Guest guest Posted December 17, 2006 Report Share Posted December 17, 2006 Ah!!!!!! now I remember. You are that 20 something young man who send an email to Bhasurananda natha once, let me quote your request "I read your article on Vamachara and became really interested in studying and practising. Can you guide me?" Now my dear young man, this shall be your first lesson, something you must understand if you want to know abt Vamachara practices that is : "Woman are manifestation of DEVI". If you find it hard to except this then this shows you are not for the path. Finding the path and walking the path is two totally different altogether. Let me share another set of conversation we have sometime back in the group. Wife as Devi [ 2005 ] Mahamuni Of course wife is Devi. All women are manifestation of Devi. Men are just too stupid to see it. Even men are the manifestation of Devi, though in a different way. But that is another subject. Max Dashu Of course wife is Devi. All women are manifestation of Devi. Candi Paath agrees: Vidhaah: samastaastava devi bhedaah: Striyah: samastaah: sakalaa jagatsu Problem is, some believe husband should be worshipped as a god by the faithful wife, but never the other way around. Their egos want to lord it over. , "NMadasamy" <nmadasamy wrote: > > , "Dennis" <mprgrandmaster@> > wrote: > > > > Jai Shri Mataji! > > What you say maybe true in some sense but I do not think it is so > generally. I mean, how can it be every young girl to be equal with > Durga , Parvati, Saraswati or Laksmi?Can they cure diseases?Can they > give en masse Kundalini Awakening?Can they teach Shri Nirmala Vidya? > Young girl maybe a manifestation of Shri Maha Devi but they are not > Maha Devi Herself in complete form and with complete Powers. > > Dionisis > \ > > > You are looking from different angle and Im citing from a shakta > tantric point of view. To US [ read to word US], all woman are > manifestation of DEVI herself. Maybe its that you never understood > this statement at all. Read the tantric text and you will understand > what im talking abt. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 17, 2006 Report Share Posted December 17, 2006 Hi Dennis Kumari Puja, Suvasini Puja, Dampati Puja etc., are part of our routine tradition, especially during Navaratri or whenever we have Sri Vidya Puja etc. At that time, we consider the child, the married woman and/ or the couple as the respective deity. On Ganesh chaturthi day, we take a Ganesh idol made of clay and worship as Lord Ganesha himself. Try questioning us whether the clay lump of Ganesha will be able to write Mahabharata.How stupid of you to write and question what Nora described as a Navaratri Puja practice in a temple in Kualalampur instead of becoming happy that our culture is being preserved in a foreign country by our people even after centuries are gone by. With apologies; I do not mean to deride you or chastise you; Just trying to put things in perspective as it comes to my stupid and small mind. JR NMadasamy <nmadasamy (AT) nmadasamy (DOT) com> wrote: Ah!!!!!! now I remember. You are that 20 something young man who send an email to Bhasurananda natha once, let me quote your request "I read your article on Vamachara and became really interested in studying and practising. Can you guide me?" Now my dear young man, this shall be your first lesson, something you must understand if you want to know abt Vamachara practices that is : "Woman are manifestation of DEVI". If you find it hard to except this then this shows you are not for the path. Finding the path and walking the path is two totally different altogether. Let me share another set of conversation we have sometime back in the group. Wife as Devi [ 2005 ] Mahamuni Of course wife is Devi. All women are manifestation of Devi. Men are just too stupid to see it. Even men are the manifestation of Devi, though in a different way. But that is another subject. Max Dashu Of course wife is Devi. All women are manifestation of Devi. Candi Paath agrees: Vidhaah: samastaastava devi bhedaah: Striyah: samastaah: sakalaa jagatsu Problem is, some believe husband should be worshipped as a god by the faithful wife, but never the other way around. Their egos want to lord it over. , "NMadasamy" <nmadasamy wrote: > > , "Dennis" <mprgrandmaster@> > wrote: > > > > Jai Shri Mataji! > > What you say maybe true in some sense but I do not think it is so > generally. I mean, how can it be every young girl to be equal with > Durga , Parvati, Saraswati or Laksmi?Can they cure diseases?Can they > give en masse Kundalini Awakening?Can they teach Shri Nirmala Vidya? > Young girl maybe a manifestation of Shri Maha Devi but they are not > Maha Devi Herself in complete form and with complete Powers. > > Dionisis > \ > > > You are looking from different angle and Im citing from a shakta > tantric point of view. To US [ read to word US], all woman are > manifestation of DEVI herself. Maybe its that you never understood > this statement at all. Read the tantric text and you will understand > what im talking abt. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 17, 2006 Report Share Posted December 17, 2006 This is an interesting discussion. A person who gained knowledge of any subject including kundalini and preaching/transmitting this knowledge is Acharya. If a female, she is respectfully addressed as Mata.One can be a great teacher without becoming a God. Great sages like Vyasa, Vashista to Adi Sankara followed by some others did not claim they were Gods. Even Rama behaved as a good example of a warrior king and not an all knowing, all powerful god. Our traditions like Kumari puja teach humility. Even a professor of say physics may bow on a particular day to a Kumari. It does not mean the Kumari knows more about physics than the professor. It is good that Mata Nirmala Devi is doing great work in spreading our ancient knowledge. She is not an anti thesis to our tradition. She is part of our ethos ranging from the questioning Sankhya to strong simple faith that excludes every thing else. Radhakrishnan J <jayaarshree > wrote: Hi Dennis Kumari Puja, Suvasini Puja, Dampati Puja etc., are part of our routine tradition, especially during Navaratri or whenever we have Sri Vidya Puja etc. At that time, we consider the child, the married woman and/ or the couple as the respective deity. On Ganesh chaturthi day, we take a Ganesh idol made of clay and worship as Lord Ganesha himself. Try questioning us whether the clay lump of Ganesha will be able to write Mahabharata.How stupid of you to write and question what Nora described as a Navaratri Puja practice in a temple in Kualalampur instead of becoming happy that our culture is being preserved in a foreign country by our people even after centuries are gone by. With apologies; I do not mean to deride you or chastise you; Just trying to put things in perspective as it comes to my stupid and small mind. JR NMadasamy <nmadasamy (AT) nmadasamy (DOT) com> wrote: Ah!!!!!! now I remember. You are that 20 something young man who send an email to Bhasurananda natha once, let me quote your request "I read your article on Vamachara and became really interested in studying and practising. Can you guide me?" Now my dear young man, this shall be your first lesson, something you must understand if you want to know abt Vamachara practices that is : "Woman are manifestation of DEVI". If you find it hard to except this then this shows you are not for the path. Finding the path and walking the path is two totally different altogether. Let me share another set of conversation we have sometime back in the group. Wife as Devi [ 2005 ] Mahamuni Of course wife is Devi. All women are manifestation of Devi. Men are just too stupid to see it. Even men are the manifestation of Devi, though in a different way. But that is another subject. Max Dashu Of course wife is Devi. All women are manifestation of Devi. Candi Paath agrees: Vidhaah: samastaastava devi bhedaah: Striyah: samastaah: sakalaa jagatsu Problem is, some believe husband should be worshipped as a god by the faithful wife, but never the other way around. Their egos want to lord it over. , "NMadasamy" <nmadasamy wrote: > > , "Dennis" <mprgrandmaster@> > wrote: > > > > Jai Shri Mataji! > > What you say maybe true in some sense but I do not think it is so > generally. I mean, how can it be every young girl to be equal with > Durga , Parvati, Saraswati or Laksmi?Can they cure diseases?Can they > give en masse Kundalini Awakening?Can they teach Shri Nirmala Vidya? > Young girl maybe a manifestation of Shri Maha Devi but they are not > Maha Devi Herself in complete form and with complete Powers. > > Dionisis > \ > > > You are looking from different angle and Im citing from a shakta > tantric point of view. To US [ read to word US], all woman are > manifestation of DEVI herself. Maybe its that you never understood > this statement at all. Read the tantric text and you will understand > what im talking abt. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 17, 2006 Report Share Posted December 17, 2006 Dear JR, While it is not exactly what we call "kind words" the use of "stupid" to describe my actions I hold absolutely no hard feelings against you as forgiveness is a very great power.Now,in your email I find no true reasons why my questing is stupid, as you just say that these rites are your tradition and you sustain it. tradition is sometimes a good thing but that does in now way mean that everything is good just because it is part of a tradition.Surely, it is a very joyous thing to be that you keep on doing this ancient rituals and ,personally,I see them as very joyous expressions of the devotee's bhakti towards the Divine and am really interested in them. Still, the whole point is missing here. I in now way insult your rites but I( sent an email about whether or not Shri Mataji Nirmala Devi is or not an incarnation of Shri Adi Shakti and Nora replied to my email saying that every girl is a Kumari!Then , I replied to state that while every girl is a manifestation of the Devi, that does not mean Shri Mataji Nirmala Devi is not something special but She is just like any girl. Jai Shri Mataji! Dennis - Radhakrishnan J Sunday, December 17, 2006 2:42 PM Re: Re: Nirmala Devi? To Dennis Hi Dennis Kumari Puja, Suvasini Puja, Dampati Puja etc., are part of our routine tradition, especially during Navaratri or whenever we have Sri Vidya Puja etc. At that time, we consider the child, the married woman and/ or the couple as the respective deity. On Ganesh chaturthi day, we take a Ganesh idol made of clay and worship as Lord Ganesha himself. Try