Iskcon Rehash Movement dies ki jai!, Good Riddance to a Bad Thing

[bhaktatraveler]

 

I would say that of all the urges, the urge of lust or sex, is the strongest. I read somewhere that Srila Prabhupada said that lust is the cause of all problems. It seems to be very true. Perhaps you can throw more light on that.

 

Vaidhi bhakti is the solution to lust. Lust is way beyond just sex, that's only a gross messure. Fame, aderation, I, me, mine and distinction are the eliments of the last covering of the spirit soul. It was lust or the subtle eliments that ensnared us after our fall from Krsna's service, It was the cause of this fall. Don't know much more, you need a brahman to explain better, I'm definately second class.

 

Hare Krsna, Caturbahu das Bhakti-raja

[Guest guest]

Hare Krishna prabhu ... you are very modest.

 

So are you saying that sex is just one of the problems in lust? I thought that was the biggest problem especially in the West where people are so attached to it.

 

 

Vaidhi bhakti is the solution to lust. Lust is way beyond just sex, that's only a gross messure. Fame, aderation, I, me, mine and distinction are the eliments of the last covering of the spirit soul. It was lust or the subtle eliments that ensnared us after our fall from Krsna's service, It was the cause of this fall. Don't know much more, you need a brahman to explain better, I'm definately second class.

 

Hare Krsna, Caturbahu das Bhakti-raja

[Guest guest]

See BG 3.39-41 all about Lust.

[bhaktatraveler]

 

See BG 3.39-41 all about Lust.

 

But I couldn't resist posting these 2 verses after reading them..........

 

TEXT 39

TEXT

 

avritam jnanam etena

jnanino nitya-vairina

kama-rupena kaunteya

dushpurenanalena ca

 

avritam—covered; jnanam—pure consciousness; etena—by this; jnaninah—of the knower; nitya-vairina—eternal enemy; kama-rupena—in the form of lust; kaunteya—O son of Kunti; dushpurena—never to be satisfied; analena—by the fire; ca—also.

 

TRANSLATION

Thus, a man’s pure consciousness is covered by his eternal enemy in the form of lust, which is never satisfied and which burns like fire.

 

PURPORT

It is said in the Manu-smriti that lust cannot be satisfied by any amount of sense enjoyment, just as fire is never extinguished by a constant supply of fuel. In the material world, the center of all activities is sex, and thus this material world is called maithunya-agara, or the shackles of sex life. In the ordinary prison house, criminals are kept within bars; similarly, the criminals who are disobedient to the laws of the Lord are shackled by sex life. Advancement of material civilization on the basis of sense gratification means increasing the duration of the material existence of a living entity. Therefore, this lust is the symbol of ignorance by which the living entity is kept within the material world. While one enjoys sense gratification, it may be that there is some feeling of happiness, but actually that so-called feeling of happiness is the ultimate enemy of the sense enjoyer.

 

Bg 3.40

TEXT 40

 

TEXT

indriyani mano buddhir

asyadhishthanam ucyate

etair vimohayaty esha

jnanam avritya dehinam

 

indriyani—the senses; manah—the mind; buddhih—the intelligence; asya—of the lust; adhishthanam—sitting place; ucyate—called; etaih—by all these; vimohayati—bewilders; eshah—of this; jnanam—knowledge; avritya—covering; dehinam—the embodied.

 

TRANSLATION

The senses, the mind and the intelligence are the sitting places of this lust, which veils the real knowledge of the living entity and bewilders him.

 

PURPORT

The enemy has captured different strategic positions in the body of the conditioned soul, and therefore Lord Krishna is giving hints of those places, so that one who wants to conquer the enemy may know where he can be found. Mind is the center of all the activities of the senses, and thus the mind is the reservoir of all ideas of sense gratification; and, as a result, the mind and the senses become the repositories of lust. Next, the intelligence department becomes the capital of such lustful propensities. Intelligence is the immediate next-door neighbor of the spirit soul. Lusty intelligence influences the spirit soul to acquire the false ego and identify itself with matter, and thus with the mind and senses. The spirit soul becomes addicted to enjoying the material senses and mistakes this as true happiness. This false identification of the spirit soul is very nicely explained in the Srimad-Bhagavatam:

 

yasyatma-buddhih kunape tri-dhatuke

sva-dhih kalatradishu bhauma idyadhih

yat-tirtha-buddhih salite na karhicij

janeshv abhijneshu sa eva gokharah.

 

"A human being who identifies this body made of three elements with his self, who considers the by-products of the body to be his kinsmen, who considers the land of birth as worshipable, and who goes to the place of pilgrimage simply to take a bath rather than meet men of transcendental knowledge there, is to be considered as an ass or a cow."

