them daily for 9 days. The

> > > experience was very profound.

> > > As Swami has reported, the soul is given a boost by our prayers,

> > > helping them rise high. In addition, we also ask the departing

soul to

> > > send divine energy back to Earth to help us evolve. The higher the

> > > soul rises, the more powerful the energy, so the effect on our

> > > evolution in greater.

> > > In our tradition, we maintain our relationship with the departed,

> > > especially the ancestors, daily. In our daily prayers, we thank the

> > > ancestors for their sacrifices, as their efforts brought us to the

> > > place we are today, and we ask them to send their energy to us on

> > > Earth. Our energy, helps them, and their energy helps us.

> > > We can discuss the specific prayers, and other details if you are

> > > interested, in the future.

> > >

> > > I hope this helps.

> > >

> > > Jai Maa Jai Swami

> > >

> > > love

> > >

> > > vishweshwar

> > >

> > > Vishweshwar, Bill Smith

> > > wrote:

> > > >

> > > > Wow! Many thanks for your kindness in this regard. It is a

question

> > > I have long wondered about since I have been at some many deathbeds

> > > (not to be dramatic) over the years. And in our society, as we all

> > > know, most of us die in hospital, hooked up to who knows how many

> > > machines, with lots of distractions and no peace. A tough

environment

> > > in which to be composed.

> > > >

> > > > I await the swami's thoughts with keen interest. Again, thank you

> > > for taking trouble with this for me.

> > > >

> > > > Bill

> > > >

> > > > inspectionconnection108 wrote:

> > > > Namaste Bill

> > > >

> > > > I sent a copy of your e mail to Swami for a reply. Either he

> will post

> > > > directly, or I will forward to you upon receipt.

> > > >

> > > > It is a powerful question, one which needs Swami's response.

> > > >

> > > > Jai Maa Jai Swami

> > > >

> > > > love

> > > >

> > > > vishweshwar

> > > >

> > > > , Bill Smith wrote:

> > > > >

> > > > > Namaste:

> > > > >

> > > > > Ok, here goes with question number one. I have heard, for a long

> > > > time now, all about the importance of one's last, dying thoughts

> > > > before we depart this body. It seems to me that this assumes

we are

> > > > reasonably conscious when we do the departing, that is to say,

have

> > > > some control over our minds. But almost everyone I have ever

> seen die

> > > > did so after a long period of unconsciousness and coma. Who

has any

> > > > idea of what, if anything, was going on in their minds then?

And how

> > > > can I, if I am the one in that situation, which likely willbe

> the case

> > > > one day, be told to form the proper thoughts for a proper death,

> so to

> > > > speak? It would seem to me that the last thoughts I had before

> losing

> > > > consciousness and going into coma are the only ones I can be

> > > > responsible for....

> > > > >

> > > > > Bill

> > > > >

> > > > > inspectionconnection108 wrote:

> > > > > Namaste

> > > > >

> > > > > From the Devi Mandir publication: "Before Becoming This", page

> 198,

> > > > > Swami says:

> > > > >

> > > > > "We all come back each lifetime. In fact, we don't even go

away.

> > > > > Energy never dies; it only changes form. Kinetic energy becomes

> > > > > potential energy, and potential energy becomes kinetic.

> > Consciousness

> > > > > never dies. Consciousness is eternal. Each individual is made of

> > > > > consciousness and energy. If the consciousness doesn't die

and the

> > > > > energy doesn't die, what dies? If there is not a death, there

> can't

> > > > > be a rebirth. There is one continuous transformation.

> Consciousness

> > > > > and energy are constantly changing forms. You were small

when you

> > > > > were a young child, now you are older, someday you will

leave this

> > > > > form, and the energy and consciousness will leave this form.

What

> > > > > dies? What was born? The Atma, individual soul, is one with the

> > > > > Paramatma, universal soul. The space inside the container is

> exactly

> > > > > the same as the space outside the container. The only difference

> > > > > between the two is the definition that is created by the

> container.

> > > > >

> > > > > The energy of that container will move into a new container.

> And the

> > > > > space within the container will move into a new container.

> > > > >

> > > > > The soul never had a form. The soul is the same as the

space. The

> > > > > space is the same inside and outside. When the body

dissolves, the

> > > > > container dissolves. The awareness is one with the universal

> > > > > awareness, the world soul, the Paramatma, the Supreme soul.