questioning us whether the clay lump of Ganesha will be able to write Mahabharata.How stupid of you to write and question what Nora described as a Navaratri Puja practice in a temple in Kualalampur instead of becoming happy that our culture is being preserved in a foreign country by our people even after centuries are gone by. With apologies; I do not mean to deride you or chastise you; Just trying to put things in perspective as it comes to my stupid and small mind. JR NMadasamy <nmadasamy (AT) nmadasamy (DOT) com> wrote: Ah!!!!!! now I remember. You are that 20 something young man who send an email to Bhasurananda natha once, let me quote your request "I read your article on Vamachara and became really interested in studying and practising. Can you guide me?" Now my dear young man, this shall be your first lesson, something you must understand if you want to know abt Vamachara practices that is : "Woman are manifestation of DEVI". If you find it hard to except this then this shows you are not for the path. Finding the path and walking the path is two totally different altogether. Let me share another set of conversation we have sometime back in the group. Wife as Devi [ 2005 ] Mahamuni Of course wife is Devi. All women are manifestation of Devi. Men are just too stupid to see it. Even men are the manifestation of Devi, though in a different way. But that is another subject. Max Dashu Of course wife is Devi. All women are manifestation of Devi. Candi Paath agrees: Vidhaah: samastaastava devi bhedaah: Striyah: samastaah: sakalaa jagatsu Problem is, some believe husband should be worshipped as a god by the faithful wife, but never the other way around. Their egos want to lord it over. , "NMadasamy" <nmadasamy wrote: > > , "Dennis" <mprgrandmaster@> > wrote: > > > > Jai Shri Mataji! > > What you say maybe true in some sense but I do not think it is so > generally. I mean, how can it be every young girl to be equal with > Durga , Parvati, Saraswati or Laksmi?Can they cure diseases?Can they > give en masse Kundalini Awakening?Can they teach Shri Nirmala Vidya? > Young girl maybe a manifestation of Shri Maha Devi but they are not > Maha Devi Herself in complete form and with complete Powers. > > Dionisis > \ > > > You are looking from different angle and Im citing from a shakta > tantric point of view. To US [ read to word US], all woman are > manifestation of DEVI herself. Maybe its that you never understood > this statement at all. Read the tantric text and you will understand > what im talking abt. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 17, 2006 Report Share Posted December 17, 2006 , "Dennis" <mprgrandmaster wrote: > > Dear JR, > While it is not exactly what we call "kind words" the use of "stupid" to describe my actions I hold absolutely no hard feelings against you as forgiveness is a very great power.Now,in your email I find no true reasons why my questing is stupid, as you just say that these rites are your tradition and you sustain it. tradition is sometimes a good thing but that does in now way mean that everything is good just because it is part of a tradition.Surely, it is a very joyous thing to be that you keep on doing this ancient rituals and ,personally,I see them as very joyous expressions of the devotee's bhakti towards the Divine and am really interested in them. > Still, the whole point is missing here. I in now way insult your rites but I( sent an email about whether or not Shri Mataji Nirmala Devi is or not an incarnation of Shri Adi Shakti and Nora replied to my email saying that every girl is a Kumari!Then , I replied to state that while every girl is a manifestation of the Devi, that does not mean Shri Mataji Nirmala Devi is not something special but She is just like any girl. Is it an insult for Shri Mataji Nirmala Devi devotee when somebody implied that she is just like any girl? Why is that So? Because by doing so you are what? lowering her status down? You see Dennis I think its you who is missing the point. I am not responding to you or question the so call godliness status of Shri Mataji Nirmala Devi. Ammachi devotee too like to belive Ammachi is a God to them. Heck! if you all wants to believe she is a God, go ahead. I have no problem with that. We believe our guru too is like god to us. Even my own guru always remind me : I am a nobody. Just an ordinary person. So whats the problem. I am responding to Parishant and if you read carefully my statement is a general statement stating the fact of our shakta tradition as how we see women and some of our practices. Because please remember you are in a shakta group and this is our basic philisophy : ALL women are the manifestation of DEVI. Lets go back to what Parishant wrote "She said she is Devi incarnation? Is that true?" For shakta we all accept that all women is the manifestation of DEVI but we the shakta ladies do not go around proclaiming ourselves as DEVI incarnation and demanding the men to worship us. If Shri Mataji Nirmala Devi or her devotee not happy with this statement, too bad. This is who and what we are. Also I think its just that maybe some are not use to see such practices. So see another person prostrating before another. It may be a sign of submission/ weakness. The whole issue here is that Kumari or the suvasini pooja is like any other pooja/ritual, they have their own purposes and effect. We are not talking about mass kundalini raising here and go around braging about it, but something much more. Will you be able to even understand it? In Nageshwari Temple here in Kuala Lumpur, during the Kumari Pooja, people just spontaneously prostrate before the kumari and get HEr blessings. No issues or hesitation. While back in my own hometown; Singapore, supposedly a cosmopolitan city when we do the durga sumangali pooja, people just stood and watch not knowing what to do. The whole idea of prostrating before and getting the blessings of the 9 kanyakumari and the 9 sumangali is strange to them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 17, 2006 Report Share Posted December 17, 2006 >Because please remember you are in a shakta group and this is our >basic philisophy : ALL women are the manifestation of DEVI. Which i agree with, but not all women have realized that identity. That is what makes a difference. Although i've often wondered what kind of experiences a kumari has as she assumes the sheath of Devi in ritual. As for prostration, no one should do it if they are not inclined. It can be done in a variety of bhavas, from self-abnegation to inward-turning union and connection with Bhu Devi. Max -- Max Dashu Suppressed Histories Archives http://www.suppressedhistories.net Real Women, Global Vision Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 18, 2006 Report Share Posted December 18, 2006 , Max Dashu <maxdashu wrote: Which i agree with, but not all women have realized that identity. That is what makes a difference. Like Gems you need to polish them, only then they will sparkle. > Although i've often wondered what kind of experiences a kumari has as she assumes the sheath of Devi in ritual. That is why its call experience. You need to personally experience it yourself to understand. Transformation should occur from within. Putting yellow robe or wearing white does not makes one tranformed. Something to share with all: G: The first thing is will just putting flowers on a statue or on a yantra and sprinkling water and offering food reach God? what is the Bhava? Intention and bhava must be right then it will all reach God otherwise its all a waste. ME: Becau you like doing it. Its like breathing, its just natural process G: Then it is just fun and games ME: but you did say, sadhana must be fun otherwise it is not sadhana you must enjoy doing it G: Fun but should have effect too so what I am going to tell you is the intentions in each action. For that one must understand the philosophy and the intention and the specific actions in detail so that the necessary physical effects that get transmitted to the psyche are learned carefully End of conversation > As for prostration, no one should do it if they are not inclined. Agreed to this. Its also depends on our cultural upbringing. From where im coming from, prostrating, touching the feet of our parents/guru or kissing the hand of our elders are nothing new. Its part of our Asian traditions. As the proverbs goes : be like the paddy field. As they becomes matured and ripe, they bow low. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 18, 2006 Report Share Posted December 18, 2006 >Putting yellow robe or wearing white does not makes one tranformed. True, though sometimes ritual with lots of intention and devotion can bring about amazing revelations and transmutations ... >part of our Asian traditions. As the proverbs goes : be like the >paddy field. As they becomes matured and ripe, they bow low. In Europe too there is a proverb, The heaviest shoot of wheat hangs its head the lowest. Max -- Max Dashu Art in Goddess Reverence http://www.maxdashu.net Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 18, 2006 Report Share Posted December 18, 2006 Dear members of this group, I really cannot understand whether all other's paths, (e.g. those revering Ammachi or other so called gurus) are highle respected while Shri Mataji is so much dishonoured and misunderstood.Maybe you should think about it as well. Now, about Shri Mataji being higher so lower or equal with any girl etc, I will say only this: When Shri Durga, or Shri Laksmi ,or Shri Radha walked on this Earth, were they just every girl or had they something different?If they were all just equal to girls, why did Durga had to incarnate to kill the Asuras and just did not let the girls do the job?I ask for forgiveness if this sounds stupid but I pray that She ,the Devi, be pleased with me and forgive me. Dennis - NMadasamy Sunday, December 17, 2006 6:57 PM Re: Nirmala Devi? To Dennis , "Dennis" <mprgrandmaster wrote: > > Dear JR, > While it is not exactly what we call "kind words" the use of "stupid" to describe my actions I hold absolutely no hard feelings against you as forgiveness is a very great power.Now,in your email I find no true reasons why my questing is stupid, as you just say that these rites are your tradition and you sustain it. tradition is sometimes a good thing but that does in now way mean that everything is good just because it is part of a tradition.Surely, it is a very joyous thing to be that you keep on doing this ancient rituals and ,personally,I see them as very joyous expressions of the devotee's bhakti towards the Divine and am really interested in them. > Still, the whole point is missing here. I in now way insult your rites but I( sent an email about whether or not Shri Mataji Nirmala Devi is or not an incarnation of Shri Adi Shakti and Nora replied to my email saying that every girl is a Kumari!Then , I replied to state that while every girl is a manifestation of the Devi, that does not mean Shri Mataji Nirmala Devi is not something special but She is just like any girl. Is it an insult for Shri Mataji Nirmala Devi devotee when somebody implied that she is just like any girl? Why is that So? Because by doing so you are what? lowering her status down? You see Dennis I think its you who is missing the point. I am not responding to you or question the so call godliness status of Shri Mataji Nirmala Devi. Ammachi devotee too like to belive Ammachi is a God to them. Heck! if you all wants to believe she is a God, go ahead. I have no problem with that. We believe our guru too is like god to us. Even my own guru always remind me : I am a nobody. Just an ordinary person. So whats the problem. I am responding to Parishant and if you read carefully my statement is a general statement stating the fact of our shakta tradition as how we see women and some of our practices. Because please remember you are in a shakta group and this is our basic philisophy : ALL women are the manifestation of DEVI. Lets go back to what Parishant wrote "She said she is Devi incarnation? Is that true?" For shakta we all accept that all women is the manifestation of DEVI but we the shakta ladies do not go around proclaiming ourselves as DEVI incarnation and demanding the men to worship us. If Shri Mataji Nirmala Devi or her devotee not happy with this statement, too bad. This is who and what we are. Also I think its just that maybe some are not use to see such practices. So see another person prostrating before another. It may be a sign of submission/ weakness. The whole issue here is that Kumari or the suvasini pooja is like any other pooja/ritual, they have their own purposes and effect. We are not talking about mass kundalini raising here and go around braging about it, but something much more. Will you be able to even understand it? In Nageshwari Temple here in Kuala Lumpur, during the Kumari Pooja, people just spontaneously prostrate before the kumari and get HEr blessings. No issues or hesitation. While back in my own hometown; Singapore, supposedly a cosmopolitan city when we do the durga sumangali pooja, people just stood and watch not knowing what to do. The whole idea of prostrating before and getting the blessings of the 9 kanyakumari and the 9 sumangali is strange to them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 19, 2006 Report Share Posted December 19, 2006 , "Dennis" <mprgrandmaster wrote: > > Dear members of this group, > I really cannot understand whether all other's paths, (e.g. those revering Ammachi or other so called gurus) are highle respected while Shri Mataji is so much dishonoured and misunderstood.Maybe you should think about it as well. I think the kind of reaction others are showing in the group are normal. Not everybody accept Nirmala Devi. The same goes for Ammachi too and many other gurus. This you must understand. If you do a search in google theres a lot more people who really don't like Nirmala Devi and even Ammachi. There is even a survival support group for ex Sahaja Yoga members who claims they are being mentally and psychologically abuse. Why this need for this in the first place? But we are not here to talk about this. They are just expressing their opinion. But since the topic of discussion is about Nirmala Devi, thus its abt her. And this is a public forum, please remember that. I dont think so I have dishonoured or misunderstood Nirmala Devi. I have no problem of her claims being Devi manifested. As I say from our shakta perspective all Women are manifestation of DEVI. Nirmala Devi went further by proclaiming herself as the Adi Parashakti. Well I have no problem with that too. If the others like yourself like to believe it so, then so it be. Its the same as somebody comes here proclaiming themselves as some manifestation or reincarnation of what such and such a person. Like that so called "priest" who proclaimed himself as LORD SHIVA. Eventually when the truth unfold, "HE" is just a spirit. Sounds like a desperate one. Time must be really hard for him to resort to such techniques. But again, I do not blame this "spirit". The situation warrant 'him' to do such, because he sees the opportunity. We human are so gullible. What lead to this state, because we are like the spirit, we are desperate too. You see eventually it depends on the people who responded to Nirmala Devi. If you are comfortable with it, go ahead. But there are many too who are doubtful and its just right for them to. But this does not mean they are showing disrespectful. > Now, about Shri Mataji being higher so lower or equal with any girl etc, I will say only this: When Shri Durga, or Shri Laksmi ,or Shri Radha walked on this Earth, were they just every girl or had they something different?If they were all just equal to girls, why did Durga had to incarnate to kill the Asuras and just did not let the girls do the job?I ask for forgiveness if this sounds stupid but I pray that She ,the Devi, be pleased with me and forgive me. You see this is the problem. You are seeing DURGA, LAKSMI, RADHA as a separate entity. And they are very human to you and their story is like some fairy tale story. But as I see it, Durga, Saraswati, Laksmi and Radha are all within us.. Why do we worship them in the first place? What is the purpose of Sadhana. Her story is not just some fairy tale story but its about the internal struggle we all have to go through. That is what DEVI MAHATMAYA is all about. Its no different with the Bhagavat Gita, are all about us. What is within us. That is what Durga sadhana is all about. To transcend to be the Durga herself. To merge and be ONE with HER. In the Sadhana of Durga both the goddess and the demons are perceived as being within oneself. The Durgic process allows us to see the shadow of the self, the pleasant and the unpleasant within ourself, goading us onward to continue strengthening the pleasant aspect in us till we shine, truly shine - like HER - and this process of strengthening is a continuous one until one is refined and amalgamated. Who is Durga.. or rather what is a DURGA? Bhavaninama Sahasrstutih names 047 said DURGA is "The one difficult of access…. The nature of DurgA is free one from peril … seated above all the powers " T.V Narayana Menon commentary "Durga is one who turns the mind away from its thirst for evil and establishes it in the pursuit of good". You see Dennis for me, I do have problem with people who go around proclaiming themselves to be the reincarnation of such and such. I call it Entrapment. The ego casting the net around itself. At one moment we talk about humility.. to accept others equally but later go around proclaiming ourself to be somebody special, a reincarnation of some high priest or of higher self. Isn't this a trap. If others like it so, find. I have no problem with that. To me this is what I am trying very hard to avoid. Because I personally believe most often evil takes hold of us when we are trap and couldn't find our way out. As I see it, that is what DURGA is all about. Showing me the way of how I can avoid getting my self trap in my own trapping. Its much easier to escape the trappings of another, but its much more difficult to escape the trappings of our own mind. How do u get out of it, or are you aware of the trappings? Are you able to remove it yourself? How much are you willing to let go, for letting go too is like slicing the infected slough. It will def causes pain. Do you have the courage to do it? That is why it is said Durga is difficult to access. To do that, its like trying to slice yourselves into pieces or looking at yourself in the movie, seeing yourself being decapitated and not feeling anything at all. How many of us can actually do that? I would suggest Dennis for you to read the book : Combating Inner Terrorism: Strategies of the Goddess from the Devi Mahatmyam See link to get to the book store : http://www.shaktisadhana.org/Newhomepage/Resource.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 19, 2006 Report Share Posted December 19, 2006 Jai Shri Mataji! Dear Nora, About the (dis)repsect towars towrds Shri Mataji:I have never read in this group an email expressing personal doupts/bad experiences/bad nrumours etc concerning "gurus" but I read a few about Shri Mataji,. So,I do not think the behaviour is the same as with the other "gurus". About my concepts of the Goddesses,I do not see them as a seperate entity but as Principles. I do not understand on what grounds you say I think of Devi Mahatmya and other similiar stories as fairy tales.This is defnately not true.I beleive the different deities are Froms ,Qualties, Powers,Principles ,Tatwas of the Divine Goddess. They are within each of us but NOT manifesting in all of us, in their full power . They do only in Gods. We can achieve this state,though, too and we have been made by the Devi to the image and model of the Deities. So, Shri Durga is the COMPLETE embodiment of a Divine Tatwa that exists in human beings in a lesser or greater proportion. Regards, Dennis - NMadasamy Tuesday, December 19, 2006 4:53 AM Re: Nirmala Devi? To Dennis , "Dennis" <mprgrandmaster wrote: > > Dear members of this group, > I really cannot understand whether all other's paths, (e.g. those revering Ammachi or other so called gurus) are highle respected while Shri Mataji is so much dishonoured and misunderstood.Maybe you should think about it as well. I think the kind of reaction others are showing in the group are normal. Not everybody accept Nirmala Devi. The same goes for Ammachi too and many other gurus. This you must understand. If you do a search in google theres a lot more people who really don't like Nirmala Devi and even Ammachi. There is even a survival support group for ex Sahaja Yoga members who claims they are being mentally and psychologically abuse. Why this need for this in the first place? But we are not here to talk about this. They are just expressing their opinion. But since the topic of discussion is about Nirmala Devi, thus its abt her. And this is a public forum, please remember that. I dont think so I have dishonoured or misunderstood Nirmala Devi. I have no problem of her claims being Devi manifested. As I say from our shakta perspective all Women are manifestation of DEVI. Nirmala Devi went further by proclaiming herself as the Adi Parashakti. Well I have no problem with that too. If the others like yourself like to believe it so, then so it be. Its the same as somebody comes here proclaiming themselves as some manifestation or reincarnation of what such and such a person. Like that so called "priest" who proclaimed himself as LORD SHIVA. Eventually when the truth unfold, "HE" is just a spirit. Sounds like a desperate one. Time must be really hard for him to resort to such techniques. But again, I do not blame this "spirit". The situation warrant 'him' to do such, because he sees the opportunity. We human are so gullible. What lead to this state, because we are like the spirit, we are desperate too. You see eventually it depends on the people who responded to Nirmala Devi. If you are comfortable with it, go ahead. But there are many too who are doubtful and its just right for them to. But this does not mean they are showing disrespectful. > Now, about Shri Mataji being higher so lower or equal with any girl etc, I will say only this: When Shri Durga, or Shri Laksmi ,or Shri Radha walked on this Earth, were they just every girl or had they something different?If they were all just equal to girls, why did Durga had to incarnate to kill the Asuras and just did not let the girls do the job?I ask for forgiveness if this sounds stupid but I pray that She ,the Devi, be pleased with me and forgive me. You see this is the problem. You are seeing DURGA, LAKSMI, RADHA as a separate entity. And they are very human to you and their story is like some fairy tale story. But as I see it, Durga, Saraswati, Laksmi and Radha are all within us.. Why do we worship them in the first place? What is the purpose of Sadhana. Her story is not just some fairy tale story but its about the internal struggle we all have to go through. That is what DEVI MAHATMAYA is all about. Its no different with the Bhagavat Gita, are all about us. What is within us. That is what Durga sadhana is all about. To transcend to be the Durga herself. To merge and be ONE with HER. In the Sadhana of Durga both the goddess and the demons are perceived as being within oneself. The Durgic process allows us to see the shadow of the self, the pleasant and the unpleasant within ourself, goading us onward to continue strengthening the pleasant aspect in us till we shine, truly shine - like HER - and this process of strengthening is a continuous one until one is refined and amalgamated. Who is Durga.. or rather what is a DURGA? Bhavaninama Sahasrstutih names 047 said DURGA is "The one difficult of access.. The nature of DurgA is free one from peril . seated above all the powers " T.V Narayana Menon commentary "Durga is one who turns the mind away from its thirst for evil and establishes it in the pursuit of good". You see Dennis for me, I do have problem with people who go around proclaiming themselves to be the reincarnation of such and such. I call it Entrapment. The ego casting the net around itself. At one moment we talk about humility.. to accept others equally but later go around proclaiming ourself to be somebody special, a reincarnation of some high priest or of higher self. Isn't this a trap. If others like it so, find. I have no problem with that. To me this is what I am trying very hard to avoid. Because I personally believe most often evil takes hold of us when we are trap and couldn't find our way out. As I see it, that is what DURGA is all about. Showing me the way of how I can avoid getting my self trap in my own trapping. Its much easier to escape the trappings of another, but its much more difficult to escape the trappings of our own mind. How do u get out of it, or are you aware of the trappings? Are you able to remove it yourself? How much are you willing to let go, for letting go too is like slicing the infected slough. It will def causes pain. Do you have the courage to do it? That is why it is said Durga is difficult to access. To do that, its like trying to slice yourselves into pieces or looking at yourself in the movie, seeing yourself being decapitated and not feeling anything at all. How many of us can actually do that? I would suggest Dennis for you to read the book : Combating Inner Terrorism: Strategies of the Goddess from the Devi Mahatmyam See link to get to the book store : http://www.shaktisadhana.org/Newhomepage/Resource.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 20, 2006 Report Share Posted December 20, 2006 , "Dennis" <mprgrandmaster wrote: > > Jai Shri Mataji! > Dear Nora, > About the (dis)repsect towars towrds Shri Mataji:I have never read in this group an email expressing personal doupts/bad experiences/bad nrumours etc concerning "gurus" but I read a few about Shri Mataji,. So,I do not think the behaviour is the same as with the other "gurus". How long have you been in the group Dennis. From what I understand its just recently your email to Bhasurananda Natha. Look at our post : we just hit the 25,000 mark. Do you know what that means. Well you are indeed an intelligent young man. Count for me how many message are there now? If you have the time browse our messages one by one and read [hopefully too that you do not get lost] and you will agree with me, there are a lot of remarks against several personality: including Shri Ramakrishna, Gurumayi, Siddha Org etc. I