 

 

Hare Krsna, Caturbahu das Bhakti Raja

[Guest guest]

Yes indeed, the topic is IRM but allow me this one more time to go off-topic.

 

If one in the devotional path is said to be protected by the Lord, how come we have had so many instances of devotees (some of them full time devotees) falling down because of lust and sex attachment?

 

But I couldn't resist posting these 2 verses after reading them..........

 

TEXT 39

TEXT

 

avritam jnanam etena

jnanino nitya-vairina

kama-rupena kaunteya

dushpurenanalena ca

 

avritam—covered; jnanam—pure consciousness; etena—by this; jnaninah—of the knower; nitya-vairina—eternal enemy; kama-rupena—in the form of lust; kaunteya—O son of Kunti; dushpurena—never to be satisfied; analena—by the fire; ca—also.

 

TRANSLATION

Thus, a man’s pure consciousness is covered by his eternal enemy in the form of lust, which is never satisfied and which burns like fire.

 

PURPORT

It is said in the Manu-smriti that lust cannot be satisfied by any amount of sense enjoyment, just as fire is never extinguished by a constant supply of fuel. In the material world, the center of all activities is sex, and thus this material world is called maithunya-agara, or the shackles of sex life. In the ordinary prison house, criminals are kept within bars; similarly, the criminals who are disobedient to the laws of the Lord are shackled by sex life. Advancement of material civilization on the basis of sense gratification means increasing the duration of the material existence of a living entity. Therefore, this lust is the symbol of ignorance by which the living entity is kept within the material world. While one enjoys sense gratification, it may be that there is some feeling of happiness, but actually that so-called feeling of happiness is the ultimate enemy of the sense enjoyer.

 

Bg 3.40

TEXT 40

 

TEXT

indriyani mano buddhir

asyadhishthanam ucyate

etair vimohayaty esha

jnanam avritya dehinam

 

indriyani—the senses; manah—the mind; buddhih—the intelligence; asya—of the lust; adhishthanam—sitting place; ucyate—called; etaih—by all these; vimohayati—bewilders; eshah—of this; jnanam—knowledge; avritya—covering; dehinam—the embodied.

 

TRANSLATION

The senses, the mind and the intelligence are the sitting places of this lust, which veils the real knowledge of the living entity and bewilders him.

 

PURPORT

The enemy has captured different strategic positions in the body of the conditioned soul, and therefore Lord Krishna is giving hints of those places, so that one who wants to conquer the enemy may know where he can be found. Mind is the center of all the activities of the senses, and thus the mind is the reservoir of all ideas of sense gratification; and, as a result, the mind and the senses become the repositories of lust. Next, the intelligence department becomes the capital of such lustful propensities. Intelligence is the immediate next-door neighbor of the spirit soul. Lusty intelligence influences the spirit soul to acquire the false ego and identify itself with matter, and thus with the mind and senses. The spirit soul becomes addicted to enjoying the material senses and mistakes this as true happiness. This false identification of the spirit soul is very nicely explained in the Srimad-Bhagavatam:

 

yasyatma-buddhih kunape tri-dhatuke

sva-dhih kalatradishu bhauma idyadhih

yat-tirtha-buddhih salite na karhicij

janeshv abhijneshu sa eva gokharah.

 

"A human being who identifies this body made of three elements with his self, who considers the by-products of the body to be his kinsmen, who considers the land of birth as worshipable, and who goes to the place of pilgrimage simply to take a bath rather than meet men of transcendental knowledge there, is to be considered as an ass or a cow."

 

 

Hare Krsna, Caturbahu das Bhakti Raja

[bhaktatraveler]

 

Yes indeed, the topic is IRM but allow me this one more time to go off-topic.

 

If one in the devotional path is said to be protected by the Lord, how come we have had so many instances of devotees (some of them full time devotees) falling down because of lust and sex attachment?

 

Hare Krsna Guest------

 

Your question assumes that the devotee is offenceless in stature and cent per cent surrendered to Krsna. 'As they surrender unto Me' is the opperative consideration. Because he might be engaged in as much mental concentration on sex life as the service at hand. Mostly we use the lable of 'devotee' and it is not that the person 'is' a devotee by the true definition. We are mostly mixed and conditioned. Not pure, hence prone to fall over and over.

 

A pure(100%) devotee does not fall and is under full protection. We are not of that status yet. We need all the help we can get.