> Now here

> > > > > comes a new container that encompasses another piece of that

> soul.

> > > > > Certainly, all the samskaras, all of the tendencies laden with

> that

> > > > > soul and that container, are coming into manifestation as a new

> > > > > container of that same consciousness.

> > > > >

> > > > > Samkaras are tendencies, attitudes, a propensity to manifest

in a

> > > > > certain way.

> > > > > Those tendencies maintain some continuity from lifetime to

> > lifetime.

> > > > >

> > > > > As Swami has stated, all the sadhana we have performed in our

> life,

> > > > > prepares us for the last thoughts we have in our body. If we

have

> > > > > been chanting the Holy Names of God for many years, then

> > naturally our

> > > > > mind will dwell on those mantras as we leave the body. Those

> are the

> > > > > thoughs we want to have as we leave the body. Then as we

begin our

> > > > > next life, we will begin from that lofty plateau.

> > > > >

> > > > > Jai Maa Jai Swami

> > > > >

> > > > > love

> > > > >

> > > > > vishweshwar

> > > > >

> > > > > Please visit us online at http://www.ShreeMaa.org

> > > > >

December 19, 2006

That's very sweet of you to say, Karen. How is Michael, anyway? I

haven't heard from him in a while. From my perspective, I often feel

like I talk too much!

Jai Maa!

Chris

, "Karen" <forall10q wrote:

>

> Dear Chris,

>

> Thanks so very much for this information. I am making a file of the

> information that I can collect about honoring the recently departed so

> that I have it at the ready. My mother's life is melting, a long,

> slow, agonizing decline, and when I was doing a puja for her yesterday,

> I felt a strong awareness to be more prepared than usual. It's a

> comfort to know what to do (to have a plan) when the time comes.

>

> BTW, I want to commend you for your excellent seva regarding this

> group. Your postings never cease to uplift and amaze both my husband

> and me. Michael's refrain, after reading the posts, is always, "That

> Chris KNOWS so much!" Thanks not only for sharing what you know, but

> for sharing in a detailed way. You have the teacher's ability to read

> minds and know what remains unasked yet needed for the student's growth

> and development.

>

> Love,

> Karen

>

> , "Chris Kirner" <chriskirner1956@>

> wrote:

> >

> > Hi Karen,

> >

> > I'm sure there's probably more to this process, but I have some notes

> > from a similar question Swamiji answered a couple of years ago.

> >

> > When the soul leaves the body the Vishnu Sahasranama is recited. After

> > death for eleven days one places a candle and fresh flowers next to a

> > picture of the departed and recites at least one mala of Gayatri

> > Mantra. The sankalpa for that is "pitri shraddhamaham karishye."

> >

> > I don't know anything about the daily prayers...

> >

> > Jai Maa!

> > Chris

> >

> > , "inspectionconnection108"

> > inspectionconnection108@ wrote:

> > >

> > > NAMASTE KAREN

> > >

> > > After Bill requested this data, I posted a message to Swami asking

> for

> > > specifics for prayers prior to, and post death. He sent a response

> > > and I have posted it. I have completed the process several times for

> > > loved one who passed, and performed the ceremony on the anniversary

> of

> > > their death, etc., and it is very powerful.

> > > The incredible thing about this tradition is that Maa and Swami want

> > > us to be self sufficient and perform these ceremonies for ourselves,

> > > our families, and friends.

> > > Swami has said many times how fortunate it is that we can pray for

> > > others. It is a real blessing.

> > > I am committed to helping spread this knowledge in every way

> possible.

> > > If I can be of further help, let me know.

> > >

> > > Jai Maa Jai Swami

> > >

> > > love

> > >

> > > vishweshwar

> > >

> > > , "Karen" <forall10q@> wrote:

> > > >

> > > > At the end of this post, you mentioned specific prayers. I wasn't

> > sure

> > > > if you meant the daily ones or the ones for the recently departed.

> > But

> > > > it doesn't matter, really, because I am very interested in knowing

> > both.

> > > > I especially would like to be able to have the prayers (and the

> > > > procedure for chanting them) for the recently departed at the

> > ready for

> > > > immediate use. I would be so very appreciative if we could learn

> > about

> > > > these. Love, Karen

> > > >

> > > > , "inspectionconnection108"

> > > > <inspectionconnection108@> wrote:

> > > > >

> > > > >In our tradition, there are prayers the

> > > > > family member, or friend, performs for the departed soul

> immediately

> > > > > after they leave the body. The prayers are performed for a

> specific

> > > > > amount of days, in order to help the soul reach the highest

> > planes of

> > > > > consciousness. I have performed them for several friends and

> family

> > > > > members who have passed. I performed them daily for 9 days. The

> > > > > experience was very profound.