personally have lead an 'attack'[so to say] against The Ammachi Org. Not her personally because as ive said, I have nothing against her, its the people who managing the Org. But there are a lot of people just dont like Nirmala Devi for reason only they know. ,> About my concepts of the Goddesses,I do not see them as a seperate entity but as Principles. I do not understand on what grounds you say I think of Devi Mahatmya and other similiar stories as fairy tales.This is defnately not true.I beleive the different deities are Froms ,Qualties, Powers,Principles ,Tatwas of the Divine Goddess. They are within each of us but NOT manifesting in all of us, in their full power . They do only in Gods. We can achieve this state,though, too and we have been made by the Devi to the image and model of the Deities. So, Shri Durga is the COMPLETE embodiment of a Divine Tatwa that exists in human beings in a lesser or greater proportion. You see Dennis that is what I am trying to point to you. In your earlier post you say "Now, about Shri Mataji being higher so lower or equal with any girl etc, I will say only this: When Shri Durga, or Shri Laksmi ,or Shri Radha walked on this Earth, were they just every girl or had they something different? If they were all just equal to girls, why did Durga had to incarnate to kill the Asuras and just did not let the girls do the job? Now you said again "They are within each of us but NOT manifesting in all of us, in their full power" To the contrary, I hold this permises that all the DEVIs are within each and every one of us, and they manifest in all of us in their full power if we know how to do it. We can have the same power as displayed by DURGA. That is what our sadhana is all abt. To transcend to be the DEVI herself. What is an Image? Its just a representation of the divine. We used images to focus our mind. Eventually as we advance image means nothing at all. Brahman is formless and genderless. Now again Im asking, if you sincerly believe you are here to learn, then you need to open up your mind to our ideas otherwise I think its just a waste of time, trying to explain to you when you are not even willing to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 20, 2006 Report Share Posted December 20, 2006 I say that :"About my concepts of the Goddesses,I do not see them as a seperate entity but as Principles. I do not understand on what grounds you say I think of Devi Mahatmya and other similiar stories as fairy tales.This is defnately not true.I beleive the different deities are Froms ,Qualties, Powers,Principles ,Tatwas of the Divine Goddess. They are within each of us but NOT manifesting in all of us, in their full power . They do only in Gods. We can achieve this state,though, too and we have been made by the Devi to the image and model of the Deities". Please tell me the difference. About me being a Sahaja Yogi, well, Sahaja Yoga is just one of the aspects of the Goddess, and while I am a Sahaja Yoggi, I am dedicated not the Goddess Adi Shakti Shri MAtaji Nirmala Devi . So,I worhship the Shakti, and I do not see why I should not be in the group. Secondly,in Sahaja Yoga I have come to see that in spiritual systems created by Divine Incarnation, sages,Rishis, there are seeds of truth which may have been misinterpreted by humans and/or lost through the centuries. These seeds of Truth is what I am interested in the Vamachi system as well as in this group! If you have any more questions, ask Dennis >Now you said again "They are within each of us but NOT manifesting >in all of us, in their full power" To the contrary, I hold this >permises that all the DEVIs are within each and every one of us, and >they manifest in all of us in their full power if we know how to do >it. We can have the same power as displayed by DURGA. That is what >our sadhana is all abt. To transcend to be the DEVI herself. What is >an Image? Its just a representation of the divine. We used images to >focus our mind. Eventually as we advance image means nothing at all. >Brahman is formless and genderless. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 29, 2006 Report Share Posted December 29, 2006 On 12/19/06, NMadasamy <nmadasamy (AT) nmadasamy (DOT) com> wrote: > > Ah! and so we have it all. He is from Sahaja Yoga. > I hope the above line is not used in any derogatory matter. Because if it is, I would have to say that folks have no clue what Sahaja Yoga is..? Its power/usage/application is second to none. While it is correct that Tantra encompasses a lot of thing, including pranayama, but Sahaja Yoga is the one that was taught by Lord Krishna to Arjuna in Gita. Hence I hope that no one is under-estimating it. Off course this doesnt means that what ever else Dennis is saying is incorrect or correct. I am just talking about Sahaj Yoga only. Har Har Mahadev -- Thanks Dp [The force is feminine in nature] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 29, 2006 Report Share Posted December 29, 2006 the beauty of true Guru is such that He or She does not need to proclaim it for it is so already , neither Ammachi or Sri Karunamay does not proclaim so . Mothers reveal treasures in secret bit by bit . It is true blessing to find humble Guru . joanna Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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