 

SB. 8.2.30 purport

 

 

In the fighting between the elephant and the crocodile, the difference was that although the elephant was extremely powerful, he was in a foreign place, in the water. During one thousand years of fighting, he could not get any food, and under the circumstances his bodily strength diminished, and because his bodily strength diminished, his mind also became weak and his senses less powerful. The crocodile, however, being an animal of the water, had no difficulties. He was getting food and was therefore getting mental strength and sensual encouragement. Thus while the elephant became reduced in strength, the crocodile became more and more powerful. Now, from this we may take the lesson that in our fight with maya we should not be in a position in which our strength, enthusiasm and senses will be unable to fight vigorously. Our Krishna consciousness movement has actually declared war against the illusory energy, in which all the living entities are rotting in a false understanding of civilization. The soldiers in this Krishna consciousness movement must always possess physical strength, enthusiasm and sensual power. To keep themselves fit, they must therefore place themselves in a normal condition of life. What constitutes a normal condition will not be the same for everyone, and therefore there are divisions of varnasrama—brahmana, kshatriya, vaisya, sudra, brahmacarya, grihastha, vanaprastha and sannyasa. Especially in this age, Kali-yuga, it is advised that no one take sannyasa.

 

asvamedham gavalambham

sannyasam pala-paitrikam

devarena sutotpattim

kalau panca vivarjayet

[Cc. Adi 17.164]

(Brahma-vaivarta Purana)

 

From this we can understand that in this age the sannyasa-asrama is forbidden because people are not strong. Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu showed us an example in taking sannyasa at the age of twenty-four years, but even Sarvabhauma Bhattacarya advised Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu to be extremely careful because He had taken sannyasa at an early age. For preaching we give young boys sannyasa, but actually it is being experienced that they are not fit for sannyasa. There is no harm, however, if one thinks that he is unfit for sannyasa; if he is very much agitated sexually, he should go to the asrama where sex is allowed, namely the grihastha-asrama. That one has been found to be very weak in one place does not mean that he should stop fighting the crocodile of maya. One should take shelter of the lotus feet of Krishna, as we shall see Gajendra do, and at the same time one can be a grihastha if he is satisfied with sexual indulgence. There is no need to give up the fight. Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu therefore recommended, sthane sthitah sruti-gatam tanu-van-manobhih. One may stay in whichever asrama is suitable for him; it is not essential that one take sannyasa. If one is sexually agitated, he can enter the grihastha-asrama. But one must continue fighting. For one who is not in a transcendental position, to take sannyasa artificially is not a very great credit. If sannyasa is not suitable, one may enter the grihastha-asrama and fight maya with great strength. But one should not give up the fighting and go away.

 

 

Hare Krsna, CBR

[Guest guest]

Hare Krishna prabhu,

 

Great answer and completley convincing! Thank you.

 

I changed the username back to the old one as the one I used to pose the question wasn't very appropriate.

 

Thanks for the illuminating answer.

 

 

Hare Krsna Guest------

 

Your question assumes that the devotee is offenceless in stature and cent per cent surrendered to Krsna. 'As they surrender unto Me' is the opperative consideration. Because he might be engaged in as much mental concentration on sex life as the service at hand. Mostly we use the lable of 'devotee' and it is not that the person 'is' a devotee by the true definition. We are mostly mixed and conditioned. Not pure, hence prone to fall over and over.

 

A pure(100%) devotee does not fall and is under full protection. We are not of that status yet. We need all the help we can get.

 

SB. 8.2.30 purport

 

 

In the fighting between the elephant and the crocodile, the difference was that although the elephant was extremely powerful, he was in a foreign place, in the water. During one thousand years of fighting, he could not get any food, and under the circumstances his bodily strength diminished, and because his bodily strength diminished, his mind also became weak and his senses less powerful. The crocodile, however, being an animal of the water, had no difficulties. He was getting food and was therefore getting mental strength and sensual encouragement. Thus while the elephant became reduced in strength, the crocodile became more and more powerful. Now, from this we may take the lesson that in our fight with maya we should not be in a position in which our strength, enthusiasm and senses will be unable to fight vigorously. Our Krishna consciousness movement has actually declared war against the illusory energy, in which all the living entities are rotting in a false understanding of civilization. The soldiers in this Krishna consciousness movement must always possess physical strength, enthusiasm and sensual power. To keep themselves fit, they must therefore place themselves in a normal condition of life. What constitutes a normal condition will not be the same for everyone, and therefore there are divisions of varnasrama—brahmana, kshatriya, vaisya, sudra, brahmacarya, grihastha, vanaprastha and sannyasa. Especially in this age, Kali-yuga, it is advised that no one take sannyasa.

 

asvamedham gavalambham

sannyasam pala-paitrikam

devarena sutotpattim

kalau panca vivarjayet

[Cc. Adi 17.164]

(Brahma-vaivarta Purana)

 

From this we can understand that in this age the sannyasa-asrama is forbidden because people are not strong. Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu showed us an example in taking sannyasa at the age of twenty-four years, but even Sarvabhauma Bhattacarya advised Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu to be extremely careful because He had taken sannyasa at an early age. For preaching we give young boys sannyasa, but actually it is being experienced that they are not fit for sannyasa. There is no harm, however, if one thinks that he is unfit for sannyasa; if he is very much agitated sexually, he should go to the asrama where sex is allowed, namely the grihastha-asrama. That one has been found to be very weak in one place does not mean that he should stop fighting the crocodile of maya. One should take shelter of the lotus feet of Krishna, as we shall see Gajendra do, and at the same time one can be a grihastha if he is satisfied with sexual indulgence. There is no need to give up the fight. Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu therefore recommended, sthane sthitah sruti-gatam tanu-van-manobhih. One may stay in whichever asrama is suitable for him; it is not essential that one take sannyasa. If one is sexually agitated, he can enter the grihastha-asrama. But one must continue fighting. For one who is not in a transcendental position, to take sannyasa artificially is not a very great credit. If sannyasa is not suitable, one may enter the grihastha-asrama and fight maya with great strength. But one should not give up the fighting and go away.

 

 

Hare Krsna, CBR

[bolo_hare_krsna]

wow...talk about wolf in sheeps clothing....this is the pinnacle of the saying...these guys are real demons

[Guest guest]

Which guys ... the ritviks?

 

 

wow...talk about wolf in sheeps clothing....this is the pinnacle of the saying...these guys are real demons

[Guest guest]

 

It should be also clear to any sober person that the present global system of taxing people is so much kali-yuga that to open a vedic farm is even impossible when someone is so materially fortunate to be the proprietor of his own farm with sufficient feedlots. In order for a farmer to make an income for properly maintaining his family and pay his bills he has to first of all successfully sell his products. And exactly here is the crux, if he doesnt produce foodstuffs on his farm which are specified by the mleccha global governments his farm runs straight into bankruptcy. Next he has to borrow on mortgage in order to survive and finally he will give his indebted farm to the bank for a song. This is reality, everything else an illusion.

 

As this thread is already way off-topic please allow me to comment on this quote.

 

Actually small, independent farming can be done in this day and age. The proof? Lots of people all over the world do it. You just have to be smart, frugal, and work hard without expecting to get rich.

 

It may not be easy, it may not be for most devotees, but it can be done.

[bhaktachris]

 

As this thread is already way off-topic please allow me to comment on this quote.

 

Actually small, independent farming can be done in this day and age. The proof? Lots of people all over the world do it. You just have to be smart, frugal, and work hard without expecting to get rich.

 

It may not be easy, it may not be for most devotees, but it can be done.

 

Please also do not forget that there must be a little faith in such work.

 

The following is from our position papers The Light of the Bhagavat http://protectacow.typepad.com/

 

Illustration 9

A picturesque scene of green paddy fields enlivens the heart of the poor agriculturist, but it brings gloom to the face of the capitalist who lives by exploiting the poor farmers.

 

Lessons from the Picture

With good rains, the farmer's business in agriculture flourishes. Agriculture is the noblest profession. It makes society happy, wealthy, healthy, honest, and spiritually advanced for a better life after death. The Vaisya community, or the mercantile class of men, take to this profession. In Bhagavad-gita the Vaisyas are described as the natural agriculturalists, the protectors of cows, and the general traders. When Lord Sri Krsna incarnated Himself at Vrndavana ,He took pleasure in becoming a beloved son of such a vaisya family. Nanda Maharaja was a big protector, of cows, and Lord Sri Krishna, as the most beloved son of Nanda Maharaja, used to tend His father's animals in the neighboring forest. By His personal example Lord Krishna wanted to teach us the value of protecting cows. Nanda Maharaja is said to have possessed nine hundred thousand cows, and at the time of Lord Sri Krsna (about five thousand years ago) the tract of land known as Vrndavana was flooded with milk and butter. Therefore God's gifted professions for mankind are agriculture and cow protection.

 

 

 

I do not think this is off topic, because the Iskcon Rehash Movement wants to say that their "position papers" are a letter written and used to take over the movement by 11 zoned outs.

The topic is that such a rehash movement is dead, so to show that Prabhupada's Movement can never die, we must point out the system for Life. God's Gifted Profession, Cow Protection and Agriculture.