> > > > > As Swami has reported, the soul is given a boost by our prayers,

> > > > > helping them rise high. In addition, we also ask the departing

> > soul to

> > > > > send divine energy back to Earth to help us evolve. The higher

> the

> > > > > soul rises, the more powerful the energy, so the effect on our

> > > > > evolution in greater.

> > > > > In our tradition, we maintain our relationship with the

> departed,

> > > > > especially the ancestors, daily. In our daily prayers, we thank

> the

> > > > > ancestors for their sacrifices, as their efforts brought us to

> the

> > > > > place we are today, and we ask them to send their energy to us

> on

> > > > > Earth. Our energy, helps them, and their energy helps us.

> > > > > We can discuss the specific prayers, and other details if you

> are

> > > > > interested, in the future.

> > > > >

> > > > > I hope this helps.

> > > > >

> > > > > Jai Maa Jai Swami

> > > > >

> > > > > love

> > > > >

> > > > > vishweshwar

> > > > >

> > > > > Vishweshwar, Bill Smith

> > > > > biggerblat@ wrote:

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Wow! Many thanks for your kindness in this regard. It is a

> > question

> > > > > I have long wondered about since I have been at some many

> deathbeds

> > > > > (not to be dramatic) over the years. And in our society, as we

> all

> > > > > know, most of us die in hospital, hooked up to who knows how

> many

> > > > > machines, with lots of distractions and no peace. A tough

> > environment

> > > > > in which to be composed.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > I await the swami's thoughts with keen interest. Again, thank

> you

> > > > > for taking trouble with this for me.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Bill

> > > > > >

> > > > > > inspectionconnection108 inspectionconnection108@ wrote:

> > > > > > Namaste Bill

> > > > > >

> > > > > > I sent a copy of your e mail to Swami for a reply. Either he

> will

> > > > post

> > > > > > directly, or I will forward to you upon receipt.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > It is a powerful question, one which needs Swami's response.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Jai Maa Jai Swami

> > > > > >

> > > > > > love

> > > > > >

> > > > > > vishweshwar

> > > > > >

> > > > > > , Bill Smith wrote:

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Namaste:

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Ok, here goes with question number one. I have heard, for a

> long

> > > > > > time now, all about the importance of one's last, dying

> thoughts

> > > > > > before we depart this body. It seems to me that this assumes

> > we are

> > > > > > reasonably conscious when we do the departing, that is to say,

> > have

> > > > > > some control over our minds. But almost everyone I have ever

> seen

> > > > die

> > > > > > did so after a long period of unconsciousness and coma. Who

> > has any

> > > > > > idea of what, if anything, was going on in their minds then?

> > And how

> > > > > > can I, if I am the one in that situation, which likely willbe

> the

> > > > case

> > > > > > one day, be told to form the proper thoughts for a proper

> > death, so

> > > > to

> > > > > > speak? It would seem to me that the last thoughts I had before

> > > > losing

> > > > > > consciousness and going into coma are the only ones I can be

> > > > > > responsible for....

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Bill

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > inspectionconnection108 wrote:

> > > > > > > Namaste

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > From the Devi Mandir publication: "Before Becoming This",

> page

> > > > 198,

> > > > > > > Swami says:

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > "We all come back each lifetime. In fact, we don't even go

> away.

> > > > > > > Energy never dies; it only changes form. Kinetic energy

> becomes

> > > > > > > potential energy, and potential energy becomes kinetic.

> > > > Consciousness

> > > > > > > never dies. Consciousness is eternal. Each individual is

> made of

> > > > > > > consciousness and energy. If the consciousness doesn't die

> > and the

> > > > > > > energy doesn't die, what dies? If there is not a death,

> there

> > > > can't

> > > > > > > be a rebirth. There is one continuous transformation.

> > > > Consciousness

> > > > > > > and energy are constantly changing forms. You were small

> > when you

> > > > > > > were a young child, now you are older, someday you will

> > leave this

> > > > > > > form, and the energy and consciousness will leave this form.

> > What

> > > > > > > dies? What was born? The Atma, individual soul, is one with

> the

> > > > > > > Paramatma, universal soul. The space inside the container is

> > > > exactly

> > > > > > > the same as the space outside the container. The only

> difference

> > > > > > > between the two is the definition that is created by the

> > > > container.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > The energy of that container will move into a new container.

> And

> > > > the

> > > > > > > space within the container will move into a new container.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > The soul never had a form. The soul is the same as the

> > space. The

> > > > > > > space is the same inside and outside. When the body

> > dissolves, the

> > > > > > > container dissolves. The awareness is one with the universal

> > > > > > > awareness, the world soul, the Paramatma, the Supreme soul.

> Now

> > > > here

> > > > > > > comes a new container that encompasses another piece of that

> > soul.

> > > > > > > Certainly, all the samskaras, all of the tendencies laden

> with

> > > > that

> > > > > > > soul and that container, are coming into manifestation as a

> new

> > > > > > > container of that same consciousness.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Samkaras are tendencies, attitudes, a propensity to manifest

> > in a

> > > > > > > certain way.

> > > > > > > Those tendencies maintain some continuity from lifetime to

> > > > lifetime.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > As Swami has stated, all the sadhana we have performed in

> our

> > > > life,

> > > > > > > prepares us for the last thoughts we have in our body. If we

> > have

> > > > > > > been chanting the Holy Names of God for many years, then

> > naturally

> > > > our

> > > > > > > mind will dwell on those mantras as we leave the body. Those

> are

> > > > the

> > > > > > > thoughs we want to have as we leave the body. Then as we

> > begin our

> > > > > > > next life, we will begin from that lofty plateau.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Jai Maa Jai Swami

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > love

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > vishweshwar

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Please visit us online at http://www.ShreeMaa.org

> > > > > > >

December 19, 2006

Hi: Thanks. I do not feel pushed, in particular, so not to worry. If I manage to get a little pronunciation down properly, that is good, and if not, God does speak English.

Just as a little note, one of my religious history profs of several decades ago maintained that one of the reasons for the worldwide growth of the church was that it was portable. That is, there was no particular emphasis on facing any city to pray, no steadfast rule about getting up very early to say one's prayers, no need to wear particular clothing to belong to the church and no need to pray in any particular language. Hence, portability. I think he does have a point. The temples in Toronto, for example, are almost totally used by Hindus who have moved here from India and South America. Nothing wrong with that, but they have maintained their own cultural and religious identities so strongly that it is difficult for outsiders such as myself to feel free to go there. Of course these folk want to maintain ties to what is dear and familiar to them in a strange and I am sure difficult country (at times), but if they are to really "arrive" here, they need to come to terms

with our culture, our language and so on. Their kids, for example, are not going to speak Hindi forever, and as for sanskrit, it will end up as a language for scholars only. Either that, or it will end up like the old Latin in the Roman Mass, understood by a few only, and sometimes poorly at that.

I used to tell the swami at Toronto's ISKCON (who was a genuinely decent man), that if they wanted to grow, they had to get Krishna out of India and into Canada. You want to paint a picture of him, go ahead. But this being Canada, if you are going to put Him in a woodland scene, then throw in a moose in the background and a pine tree or two. Give him the Rockies for a background. That kind of thing. You do not have to overdo it or it ends up ;looking silly, but I can see a picture of the Mother, for example, with the Golden Gate Bridge in the background. That may sound a little odd, but never having been to India, I can relate better to North American background than I can to Indian. And it makes the Divine seem a whole lot less foreign, strange and sometimes outright bizarre. Remember, a lot of pictures of Jesus have him as a native man in South America or China or whatever and no one fell over dead as a result. I remember a great painting in the black neighbourhoods of

Toronto with Jesus as a half naked black man, complete with afro (this was a while ago). I was intrigued, not shocked. Whatever helps. Of course, in this case, it was also something of a reaction to Jesus the white man, the blue eyed, limp-wristed wimp of most art, who would not have lasted ten minutes on a cross. You know the pics I am talking about. This guy couldn't save a goldfish, never mind a living human being. Hence, Jesus the black guy. Well, why not Mother as....what? A ghetto mother? A Katrina refugee? A single mother, raising her family of three kids on her own? I do not know and am probably WAAAAAAAAAYYYYYYY out of line on this. If so, tell me to shut up and be quiet and listen and learn from my elders.......

Bill

Chris Kirner <chriskirner1956 > wrote: